Good news and bad news:
Best and wonderful news for me is that my sister, Dr. Wendy Barker, is coming to do a reading for her new book, Nothing Between Us, this Thursday night at UW. (Come one come all!) Her book has not a darn thing to do with dogs, but it’s pure and simply brilliant and I can’t wait for her reading. (For those of you who are interested in a novel in “prose/poetry” form about a multi-racial affair and life in the 60’s in Berkeley, California, the talk is in Helen C. White, Room 66191, 7 pm, Thursday the 29th). Full disclosure: Yup, she is my sister and so my objectivity might be a tad, uh, challenged? But I’m not the only one raving about this book… everyone I know who has read it loves it…
Sad news is about the farm. It might sound strange, but I have to have my silo taken down this Friday, and I’m grieving the loss. It’s stands as a wonderful bridge to the past, and as a structure that adds complexity and depth to the farm. I’ve let ivy grow up it and in summer it’s quite the picture. However, it has to go. The huge storm we had a few weeks ago undermined it’s foundation, and either it comes down in a controlled way, or it comes down sometime in the future on its own. It could land on the barn, on the sheep or on Willie. None of those things are likely, but then, how much of life actually turns out to be? In addition, there is now about 2-3 feet of air, instead of ground, on one side, the side that all of us walk by several times a day. If an animal fell in, they’d slide down to the bottom of the empty silo, about 15-12 feet, and it would end up one of those feature stories on the local news, in which 3 fire departments spend all day rescuing a trapped dog/cat/raccoon while the owner stands in the background wringing her hands. We have the hole covered with plywood and straw bales right now (in back of the silo, out of sight in this photo) . . . but still. Stuff happens. Here how it looked this morning after taking the sheep up the hill . . .
Here’s a good addition to the farm: The fence in the foreground in the photo below is a new portable, electric fence. It will allow us to make much better use of the pasture, by doing controlled grazing and forcing the sheep to eat in the areas that they tend to avoid. Right now they are in an area that they usually avoid because although it has great grass, it’s in a dip between the woods and a slight hill to the right. That makes them less able to spot danger from a distance, and even on little farms they are predisposed to spend their time where it is safest. Also, they like to graze uphill (less work on their necks) and because of that they always end up overgrazing the top of the hill and wasting good grass in other areas. With 9 adults and 19 lambs, I need all the pasture I can get this year.
Of course, electric fences like this have their disadvantages: If they turn off an animal can get a head stuck and, worst case, die, they are labor intensive and they don’t work as well if it’s super dry and hard to get the stakes and the ground rod into the ground. My biggest worry isn’t any of the above though: it’s that Willie gets hit by the fence when he’s close to me, and associates it with me, or with working sheep. At some point he’s just going to have to learn, but I have to think about how to set it up so that it happens without him making the wrong association. Meanwhile, all is peaceful now!
Mateus says
Trisha,
have you seen the sports’ first page of the “The New York Times” today?
Bred to Blood?
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/04/26/sports/26greyhounds.html
Does anybody understand the situation?
J. says
Oooh, learning about electric fences can go wrong indeed, I hope you manage to set it up without mishaps!
My brother has a big field with electric fence. Tara tried to pass under it – once. Got the exact right association and has never tried it again, whether the electricity is on or off.
However my previous dog, Charley, inadvertently touched it with her ear when the fence was first installed. She had no intention of breaking out, in fact I think she never even noticed the fence was there at the time. She refused to come off the terrace into the field for about a year, and felt uncomfortable when visiting my brother’s house till the day she died (about five years later).
Sorry about your silo. Sic transit… etc. 🙂
Holly says
I would grieve the silo also. There was a wonderful silo on a road near me, got some ok photos of it when I first bought my camera and went back last year (after learning how to use the equipment better)and it was gone. I was upset, because it was so interesting.
I like your fence and it seems like it would be a good way to do the intensive grazing you want. I’ve thought that if I had my own place, that is exactly what I would do with the horses. I know a lot of cattle men use intensive grazing to control pests, parasites and over/under grazing.
Congrats to your sister! How exciting!
Karen says
Just wanted to pop in and say how much I have been enjoying reading your posts! Having three dogs (two are border collies) and four ewes that are now just lawnmowers, I can relate to it all.
Love the sheep stories (been there, done most of that), and can’t get over how WHITE your lambs are. Don’t remember ours ever being that clean looking, despite being out on pasture. We have one dog that decided that he no longer wanted to sleep in our room at night, for whatever reason, but he seems to be quite happy in his chair in the livingroom. He only joins us in the bedroom if it is very windy, as he finds the noise worrying.
And then today, when I saw your post about the electric sheep fencing….well on my blog I show other uses for that:) We don’t need it for it’s intended use any more. One of those things was great in the right situation if it was working properly, and at other times just a PITA!
rheather says
That’s too bad about the silo-can any of it be re-used for other stuff? That way it can live on(somewhat) in other ways.
I use electric netting for my goats and the dogs both got shocked once. Luckily, they blamed the fence and just stayed far, far away from it for a while. Which was okay because they didn’t need to work near it. Does Will know an ouch word? I use ‘owie’ to tell the dogs that the perimeter shock collar fence is on. They are more cautious and stay further back.
And completely off topic- I discovered an energetic buck can jump/climb the fence while you have it off to move them to dinner. And that two willing goats can have lots of sex even if you’re chasing them. (And cursing. A lot.)
Nan says
I know what you mean about your old Silo. You are right to avoid the risk but these novel features are hard to give up. I remember my godparents old barn in Vermont which was our playground in childhood but in time because a hazard. For years we all fended off the people who would drive by and make an offer for the wonderful old barn boards but finally we had to concede we were putting animals and children at risk. Your electric fence reminds me of a story. I lodged my young husky mix with someone for boarding for a week and they let her run in the woods with them off lead wearing a collar that would be triggered by their electronic fence. They failed, however, to introduce her to the fence. She ran across the fence line and got a mild shock. Her response was to fly back to their side and get in perfect heel position. She was never left there again but I did sometimes visit and would have her off lead (without the collar) but on their trails, even with me there and no collar, she stayed in heel. When they visited me in another part of Vermont she did the same thing but when they visited me at the beach she ran free. Her learning was clearly that the combination of that couple and the woods was volatile and it was best to cling. In fact even without them when I taught her to pull a sled I found that it was particularly difficult to get her comfortable running out from me when we were in the woods.
Nan says
Your sister, by the way, is a wonderful poet. I look forward to her book.
Pamela says
Two published writers in one family, huh? Is this an example of breeding or socialization?
Sorry to hear about the silo coming down. Place is really important to us and the silo is obviously part of your setting that you enjoy.
Maybe we’re not all that different from sheep– After all, they don’t feel comfortable eating in certain settings even if the grass is perfectly fine.
Robin G. says
Re; the silo, I would mourn the loss of it, too 🙁
Jan says
Sorry about your silo. Glad you at least have some good pictures of it, in real life and in your head.
One funny story about a dog and an electric fence was my cousins brought their dog (a doberman) my farm with an electric fence and we were walking along when suddenly the dog touched the fence, got zapped, yelped and ran all the way back to the car, jumped in and then peed all over the back seat. Poor girl!! It didn’t scar her for life, but she respected the fence for ever more. My cat got zapped and forever after that wouldn’t come near a wire of any kind no matter where it was. I felt horrid while training my dogs to respect the fence but now I can use the word “hot” and they will stop whatever they are doing and look at me with caution in their eyes. I don’t think I have had my fence turned on for two years now but the dogs and llamas still respect it.
Meganwf says
Yes yes please share how you introduce the electric netting! We used it for raising pigs last year and Badger was a brand new puppy. I had been trying to teach him “off” as in, stop nipping my heels! when we approached the hot wires he charged ahead while I said “off” and boy did that command stick. But he wouldn’t come back to that area for weeks. I use the same electric fencing for our laying hens but don’t have it electrified. At some point it will be hot again and I’d like to make sure to introduce it to the dog properly!
Alexandra says
Congratulations to your sister – that is wonderful! Sorry to hear about the silo; I would be bummed too.
I have no experience with dogs and electric fences, but I did brush my back on the hot wire of one while ducking under once when I was a teenager visiting a family friend’s farm. It didn’t hurt per se, but the feeling was *extremely* unpleasant. Here I am a human with a big fancy brain and to this day I don’t want to go within 10 feet of an electric fence. Good luck with Willie.
Jane says
I love the fact that your sister’s last name is “Barker”. I’m sure there is a word for this-having a name associated with one’s interest or avocation. I love finding horticulture/botany people with last names like “Moss”, “Linden”, “Oakley”. Is your sister in to dogs/animals the way you are?
I learn so much from this blog and your website. Thank you.
Liz F. says
Maybe this is wishful thinking, but could someone reinforce the silo’s foundation? By shoring up the inside (creating a dam), filling the hole with stone then topsoil, and by raising the grade of the landscape you might buy a few more years… unless the structure’s too far gone. It’s sad to see it go.
carla says
Sorry about your silo.
Some electric fences make a “pop” sound, I think they are called pulsating maybe. Could you teach him to associate the wire, the noise and “hot”?
When I was a kid we had an electric fence down low in the yard to try to keep the chickens off the blacktop. We had a dog get into it before I could disconnect the handle/gate. After that, whenever you said “hot” she would just stop still.
Would love to see your sister’s read, but too far from here….
JJ says
About a year ago, I was pulling down the string to open the mini-blinds in my bedroom window. I hadn’t realized my dog was standing right there and my elbow hit him in the head. (He’s a Great Dane and his head is easily above my elbow when he stands tall.) My elbow did not hit Duke that hard. It didn’t hurt my elbow, and I’ve seen Duke run head first into a concrete wall (while chasing a cat) and not be phased in the least. But this event triggered something in him and to this day, Duke stands back at least 5 feet while I open ANY window blinds in the house. The second the blinds stop moving, he is happy to come forward and look out.
What is interesting to me is how Duke very quickly generalized the mini-blind/open sound to all windows in my house. It seems unfair that such generalization always seems to work against us instead of for us. Why can’t he generalize doing a trick in all locations? But he generalizes head bonking with opening any/all windows immediately? (or so it seemed)
I bring this up only because I can’t imagine how one would introduce a dog to the pain of an electric fence without them developing a serious issue with it. If Duke can freak out over a simple head bonk, I can’t imagine what he would do with an electric fence. Like others, I will be curious to hear how you decide to handle it.
Alex Keir says
We had to have our old dairy barn taken down last year, finally it had become a hazard and was not paying for it’s upkeep. But so much emotion tied up in letting go of past ways. The barn had housed the first registered of Guernseys in Nova Scotia and oodles of other animals since then.
Passages, eh?
Good luck with the e-fence. So much depends on everything:) and the dogs temperament and how they process information.
Cora says
I also thought it was interesting that someone who devotes her life to dogs has a sister with the name “Barker.” Along the same vein, I used to work with a physical education teacher named Jim, I go to a veterinarian named Dr. Crabbe, I once had a piano teacher named Melody, and I work with a man named Art who’s married to an art teacher.
The show ‘Nature’ (on PBS) recently aired a special on two orphaned cheetahs who were raised by a wildlife photographer; at one point he is containing one in a game reserve that’s several thousand acres bordered by an electric fence. Of course, the cheetah begins pacing the fence within a day or two of being held there and his presence attracts the attention of some local baboons who are outside the fence. The baboons, with their sophisticated primate brains and opposable thumbs, quickly learn that they can jump onto (and over) the fence and not get shocked, as long as they’re not in contact with the ground and the fence at the same time. They quickly learn to use this knowledge to better taunt the captive cheetah. Oh, the things we primates will do to lord our superiority over others!
Cynthia says
JJ: I’ve often thought about the unfairness of generalizations: why is it so easy to become afraid of all people because of one bad experience, but not easy to love all people because you get showered with chicken by one person? I guess that fear has its evolutionary place, but it’s too bad evolution didn’t work the other way: by generalizing a good thing it increases your chances of survival. Isn’t that how we learned to love sweets?
Trisha says
Ah, but 1 good thing can never kill you, while 1 bad thing can! But I so agree with Cynthia, would that it work the other way. FYI, Will got hit by the fence yesterday BEFORE I could set it up. I was not close by, and the sheep were quite far away too, so I think it’ll be okay. I worked him back down the hill right away, and then again at a friend’s house that night, and he seems fine around sheep. But this morning, before I turned it on he went right up to it and put his nose onto it. Apparently his sensitivity (as the comments have mentioned) does not include learning what I want him to learn! But generally he is SO sensitive I think it’s risky to teach him “Ouch” or “Careful”… I’d do it with other dogs but not with one like him. I truly believe that if he thought I had anything to do with the shock it would take months to repair our relationship. (Am I the only one with a super super sensitive dog that on occasion thinks about the simplicity of owning a blockhead?) So I am still going to have to set it up.. plan is to turn on the fence with no sheep around and put something behind it that Will might be interested in. It’ll be something I don’t want him to have anyway, I’d never use one of his toys or a healthy food….then I’ll move away and busy myself in another part of the pasture and try not to pass out from worry. I’ll be blogging again Wed or Thursday, will keep you all posted.
And thanks for the sympathy about the barn. Afraid there is no option, not safe in anyway to try to repair, could literally get someone killed. I keep reminding myself: “It’s a thing, just a thing…..” Am working on that Buddhist wisdom that everything changes, the pain is in not accepting that and trying to hold on.
Sorry haven’t answered more comments, so many brilliant ones. Am slammed to the wall with student papers (now rewrites), lambs, end of the semester, etc etc….. Will catch up someday, as best as I can.
Patricia says
I am glad to see you mention the idea that some shelters are too stringent about letting dogs be adopted. In my area of the western suburbs of Chicago, many shelters require a fenced yard. If they would just ride through the neighborhoods, they would see this requirement rules out many possible people as most homes are not fenced and communities discourage fences. And the area has the Prairie Path, and dog parks in forest preserves where dogs can be exercised and socialized. I look at my own dogs and think they have a good home even though they are deprived of a fenced yard.
One dog parker who volunteered for many years for a shelter was turned down when as a result of a divorce she moved into a townhouse without a fenced yard. Yes, she left her other dogs with her husband and a 10 acre fenced yard. But she wanted small dogs for her new life. She was able to get one from an out of state shelter who needed homes for puppy mill rescues. But she wanted two dogs and after talking it over with her vet decided to do exactly the thing she abhorred, bought her second dog from a pet store.
And my neighbors also tend to buy their dogs from breeders rather than get a shelter dog or rescue dog as they have also been turned down. Most of them are older retired people living in townhomes. They have had dogs for years and are experienced but get denied. So they go to a pet shop or breeder.
Many of my fellow dog parkers have talked about this. They say the dogs are in prison. It is easy to get a dog into a shelter and tough to get one out. Most people live in urban and suburban areas and that means leads and dog parks.
Pam Coblyn says
This has nothing to do with your post, but that last picture of your dear border collie watching over the flock made me think of something wonderful to share with you….
I hope you get RFD-TV on your cable channel or Dish satellite TV. Every Sunday they air a show called “Come Bye” from 11 pm to midnight. It’s a re-broadcast of the BBC sheepdog trials that take place all over England and Ireland. Trust me….there is MORE drama than on a TV miniseries like The Sopranos. In fact, my husband who is not as involved with Everything Border Collie is also a die-hard fan. We are just glued to our seats!
You will love this….the announcer is absolutely wonderful and a very droll man. You will love this!
JJ says
re: “Ah, but 1 good thing can never kill you, while 1 bad thing can!”
You certainly have a point. I hadn’t thought of it that way.
Even so, thanks to Cynthia and you for sympathizing/seeing my point.
Lyssa says
I’ve known several people who have introduced their dogs to a hot fence by baiting the fence. It’s a way a person can be pretty far away and is less likely to be associated with the zap. What is commonly used are pieces of hotdogs, though I would pick something that is not a normal treat for the dog. The dog is let into the enclosure and finds out on it’s own about the hot fence while searching for the hotdogs.
I know it doesn’t sound nice, but it’s a controlled introduction to a hot fence vs. hitting the fence full bore when racing after a cat on the other side of the fence, etc.
We had a lot of trouble with deer crashing through the hot wire tape around the horse pasture. Baiting the fence with peanut butter for a few weeks (without the horses in there) was a huge help. The deer were zapped a few times but stopped breaking down the fence for the rest of the fall…which is safer in the long run since it reduces the likelihood of a deer getting tangled in broken tape.
My own dog zapped himself on the pasture fence (without bait) but did not associate it with me. He’s also the same dog that I accidentally hit in the eye with a tennis ball while using a “chuck-it.” Immediately after he was struck he attacked the tennis ball but did not make the connection that I was the who really gave him the black eye. He still loves playing fetch with the chuck-it.
Jennie says
Your fear about Will hitting the fence is very valid. My little terrier hit the cow fence while looking at the cows a year and a 1/2 ago. She screamed for 2 hours and to this day is scared of cows. Even if she see one way off in the distance while we’re driving in the car she growls.
Janice says
Sorry you are losing your silo–have you been using it for grain storage? My 110 year old barn didn’t have a silo with it when I got my farm, but I have, in recent years, found some metal grain bins at farm sales–not as picturesque but useful.
I have used the portable electric mesh fencing for about 4 years now. It can make a tremendous difference in how the pastures grow and produce. I used to think that I understood pasture management and then I attended a lecture by Dr. James Gerrish and found out that what I thought I knew wouldn’t fill a thimble and was mostly wrong. So now I am doing a lot better. If you ever have a chance to hear him, I highly recommend that you do so. I did lose an animal due to the electromesh fence the second year that I used it and if you want to contact me privately, I’ll tell you the stupid mistake (that I will never do again) that caused it to happen, so that you can avoid this.
I have been wondering about generalizations in dog learning as well. I have two border collie puppies who are 5 months old. I have kept them away from the sheep and goats because they are too young and also the ewes and does are kidding and lambing now and nothing is meaner to a dog than a horned goat that is protecting her baby (I am up to 35 goat kids and around 20 new lambs and only have a few more ewes to go–whew). I don’t even let my experienced herd dog, Spring, around the new moms unless he has a lot of room to get out of their way (he can move them down in the pasture but I don’t let him around them in the barn because he doesn’t have room to escape and could get easily hurt). So puppies are staying in the yard by the house and only the experienced dog is allowed into the barnyard. The only problem is that sometimes the puppies get out front and they have discovered the great joy of chasing barn cats and CHICKENS! I have been working on recall but it is hard to compete with a fluttering, squawking hen. I have read that you should not reprimand a border collie puppy for chasing things like chickens and cats as this could generalize and they won’t work livestock. So I am not sure what to do. The chickens and barn cats live here too and should be able to live their lives free of harassment and I don’t want either of the pups to be successful at killing a chicken. Spring came here at a year of age and has never chased the chickens–I’m not really sure how he ended up that way, but it sure has been nice because I don’t have to worry about it and he keeps his mind on the stock that he should be paying attention to. So I don’t want the puppies to generalize to think that if I reprimand them for chasing chickens then they could get in trouble for chasing sheep when it comes time to train them. But I really don’t want them chasing the chickens (who are loose in the barn and barnyard these days because my pen got knocked down last year and hasn’t been rebuild yet).
Oh I forgot to mention–Spring got zapped by the electromesh fence the first year we used it and now he avoids it whether it is turned on or not. I don’t recall the circumstances of his first experience but he never associated it with me or the sheep and likely both were present or the fence wouldn’t have been hot to begin with. But if I need him on the other side of a section of it to work some sheep, I can send him over it by saying jump and he goes right over it and gets to work. I don’t recall ever seeing him jump one when there wasn’t a job to do, but if there is work to do, he just gets past it and on with the job. But Spring is not a super-sensitive dog like Will, so his reaction could be different.
Oh rheather…I can relate!!! Amorous goats. Failed fences! Lots and lots of cursing! (Do you still get demerits if your cursing is directed at goats??)
Trisha says
Quickly: Commenters are absolutely right that many examples given of meta-communication don’t fit the definition, possibly including my own. [Sigh. Lordy I hate making mistakes!] Would write more, and promise to clean this up but heard minutes ago that Jim badly tore his bicep muscle. Not good. Time to go take care of my Two Legged guy….. more when the dust settles.