In my last post I mentioned that Skip was being given couch privileges, but he didn’t feel quite comfortable up there when first allowed. Here’s the photo I took several weeks ago:
It’s pretty clear who was the most comfortable. This photograph, along with a post on my Facebook page, led to some comments about when dogs are allowed “privileges” like access to the couch, and when they aren’t. At the risk of resuming a conversation everyone else is done with, I’ve found myself thinking about the issues of “privilege,” “fairness,” and whether getting to sleep up on a couch might influence the relationships between household dogs.
First, let me tackle some thoughts I have on the concept of giving dogs PRIVILEGES in the house (or whatever you want to call them–that in itself is an interesting issue). As I mentioned earlier, Skip was not allowed on the couch at first because he plays so rough with Maggie that I wanted her to have a “safe place” to go in the living room. Skip may be sweet and funny and adorable and loving, but he’s also pushy. His primary movement in play is a hip slam, and he was so rough that there were times Maggie was simply afraid to play with him even outside. (I should write out his behavior as Hip SLAM!!, but with “slam” in a larger font.) He certainly never hip slammed me, but early on he was happy to run into me to charge out a door. He’s a big, strong dog who is physically fearless, and if ever there was an individual who “threw his weight around,” it was Skip.
Skip had never been in a house when we got him, so at first he spent his time in his crate or closely monitored in one room. Skip learned quickly that he got lots of petting if he lay down on the floor beside the couch, and never even tried to get up. Once he was house trained, we left him downstairs at night while Maggie came up to the bedroom with us. Skip is such a presence that I wanted Maggie to feel like she still had her special time with us in the bedroom at night. Eventually, we put down a blanket and I encouraged Skip to sleep on the couch at night when we were upstairs. He said “Yes, please,” without hesitation.
And now, now that Maggie is holding her own playing vigorous tug games with Skip outside–where she can drag him around across the grass as if he weighed nothing–we are letting Skip up on the couch during the day. And he’s getting very happy with it:
Was it FAIR to let Maggie on the couch when Skip couldn’t come up? I saw that a lot in the Facebook comments, that I wasn’t being fair to Skip. I have several answers to that, including what Karen London and I wrote in Feeling Outnumbered: “Life is Not Always Fair and That’s Okay.” I’m the first to argue that dogs can be jealous, but that doesn’t mean that they need to be treated with exact equality. Every dog is different, and needs to be handled differently. Skip has learned to sit before I open the door to go outside, because otherwise he’d knock me over. I don’t care if Maggie sits or not, because she’s never once run into me. But Maggie has to Stand/Stay when I open her crate in the car, because otherwise she’ll bolt out of the crate and could get herself hurt. I never say a word to Skip, because he walks out of his crate and stands still for me to attach a leash to his collar.
In the booklet, Dr. London and I speculate that dogs “don’t expect life to be fair all the time.” Which leads me to ponder the definition of “fair” and how we use it in relation to our dogs. So… to you. Do we need to be “fair” to our dogs?
Lastly, and I’m burying the lead here, because this is what I’ve been thinking about all week, whether having privileges affects a dog’s behavior. Does getting up on the couch make a dog more likely to pull rank on another? This, of course, brings up the “D” word, which is dealt with well in a 2021 Washington Post article by Jacob Brogan. The summary, based on interviews with a variety of behaviorists, trainers and researchers, is that social status is indeed relevant in some or many dog-dog interactions, but not so between dogs and people. This is where the couch comes in–a highly-prized resource, which is also higher in vertical space than being down on the floor.
My question on this to you then, is this: What have you seen in your dog that might relate to a dog getting privileges, especially couch access, that has, or has not, changed the relationship between dogs in your household? Here’s one observation from my house to get us started: A few nights ago Skip jumped up on the couch, for the first time ever, during the time when Maggie and I do our most cuddly cuddling. She sprawls on her back over my lap and I rub her belly for, well, a long time, because it feels as good to me as it does to her. But this time, Skip leaned in, trying to get pets himself. After pushing into Maggie for awhile, he lay down as I quietly asked him to do. The next time we took the dogs out to play, Maggie played tug with Skip like Gal Gadot in an action movie. I’ve never seen her so assertive. She growled so deep and loud that for the first time in her almost nine year-old life I wondered if I should intervene before things got out of hand. Skip loved it, however, although he eventually tired out and lay down in the grass and let her drag him around like a rag doll. Was Maggie’s extreme play behavior the result of his horning in on her special massage time? I honestly have no idea; but it was an interesting correlation of events. I’d love to hear your thoughts.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: First, may I just say that anyone who thinks setting the clocks back gives you an extra hour of sleep does not have dogs?
This past weekend was the last big trial of the season, and Skip and I seem to be in a habit of doing poorly in our first run and well in the second. On Friday we got a group of sheep so far beyond our skill set that we didn’t have a chance. Four sheep, with a runner in the front (aka “I’m a deer, I’m a deer!”) and two hay bales in the back whose only interest was standing still and grazing. If you tried to keep the back two moving you lost the sprinter in the front. Skip got too wide like he does when he’s worried, and I couldn’t figure out who to focus on, so we ended up with letters rather than a number score.
Day two gifted us with a reasonable set of sheep, and Skip was at his best. He stopped a tad short on his outrun, but we nailed the fetch line and drive until I got boggled up on the second drive panel. (It’s hard for us less experienced mortals to find the straight line between two sets of gates that are a long way away and horizontal in front of you.) But we got a great line from there to the pen, and had the sheep walking in when we ran out of time. That meant we didn’t have much of a score (lost 10 points on the pen), but I was happy with his run. He did everything I asked, committed to controlling the sheep, and looked happy afterward. Maggie got to work too, helping move the sheep from each run into the rest area, so a good time was had by all. It was windy and cold on Friday so we were all parka-ed up, but much nicer on Saturday and lovely to see some good friends.
No video of our runs this time, but I did get a few photos on Saturday. Here’s an enthusiastic spectator, the Border Collie Loam, the dog of our trial host John Wentz, hanging out in the judge’s truck and watching the runs with equal intensity.
I couldn’t resist snapping a portrait of this lovely dog, owned by Mike Guros:
These lovely maple leaves are all gone now, but lit up our yard a few weeks ago.
The flock is pretty happy; they get yummy alfalfa hay in the morning and there’s still some fresh grass to graze on. I don’t know if they’ve enjoyed the beautiful skies and clouds like I have, but I hope so.
May there be blue skies in your neck of the woods (or cloudy ones if you need rain). Chime in about privileges and what dogs make of them; I’m so curious what you have to say.
Chris from Boise says
4 year old Rowan is the rough player in our household, and 12 year old Obi is not enthralled with her play style. He seeks refuge on the couch, and she’s not allowed to harass him there. She has recently learned to grab the corner of the couch cushion and haul it off, and him with it – while we’re paying attention elsewhere. The couch, needless to say, is looking a bit the worse for wear (which is how we discovered her tactics). What a little demon she is!
The great news is that he (who outweighs her considerably) has just started being willing to play tug with a looong tug toy (keeping him well away from her enthusiastic teeth). There is hope for their play relationship…
Jean says
Beautiful photos. Thank-you for sharing.
Susan Wroble says
We raised a number of service dogs, and one of the earlier ones came back to us and then became a therapy dog for Colorado Children’s Hospital. As part of that job, we had to teach her to become comfortable with something she had never been allowed to do before—getting up on couches and beds. Meanwhile, the pups we were still raising for the service organization were not allowed on furniture—that was a stipulation of the training. In our case, age was also a factor that is hard to tease out, but the “only Hathaway on the couch” policy worked exceptionally well, in that it both provided an exceptionally quiet, calm dog with social status, but it also gave her a place to escape from the sharp puppy teeth and too much energy.
Wanda Jacobsen says
Yes, the dogs are allowed on the couch. Quinn the Irish terrier gives dirty looks and stares at anyone on HIS end of the couch. That portion of the couch is off limits to humans. Thankfully both dogs stay off the recliner unless Ben the little mix jumps up on Dad’s lap. Pleased to see in the photos I am not the only one who drapes the family room furniture in towels to protect the upholstery. Recently I gave away the “old” family room furniture which included a chair that Ben used to look out the window. When it was loaded into the truck, Ben walked up the ramp and sniffed the sofa and chair one more time before the door was closed. We all decided Ben was saying “goodbye” to HIS chair. So sad for the poor little dog.
Frances says
Very apposite discussion. I have a new pup in the house – 16 week old papillon Freddy, joining Sophy (papillon, 13), Poppy (toy poodle, 12.5, and coping with chronic liver failure), and Tilly-cat (18). It was clear to me before Fred came home that to be fair to everyone he was going to have to be raised very differently to the way I managed the older dogs when they were pups – this time using a pen and with much more emphasis on good manners around the older dogs. He did come up to bed with us from the first night, partly to comfort him and partly for my convenience as I find it so much easier to sleep that way, but learned to settle very quickly. Wriggling usually means a trip to the puppy pad in the bathroom is needed (Oh the bliss of a toy puppy and a pad in a warm bathroom at 3am of a winter’s night!), after which he is ready to sleep.
Rough housing with the adults against their wishes means it is time for a nap in his pen – his bed is only a few feet from the other dog beds, so he is still part of the family. “Freddy beddy!” means something really nice is there to find, and he then goes to sleep within minutes. The very first game he learned was taking turns for treats with the other animals, and all the extra treats that come with sharing in puppy training sessions are doing much to reconcile the others to having a baby in the house. So I would say privileges are fairly equally divided according to age (puppy gets more fun and games, while adults are promised long spells of peace, and all furniture out of Freddy’s reach is adult only) and preference (Sophy gets my lap first thing in the morning and her favourite bed during the day, while Poppy gets the space next to me in my chair during the day, for example).
Sophy is very much the matriarch, but will ask me to remove any of the others that have taken her bed. Poppy is a born follower, but would resource guard my lap if I let her, although she will budge off Sophy’s bed immediately I ask her. Freddy is still learning the ropes and testing the boundaries, so I am being very firm about not teasing the older dogs. If he is still being even occasionally obnoxious when he is big enough to jump up on the sofa it will be off limits to puppies – the adults need a safe space more than he needs somewhere else to bounce!
MinnesotaMary says
Gorgeous pictures! I think of this privilege thing in terms of hierarchy sometimes. My 7 year old dog sleeps in bed with me. My 3 year old dog sleeps in a crate in the bedroom next to my 1 year old foster dog (all are neutered male huskies). I tried allowing my 3 year old to sleep in the bed, but not only did he want to play, but when I was able to get him to sleep, he woke up in the wee hours and shredded the sheets (more than once). I gave up and he’s relegated to the crate for what might be for the remainder of his life. He has behavior like this everywhere else – there are many items I haven’t had the time or money to fix yet that he has destroyed. Just because he can. So, in terms of hierarchy, not only does my older dog sleep in my bed, but he’s the only one allowed on the couch (for many of the same reasons as the bed rule). He gets fed first. He gets treated first. Maybe I’m off base, but I want to support the best hierarchy in my household, and having older guy as top guy is my idea of best, because he makes good decisions. Puppy foster dog has accepted all the rules of sleeping in the crate, not being allowed on the couch and getting fed last with no complaints. He’s just happy to have a place where he’s fed, exercised and has social opportunities.
LisaW says
When Olive-the-Feral came to live with us, there was an immediate shift in our approach to “privileges.” Prior to OtF, our dogs were allowed on the furniture after a period of being asked first. Once they learned to be somewhat polite about the coveted off-the-floor spaces, they would either share them or move on if occupied. They seemed to work it out among themselves for the most part. One interesting pattern our middle pair of dogs worked out was that one got the bed with us until about 3am, and then she got down and the other one got the bed until we all got up. We never intervened; they seemed to figure out what worked for them.
Post OtF, all the rules had to change. She would literally pee or poop anywhere, anytime (in the middle of playing, in the middle of eating, in the middle of cuddling), and she was a frantic chewer. So, she had no furniture privileges until we could trust her to not ruin said furniture (she destroyed a couch in the two minutes I went into the kitchen and came back among other transgressions). However, the other two dogs had their routines and comfort levels and had the run of the house and furniture. I did feel it was a bit lopsided (unfair no, given Olive’s feralness) when we all went upstairs to bed and she had to stay downstairs, it tugged at my heart. It was hard to manage three dogs in varying stages of life; I will admit I may very well never do that again 🙂
Eventually, it was just Olive and Phoebe, and as Olive became more reliable and reasonable, she was allowed some furniture access. It was also then that she became much more possessive of the couch, the bed, toys, me, space in general. I saw an almost immediate connection. Eventually, her resource guarding simmered down to certain contexts (floppy toys, the bed), and we mostly managed it by allowing Phoebe to get on the bed first, then Olive could get on, etc., but I don’t think we were really successful in redirecting it entirely or showing Olive it was truly unnecessary. I think once she got some things to guard, she was not going to let them go.
The saddest part for me is we did reach some form of equilibrium although not perfect, and then Olive’s knee blew, and both dogs had bad hips, and couldn’t play together like before. I think through play they were working out some issues, and once that type of play ended, they never got back to where they were in terms of cooperation. I feel that’s the unfair part, and I do take responsibility for not getting them back together in that way.
How’s the mystery coming?
Joan says
I always love your column, but when you hit upon things I have been recently pondering, all the more wonderful. Saturday I picked up a 6 year old fully trained (in herding), not house broken BC male to add to my current household of a 5 year old female BC who can be a bit bitchy with other dogs. I knew I was in for LOTS of initial management, and going slowly. It never occurred to me the clock change that first night would have me living on both dog time and human time while giving everyone extra care and attention. Yesterday spending some alone time with the new guy in the house, I realized he has not had couch privileges. My current dog has Thank goodness for good weather because I am currently supervising all together time in the yard. One day a time. I’ve taken him to sheep and am thrilled. He is going to help me learn so much. He is adjusted very well and my current bitch is making slow progress. But here I am with him in a crate in one room and my current dog with complete house privileges choosing to be in the sun room, lying on the radiator cover in the sun watching the world. It takes thought not to feel it ‘unfair’ despite knowing that it is actually best for all, part of an intentional plan and equitable.
Tails Around the Ranch says
My tall OES walks up onto the sofa, but has NEVER ever even tried to get on the bed. Elsa my Standard Poodle will do both because she’s basically spring loaded though I’ve noticed she seems content laying on the dog bed next to my bed. Harmony with one dog on one side, one on the other. And a whole bed to myself. Paradise-no bed, quilt or pillow hogs.
You’re so right, anyone who owns a dog knows the return to standard time is not an extra hour of sleep, only an extra hour of grumbling by the upright about how stupid the whole semi-annual exercise is. And to think it returns again in a few short months (March 13). {grrrr}
Julie H. says
Maybe I’ve been lucky but I’ve never had an issue with one dog getting “privileges” the other doesn’t have (though it doesn’t happen that often). But I also try to choose dog personalities that are different. So if one dog is bossy, I try to choose another that is more laid back (“You want the toy I’m playing with? Yes, ma’am. I’ll just get a different one from the toy box.”) I do try to be aware of possible paybacks when one dog gets old/sick/infirm though. And I have to admit I am the most bossy member of the household. One of my favorite phrases is “Don’t even think about it!” (Am I a border collie? LOL)
Lisa R says
My (heart) dog was a Velcro dog. He was an Aussie mix, rescue, always went where I went in the house or yard, sweet, pretty clueless as to dog social rules, a bit nervous. I brought in a dog from the shelter where I volunteered (short time foster – Ha) – big tall strong boy and probably 5 years younger, 25 more pounds, more confident and much more strong than #1 dog. I insisted on ‘first in, first receiver’ of food, greetings, in or out the door, etc. #2 was amenable, but always was a bigger, stronger, more insistent presence. But I insisted things went #1, #2.
When I let go of my insistence of order of who got what when, everyone relaxed. Both were happier, calmer, even better together than before.
They got along famously – #2 would lie down and let #1 be above for their ‘face fight’ routine. Instead of the rough grab a leg or crash into style #2 had, he self-handicapped to just touch a leg or poke a nose at #1 when the older started to show a little age related fragility.
I always tried to be scrupulous to be fair in attention, treat, engagement with them both – except the order, which turned out to be a privilege the older, beta, #1 really didn’t feel comfy with, and the younger, stronger #2 didn’t abuse. I think not all ‘privileges’ are welcome.
#1 is long gone from the house, if not my heart. #2 is now close to 19 (yes, I know, but he had an unregistered chip implanted in March ’03!) and has reached his fragile time. And now the only order placed on him is done by the cats – he won’t move one off his beds and he won’t proceed down the hall if one is sitting in the way. I hope I’m lucky enough to have another dog come into my life half as good as either of these boys, and if I have two, I’ll be better at not deciding who gets what when, based on when they came in. Privileges all around – but not the ones they really don’t want.
Barb Stanek says
Interesting discussion. To me, “priviledge” and “fairness” are human concepts. I don’t think that dogs even think about life in those terms. In my experience with dogs is that each individual has a list of criteria for his or her own survival and enjoyment. Admittedly I’ve never interviewed dogs to ask if these terms make sense to them, and my sample is small, the four Portuguese Water Dogs that I’ve had. (I also had a mixed breed that took me right down the rabbit hole of dog devotion, but I was too new to dogs to really analyze his behavior.)
Three of my four dogs did not get on the couch. Even if invited, they would get on the couch and shortly get off. My fourth dog lives on the couch and seemingly loves it there. When I had dog 3 and 4 together, dog 3 never seemed to feel slighted about his position in relation to the couch. He seemingly stayed happily on the floor.
All of my dogs have had a tendency to want to go out of the front door at a high rate of speed whether I’m there or not. They have all had to learn that this is not good door behavior for the human involved. Three dogs learned this willingly and easily. The fourth dog, if I wasn’t vigilent, would rush the door until the day he died!
Needless to say, door rushing was not conducive to my well-being! So I did treat dog 4 differently from the other three. In my opinion, my behavior was not being unfair to the dog who needed to be reminded not to rush the door.
So that’s my brief take on the discussion. Looking forward to hearing others’ opinions.
Kay Havens says
When I had multiple Labs in the house we always had an “order” of doing things. Everyone had to wait at the door and went out by order of age. Their food bowls were put down in the same order with all the dogs had to wait to eat til the last was put down. Training was done by order too… the older dogs don’t work as much but they get to go first while a younger dog “honors”. For all the dialog about dogs wanting to be “top dog” I have not found that to be the case. I find that dogs feel secure in having “a Place” in the order and knowing it. Guest dogs btw go last. Most learn the process in less than a day. Visiting dogs catch on fast and appreciate the process in quick order.
Kat says
I’ve only got one dog at the moment but I’m fascinated by the interactions between him and the two younger cats. ANY time I’m petting D’Artagnan Furbonnaci comes running to stand on the arm of the chair and alternately demand I pet him too and bury his head in D’Artagnan’s fur. That one looks like simple jealousy he can’t bear to be left out when there’s petting going on.
Lately D’Artagnan has been chasing Catpurrnicus a bit. He does it with every indication that he’s playing. I’m not sure yet whether Catpurrnicus also thinks it’s play so I’m watching closely but there are many places the cat can retreat that the giant dog cannot fit so I’m not terribly concerned about it. What fascinates me though is that when D’Artagnan is standing still and getting petting or just standing around Catpurrnicus will strut up to him holding his tail straight up and march back and forth beneath D’Artagnan. It’s like he’s proving that he’s still the boss and ‘he ain’t afraid of no dog.’ The cats have always been comfortable walking beneath the dog as if he’s a big furry tunnel if he’s between them and their destination but Catpurrnicus’ behavior is more than just trusting he’s safe and taking the shortest route. He really looks like he’s asserting someething about their relationship.
Watching my critters interact is one of my great joys. They have such interesting relationships.
Gayla says
Some people accept every gift as a blessing, with no expectations of bigger, better, MORE! and some people’s needs are bottomless… Some will try to take a mile for every inch you give them. I think ‘people’ and ‘dogs’ are interchangeable in that sentence.
I don’t think always fair is realistic. When life’s not fair, it’s just a shame we can’t explain it to them.
Gale Marple says
In my opinion, “Fair” is not necessarily the same as “Identical”. This is true with children, adults and dogs. From your article and the answers of a couple of others, seems like the dogs are capable of understanding this.
Thanks for the great article.
Jenny Haskins says
Our dogs are not permitted on the furniture. They are large and hairy and mostly outside dogs. They each have their own ‘lily pads’ on the TV room floor.
If I had the money (and agreement from spouse) I would build a dogs’ sitting room for them.
I have basically solved ‘jealousy problems’ by sending the aggressor away from me. If two dogs are involved, then they BOTH get sent away.
as for meal times, they are fed in order so the would-be thief finishes last. Then she goes to check the others’ now empty dishes.
Jenny Haskins says
Ps. Each of my dogs gets one-on-one time with me. That means ‘games’ do not involve more than one of my dogs.
I walk them singly too, though now my dog-walking friend is dogless, she walks Mad Mille for me, while I walk Sallee it has worked out really well –Sallee is a little over protective of me, so she has now learned that walking with Millie doesn’t mean a don’t love her any more 🙁
Rachel Lachow says
Everyone has couch privileges in my house now, but my recently departed Standard Poodle did not and neither did a male Pharaoh hound from the past. It’s the dogs’ behavior that creates the rules. The dogs who growled at other dogs when they approached me on the couch, didn’t get to lay there. I feel that way about all privileges: anything that causes a dog to guard and growl is usually not allowed.
lak says
I believe that privileges do affect dogs. I have seen some people favor one dog over the other by allowing certain behaviors in dog A but not dog B, or giving more attention to dog A over dog B and I could swear dog B looked a little dejected, could just be my interpretation though. I do know that jealousy does exist, I had a family member and her dog stop by, just a lovely doodle dog of some kind, at any rate my dog would not allow this dog to even get by its own owner, and toys my dog had never shown the least interest in, literally untouched since purchase for over a year suddenly were desirable after the visiting dog showed interest. No aggression, but my dog would not let this dog have any toys. If my dog were a child people would have said she was selfish and unable to share…and they would have been right. However, I did send the usually unused toy home with the visiting dog by sneaking it to my sister in law and received a lovely photo of her dog carrying it around in its mouth! ha
Sarah Johnson says
I think YES Maggie was responding to Skip horning in and you telling him to chill a bit. My 3 dogs do quite a bit of this status jockeying and give so many little gestures to each other that often end up in a game of wrestle. If we could hear them laugh, if we had slow-motion vision to see all that they say to each other– wow!! I think they get a kick out of it and find a lot of it amusing (not all the time!). And yes there is a lot of micromanaging on our parts due to one of our dogs being a hothead. But he wants to be good, that is our mantra 🙂 Thanks for your post, it is our lives!!
Maria says
I’m convinced my dog acts differently when she sees other dogs off leash, when she is on leash. She pulls more insistently for a minute or two (pulling is allowed on our hikes, but she rarely pulls like a freight train), and tends to zigzag more than normal. She’s been off leash in fenced areas with me, and came from a rural area, where I suspect she mostly walk off leash.
I don’t know if this is jealously, but maybe envy?
Lisa Volker says
Clarisse is much smaller than my other collies Milo and Macduff, so she became the first dog to show any interest in the couch. When she first lay on it, Macduff was disapproving of this breach of protocol, but soon decided it was just something that “the baby” was allowed to do and since it didn’t interfere with his status as leader of the group, he soon ignored her. Milo didn’t care at all. But then this spring Barnaby joined us, and he and Clarisse are the same size and age. For weeks he watched Clarisse get on the couch with me. Then one day, he came and very politely indicated that he’d like to try lying on the couch. I gave him permission and Clarisse was APPALLED. You’d think I’d committed a major crime. She sulked for two days–wouldn’t eat, wouldn’t get on the couch with me, wouldn’t play with Barnaby. She was quite the drama queen! We reassured her that she was still the baby and made a fuss over her, and she eventually grudgingly allowed Barnaby on the couch. Now I often find them sitting there together, but when the initial drama began, I was afraid that I’d forever upset the pecking order and permanently wrecked Clarisse. She did become more assertive with Barnaby–less of a pal and more like a bossy big sister–and he put up with it for a while, but now they’re just pals. I swear Macduff and Milo viewed the entire incident with wry amusement: “Silly kids!”
Pam Evans says
Knowing full well that our domestic dogs aren’t small wolves, but when you look at pack hierarchy, there are clearly privileges allotted to some individuals and not others. I’ve always had a hard time watching nature shows on wolf packs because of this. I’ve always felt bad for the lower ranking individuals. But I think our sense of fairness is a human trait not shared in other species. Apes, horses, cats, to name a few demonstrate this behavior and the less fortunate individuals seem to accept their lot. I’m paraphrasing a William Hazlitt quote here: man is the only species that both laughs and weeps; he is the only animal that sees the difference between the way things are and what they ought to be.
Stefanie Davis says
I have a 6yr old GSD/pittie mix (female) and 11yr old Schnoodle (male). The female is quick to initiate aggression toward the male but I think the male gives a low key warning to her and that triggers her reaction as if she’s defending herself. It usually happens when she’s being rude or pushy, which is just her. He’s much more calm.
Anyway, we used to have a nice habit where one would lie on either side of me in bed upon wakening. The male would jump on the bed as he normally sleeps on the floor. I would scratch bellies and have some snuggle time. Well one morning she made a sneaky move toward him with what seemed like malicious intent. They began to fight right on top of me. Since then the male dog will not come on the bed. Sometimes he comes on the couch even if she’s on the couch (opposite end) but you better believe I keep my eye on her regardless of where she is!
Lesley Dipple says
I adopted a 9 year old male Vizsla earlier this year, an ex stud dog, and he’s been really good, great with my cats and o.k. with my GSD but he’s a slammer too and despite my GSD weighing 10kg more he frequently knocks her sideways.
My GSD has always been allowed on the sofa by invitation but there isn’t room for another dog, frequently isn’t room for me if the cats get in first, so Ziggy the Vizsla has a comfy bed next to the radiator. A couple of days ago Hattie GSD got off the sofa for a drink and Ziggy sneaked up and while I don’t mind him up there I wouldn’t let him take Hattie’s seat.
Another reason I’m not keen on letting him up is that my last Vizsla was very possessive over privileges and would growl at my other dogs and cats if they tried to sit on the sofa if he was already in possession and although Ziggy might be fine I won’t take the risk of either my cats or Hattie being injured.
Irene Stoller says
This isn’t about couch privileges per se but a different kind of privilege. Instead it’s a sad story about roughhousing which is now simply not allowed among our dogs. We had a youngish border collie (Quin)–the very best dog I ever had. We got a new border pup, Moss. He’s a big guy who loved to play rough, particularly the body slam, when he was younger. We did correct him for it when we were together but in the mornings we would let them both out to potty. One morning Quin limped to the front window. We brought him right in and initially thought he hurt a leg. Within five minutes he was paralyzed below his shoulders. Long story short: immediate trip to the vet and then a specialist where he was diagnosed with spinal damage over several vertebrae and a 50/50 chance of recovery. Despite extended therapy, dog wheelchair, acupuncture and almost everything else he never recovered. After several years of miniscule improvement and a heartbreakingly positive attitude, he declined and we had to put Quin to sleep. His breeder was kind but clear: she doesn’t allow that kind of play with body slamming, period.
Team Unicorn says
The cats and the puppy are all treated differently. They have different personalities, different skill levels, and frankly different obedience skills. I wish I could treat them “equal” but I’m responsible for their safety as well as the safety of my furniture. I wish I didn’t let the cats on the table but they need a high place to get away from the puppy. I’m hoping the puppy loses interest in them soon but he’s only 10 months old and we’re working on this. The puppy may want to jump on the table and surf but he’s not allowed to. Nobody is allowed on the counter but I’d rather we didn’t have to let kitties on the tables.
I wish my puppy was like my ‘other dogs’ but I guess he’s growing neurons in his brain, his personality is different (for now), and he needs time to age and slow down! Each day is a new day but only recently is he allowed on the couch and that’s because he’s finally stopped digging on it. Only recently does he have a soft bed in his crate because he would destroy those too. He has to be in the crate (not the bed!) to keep the cats safe. Maybe some day things will be different but for now, we’re all growing neurons and learning to cope.
Jen says
I definitely feel like this plays a role. One of my dogs is very subtle in how assertive he is with attention and working my other dog. When I realized this, I started carving out “privileges” for my less assertive dog. He has blossomed. Similar to your story, yesterday I wondered if I should intervene because he was so persistent in trying to initiate play with my more assertive dog!
Percy Jones says
Lots for me to think about here. 26 years with border collies, 8 adults and 7 puppies that left at 7-11 weeks. And I never had the type of problem you are describing until last year with the puppy I kept and his sire. Puppy (intact) just turned three, and all of a sudden he became growly and frightening with his sire at night when we went to bed. Never his dam (there are only the 3 of them now). It seemed to me to be possession of me, because it only happened when puppy was curled next to me. My solution has been to alternately crate each male dog on odd/even days. No further issue.
My dogs have all been allowed on bed, once they could get there on their own power. Sos this took 2.5 years to show up. And, then as now, during the rest of the day, puppy loves nothing more than playing with, tugging with and running with sire. So I think that my analysis that I am the cause is correct. What I wonder about is if darkness has anything to do with it.
Thanks for being so thoughtful.
Trisha says
Irene, what a sad story, I am so sorry.
Carole says
None of my dogs (40, 60, and 150 lbs.) have ever been allowed on the furniture. The two males (smallest and largest) sleep on their beds in my bedroom, and Dusty sleeps in her crate since she cannot be trusted to wake me if she has to go out during the night. She never seemed to find this arrangement unfair. It is simply how it’s been since she came to us as a foster three years ago. Two weeks ago I adopted Baxter, a ten year old blind Shih Tzu, from a sorry situation where he was largely ignored and clearly neglected. From the first day Baxter has been accorded privileges such as sharing my recliner in the evenings and sleeping on my bed. None of the other three complained… in fact they all surprised me with how easily they accepted this little man into our lives. They are quite careful with him, avoiding bumping into him and even getting out of his way when he is on a collision course with one of them as he hesitantly maps out his new home. I don’t believe dogs know “fair”, but they certainly seem to know compassion and empathy. {How is the book coming?}
Jeana says
I feel like I need to keep things equal in my four dog house because otherwise it seems that resource guarding ensues. Either staking claim on the couch, or of me, if I don’t make it clear that all get the same privileges, and same amount of love. Not sure I am correct , but it does seems to work out this way.
Robin Budd says
Love this topic. We only have one dog, but try to treat him fairly. If we get to eat, so does he. Not the same food, and he doesn’t have to get as much. But if we’re snacking, he at least gets a couple treats. And he doesn’t beg, has never counter-surfed, and will leave an unattended plate of food untouched. We didn’t have to train him to do this. I can’t prove this is due to his being treated “fairly”, but maybe?
Wendy says
I found your account of Maggie & Skip’s couch interactions very interesting.
I observed the reverse with a 6-7 mo foster pup who did not understand boundaries. The more attention & privileges he received the pushier he became with my 3yo.
Also my 3yo Male Samoyed usually does not like being on the couch but with this pushy pup around who had mild separation anxiety, he would make a point of joining me on the couch.