Pia Silvani’s, Director of Behavior and Training at St. Hubert’s Animal Welfare Center in New Jersey, gave a talk at APDT that focused on play between adult dogs, and it was a fantastic presentation. The best part of the talk was her videos of dogs playing–both appropriately and inappropriately. My absolute favorite was a video of two Tervurens meeting, greeting and eventually playing together beautifully. It was a like watching two strangers meet each other, and end up dancing as if they were on Dancing with the Stars. Several things stood out in the video that are, I think, important aspects of healthy dog play.
First of all, the dogs were able to meet each other one on one, without other dogs around. So often it seems that dogs get introduced into a ‘pack’ and are overwhelmed by 3 or 5 or 7 other dogs all trying to get access to them at the same time.
Secondly, the dogs weren’t forced into anything; they were able to approach and withdraw often, which is another way that dogs can avoid too much pressure during a greeting. This reminds me of the Ph.D. research of Dr. Anneke Lisberg from the University of Wisconsin, who did some of the first real research ever done on scent marking in domestic dogs (familiarity breeds contempt in science too!). She found that dogs entering a dog park were most likely to be the ones urinating after a greeting ritual with the resident dogs, and that the “newbee” often ended a close encounter by trotting a few feet away and urinating. Dr. Lisberg speculates that the entering dogs can avoid tension during greetings by walking away from close contact w/ other dogs and urinating a few feet away. It would be as if the dogs were providing information about themselves in their urine, on the ground, to avoid all those noses stuck up under their tails. Interesting, isn’t it? This makes me think about indoor day care facilities, where dogs are inhibited from urinating… I wonder if that causes problems? It does seem, on reflection, that all dogs should be able to meet and greet outside where they can use urine to communicate.
Thirdly, the Terv’s in Pia’s talk began to play with lots of play bows and ‘stop/starts,’ done with a good distance between them. Gradually, as their play continued, they began to play closer and closer to each other, and finally began to make contact only after several minutes of mutual play. It really was one of the loveliest examples I’ve seen of two dogs reading one another and politely beginning a relationship.
Contrast that with the video she showed of a poor (Boston?) little dog being tossed into the mosh pit of a busy day care. The dog was literally swamped by 5 or 6 (I’m guessing here) other dogs who overwhelmed it, ran after it, surrounded it and basically terrified the poor thing, giving it no chance to get a breath much less manage to be appropriately greeted. Thank heavens, there are many, many day care facilities who are very careful when they introduce new dogs, starting with a one-on-one session with a known “good greeter” and then gradually introducing them to the entire group… would that they all did this, yes?
I’d be curious about your experiences with your dog, both while greeting and playing with unfamiliar dogs. My Willie, aka “I-came-with-so-many-issues-Trisha-called-me-the-Spawn-of-Satan once,” plays beautifully with other dogs IF I manage the introduction so that he doesn’t get overwhelmed. First impressions matter with dogs too, don’t they?!
Here’s Pia mugging with a statue in Louisvile:
Speaking of great play between dogs, I recently visited some dear friends who I met through our mutual love of Great Pyrenees. Here are 2 photos of Czar, Tundra and Osa the Newfie playing as beautifully as dogs can play. What a joy it was to watch them!
And here’s yet another view of fall at the farm. Sorry, I just can’t stop myself.
lin says
If my dog were human, she would have a big red “Does Not Play Well With Others” on her report card. The only dogs she actively courts are two Rhodesian Ridgebacks who are half her age. She does some clumsy play bows and dances around them. They pretty much ignore her.
I was very much interested in your observation about bad introductions at doggy day cares. That’s not the kind of thing an owner would necessarily think to ask about a facility, but it can make a tremendous difference in the dog’s enjoyment!
Holly says
I’ve done foster/rehab work for a long time. I often take 3 weeks before a new dog is allowed to mingle with everyone in my pack. I own 7 dogs of my own and I think it really really helps to not throw a new dog into the whole “family” thing too quickly.
When I get a new dog in it goes sort of like this:
1. All resident dogs are confined out of sight when the new dog comes in. New dog goes directly to a wire crate near my computer desk as that is where there is a corner, so there are only 2 sides a resident dog can approach from. The dog is allowed to get a drink of water, sniff around and look around before the other dogs are introduced. Usually about 10 to 15 minutes or so. Then the most socially accomplished dog is allowed to greet the new dog through the crate. If the greeting is explosive with her, she will turn her head, hesitate for a few seconds and then will leave. If that happens, the new dog will be allowed to be left alone for another 10 or 15 minutes and often she will come back by then and try again. There is almost never a second explosion. This has led me to think that it’s frequently an adrenalin dump that unplugs the thinking part of the new dogs brain. If it goes well we work our way though the pack to the least socially accomplished dog who will often avoid the new dog completely.
2. For the next 5-7 days, the most accomplished dog is placed in the same room in a crate when I take the new dog out. All other dogs are put out of sight while the new dog is brought in and out for potty/play/training breaks. If all goes well, the most accomplished dog is allowed to be loose on a sit or down stay when the new dog goes out. The second most accomplished dog is allowed to be in the crate. If all goes well with that, then the most accomplished dog is allowed to be loose.
3. one by one the dogs are allowed to interact but it often takes at least 2 weeks and more often 3 weeks before this is a non issue for me.
I try really really really hard to avoid any kind of confrontation. I want this to be as low key as I possibly can. If things go bad with those first few meetings, I’ve seen first hand how some dogs will target another dog in the pack for trouble from that point on. I don’t want that.
ABandMM says
Whenever I have brought my dog to visit friends and family who also have a dog, we arrange for the dogs to meet outside, especially if we will be visiting for awhile. Since I have a hound mix, my dog has to be on leash, but we give the dogs ample opportunity to sniff each other other and mark whatever spot they need to mark. The initial meeting seems to go better on this “neutral territory” rather than inside where the resident dog may feel like his/her home is being invaded.
When introducing my dog to others dogs at the park etc. I have mainly looked at the dogs’ hackles and tails to gauge how they are responding to each other. I will now pay more attention to the positioning of the dogs, even when in the context of being on a leash and not having full freedom to move about.
I have also been thinking about the recent blogs on play that you have posted. My hound mix is ~ 3.5 yrs old (and spayed). She has two friends that see quite often (and dog sit for), one is a female bluetick coonhound who is about 5 yrs and “her brother” is a neutered male terrier/boxer? mix who is about 60 lb and built like a middle linebacker. The bluetick and her brother play together and when wrestling the bluetick is on top most of the time. My dog will also wrestle with the terrier, and my dog takes the more dominant positions most of the time (I would say closer to 80/20). Things seem pretty equal if they play tug of war with a rope toy (both dogs weigh about the same).
Interestingly, the two female hounds do not play with each other. They don’t fight either, they just seem to treat each other as an “acquaintance”. However, the bluetick will let the other two know (by baying) if the wrestlemania match gets too out of hand. I have noticed the point in these wrestling matches where I need to step in and call a timeout.
Trisha, have you worked much with hounds/hound mixes? They do not seem to have the wide range of facial expressions that other dogs do. Most of the time my dog seems to have a frown-like face and the ears long and hanging around her face. I guess I am a sucker for that “sad-hound dog” look.
Of all the pictures I have of my dog, I could only find one where she has her mouth open and smiling. In that picture her friend (a beagle-mix) both have that “happy dog” face and their eyes are wide-open and bright. I’m sure some of these facial features were influenced by the slightly overdone hamburger that they were getting from a human :). When these two dogs play, it seems that they both want to be the “alpha” dog, and my dog does not like to be mounted. The best way for them to play is in an good sized fenced-in yard where they can chase each other rather than in an enclosed space where they tend to wrestle, and both dogs want to be on top. In this case, it seems like my dog gets frustrated and annoyed, so the timeouts are more frequent.
I just finished reading your two books “At the other end of the leash” and “For the love of a dog” and I enjoyed them very much. I’m going to spend a few months watching my dog more closely (and improving my body language!) and then re-read them so that I can further process all the good information you presented.
Stephanie says
I have a standard poodle who has some dog-dog anxiety. He was well-socialized from the time I got him at 8 1/2 weeks old with well-managed puppy, obedience, and agility classes. He still developed “aggression”. He has never gone in and taken a bite, but he lunges and makes a lot of noise. I worked with a behaviorist at Dogs Best Friend and she said he was visually sensitive and didn’t like face-to-face meetings with unfamiliar dogs (he can’t stand it when another dog stares at him during classes). Among other wonderful things, she recommended parallel greetings on leash where we walk with another person and dog and let the dogs take their time checking each other out. Last week, my dad got a new dog (just turned a year) and it’s important that these two dogs get along. We started with a 3 mile walk where Louie (my dog) pretended Dez (my dad’s dog) didn’t exist for about the first half of the walk. Gradually each dog took turns doing quick sniffs of each other’s rears and then began walking side-by-side. When we got home, we kept Dez on leash, but took Louie off. I had to make myself appear calm and relaxed – loose body and face, mouth open (yes I’ve read Dr. McConnel’s books). It worked. After a few minutes, Louie approached Dez (who is very respectful of other dogs or this may not have worked) to really check him out. He then playfully pawed at him so we took Dez off leash. When Louie would run at Dez, Dez would turn and sniff the ground or scratch (calming signals?) and Louie would stop and sometimes do the same. After three days of this same greeting and play, the two dogs really hit it off, play bowing, chasing and rolling around. When they got “too wild” we called them apart and did some simple obedience exercises before letting them play again. We didn’t want things to get out of control. We also limited the off leash time to about 10 minutes and kept my other dog inside. Dez spent his first year in a hunting kennel, with little or no play after he left the litter (poor guy), so it took him a while to learn to actually play like a dog. I’ve never seen Louie try so hard to engage another dog in play either. He has a few friends that he’s known since he was a puppy, but this is his first new friend in over a year (he’s just two years old). We walk with two other neighborhood dogs, but I haven’t felt a good “vibe” that tells me they are ready for play. You need to be able to “read” the dogs and go with your instinct, I think. One dog that Louie has known since his youngest days still triggers his bad behavior UNLESS we do a parallel walk first-then they’re fine! I am so grateful to Dogs Best Friend (Chelse) and Dr. McConnel (through her books, etc.) for their advice, and so happy that Louie has a new friend with whom he can burn off some of that energy!
Kris Olsson says
How interesting to hear other stories of dogs that don’t always get along with others, and the need for regulating play!
My situation is that my 7 year old white German Shepherd female is the sweetest dog with people and especially children and with any dog that has been introduced to her (visiting dogs to our house, when she visits friends’ dogs). Her problem is about 10% of the time when greeting new dogs either on the trail (when walking her) or at the dog park (when a new dog arrives). In nearly all cases during initial greetings, she approaches the dog pretty calmly, but often stiffly. If all goes well, after some mutual sniffing, they move on, either continuing our walk or continuing whatever she’s doing at the dog park (usually involving “chasing” other dogs who are fetching balls). Sometimes, though, she approaches the dog, head held high, with the apparent goal of showing the other dog just how tall she is (which she is). This is where, depending on the other dog, the greeting has escalated into a “fight.” None of these fights has ever resulted in any injuries. I have managed this by keeping her on leash during greetings and inserting myself into the greeting if I observe the warning signs in her body language. If I sense she’s not happy with the other dog, I move her away and try the approach again, which has always worked.
So, what’s going on with her? She’s the least aggressive dog I know in every other aspect. I also take her on off leash trail runs and XC skiing, so I do have concerns she could encounter a strange dog before I get a chance to be close by. And, this has happened, and everything has been fine, but a couple of times there has been a tussle (with no injuries). One time, though, I took here XC skiing on a local trail where I swear we met 30 dogs over the course of the trip and she was a perfect lady with each greeting. In contrast, just the other day, I was walking her on trail and we encountered an Akita on a leash. They approached each other, both heads held high, very quite, while I exchanged pleasantries with the owner. After about 10 seconds of staring, they simultaneously lunged at and snarled at each other, then, the moment we two humans pulled them away, they were completely calm again, and we both went on our separate ways.
Claudia says
Kris – my dog Ginger has very similar issues. She used to be very dog-aggressive and reactive, which has now mostly been settled. But new encounters are still iffy – most of the time, just fine, but sometimes she greets the other dog by climbing on its shoulder or putting a paw on its back, which can start a brawl (no injuries – she fights like a walrus, with mouth open, but never bites). As long as I’m there to manage the first 10 seconds, there is no problem, and she’ll be friends with that dog forever.
I assume it happens with dogs who are potentially equals in status – in which case she has to make sure she’s on top. She doesn’t tend to do this with dogs that are much smaller or much taller, and it happens with females more often than males
Kristin Higgins says
I had to respond to this because I don’t understand my dog’s behavior. My dog Bacardi ignores other dogs. Acts if they’re not there, at the park and even at home with my mom’s 12-year-old dog who I took in last year. They’ve had an entire year together, but they don’t play together. She won’t even lay down near her.
Bacardi becomes only semi interested in Molly’s existence when someone is playing with her. Usually this prompts Bacardi to sit next to me and bark at whoever is playing with Molly.
I think my 6-year-old Bacardi has brain damage. She’s been on phenobarbitol for seizures since she was 7 weeks old (theory is her neck got twisted coming out the birth canal). I wonder if this explains some of it? Or if it’s more so because she didn’t meet another dog until she was about 2. She’s definitely a people person/canine.
Rose says
Our Beatrice (5yr spayed female chow chow) is very non-aggressive/aloof with other dogs. That is the only phrase that really conveys the attitude, I think. She’s our 3rd Chow and displays what we believe is very typical Chow breed behavior … in chows that are well socialized.
If she’s on leash and we’re walking somewhere … she barely gives them a look. If we stop to talk to a person that has another dog on leash, she’s not aggressive, does sniff greeting, then usually lays down or pulls a bit on the leash … “let’s go”.
If we’re at off leash dog parks, dogs come to her and if they aren’t pushy (at her head) they’ll do reciprocal bum sniffs for a bit. Then either she walks away or the other dog will. Occassionally, she’ll see some bigger dogs running/playing and those are the dogs she’ll run with for a bit. If she begins to feel overwhelmed, she’ll show teeth, sometimes low growl and come back to us. She’s always the first in the bunch to stop the game/come back to the human.
We used to have a large male Standard Poodle as a neighbour — what pals they were. They didn’t grow up together, he moved here when he was 3 – she was about the same age. She would even sit on our deck and look towards his house. If their garage opened, she would hear it, look outside and come and get us. They played together like 2 puppies … but she was the one who set the rules. Sadly he moved. She’s never played so well with any other dog.
One behaviour has us stumped. For some male dogs, she will turn and put her butt right up in their face and swish back and forth. This happens after the initial sniff … my hubby calls her “his little tramp” but I’m thinking there must be more to it than an invitation to “hop on” — because if a dog ever tries that, she lets them know that is not acceptable.
What is she telling that dog?
Kat says
I just ran across this site and am delighted to find more from one of my favorite authors. I’m very fortunate in that we adopted a year old herding dog (possibly an English Shepherd) that is fabulous with other dogs. He is known as the dog park sheriff and park Ranger (his name is Ranger). Since I’ve noticed that most conflicts between dogs at the park occur at the gate he has been taught to back away from the gate on command and wait to greet the newcomer. The park we most often frequent as a two gate system where dogs enter the first gate into an entry area where their leashes can be removed and they can have a moment to examine the energy of the park before the other gate is opened and they enter the park. Ranger can greet the newcomer through the fence/gate but then is asked to move away until they’re inside and the initial rush has subsided somewhat.
What fascinates me the most is the way Ranger interacts with other dogs. Some are instant friends, others take awhile and a few he chooses not to associate with. I know if he avoids a dog the dog is going to be trouble at some point. He’s an excellent judge and I’ve never known him to be wrong. When a Neapolitan Mastiff started coming as a four month old puppy he was happy to play with her unless she opened her mouth to him. When she’d open her mouth he’d bowl her over or snap at her to make her back up and submit. After a few play sessions she played nicely with him but by the time she was six months old she was aggressive with other dogs and could no longer come to the park. It looked to me like Ranger knew something about her and wanted to establish their relationship while he could still enforce it.
Ranger dominates the dog park. Bullies are not tolerated and you’ll often find him running interference for a dog that is overwhelmed. A great example is a couple of puppies, one a lab mix and the other a Newfoundland. The puppies were about the same age and on this particular occasion there were only the three dogs present at the park. The Newfoundland had tried playing with Ranger but rapidly learned that he couldn’t keep up. When the lab mix arrived the Newfoundland wanted to play but the mix was only a third of the size and quite overwhelmed by this giant puppy. Ranger would allow the puppies to play but as soon as the lab’s tail started to drop and back to hunch he would herd the Newfoundland puppy away. After a few minutes he would allow the puppies back together until the lab was acting afraid again and the Newfoundland would be herded away. I didn’t time it but my impression was that the puppies were able to play together for longer and longer periods of time without intervention. I’ve seen Ranger exhibit this sort of behavior on several occasions.
The other thing I’ve seen Ranger do is to take a dog that doesn’t appear to know how to play with others to a less frequented part of the park and “teach” them. He’ll start with play bows until the dog copies him. This is followed by some prancing in parallel with a small amount of bumping along the sides. There will be some chasing and finally boxing and wrestling. Ranger is always in control. If the other dog gets a bit overexcited he stops the play until the other dog calms down. He does this by stopping, turning away and ignoring the other dog until he sees the other dog exhibit some calming signals. When that happens he offers a play bow and when it is answered resumes play. Some of his “clients” learn to play well with any other dog others can only be comfortable with very solid well mannered playmates but all of them learn to play well with him and will react with joy to his arrival. I should add that sometimes he finds the poorly socialized dog on his own and sometimes I direct him to that dog.
We’re very fortunate in our dog and I’m fascinated watching him.
lisa says
My Dane is most definitely “vigorous”! He’s overly excited around other dogs, and if the dog isn’t small, he absolutely plays like a gorilla. He’s very much into the chase, body bump, and chest smush. Being so big though, he essentially beats them up without meaning to.
Oddly, with little dogs he’s much gentler but lab size and up get a pounding. Uhg.
Lynda says
My little boy is a 10 yr old Bichon Frise, and he is my prize. I love him to the moon and back. He is very intelligent, loveable, hillarious and devoted to me. We have been together every day and night since I brought him home from the breeder @ 12 weeks old.
Here are my 2 questions:
1. Whenever we encounter another Bichon, or one that looks like one, he cries, pulls on his leash to get at it, and the two of them stand up and do a Tango on their back legs. It’s very funny, but he only does it with other Bichon types. Can you explain this?
2. My sweet boy was attacked by a German Shepard, and was badly hurt. He survived with stitches, puncture wounds in his stomach, and big purple bruises. He was very lucky. There is a woman who walks her dog through my development, and the dog is very aggressive. It is an Akita, does not have a proper harness, and she is not a very big woman. Her dog goes into a temper tantrum of ferocious snarling and lunging when he comes across another dog, and she stops and wraps his leash around him and hangs on with 2 hands. My dog responds with ferocious barks, but he shakes and cries and I cannot get him under control. He is so distraught. I try to avoid this woman at all costs, but she shows up unexpectedly when this happens I cannot console my dog or get him to focus on me even when I am trying to drag him away or stand in front of him to block his sight of this dog. He is always been a very well trained and well behaved, calm dog but he obviously sees this dog as a huge threat and I cannot get him to redirect.