A few days ago I told Jim that we needed to cut down on Tootsie’s food because she was getting pudgy. Easy and obvious, right? Dog getting fat, feed less food. Less obvious, but equally important, is that if we cut back too much on her food she might not get the level of nutrients, vitamins and minerals that she needs for optimal health. As a couch potato dog, she needs not just less food than my active, working sheepdogs, but different food altogether. That isn’t earth shattering news to most of us either, but what IS new—refreshingly so—is a readable, fact-filled book that explains exactly what “different” should mean. That important piece of information comes from Linda Case’s book, Dog Food Logic: Making Smart Decisions for Your Dog in an Age of Too Many Choices, published by Dogwise. I haven’t even finished the book, but I am already a huge fan. One caveat: This is NOT a book that tells you how to home cook for your dog. It indeed has a thoughtful section on feeding raw versus cooked, but the book’s strength is in helping those of us who still use at least some commercial foods, no matter how niche-friendly or expensive, instead of being the sole provider of food for our dogs. (Even if you do cook for your dogs, I suspect you’ll learn a lot by reading this book.)
Linda Case is canine nutritionist, dog trainer and science writer, with a warm and breezy writing style that is chock full of information without being as dry as an old bag of kibble. Full confession: When I first picked this book up I wasn’t thrilled with it. Too much chatting about things that didn’t feel all that relevant to me. Where was the editor, anyway? As I was impatiently thumbing through the book I realized that what I wanted from it was simple. “What should I feed my dog, Linda? Please answer this question in two or three paragraphs.” Ha! Imagine my amusement when one of the blurbs on the back of the book begins by saying “Don’t read this book if you want someone to tell you what to feed your dog.”
Okay, take a breath. I looked at the Table of Contents and found (A ha!) Appendix 5—Choosing Smart: A Dog Food Choice Flow Chart. It’s worth the price of the book by itself, because it tells you what questions you need to ask and answer before deciding on a food. For example, not just “how active” is your dog, but how frequent is the activity and how intense? What ingredients do you want to include? Exclude? Why? What is the scientific evidence that supports your attitude about any particular ingredient?
After reading through the Flow Chart I was hooked. I looked again at the Table of Contents and selected an especially relevant chapter: “Canine Athlete or Couch Potato?” I have two of the former and one of the latter, and the sheepdogs are working especially hard right now, while Tootsie, the 9 year-old Cavalier, is doing less and less. I should insert a confession here: I’ve always been someone whose eyes began to glaze as soon as I read something like ME requirement = 95 x (kg to 0.75th power) = kcal ME/day. I can’t explain that, because I thought algebra was a great game and calculus was next to godliness, but for some reason the math related to nutrition has always left me cold. But along came Linda (cue the white horse) and within a few minutes she had me running downstairs to check how many calories per cup is in my dog’s kibble. (I am not going to bore you with exactly what my dogs eat, but I will say it is a combination of a high protein, high fat, fish-based kibble, commercial canned food, cooked organic vegetables, and selected additions or substitutions of eggs, meat, etc.)
It turns out that the kibble I feed my dogs has 417 kcal/cup, which is a good caloric load for dogs who work relative hard (they often work sheep twice a day, and although the sessions are short, it is very, very hard work.) Tootsie, on the other hand, could be doing well on food that has only 2/3 of the calories per cup, which means I could feed her more food and ensure that she was getting the level of other ingredients that she needed. But, of course, the decision of what food is best for her shouldn’t be based on “active” or “not-active” or “complete and balanced,” or just about anything else on the package we’ve all learned to ignore on the front of the package. (Linda lists some great, meaningless phrases, like “Protein-focused nutrition!” What does that mean?) What is most important, related to activity levels, is the amount of calories per cup, and percentage of fat and protein. She includes a chart (oooh, I love the charts!) that list 12 brands of food marketed for “active” dogs. Look at the range of percentage of ingredients: The Kcal/cup ranges from 382 to 475, the protein content from 26 to 40% and the fat content from 12—eeps! too low!—to 25%). For those of you with working dogs, Linda cites a study done by Shay Hill on working sheepdogs, and found that a diet high in protein and fat but low in digestible carbohydrate was best for them. Note, however, that the “working dog” I got to know best in New Zealand, where the study was done, ran behind our four-wheeler for about 4 miles and THEN went to work herding sheep. These dogs were awesomely fit and redefined what “working dog” means to me forever after.)
The next chapter I bounced to “What’s So Special About a Dog’s Nutritional Needs,” where we are reminded to pay no attention to the word “no fillers!” in advertising. It means nothing.), then the chapter titled “Age Matters.”(Please don’t feed a large-breed puppy regular “maintenance” adult food in order to prevent structural problems later on in life. Food made specifically for large-breed puppies contains fewer calories/cup and reduced calcium, all modifications that have good, solid science behind them.)
I haven’t finished the book yet, although I now admit to having to force myself away from the book to feed the dogs (oh the irony) and write this blog. I’ve done a complete 180 from “argh, this book needs to be shortened” to “can I please just stop the world so that I can finish reading this book?” I will admit that a bit of editing might still be in order, especially in the beginning. (I found myself wanting to edit the blurbs down by half.) But I am now a huge fan of this book. Ms. Case has waded through the beliefs, prejudices and passions of dog lovers, along with the best and worst of dog food company research and marketing, with an objective but benevolent eye. We all owe her a debt of thanks, along with Dogwise for publishing it. Now, can I go back to reading it? I can’t wait to read “Pet Food Marketing (Where Science Goes to Die)”.
If you’re interested in other pieces I’ve written on food and diet, go to the Reading Room on my website and dig in. Meanwhile, have you read Dog Food Logic yet? What did you think? Another question: Why do you think what we feed our dogs is such an emotional issue for some people? (Linda has an answer, but I’m curious about your response.)
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Two and a half inches of rain this morning. That is hard to report to those of you in the drought-stressed western U.S. (other countries? Australia?), but it was welcome here. We had a month or so without rain, and things were getting really dry. We might have needed the rain, but it’s been so hot and humid that it’s been damp outside all week. This weekend it was sprinkling and Jim suggested that I stop gardening and come inside and I said “What’s the difference? It feels equally wet out here whether it’s raining or not raining.” Our downstairs bathroom is a collage of wet and muddy clothing; it seems I changed clothes three times a day this weekend, and took an endless amount of showers. The Border Collies and I work early morning or just before dark, and either way, it’s still feels like a sauna.
The farm kept us busy this weekend with gardening, farming (mowing the pasture, cleaning out water tanks), moving busted up cement to make a new wall behind the house, training sheep dogs (Willie on longer outruns, Maggie learning to flank off balance) and food, food, food. Our CSA is providing us with a bounty of vegetables, so much so that sometimes I look in the frig and groan. Last night the only groaning was over a tomato pie. It was yummy, and just as important, it used up 3 whole tomatoes. Whoo hooo! (This time of year I judge recipes by how much corn/tomato/onion/zucchini they use. One that uses at least 3 of those ingredients is a blue ribbon winner.) We also tried, for the 4th time, to kill the two ground wasp nests that are most likely to get us stung. (I’m on sting #2, and it was a doozy. Looks like it might be time for an epi-pen.) We tried 3 doses of super soapy water (lots of detergent + hose stuck into the hole at night) and one dose of commercial wasp killer (hate using it, but there are times one has to bite the bullet). Every morning the wasps come streaming out as if we’d given them magic wasp food. Now there is also a new nest in the pasture. Yesterday Maggie must have stumbled over it while working the sheep and suddenly they began biting at her flanks. I ran over to her and saw that several wasps were working themselves down into her fur. I finally got them out, (and I don’t think she got stung) but they chased us for 30 yards or so. It’s one thing to be stung by them (usually only if you get close to their nest, but that is unavoidable in some cases), but it’s another to watch them attack your dog. Game on Yellow Jackets, game on.
One last thing, from the zoologist in me: Please don’t call them ground bees. Bees are very different than wasps, and only sting you if they have little choice. Most bees die if they sting you, while wasps can sting you repeatedly and are much, much more aggressive. I love bees, worked with them in graduate school, and feel the need to defend them constantly, because everyone keeps calling Yellow Jacket wasps “bees.” Poor things. Okay, thanks, I feel better now.
Here’s the last of the tomato pie: I thought I could get several meals out of it, but this is all that was left from last night. Please no one analyze the calories per cup versus the amount of exercise I got today. (4 walks up the long, steep hill and 4 sessions working dogs–but I did not run behind a four-wheeler for four miles first. Just so you know.)
Kathleen Bullard says
Are you familiar with the term, “orthorexia nervosa”? Coined by Steven Bratman, MD, it is a “fixation on righteous eating.” Hmm… this couldn’t apply to our feelings about what we feed our dogs could it?
Coincident with getting our first dog, I have been enrolled in an online health coaching and nutrition program so naturally i tried to learn the latest thoughts on feeding dogs. I found the debates as intense for canine nutrition as that of human nutrition, from paleo to vegan to raw! I believe strongly in eating organic for ourselves, our pets, and the health of the planet. Beyond that, variety is key, and each individual must find what works best for them or their pet, based on age. activity level, and background. I believe that the rise in food allergies in both humans and canines in due to the increasing monocultures in our food supply, especially grains.
Why are we so emotional about food? We need nourishment, and that is both food and love. At our best when we feed our families, including the four-leggeds, I believe we are trying to demonstrate our love through the food we serve with the goal of optimal health. However, since the question, “What should we eat?” for both ourselves and our dogs has no clear-cut answer, we get frustrated and emotional. It hits to heart of our very being.
I haven’t read Linda’s book yet, but can’t wait to get it based upon your comments. I loved Pukka’s Promise, also purchased upon your recommendation.
Mary Brandstetter says
Have you tried the boiling water/sugar method to rid yourself of the wasps? You boil water and add sugar, put it in a pie plate and set it outside. Go back in and boil more water, add sugar and replace the pie plate outside with the fresh hot sugar water. You’ll find a pile of dead wasps in the first pie plate. Repeat until the wasps are gone.
LisaW says
With more than 17.6 million food insecure households in the U.S. and 870 million people worldwide, my initial response to a book on canine nutrition was a little bristly. That said, I am cognisant of what and how much I feed my dogs because I have the resources to do so. For us, a grain-free, freeze-dried mix of vegetables, fruits, meat, and nutrients has been great for their bad joints, coat, and maintaining a healthy weight. Just add water, another bonus. I also give them a tablespoon of yogurt and other tidbits mixed in their food in addition to countless supplements.
But, each day when I’m fixing their meals, I do think about how lucky we are to have such a plethora of food choices, a healthy diet, and special foods and supplements. For me, it’s a tough one to reconcile sometimes.
Beverly Ann Hebert says
Tricia, I absolutely love your blog, including the lovely photos, but if you persist in posting pictures of these mouth-watering dishes, at least be kind enough to share your recipes! 🙂
Marjorie says
It’s amazing to me how complex the feeding issue has become when it comes to dogs. I have two 8 yr old Cavaliers, they don’t work sheep, but they do get one to one & half hrs of exercise (Cavalier style walking) a day. We had a hard winder last year and we have not been able to get off the 2lbs they gained over the winter. I home cook as one of them has a very sensitive digestion system and I keep it very simple and use supplements. I do use grains such as oat, barley, quinoa and rice and white fish (haddock, chicken, turkey and extra lean beef). I also throw in some veggies as well. It can be challenging with small dogs in that they don’t eat much in quanity so cutting back can be difficult. In regards to our emotions around feeding I belive we equate food as love. I wonder if when we have challenging dogs if we don’t use food more to make up for the challenges they face (I’m NOT just referring to positive training using food).
I want to know if anyone else experiences digestive upsets in their dogs this time of year? I have had problems for the past 5-6yrs (almost to the very day!) with vomiting and diarrhea, and it can last for the entire fall.
widogmom says
I think eating is emotional for many of us and we project that on our dogs. I have to be extremely careful not to inflict the same “food in place of play” reward system that my parents (who were 45 and 50 when I was born, respectively) used (I was #6 and, quite frankly, #s 1-5 wore them out). My dogs’ mealtimes and snack times are highly ritualized and structured (a habit I got into when I had Dobermans, who are so very prone to bloat) , and I do try to keep it healthy and watch the calories. I have a small and a “smedium,” so watching portion sizes and kcals is critical. That doesn’t mean they don’t get the occasional pizza bones, but carrots and green beans are far more frequent treats.
Marjorie: I would look for a late-season allergy, such as ragweed. Sometimes allergies can manifest digestively as well as on the skin. Benadryl can help with nausea as well as the usual itching reactions (I’ve used it for a dog’s motion sickness). That being said, the idea of winter coming makes me want to vomit, too, so I can’t say I blame them.
Lara Elizabeth says
I’ve been wanting to read this book – thank you for the recommendation!
And oh, can you send over some of that scrumptious-looking tomato pie?
Jenn says
For your wasps (which I find to be one of the only creatures on earth I have no problem at all in killing with no hesitation whatsoever), you may want to consider gasoline down the hole and a lit match. Watch the area to contain the fire, but it will take care of the whole nest. Subterranean nests can be huge and have many chambers, so sprays don’t reach the whole nest. Wasps are very dangerous and life-threatening to humans and animals – we just had a human death from a wasp attack in our area this summer, please do be careful!
Tonya & Dexter says
Hello Patricia. Long time fan here. I love this post about food (something that really interests me) & thought you might like a set of videos from my veterinarian food therapist friend (we’re both Cavalier Mom’s too). Dr. Judy Morgan has a whole series on food, what to look for, food properties according to Chinese Medicine….you get the idea. The series is here-
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLW8CYbT7MVORb7HHmc4LxDBpWhtZkuyrx
We are also working on a cookbook together as we speak! It’s pretty cool stuff & I’ve seen a huge difference over the last year feeding my Cavalier, Dexter.
Thanks for being such an inspiration. ~Tonya & Dexter
Dr. M says
Thank you so much for reading this book and sharing here. It is on my wishlist on Amazon, but haven’t gotten around to it yet. As a veterinarian who is a little obsessed with nutrition, I was ecstatic when this book was released. There is so much misinformation out there and so MUCH information that it can be overwhelming for people. Here is my top ten things I wish people knew about pet nutrition: http://mmendingwall.blogspot.com/2014/02/10-things-i-want-my-clients-to-know.html
I also made a tomato pie. I don’t think I can post a picture here, but here is the recipe. It was delicious!
http://www.bhg.com/recipe/cherry-tomato-pie/
Trisha says
First, and most importantly, here’s the link for the tomato pie! http://allrecipes.com/recipe/summer-tomato-pie. (There’s a link in the blog itself, but is a bit hard to see.) I read the comments and put the mayo on the pie crust and also dusted the tomatoes with flour after they’d drained. I didn’t have any cheddar cheese but used what I had, some bland farmer’s cheese I’d used in enchiladas last week and some kick-ass Parmesean I bought in a moment of weakness. They made a truly great combo.
I agree with so many of you that food = love, and that discussions about it must trigger some hyper-primal limbic alert system. Still, I find it amazing (and a bit discouraging that some people become so aggressive over food. Someone on my FB page said they had been physically threatened when they said that all kibble is not evil (a words used, in all seriousness, by another FB commenter.)
Thanks so much for the links, to great websites on food and nutrition, not to mention another tomato pie recipe! Right now I gotta go, am starving for lunch!
Betsy Calkins BS CPDT-KA says
Thanks, as always, for your thoughtful, funny, well-edited (!) review. (Editors are very under appreciated, I think. At least that’s true according to my sister, the editor)
It is so helpful to have some excellent guidance as to where to spend my reading time. Your blog is always at the top of the list!
Aliesha says
I have to laugh at your comment about the bees vs yellow jackets. I feel the same way, and I try to teach my kids the difference. That book sounds like a very good read, I look forward to the chance to read it. I worked in the dog food industry for a couple of years and I saw all the crazy hype and lack of science that went on behind the scenes. I came away very wary of most dog food companies. I am a big believer in making sure that your dog gets the proper nutrition, so I don’t think I could ever make my dog’s own food, but I am sure it is better than the processed ones for a lot of reasons. Maybe one day I can find a happy medium. I did find a couple of dog foods that I felt I could trust, reasonably. Your tomato pie looks yummy, I too am looking for ways to use up massive amounts of them! Good luck!
Milissa says
Thank you for the thoughtful and honest review. I’m even more intrigued by the book now! I appreciate the heads up about the editing issues as it probably saved me from my own impatience! I’m also wondering if some of the writer’s intent was to work at defusing the emotion surrounding the topic with her own subtle use of emotion? Anyway, I look forward to the book! I wonder if the author would be a good suggestion for a speaker at next year’s SPARCS?
Yes, hyper-primal limbic alert system! That would make sense! I think there are books about humans and their emotional problems with food. I wonder if they would give insights into the problem of humans providing for other animals, but selfishly I’m more interested in my own animals. :-/
My sis-in-law recently shared this recipe for Caprese salad, that you might like! http://thepioneerwoman.com/cooking/2011/06/caprese-salad/
Jackie D says
Just ordered the book…
One of my dogs has digestive symptoms from allergies (most likely dust mite allergy or food storage mite allergy judging by the blood test results) yet she has no other more typical allergic symptoms. So it’s certainly something to consider.
Kathleen – I like the term ‘orthorexia nervosa’ -I am sure some owners suffer from it! I do wonder whether the rise in dog allergies could be due to improved diagnosis and testing though. In humans I like the ‘too hygenic’ hypothesis, but I can’t see how that would apply to dogs.
It really annoys me when owners get evangelical about some particular diet or other. I am a firm believer that no one diet will suit all dogs – this is backed up by the study that shows that some dogs have the gene for digesting starch and some don’t. One of mine gets ill if he eats raw. The other one as mentioned above is allergic to quite a few foods – but not necessarily ones you might expect. She is not allergic to corn for example, or beef. You have to be open to different ideas for each dog.
And yes, we are very lucky if we are in a position to worry about the optimum nutrition for our dogs.
EmilySHS says
What I see with many of my clients who struggle with keeping their dogs at a healthy weight is a whole lot of guilt: using food as a substitute for taking the dog out for walks, play time, training, or just spending more time with them. Often these folks are couch potatoes themselves. They know (or feel) that they should walk the dog or give the dog more quality time; things like schedule constraints, poor owner health or dog behavior issues (like reactivity) make it difficult for them to get the dog out. The attack of the guilts results in many more cookies than the dog really needs.
With Toy breed dogs, I see another syndrome: people who express their love and nurturing through food hit a wall: the tiny dog can’t eat as much food as the owner wants to express affection. So the tiny dog is quickly full and starts turning up her nose at the offerings. The owner panics and offers something better (like people food.) Before long, the dog learns that if she snubs the first offering, the owner will pull out something better… and we’re off to the “picky eater” races. Amusingly, these picky little guys who will only eat (whatever weird thing the owner hits on) take plain kibble from me just fine…
Liz T says
Trish-thanks for the recommendation. I have one somewhat finicky dog (White GSD/yellow lab mix) and one with mild pancreatitis after getting into the garbage (Newfie), so I’ve been paying attention to food and food quality lately.
As for the garden, I completely agree. Though this recipe only has one of the required veggies, corn, it is astoundingly good, and don’t forget the jalapenos. I put in about a teaspoon (from the can of diced jalapenos I keep around the house) and it deepens the flavor without making it hot. 4 ears of corn (stripped, of course) is what you need for this. And I bet you could add sliced tomatoes and make it even better. http://www.fivehearthome.com/2013/11/18/creamy-cheesy-corn-casserole/
If someone can tell me how to kill my cucumbers, I’d be much obliged. I’m up to 12 quarts of pickles. I just don’t think I’ll eat my way through them this year! 🙂
Chris Lorents says
Wasps:
Our county mosquito abatement program controls yellow jackets with diatomaceous earth. A cup or so poured into the nest entry points. Wasps bring it into the nest as they pass through it. Dries out the nest in a couple of days. I imagine it works best when the weather is dry. Best to apply it before dawn when it is coolest and wasps are not active. We are lucky enough to just call the program and they will handle it for us. ; )
Beth says
Here’s a funny joke on bees vs wasps. Warning: mild profanity.
http://www.funnyphoto.co/pic/777
Margaret McLaughlin says
My vet regularly remarks that I have the only dogs in the practice who are not overweight–hilarious when you look at their human, who is, well, plus-sized shall we say. I’ve thought for a long time now that dogs reflect their owners’ fantasies: those fit young things who would secretly like to sit on the couch & eat potato chips while watching TV have fat dogs, & I have the canine equivalent of an Olympic athlete….Food for thought. Or go figure. Or something.
I’ll read the book ASAP. I’m very interested in the large-breed puppy issue, as the guide-dog school I puppy raise for has us switch to an adult maintenance diet by 5 mo (Labs, goldens, GSDs), & I have done the same for my 2 Flat-Coats. Not an orthopedic problem in a cart-load (barring Lia’s osteosarcoma), so I want to hear the argument for doing it the other way.
Glad to have a fellow crusader in the “They’re NOT BEES, they’re YELLOW JACKETS!!! crusade. I would recommend a professional exterminator–they are licensed to use stuff that will actually get rid of them. In 2010 I mowed over a nest & was stung more than 40 times. It made me pretty sick, & I decided that the only thing worse than dying of yellow jacket stings would be dying when I could have prevented it, so I saw an allergist, got tested, & got an Epi-Pen. Sometimes the pros are worth the money.
Diane says
My dog EATS – and I love it (emotionally). It makes me feel good just to hear his eating sounds. I know other people whose dogs could care less about eating….and it truly bothers these people. When you serve food – to dogs or people – you want to feel good about it, that is if you care for them. And you are providing the BEST for them with the resources you have…so please at least appreciate it and hopefully enjoy!! So raw (ugh – doesn’t make me feel good) or cooked or plain kibble or a mix of all- we convince ourselves we are doing what is best – even if we may not be looking at it with nutritional facts. I have no idea why this might be the case so I guess I better read all the blog answers for clues! I going to go eat first.
eldri says
—yellow jackets.. when I was living in the woods, and the wasps bothered me in the house .
I put cat-kibble next to the nest, (which they loved, and took below)- the wasps did not search far during the ‘feeding time’, so I had peace.
Within a week *something* out of the woods, smelled the kibble, dug up the nest during the night, ate kibble And wasps. I suspect a skunk or raccoon, but it Might have even been a black bear.
It worked for me several times-
–
Russell Hartstein says
Good book. I enjoyed it very much although it did get off to a slow start as you mentioned and agree with your observations about the beginning of the book being a bit longer than needed. I enjoyed the ““Pet Food Marketing (Where Science Goes to Die)” part. Very funny! And sadly true.
em says
This topic always fascinates me, and I’m now very excited about the prospect of reading Ms. Case’s book! Many people (including some I know) seem to me to be absolutely bonkers about their dogs’ diets. I think it’s a combination of factors- food=love, dogs (unlike children) are less likely to be picky and thus it’s possible to have a LOT of control over what they eat, but I think one of the factors that hasn’t been mentioned is that for years now pet food companies and vets have emphasized the importance of ‘balanced and complete’ diets, and actively (I would argue) discouraged people from trying to create these diets themselves rather than relying on commercial products. There’s probably some very good reasoning there- old fashioned table-scrap fed dogs probably did suffer from nutritional deficiencies and/0r overconsumption of undesirable things like sugar and salt, and it can be devilishly difficult to get people to do the work when there’s work involved in anything- premade diets probably just seemed safer.
I confess that I myself never really had a problem with this trend until six years ago, when I ended up with a dog with multiple dietary intolerances which made feeding commercial food problematic and came smacking up against a surprising degree of difficulty in finding actual, reliable information about what exactly canine dietary needs ARE and how to create a diet to meet them.
The absurdity of the situation struck me- dogs are scavengers, they’ve lived with humans for tens of thousands of years (and yes, yes, I am VERY aware that I would likely find the life expectancy and standard of health of a neolithic dog sorely lacking by modern standards). I’d consider the diet of most ancient humans somewhat lacking as well, I suspect, but I am lucky enough to have access to good nutritional resources, and consider myself qualified to formulate a nutritious diet for myself and other humans. I understand that a dog’s nutritional needs differ from human ones, but how in the world can their needs be so complex as to make it ‘just too difficult’ to figure out how to home cook (or raw feed) a dog?
Yet many of the ‘rebels’ who were pushing back against reliance on commercial pet food by advocating for raw or home-cooked were distressingly reliant on anecdata, spurious arguments, and emotional blackmail.
It seemed very like the breastfeeding wars to me- once upon a time, doctors advised women to feed formula, and a woman who chose to breastfeed was making the ‘wrong’ and ‘risky’ choice. Later, research indicated that breastfeeding had benefits, so mothers who chose to feed formula were now the ones doing it ‘wrong’, and sometimes facing a shocking amount of judgy nastiness from people. For some reason, the care and feeding of other people’s kids and dogs are topics that many, many people feel that they have the right (even a responsibility) to weigh in on.
I’m so, so glad to hear that more and more books like this one are becoming available- I welcome any good science-based information on feeding dogs, ESPECIALLY information presented in an objective, ‘benevolent’ way. There just needs to be more information, and more even-handed presentation of information, out there. So yay!
I personally feed mostly raw, which works for my dogs, both active and in excellent health at nearly eight (Otis) and eleven (Sandy). But I’m the first to admit that it isn’t a choice that is right for everyone, and I have no problem with commercial dog food in principle. Otis can’t eat it (he might be able to do grain free, but it costs a MINT- I find it cheaper to feed him ‘human’ food- but that doesn’t mean that all dogs will find kibble indigestible, any more than one child’s cow’s milk allergy means that cow’s milk is bad for all children.
em says
Also, on the wasps (not bees!!!!), a few years back we had a really bad time with highly aggressive yellow jackets in the fall. All over the place, not just specific nest sites. But I went from having never, ever been stung (luck, good observational skills, lack of fear, and a habitually soft footstep, I imagine) to being stung at least six times in the space of three weeks. Most of those were in defense of the dogs. Sandy has a minute before they can get through her fur- I just have to act fast to keep them off her head, but big, black Otis is like a red flag to them, and his coat is so thin as to be utterly useless. It was never a whole nest, just two or three at a time bombing the dogs who hadn’t disturbed them in any way that I could see. On the silver lining side, until I was faced with the need to protect the dogs, I suppose I would never have suspected what courage and self-sacrifice I was capable of 😉
Anyhow, the next year, no problem, and we’ve not had a single sting since-knock wood. Is this a phenomenon you’ve ever heard of- generalized wasp aggressiveness in a particular season(perhaps linked to weather or resource availability?)- or was it just all an enormous and painful conincidence?
Trish Kirby says
When I saw this weeks topic and a picture of that tomato pie next to it I thought “damn those are lucky dogs” not realizing until reading further that the pie was Your dinner.
Well my poor dogs started out with puppy chow and now eat dog chow! They do get eggs on the weekends and I sometimes cook chicken for them. They love sweet potatoes and apples and I do give them veggies from our dinner but don’t make them especially for them. I also put canned food and water in with the dog chow. Its never just dry.
When I think of Patricia Mcconnell I think – My first source of info. For everything dog and her fruit Pies. Haha the wonderful pictures and descriptions of the pies have stuck with me.
Beth says
I puzzle over the food wars myself. It almost seems a matter of religious faith to some people that what wild wolves eat MUST be what is best for dogs, which is turning evolutionary principle a bit on its head— animals survive on what they have access to. Deer eat tree bark in the winter. This does not mean bark is an ideal food source for deer. It simply means they eat what they can find.
One comment I find especially fascinating is “I feed expensive food xx, but I understand you feed y and that’s ok if that’s the best food you can afford” as if price in and of itself is a determining factor on quality or appropriateness. The comment itself is a bit of an insult dressed up as a compliment. And if I could afford to eat expensive filet mignon every day myself, that doesn’t mean it would be the healthiest choice for me.
Another argument that puzzles me is that by-products are bad. They can be, and surely some of them are (and part of the concern is undoubtedly not knowing what you are getting). But the truth is, the parts of the animal we eat and discard are at least partly a matter of custom, and “by-products” from a US slaughter house would be “human quality meat” in another country. For instance, people DO eat tripe, and intestines in the form of sausage casing, but not nearly as many people eat tripe as eat beef, so I’m guessing an awful lot of it ends up in dog food.
I am fairly agnostic when it comes to food, and if I saw feeding studies that showed what I was feeding was not appropriate, I would switch. One of mine only gets 2/3 of a cup of 300+ cal kibble a day as it is (and she is 28 pounds, not tiny), poor thing, and so I certainly don’t plan on switching to a premium working dog kibble and cutting her back even further.
Trisha says
Beth’s comments above are so important, especially re “by-products.” Last weekend I made “Hog Jowl and Collard Greens” in the slow cooker, and it was great. When we were ordering our pork I had to call the butcher and explain that, along with the ribs, roasts, etc, that we had purchased from the 1/4 hog we bought from a local farm, I wanted the jowls, cheeks and hocks. He was somewhat nonplussed, because no one had ever asked for those parts before. They would be considered “by-products,” just like the tripe that Beth mentions. Linda Case makes the important point that “meal,” like chicken meal or lamb meal, has more protein in it per unit than “chicken” or “lamb” because by the time it’s cooked the meal is concentrated (and no, is not from beaks or hooves.) I recently read an article in Audubon that said if dog owners wanted to be green then they SHOULD be feeding “meal” and “by-products” because otherwise those resources are thrown away and are valuable resources that should not be wasted. Food, as it were, for thought.
Trisha says
To em re wasps: I don’t know the answer to your question, but I’ll ask my entomologist friend about it. I can say that last year we had no problems with wasps, although we did have several paper wasp nests attached to the house and one ground nest in another flower bed. But they do seem much worse this year. Perhaps because it was so cool and wet early on, they are all in 4th gear to try to get ready for winter?
Still on the wasp topic: someone suggested that we use gasoline and a match (here or on FB). Eeeeps, one nest is right by the house, so I think I’ll pass on that. To Margaret, who was stung 40 times… I can’t imagine. No, I can, and it makes me want to moan just thinking about it. I think it might have killed me. (A woman died not too far from here with 25 stings.)
To eldri: I think I’ll pass on the cat kibble too. I’d rather pass on attracting raccoons or black bear right up beside the house. We have enough trouble with raccoons as it is, and no black bear yet but they are moving into the area. Someone suggested diatomaceous earth; we’ll try that next and if no luck will absolutely call a professional.
Charlene Curry says
I know this sounds a bit strange but a friend was swimming at my house and got stung by a wasp. She said she had read about putting a penny on the spot and leaving it for a few hours. She has always had a very strong reaction and was thrilled that the next day the only sign of the sting was a small red circle the size of the penny. Perhaps it is the copper that neutralizes the venom.
Just a suggestion…..
Laceyh says
On tripe – I gave canned tripe a try as a topper for kibble once, years ago. The dogs ate it fine, and I can easily believe that it was good for them, but I couldn’t face warming refrigerated leftovers for the second meal.
Bridget Brei says
I am sad to hear you feed your pups kibble. Processed food day in and day out. You live on a farm and my guess is you don’t eat cereal at every meal. What is wrong with real unprocessed food? Kibble is sprayed with nutrients after most of the nutrition has been cooked out of it.
Yuck.
Chris from Boise says
More wasp info – yellowjackets are much more aggressive than paper wasps (the kind that make the small domed paper nests with a few dozen cells). I’ve recently been watching paper wasps hunt my garden for cabbage loopers and other caterpillars. You can tell them from yellowjackets (who are also caterpillar hunters) because they dangle their legs when they fly, while yellowjackets tuck theirs up more aerodynamically, and paper wasps are more delicately built – and more amiable. Today I found their nest, quite by accident, on the fence behind the bunch of grapes I was about to pick. One stung my giant monster hand, and as I promptly and somewhat calmly retreated, they escorted me to the garden gate with no further stings. Had it been a yellowjacket nest, as Trisha says, many wasps would have been after me with multiple stings.
Frances says
I dipped a toe into the Great Dog Food debate when I realised that Sophy hated kibble as soon as it was the least bit stale – and even the small bags were stale before we were half way through them. I could have tried freezing the open bag, I suppose, but instead I looked into alternatives, and looking closely into ingredients. When I worked out the amount of actual meat in the foods I was buying, versus the cereals, vegetables and water, and that filet mignon was positively cheap by comparison, I began researching recipes in earnest! As others have said, I baulk at the general advice that canine nutrition is just too difficult for owners to understand, and that we should just buy an expertly formulated food, or add an expensive vitamin mix. I found http://www.dogaware.com the most useful source of comparatively unbiased information. I get pleasure from feeding my animals food I have prepared myself, and they seem to enjoy it. An added advantage is that I can quickly spot if something does not agree with them, and adjust accordingly, although my dogs are so used to a varied diet that they can eat most things without problem (anyone who has had a dog raised on one kibble, and one kibble only, and run out far from the nearest town on a holiday weekend will know what a problem it can be, and recognise the advantages of them being happy to eat scrambled eggs, or canned sardines…).
Trisha says
To Bridget, who is sad that I feed my dogs kibble: You are right that I don’t eat cereal at every meal. However, I was eating a bowl of it (organic ancient grains) when I read your comment. It is really good for me, as long as I eat lots of other things during the rest of the day. That is why I feed myself and my dogs a varied diet, and why I mentioned that my dogs get organic vegetables, meat, eggs, etc etc added to the kibble, which is made from fish and fruit and vegetables. If you want to be sad, be sad that I still drink too much diet cola because I am a weak and bad person.
Kim F. says
Diet cola! Oh Trisha, I’ve lost all respect for you.
HFR says
I worry about feeding my dogs well as much as anyone who is obsessed with their dogs’ well-being. But I do have to stop and remember that the dogs I had growing up (purebreds and non) always ate whatever was on sale at the supermarket. That included Gravy Train (it makes its own gravy!) and KenLRation “meat patties” (that I do believe was made from red play-doh). In those days the rule was NEVER feed your dog human food for fear they will immediately refuse to eat dog food ever again. My dogs all lived to 13 and 14 years old. And they got vaccines every darned year!
I know that is not a scientific study but I know many others who tell the same story as I do about their childhood dogs. I guess it’s like hearing stories about people who smoke and drink to excess and manage to live to a ripe old age. It does keep me grounded tho if I’m about to get too worried about what I feed my dogs.
As to why people get so worked up over this? Because they have empty lives that thrive on making trouble? Yes, that must be it. 🙂
Donna B. says
Thanks for the great book recommendation! I immediately downloaded her book and read it cover to cover. Agree with all your comments!
I have gone through everything, but most often have fed some proportion of kibble and some home-prepared, which has varied from pressure-cooked whole chickens, plus oatmeal, cornbread, canned fish, veggies, etc. then some years back went almost totally BARF or home prepared, very little kibble. Bear in mind I am usually feeding about nine Irish Wolfhounds. At one point I was getting 180 pounds of chicken necks and back delivered every week! And that did not begin to feed them completely, I also fed beef hearts, pork neck bones, canned fish, and tripe…lots of frozen tripe.
Guess what I feed now….Purina Dog Chow plus lots of canned dog food, canned sardines and mackerel, eggs, some organically raised sheep, goat, and pork from a neighbor, plus lots of fish oil capsules. The reason for feeding a kibble that is what many would consider low quality….the people I co-own hounds with feed this (and their hounds look fabulous), it is readily available anywhere when you travel with your dogs, it has not been subject to recalls, and yes is economical. I feel I add so much that the kibble which has been proven over the years to be adequate for dogs may be OK. My hounds seem to do pretty well no matter what I feed them, though their teeth and stools definitely benefit from inclusion of some raw bones in their diet.
I so agree that dogs can thrive on a wide variety of diets. I must admit, I have been challenged to seek a higher protein and higher fat kibble, that I can afford and that is safe to feed, along with the other stuff- maybe 50/50.
Kat says
LOL oh yes, the great dog food debates. Sigh. I am a heathen to all camps. My mostly raw fed dogs eat some kibble thus proving I’m not a real Raw feeder and rather than simply giving my canine companions a perfectly balance nutritionally appropriate commercial food I “play god” and try to feed them raw meat thus betraying the cause of hygienic living and thinking that I’m better than everyone else. My dogs thrive on what they eat and while it is primarily raw it is also varied including cooked meats, vegetables, fruits, grains, kibble, etc. Ranger had a snickerdoodle cookie today although it’s rare that I indulge him with that much sugar. Finna just had about a third of my toasted cheese. Neither are as svelte as they would be if they were top conditioned athletes but neither are they really overweight. Both have ribs and backbones that are easily palpable.
My favorite story about feeding my dogs is the day they opened the new dog park with a dog fair. Ranger and I went and a rep from a very reputable dog food manufacturer was there giving samples. She asked if Ranger could have a sample of one of their canned varieties and receiving permission put three or four tablespoons full on a plate. Ranger sniffed it and rejected it. That’s OK say the Rep not all dogs like that flavor but this one, she says opening a different can, is our best seller. Ranger again sniffed and rejected it. The Rep inquired what Ranger ate and when I told her responded, “I don’t blame him, if I ate that well I wouldn’t touch this stuff either.” She did eventually find a dried beef patty that Ranger consented to consume but I was highly amused by her comment. I’ll spare their blushes and not mention the exact brand. Suffice it to say it’s one of the better regarded brands and many people I know swear by it.
As for wasps we’ve had good success with boiling water. Three or four tea kettles of boiling water poured into the nest has been enough to solve the problem. I think it’s the combination of cooking and drowning. Good luck with your wasp issue.
Margaret McLaughlin says
Diet cola? How are the mighty fallen….Think you may have hijacked your own thread.
Yes, the yellow jacket mass attack felt like the Cruciatus Curse. Kept wondering (in between bouts of vomiting, while looking at self covered with blotchy hives) if I needed to go to the ER, or even call 911, but my throat never swelled, so I toughed it out at home, & only called the pharmacist to see how much of the dogs’ Benydryl it was safe to take on top of my regular allergy meds.
And full disclosure–I feed only kibble, & even use it for training treats; at each meal I put the next one in a glass jar, & then whatever’s left goes in the dish at the next meal, lather, rinse, repeat. This is what the guide dog school wants us to do with our puppies, & it has been so successful I do it with Nina too. I’m sure that would not be impossible with other ways of feeding, but it would certainly be more difficult; this way I always have a primary reinforcer available as quickly as I can get it out of my pocket, & for a puppy the less time between secondary & primary the better. I suppose it’s a question of priorities–for me, training trumps almost everything.
Frances says
Well, in the interests of full disclosure, I have to admit that in addition to their healthy diet of meat, fish, eggs and vegetables, my dogs expect a share of my crisps or other snacks if I open a bag, adore crispy breadsticks, consider sponge cake almost better than chicken, and wait politely up to the point that knives and forks stop clattering on plates, when they suggest that the sooner leftovers are removed to the kitchen, the sooner something good will find its way into their bowls… Not that they are spoiled, of course!
And diet tonic with a good slug of gin beats Coke every time!
Ben says
I think people are emotional about food because we recognize health is one of the most important things in life, and food is a huge contributor to health. Essentially, I think it is emotional because it is important.
I personally think raw/BARF is optimal. I try not to debate with people over what is preferred because usually no one changes their minds. It is hard to resist when you have counterarguments to their arguments, but I don’t think it accomplishes much.
I understand heated arguments. I don’t understand threatening physical harm, that is absurd. Don’t let the few crazies get you down folks!
Martina says
Ah, that tomato pie looks like my kind of dish. And as the dogs haven’t yet discovered their taste for tomatoes we still have lots of them.
While your posts are always a valuable source of information, no post has ever had better timing. I’ve been struggling with the concept of nutrition for some time and finding the proper balance is currently my no 1 priority (priority 2 being training the dogs that it’s not acceptable to help themselves to fruit and vegetables from our garden).
My Labrador girl is currently in her x-th phase of diarrhea for this year. Before she got the ‘bug’ one or two times a year and there was always talk of other dogs being sick too. This spring and summer though none of my two other dogs were affected so I’m inclined to think there is another problem which might be related to food.
The boys (Golden and Cavalier) trained as rescue&search dog for the past 6 months and while I never had doubts about their basic food, I was always wondering if their training treats didn’t have too many calories or protein.
Before the current one we had food (recommend the then dog-trainer) that had way too much protein and not only turned the lab into a muscle-monster but also into a dog that could never relax.
I often get the impression that talking with other dog owners about food is a subject as tricky as covering religion and politics. And I always end up with the feeling that those convinced of a certain method/philosophy act like disciples and are not always honest. There’s currently a major barf-hype in my region and I’ve grown tired of explaining that the F stands for food and not Fleisch (german for meat) to those insisting that dogs are carnivores and not omnivores.
Mine get mainly kibble but also canned food, as well as raw or cooked vegetables and whatever fruit they find in the garden. Personally I don’t eat that much meat, so the dogs only get raw meat when my partner buys and feeds it. In my opinion it’s the balance that counts.
We’ll see what I will or need to change after reading that book, which I bought immediately after reading your post 🙂
Anne Tully says
I’ve been feeding raw for about 15 years now and had extremely good luck with it. One of the vets I deal with is adamantly against it, saying she says many cases of bacterial infections from it. I personally have never had problems that way, my dogs are healthy, a good weight and live long lives. Can you give your thoughts on this?
jan murphy says
I’m so sorry to post something about such an old convo, but I’ve been trying to find the tomato pie recipe and the pic at the end of this post is the closest I’ve been able to get. I’d have sworn that you posted the recipe?