This is a tough one to write. As regular readers know, I primarily got Hope as a playmate for Willie, my turned-around crazy dog who took three years of intense work to deal with his pathological fear-based aggression to other dogs, his episodes of all-out rage, his extreme sound sensitivity, his dysfunctional gut, etc etc etc. And inside all that was one of the sweetest dogs I’d ever met, and that is the dog you’d meet if you came to the farm today–a sweet, people-loving healthy dog who loves his dog buddies and goes all happy-faced and loose bodied when he sees an unfamiliar dog approaching him. I’d never take him to a dog park, and he becomes a nervous wreck if a large dog he’s never met comes into the house, but with a little easy management he is a wonderful dog, and I love him now like life itself.
My dear Lassie-girl, the one who died in January, was Willie’s best friend, and they played together up to a few days before she died. Soon after she did, I started looking for another dog, primarily a play mate for Willie. I surfed on rescue sites for months, any breed would do, never quite finding what looked like the right dog, and then heard about a litter of BC’s from a great breeding with a super track record. That’s where Hope came from, and he indeed is a super dog. He is the smartest Border Collie I’ve ever had, and I don’t need to explain to any of you what that means. He is so fun to train it’s addictive. I could happily quit all my jobs, including this blog, and spend the next few years training Hope. He’d be doing rocket science by the time he turned five. I’ve rarely had this much fun training a dog, and especially now that we’re over the worst of the early puppy stages (including having to pee every eight minutes), he is a joy.
He’s also competitive, and that has become the basis of his relationship with Willie. As Hope matures, Willie has stopped greeting him when we come downstairs in the morning. They have stopped playing tug games, I suspect because they were never games to Hope. He’d work his way up the toy until he was an inch from Willie’s mouth and do all he could to get the toy and run away with it. Unlike other dogs, he seemed serious about it from the first time he played. Not so some other dogs: I have a video of Lassie playing tug with Willie when he was a puppy, and she continually gave it back to him if she pulled it out of his mouth. But at nine weeks of age Hope wanted the toy, period. Willie and Hope don’t play much wrestle play anymore either. They do on occasion, but it’s much less frequent and doesn’t last very long. Some of this could be related to Hope’s age, he is getting older after all, but he’s only 5 months old, not exactly in his dotage.
Hope is not the only problem. Willie, who wasn’t able to play with dogs outside of the house until he was almost one and a half, turns out to be no fun to play with outside if you are a young puppy. As the strongest eyed BC I’ve ever had, Willie loves to herd other dogs, running around to the front of their forward motion and stopping them by diving in and either nipping or just plowing into them. I hadn’t seen too that much of this until I got the pup, because usually Willie has played with older dogs who are as fast as he is. Wilie plays “let’s race!” and the dogs run shoulder to shoulder, sometimes I swear slowing down and then speeding up on purpose to keep the game going. However, he has tried herding other dogs before. Once he tried herding one of his BFF’s, Mishka the Dobbie bitch, who, with the power and confidence of a canine Serena Williams, told him in no uncertain terms never to do that again. He got all flat-eared and grinny-faced after she disciplined him and he got the message. He’s never done it to one of his other friends, a year-old BC, who is as fast as he is and who loves to play “Let’s be race horses!” along with Willie. But Hope is just a puppy, and can’t possibly keep up with Willie, so sometimes they play well outside, Hope running after Willie or Willie running circles around Hope, and sometimes, more and more often it seems, I have to call off Willie because it starts to look more like harassment than play.
Willie also seems to have a V on his forehead for Victim. When Hope was younger, Willie never corrected him for the usual things that rude, young puppies get disciplined for by older dogs. Instead, Willie would hang his head and look oppressed, or look as though nothing had happened while I was thinking “Willie! Stand up for yourself!”
And so, here I am, in the process of deciding whether Hope is the right dog for Willie. He is a great dog, but I am not looking for “a dog.” I’m looking for a friend for Willie, and although you can treat and manage a multitude of behavioral problems, you can’t force a friendship if it’s not there inherently. {Added later today: I don’t need them to be best friends, but Hope’s competitiveness and adult male behavior as a young pup might be a red flag that could be some serious problems between him and Willie down the road.} My loyalties have to first be to Willie, and I have to do what I think is best for him. Nothing would make me happier if I decide that Hope is the right match. Hope is smart and fun and probably will be brilliant on sheep and damn it, has gotten drop-dead gorgeous as he’s grown up. He is not perfect: he is a resource guarder (he is already 50% better, yes I think there’s a genetic basis but I totally disagree with some who say it can’t be treated), he’s a tad pushy (barks for attention, jumps up and slams against you) but no pup is perfect and all of his ‘issues’ are things I not only know how to treat or manage, I enjoy doing it. The problem is that this isn’t a training issue; I wish it was because then I could better deal with it. The fact is, no one can make two dogs into friends if they don’t want to be, any more than you can force two people to love living together. {Again, they don’t need to be best friends, but I’ve seen dogs living in constant states of vigilance and anxiety and that’s not a life that is good for anyone.}
Cross your paws for us. I haven’t decided what is best yet, but thought I should let you know where things stand. This issue does bring up an interesting question related to all of us: that of friendship between dogs. I’d love to hear from you about the dogs in your life who have either become best friends, or not… and why. I think the issue of relationships between dogs is often not addressed at the right level: we talk about resource guarding or appropriate play, but what about true friendship? Camille Ward’s research on play found that as dogs mature they seek out the same play partners more and more, and she suggested we need to think more about whether our dogs need BFFs of their own species. Your thoughts?
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Sad news from last night. We lost another lamb to a new worm in the area that is resistant to worming medicine. It was our best lamb, a ram lamb I kept as a potential breeder. He looked fine two days ago, and then I found him dead last night. I talked to my vet and he said that 3 other farms in the area have been losing lambs right and left; one farm lost 20 lambs before they could blink. I’ll be trying a new medicine tomorrow after the sheep are kept off food for 12 hours (we’ve learned that worming meds work best on an empty stomach), so tomorrow before I fly out Jim and I will be cowboying sheep in the barn at dark-thirty in the morning. (And thanks friend Kathy for helping with the dead lamb. Never a fun way to spend an evening.)
Happier news: here’s Hope playing with a new friend, a four month old BC mix pup who came over and played non-stop for almost an hour and a half. Hope played beautifully with him… he always does with other dogs it seems. The younger pup was always on top by the way, and look at that tail!
Taryn says
The way you just described Hope and Willie’s relationship is very similar to the way I could describe what goes on between my two Cardigan Corgis. The day I brought home Jimmy (at 11 weeks), he marched into the back yard, saw Wilson (4 at the time) had a stick, ran over and took it. Wilson did nothing, just let him have it. This was how it started and it is to this day. If Wilson has it, Jimmy must take it. (And Jimmy never resource guards anything from the humans) And Wilson never stands up for himself. They do wrestle and play herding games, but Jimmy is a very rough player, so Wilson is often intimidated. We got Jimmy so Wilson would have a friend (and as an agility dog for me, he does have wonderful drive!) and I have often felt guilty that they aren’t the best of friends, and that Jimmy DEMANDS all of the attention. But the other day I saw a side of Wilson that touched me (and, yes, I probably anthropomorphised it). I was at the vets office with both dogs. Each one was going to “the back” for a blood draw without me. Wilson went first, scared to death, looking back at me. A couple of minutes later he trots out, relieved, knowing his part was done. The tech then takes Jimmy’s leash and leads him back. Wilson got very upset, strained at his leash to try and get to Jimmy, danced around and pulled to get back there. He was scared enough they nearly had to drag him back there just a few minutes before, but now he was straining to go in the back to get to Jimmy. When Jimmy came back out a moment later, Wilson was all waggy and happy to see him. So, while it seems to me they have their issues, it also seems they have a bond as well.
AL says
I guess I would suggest that perhaps friendships between dogs can take different forms just as they can with people. I don’t think that it is necessarily all about play. Willie’s friendship with Hope need not look like his friendship with Lassie – afterall, in his relationship with Lassie, he was always going to be the puppy, and with Hope he has a different role to play in the relationship. When we first went from a one-dog household to a two dog household, the two dogs played with each other the first couple of weeks, but their play styles just never really matched up. For the next 10 years, they were best friends and never had a bad word to say to each other, but they virtually never played with each other (although both of them would play well with other dogs.) It just wasn’t the kind of relationship that they had, and they figured it out and were totally comfortable with it.
Katrin says
I don’t understand this idea and need to get another dog for your current dog. I currently have 3 dogs. I did not bring any of them into my life because I wanted my other dogs to be happy. All 3 dogs easily coexist together but they aren’t “playmates.” They have a strong desire to play with ME, not with each other. And that is the way I prefer it. It means we don’t have rough housing in the house all the time. It means when we go out in the yard they will play with me with a toy as opposed to focusing on each other. It makes training them easy even in the face of other dogs around us in a new environment. They want to be around, work with and play games with ME. That is why I get and add dogs into my life, so I can have an individual and pleasant relationship with each dog, not so that they can make each other happy.
Margaret says
Oh, that
Sherry says
Hi–could you clarify for us here, in your wonderful blog, Patricia, why Willie is in dire need of a best friend?
What happens if you get a new dog for Willie, and it still doesn’t turn out to be the right dog?
Amy says
I have a pem welsh corgi named Winnie. She is my pal in every way – frequently by my side at the home and away offices. She is 1.5 years old and looking like a beautiful mature little lady. I’m starting to do some agility training with her just to keep us both happy and active but I’ve often wondered about getting a second dog so she had a furry friend of her own. Her best dog-pal (an 80 lbs. Golden) just moved out of state and we haven’t been to the dog parks as often as before.
Would I be wrong to think that cruzing for an older rescue dog with a personality that I could easily identify would be a safer match than a puppy? What do you look for when adding another personality to the house?
I do hope things work out with Hope. I’ll be thinking about you guys.
Sarah says
I’ve never gotten a dog to be a friend to the dog I have, I’ve gotten my dogs because I wanted another myself. That said, all my dogs have always gotten along, eventually if not at first. When I got my first SBT, Elmo, he seemed perfectly happy as an only dog, then I was offered a bitch pup, who I took, and named Tully. She adored Elmo from the start, he seemed not so sure. Tully generally managed to have everything that Elmo might want. If I was throwing a ball for Elmo, Tully would latch onto his collar to avoid being left behind. If I gave them each a chewy, Tully would act like her smaller chewy was the most exciting thing on the planet, until Elmo tried to take it from her, then she’d grab his abandoned, larger chewy.
Elmo seemed less than fond of her, but tolerant. Then I took him out of town, leaving Tully in a boarding kennel. When we got home, Elmo searched the house for her, then stood staring out the window. When I brought her home the next day, he rushed up to greet her. (she was having nothing to do with either of us, she was mad about the boarding kennel)
For 8 years (until he died), he never actually acted like he was doing anything but tolerate her, but if they were separated for any length of time, he’d look for her and not be happy until they were reunited.
Tully dealt fine with Elmo’s passing, btw. Over the years, she gradually transferred more of her affection to me, and I really think she’d be fine with just the 2 of us, but she also does have her daughter and now her bratty grandson around for canine company.
hornblower says
I don’t think dogs need to LIVE with a BFF but it’s nice if they have one & can see each other to play once in a while.
I’ve fostered dogs whom my malxgsd Daiy seems to have been much more compatible with than Darwin, the field English Setter that I ended up adopting as my 2nd dog. Darwin doesn’t really know how to play with her, he’s a bit of a nervy guy & a total mama’s boy. She’s all rough & tumble & bared teeth & lots of snarly noises – it took him almost a year to even try playing with her. While I might WISH that they played more with each other, all I look for is happy co-existence & that’s all here. They don’t have to LOVE each other, they just have to LIKE each other & we have that in spades.
They can each get their play requirements met through visiting with other dogs. And yeah, Daisy does have a BFF & it’s another feisty female who likes to play rough with her. They apparently speak the same language. 🙂
I have to wonder Trish whether you’re asking too much of this pup. I think you’d have to ask yourself, if you HAD to choose, which would you want more: a dog that would be a good buddy to Willie, or a dog that would allow you to engage your passion for working stock. It was always pretty unlikely that you’d get a perfect match for both criteria, wasn’t it? So I guess the Q is which was more important?
I don’t think that Will not having a super play buddy is such a horrible thing & if it makes you happy to have a dog you can have such fun training, why not? Just take the time to have Willie meet up regularly with some friends.
BTW – I homeschool my kids & the issue of how often kids need to be with their friends is hashed around a lot in this community. My answer is that it’s less than we think they need. 🙂
trisha says
To Katrina and Sherry: Perfectly reasonable questions about why does Willie need another dog in his life. A couple of points, in answer:
1) We’re all different, and although I want my dogs primary relationship to be with me, Willie loves playing with other dogs, grew up with other dogs, and it seems like a good thing for him to have a playmate for his own sake. Just my own preference.
2) And, if not more importantly, Willie is a young dog of an active breed, and after Lassie died it was difficult for me to keep him as exercised as he needs to be. There’s nothing like playing with another dog, along with playing with me and working sheep at other times, to keep him exercised. Keep in mind that this is the dog I can’t play fetch with because of his shoulder. I do lots with Willie, but I also work lots of 10 hour days….
3) Because of Willie’s history with other dogs, I was concerned about bringing another dog into the house if Willie had been the only dog living there for too long. I knew that I would eventually want another dog (3 is the number I have envisioned for now), and I didn’t want Willie to go too long as “the only dog.” I suspected it would make bringing in another dog more difficult. Having Hope at the farm has been great in many ways for Willie, he’s always been most nervous about other dogs in the house, and this has helped him tremendously in that regard.
4) Although I said I wanted another dog for Willie, I wanted one for me too. I haven’t had just one dog for I can’t remember how long, and it felt so strange at first. So, Hope was also “for me,” but fitting in with Willie was very high on the priority list.
And to Al, great point about relationships not being all about play. I agree completely. That’s why it bothers me that Willie and Hope are no longer greeting each after they’ve been apart… doesn’t seem right that they do so less and less.
To Amy: It is sooo hard (obviously!) to know what would be the best match for your pup. I am not alone in believing that you can never be sure until you have tried. An older dog is indeed often a better risk, simply because you know a bit more about who that dog is going to become once it is an adult. Willie seemed to best love small, submissive males, which is partly why I brought in a puppy, but if it doesn’t work out, I will probably bring in an older dog. Can you try out some other dogs as an experiment? Foster? Borrow? 🙂
Pike says
I am hoping (if that is the right word to use here) that you might be a tad bit too hard on yourself and maybe prone to overanalyzing Hope’s and Willie’s relationship? Maybe that special friendship is more of an unexpected bonus if it happens than the norm between the dogs of our households? As long as they are not distressed by each others presence, of course. Then things become really, really tricky…
Then 13 year old Portuguese Water Dog Sparky bit then 6 mo. old Hound mix Ronja twice in the first week when she joined the household. The first time, she picked up one of his toys in the yard and he ran 30 ft to get her. The second time, he had rolled on his back in the grass and she thought that it was a play invitation. Wrong again. Since then they get along fine without being best friends. She adores him and also walks all over him and steals the toys from underneath him – and he mostly ignores her and once in a great while, plays for a moment. I am sure though, that they are quite comfortable with each other.
Sparky’s best four legged friend is Gremmi, my cat and Ronja’s best friend is Denali a Shepherd mix. When he visits, he has to be kept apart from Sparky who flat out hates his guts. They have never liked each other and it is worse now that Denali has finally figured out that he is twice as big as Sparky and doesn’t back down anymore.
Knowing that Sparky won’t live much longer (he is 16 now and has several health issues) I have – guiltily – thought about the potential future dog. Sometimes, I think Ronja with her dog fear-aggression might just be better off being a single dog – then I am convinced that she would love to have another dog around. And so would I! In that case, my theoretical preference would be to have another female – but one look at Ronja reminds me that the only relatively safe option will be to get a male dog. Ah well, we will deal with it when the time comes.
In the meantime, I keep my fingers crossed that Willie and Hope will work out their relationship peacefully and that they can be comfortable housemates if not best friends.
Ellen Pepin says
Oh! all of this story sounds familiar. Our first dog was a one year old female shepherd/terrier mix we got from a shelter. Dr. Pamela Reid, who evaluated her behavior, thought she was part Pit Bull. Nikki trusted me from the first day, but it took a couple of weeks before she was comfortable with my husband, Joe. She gradually learned to trust a few other people. She mostly barked and lunged. Her relationships with other dogs were even worse. The first three seconds went well, but then the teeth came out. When she was about 7, she was learning to accept other dogs so we considered getting a second dog. We chose a shepherd/Rottweiler/boxer and ? mix named Dakota. He loves just about all dogs and people. At first he was quite submissive to Nikki, who truly wanted to be queen. Gradually, he began to push back; he was almost twice her size. When they played, it quickly got rough, but Nikki held up well. I knew they were never going to be best friends, but they did play sometimes. Nikki was twelve when we had to put her down because of cancer. Dakota seemed to be lonely. All he wanted to do was lie on the floor. So, we got Tess, a beautiful white collie, from a rescue group.
Dakota, who gets along with most dogs, has his trouble with Tess. She also gets along with most other dogs, but she is not fond of Dakota. He still wants to be king like he was for over a year. Tess will have none of it. Dakota is a resource guarder around food. If he thinks she is too close, he will go after her. She, however, likes her personal space. If he gets close, she growls and shows teeth. As a result, we keep them physically separated at meal time. Most of the time, they ignore each other.
I love both of these dogs, but I know they will never be buddies. They can get along with each other most of the time, but we have to monitor their interactions. The funny part is that when Tess is away, when she is groomed, he seems to look for her. She has done the same, but only once.
I surely hope that you keep Hope even though he will probably not be buddies with Willie.
Another Kate says
I wonder if there isn’t an adult dog out there for Will (and Hope, perhaps too) to be friends with. Many rescues do allow you to meet a bunch of other dogs. You’d just have to make sure you manage Willie well that day, since it always felt chaotic when we’d have an adopter come up with with their pooches and they didn’t have a choice already in mind. I’ve seen a lot of “adopters come and meet four dogs” kind of days, and usually a dog not on the original list is the one who goes home. However, most times, a good choice was made.
I do hesitate on the “just get another dog to solve the problem,” but if you choose right, I think you might find a dog in need of a great home and one who will pair well with both boys.
Susan says
Your first paragraph describes many of Oscar’s attributes. He loves his buddies but freaks out about the unknown big dogs who lurk in his neighborhood. I know he needs his BFF’s, and his time with them is too limited. I love to see him play and have fun, and I feel guilty we can’t faithfully introduce more friends…since he turns into a big goober. I want to get a pal for him one day, but I do worry I would be in the same position as you are now. My loyalty would also be to him and to finding a good pal…while finding another companion for my husband and me.
I hope their relationship continues to develop on an agreeable course for everyone.
Splash's mom says
I have almost the identical situation! I’m glad you expressed some of my worries and fears. I have a 7 year old male Lab, a 6 year old female Lab, and a working line real deal 18 month old BC. At the beginning the BC and the male Lab were great friends, wrestling and tussling every night. At about 8 months, my little BC started showing signs of resource guarding (mainly me). That’s when they stopped being friends. The Lab actually started hiding under the kitchen table. I thought about this for a while. Then I started reinforcing every positive interaction, and giving Mr. BC time-outs when he eyes either Lab. The problem is, the Labs are so easy going, nothing really ever rocks their world, so I have to really watch every second.
With constant vigilance over the past 9 months, the situation has eased enough that the older Lab will now play a little with the BC, mostly chase games. I am careful to never introduce high value activities or resources unless the dogs have been “divided and conquered”. They will never truly be buddies, but oddly, the girl has stepped in as mediator, calming influence, and playmate for both dogs. Mind you, she does not really like to play, she just likes to eat and lay in the sun. So, this is not at all what I would have predicted.
Like Hope, my young collie is lovely with other dogs. He is particularly good with little dogs, and is reasonably non-reactive in agility group classes. So, the problem is with the home group living situation.
On the advice of a friend who has high drive Tervs, I train on the agility equipment in the yard with the Labs present. Once he was able to handle that, I added in a stay on the table for the BC while fir the girl then later on the boy Lab got heeled around. We are working up to a BC stay while Labs get to jump.
It makes for an uncomfortable existence. Like you, I wonder if having the young dog is good or bad for the older one. And like you, I really got him to be my working dog, though in my case that’s agility. He has a purpose in life, and I suppose my job is to teach him to be a better housemate?
I rarely comment here, but your post today hit very close to home. I completely understand everything you are going through! I never thought I would have this problem, but then again, I’ve only had Labs until now, and that’s the breed that defines “easy does it”. Good luck and take care.
Sherry says
Thanks for your response, Trisha. Now I understand–I was wondering “doesn’t Willie already get tons of exercise everyday herding and training with you?” but you are busy–it makes sense to want to get him a playmate.
Well, with our own dogs–who we haven’t haven’t had that long actually, this is our experience:
1. we acquired the anxious, somewhat fearful male first from a rescue. he’s a herding-type mix, very intense, sweet towards his humans, but a very “button-my-shirt-all-the-way-to-the-top” little guy.
2. the second one was a younger, smaller female. it took them about three months before they started playing more regularly, and only after the male got more food and less exercise (I think he was too concerned about food and pretty tired everyday from our outings to really play all that much)
3. the third one is larger and younger, bouncier and more social than both of them. he has “relaxed doggy language”. he plays very well with the female, despite the size difference, probably because they are both younger and similar in age. Our anxious little guy also plays with him very well–but he’s very intense, and a lot of the time he’s more interested in guarding/working/chasing. When they play sometimes the anxious one starts spinning out of control and we have to make sure it doesn’t get out of hand.
We’ve only had them for a few months, so we’re waiting to see how their relationships develop, or not. It would be interesting to throw one more dog into the mix, one that our anxious little guy has a similar play style with (herding), but three’s the limit for us financially (and city code probably wouldn’t allow it).
On our website there is a video of the three of them running around (one at the bottom.) I apologize in advance for the soundtrack.
http://blackblackbrown.wordpress.com/2010/08/09/chaos/
Anyways, love your blog. I am sure everything will work out fine for you and Willie and Hope!
Sabrina says
Hi! I’m certainly no expert and much of what I have learned has been from reading your books, but I wonder if while they have grown apart and this stage, they may grow closer with time? First, although 5 months is still young, Hope is probably starting into the pesky teenage period and it would be natural for Willie to tire of his antics.
The other thing I wonder is whether Willie has been placed into the role of “leader” by virtue of his age and size and is uncomfortable in this role. You describe his close relationship with Lassie but how much of this was because was a calm dog playing a leadership role in their relationship? I wonder if Hope is wanting to be in the leadership role but due to his size and age he isn’t able to take this yet? Perhaps with time he will become the leader and Willie will be able to relax more in the follower role.
Forgive my definitions if I’m using the wrong words to describe the dog relationships–I can’t remember how you defined it in your books.
I know that if you were to not keep Hope, the earlier the decision is made, the easier for all involved, but perhaps time will cure some of these issues
Claire says
I have 3 dogs.. Two older ones about 10 years and my young Aussie Fly who is 16 months. Callie, the female 10 YO Aussie is the boss. Eddie is a male irish terrier stray that adopted us when he was about 2, he’s 10 now. When it was just Eddie and Callie, they rarely played with each other but got along famously. The only time they would play was when we were all coming back to the house from the barn. Then they would do a wonderful ‘run by’ and just run and plow into each other for just a few minutes.
When Fly first came home, Callie certainly tolerated her and put up with her but Callie did not play with Fly. All the playing was with Fly and Eddie. They would do amazing ‘Fly bys’ and Fly would really tackle Eddie. Eddie put up with it all and loved it all. I should add here that we could never get Eddie to play with toys at all., only other dogs.
Now that Fly is a bit older, and maybe more respectful, she and Callie are having LOTS of fun! And really, its more recent, just in the last month, that I have seen them play consistently every day. Fly hunkers down real low, with total respect, and just begs Callie to play. Callie seems to really enjoy it and its been a hoot watching this all unfold. Fly also still plays with Eddie but Callie seems to be her favorite these days! .
I’m sure Hope/Willie will change also as Hope matures. If you are interested in seeing the Fly/Callie play, just just uploaded it the other day to my youtube channel ‘twodraftmom’ . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVxkOCanZxQ
Good luck! Claire, Callie, Eddie and Fly !
Beth says
You know way more than I do about dog behavior, but isn’t it sort of normal for adult dogs to think that adolescents are obnoxious?
I got a second dog in large part to be friends with my first dog. I brought in an adult female who seemed compatible. I was a bit disappointed that she did not seem more interested in playing with him. I won’t lie: I would be happier if they played more (in cool weather, they will wrestle briefly once a day or so. In hotter weather, they may play together once or twice a week). I hear with envy stories of people whose dogs play and chase and wrestle all day.
That said, they genuinely seem to enjoy each other’s company. They are frequently found lying a foot or two apart from each other. I am of the belief that dogs are generally happier having another dog around, unless they truly hate each other.
Khris Erickson says
I have two dogs,and am extremely grateful that they are both very good friends. Nothing warms my heart more than to see Mystic and Belle playing in the morning as I’m getting ready for work. They definately get something from their relationship with each other that as a human I just can’t give them.
Whatever you decide I know that you will make the right choice for you, Willie and Hope.
Shana says
Five years ago I got two Great Dane pups, a male and a female, about 2 weeks apart in age. Mars, the male, was nervous and fearful of everything. Minerva, the female, was pushy with others, but did well with Mars. They played nicely, guarded only those chew bone type items they had in their possession, but were never mean or bullyish about it. Then we lost Mini to bloat at age three, and Mars was suddenly an only dog. I expected he’d be a wreak, missing his “sister”, but he never once indicated he cared she was gone. He rather loved being an only dog, as he got me all to himself. His fear issues lessened, and he made great improvement in the “fear of strangers” front – I don’t believe this was directly linked to being an only dog, rather I was less stressed having just one giant dog loose with non-dog savvy guests, so he spent more time with strangers with me not being on edge.
6 months later we adopted a very small deaf Great Dane named Pixie, she was just shy of 1.5 years. Pixie was raised at the rescue with at minimum 10 other Danes at any given time, so she was very used to lots of dogs. She’s extremely non-confrontational, and there were no integration issues such as you might get with a nervous, fearful dog and a new dog. She did want to snuggle, and Mars was absolutely horrified at the thought of sleeping next to her. I’d never thought about it before, but Mars and Mini never slept really close, they might be side by side, maybe a foot touching, but not curled up on each other. Pixie would curl up half on Mars and Mars would leap out of his bed and run across the room, eyes wide, a true look of horror on his face. It took a month, maybe two, before he stopped reacting to her snuggles, and now they sleep like this all the time. They play nicely, and snuggle, and I think he likes her more than he did Mini. Which is not to say his relationship with Mini wasn’t good, but he seems closer to Pixie.
Then bring in a now 7 month Tibetan Mastiff male (kept intact for showing) named Waldorf, and the whole dynamic has changed. Mars didn’t really like Wally at first. Didn’t want to play with him, but also he wouldn’t correct Wally for obnoxious behavior. Neither would Pixie. Both gave up toys, tried to disengage rude play by leaving the room, and no one seemed to really like Wally. But over the last 5 months or so the relationships have improved. Wally spent a good deal of time picking on Pixie, and I had to start stepping in to help her out as she was not telling him to stop. He is significantly better with her now, and rarely do I need to intervene. Mars has begun playing with Wally, he plays bitey face and tug, chase games, and they love to stalk each other outside. Wally doesn’t really snuggle up to the other dogs, or us people, in typical Tibetan Mastiff form he’s very independent from both humans and his doggie family. But I have seen him become more attached, thought subtly, such as sleeping with his feet touching Mars, or something of the sort.
None of these dogs are what I would call BFF’s, they don’t get along 100% of the time. But any disagreements are short and over and forgotten so its not an issue. No one is unhappy, at worst there might be some indifference between them all at any given time. While I understand the desire to have a playmate for Willie, it sounds like the biggest reason is for exercise. And it sounds like they do run and play together outside, which satisfies the need for exercise, correct? And if three dogs is the number you seek, perhaps once you have three, you will find Willie plays with Hope in some situations, and the other dog in other situations, and that it all balances out. Personally, so long as none of my dogs are being bullied, or are clearly always unhappy about the other dog(s), I guess I can’t expect them to be BFF’s always and forever. And, you never know, even if you were to bring in a dog Willie currently adores, that could change after constant companionship for weeks or months – as the novelty of that special playmate wears off. Just my own 02 cents worth of limited experience and observation of my own motley crew. Good luck, its never an easy decision to make.
Mutt Match says
As dog trainers who find rescue dogs for families, we have seen first hand how difficult it is to predict the success of a match, when there is more than one dog involved.
Not every dog is right for every household and this is especially true when it is a multiple dog household. Rehoming when done thoughtfully, and we can’t think of a more thoughtful person than Trisha, can be a very good option, although painful. By this time, it is often very clear what the ideal home would be for a specific dog. In the end, the dogs as well as the family are often happier.
Why judge? Everyone’s hopes and dreams in a dog are personal and should be respected. You are remarkable Trisha, to share so much with your readers! Thank you for your openness and honesty. You are a constant source of inspiration to us!
Rachel H. says
This is interesting to me, not least because I have an older “difficult” dog (Kizzy) and a younger dog (Gromit). The difference between us is that I never once thought I was getting a dog “for” Kizzy — unlike Willie, she has never much enjoyed playing with or meeting others dogs. Rather, I needed/wanted a dog that could come with me to work (at a dog training center), could go on walks with friends (Kizzy is too dog-reactive and suspicious of new people for this to be fun for either of us), and most of all agility! 🙂
With that background, my biggest concern when I brought Gromit home was to manage their interactions so that Kizzy wasn’t so annoyed that she pummeled him. At first she barely tolerated their brief interactions, but as he matured over the first year she came to accept his presence in our home. Eventually she was comfortable enough to lie down in the same room as him, and truly relax. There have been spats, but nothing serious. Gromit is 3yo now, and just in the last few months I have caught them starting to play together … it took Kizzy that long to acclimate.
Frank says
Trisha,
There are few guarantees in life, but people still have to make tough decisions about those things that will have an impact on their lives and the lives of those they love. But as long as those decisions are done with the intent of making the best life possible for those who are affected by the decision, it is not for me (or anyone in my opinion) to be second guessing such decisions. What is important is the knowledge that the person making the decision gave the matter great thought and consideration and sought feedback from others before reaching a decision. If they do all that then I can respect and support the decision. I think you are doing all that, so you can make the best decision for both Will and Hope in the end. And whatever that decision it will be the right one no matter what anyone else thinks or says, because it will be a decision that came from the heart and soul of a person who clearly loves her Willie and her Hope and is doing what is best for them.
Susan S. says
My guess is that there are as many different multi-dog stories as there are multi-dog households, & that the Willie/Hope relationship will continue to evolve for a year or so.
My two female Weimaraners are several years apart in age & never really played until the puppy, Sallie, was big enough & old enough to do the things Luna enjoys doing. Now they run & bump & chase & hurry over to sniff whatever the other is sniffing (which is what Weims do), & they sleep with their heads on one another. They’re an inseparable team. They’ll clean out a yogurt cup together, both tongues working in that 6 oz space. They have never had a disagreement. A friend says that every good dog deserves a dog, & I’m wondering if pack doesn’t trump play. Once they can do dog stuff together maybe whether they prefer to play with each other or with other dog friends will be less crucial.
Meg Boscov says
There is no doubt in my mind that Trisha knows what is best for her family and dogs. This is a very complicated, individual decision, not black and white.
When my family faced a similar situation a year ago with a puppy who, as she matured, was already making my soft, resident dog’s life miserable, I had to make the heartbreaking decision to re-home. Thank goodness I had my friends to support me.
My heart goes out to you, Trisha. I so admire you and the honesty & strength you display here and elsewhere.
Jen Gibson says
Ooh, this is a tough one. It’s not very ‘acceptable’ in the dog community to give up a dog, is it? I know we’ve struggled with that with our two. Kinka, the ACD, herds Remy, the lab, constantly. We’ve been teaching her ‘Quit’ with the heeling and sometimes it works. Remy hardly seems to mind the ankle biting, but perhaps she doesn’t stand up for herself?
We’ve had several fights, the last one leaving Kinka with staples near her eye and a gash in my finger. Should we separate them? Does Remy need a new home? We decided that we needed to change first and demand better behaviour from the girls – NILF basically. Sit for outside, sit for leash, down/stay for supper, etc. It made a big difference. We still struggle a bit with toys but we’re working on it. But so far, we’ve decided to find a way to make it work.
One thing that struck me about Hope – he’s not neutered yet, right? Couldn’t that be part of his competitive nature? Could a snip-snip here and a snip-snip there be enough to help settle him down?
Also, just like in human relationships, perhaps dogs can’t be everything to each other. Perhaps there are buddies for play, buddies for cuddling and buddies for just hanging out. And while this might be adding more misery – could a third dog be that equilibrium?
I know, I know – ya gotta get the first two straightened out before you add another!
Just a few thoughts. Good luck with the boys.
MorganRoth says
Respectfully, is it possible that you are the one seeking more from the relationship? While my story concerns cats, the emotions involved seem very close to what you are experiencing.
I had a wonderful old gentleman of a cat who was the only pet for much of his life. On impulse we rescued a kitten that had been dropped off as a stray at a vet hospital. We really expected things to go poorly, but the two of them bonded and were terrific together. You never saw one without the other and the older cat spent hours grooming the kitten until she was soaking wet.
When my old gentleman died after a seven struggle with kidney failure, I felt like I had lost a huge part of myself. He was that “one”…that pet that just gets into your heart and never leaves. I knew I wasn’t ready for another pet, but I was very concerned about how the younger cat would do without a companion. She had never been without another cat to groom and play with. So we adopted a cat from the shelter that was a little younger than her and seemed very friendly. This cat was really “for” the existing cat, to fill in that hole left in her life.
The cats did tolerate each other, but for years they never really interacted. It was very hard for ME because I wanted so badly for them to have that same special bond. But this was a very different cat than our old man had been and their relationship was never going to be the same. Because I couldn’t accept that I often felt distant from the new cat, almost as if I resented her for not stepping into that role.
Rehoming her really was never an option. When I adopt an animal, I am accepting full responsibility for them for the rest of their life. If she had been actually attacking the existing cat, things might have been different, but it wasn’t her fault she couldn’t fill a predefined role. Instead I made sure to spend more time with the preexisting cat, because filling in those empty spots was MY job, not the other cat’s.
Now, five or more years later, they are much closer. In the old days it was always the old gentleman who groomed the little female diva, but now she’s the one who does the grooming and the shelter cat laps it up. They can often be found sleeping together in the same basket. Sometimes they wrestle, which is something the old man would have never tolerated.
Anyway, this is getting overly long and I know I’m rambling, but remember that some things can’t be recaptured. Every relationship is different and has good and bad aspects. Your duty is to Willie, but it is also to Hope…he is YOUR dog now, just as much as Willie is. In the end rehoming may be the better choice for both of them, but you may never find that “perfect” friend for Willie. Just like people, animals can have a “heart” dog or “heart” cat, that one other personality that they just click with in such a special and wonderful way. That kind of bond really can’t be chosen…look at how carefully you picked out Hope, all the different things you tested for and considered…but in the end, it simply is there or it isn’t, and you could go through an awful lot of animals trying to find the one who fits the image you have in your head.
trisha says
Thanks for the thoughtful comments, they are much appreciated. A few responses before my final packing for Toronto:
To Morgan, and her very respectful and understandable question about how much is too much to expect. The answer, after careful thought, is no, I don’t think I am asking too much (though I can see why you asked that.) I didn’t go into it at length, but my primary concern is not that Willie and Hope won’t be BFF’s. It’s that they will become more competitive over time, and end up in those serious same-sex-live-in-the-same-household fights I’ve seen too many of after 22 years. Not best friends is one thing. Always needing constant vigilance and management is another. I’ve seen so many dogs over the years kept together for their owner’s sakes, when the dogs were living in a constant state of arousal and anxiety. That’s what wouldn’t be acceptable, and because Hope is so competitive and has exhibited such adult male behavior so early, that’s what’s on my mind.
And FYI, Hope got snip snipped 3 weeks ago!
Karen London says
I think it is wonderful that you are opening up such an important conversation that delves into how complicated relationships are. We are all very lucky as readers of your blog that you are so honest and open with us. I know I am just one of many who respects you all the more for it!
Your caring, thoughtful approach to considering what is best for everyone comes through in every word you write, as does your love for all the individuals involved. Relationships involve so many factors and they play such a huge part in the happiness of all species. I think you are wise to consider all the possible ways to make this work out. I am in complete support of whatever you choose to do.
Katie says
I think in times like this it is always easy for people to jump in to offer advice. Most, thankfully, have only the best of intentions. It is so important to keep in mind that the majority of us have not witnessed the dynamics between Will & Hope. Knowing this, all I can do is offer an open mind and ears, even a shoulder if need be. I know that in the end only you can make the decision, and it WILL be the right one. Remember you have a great support staff in your readers, friends and family who are always willing to listen.
Beth says
Trisha, (and I say this confident that there is a TON of background information I’m missing), I know you’ve said that Willie PLAYS best with submissive males, but as you are of course aware, “Playing with” and “living with” are not the same thing. So many people have found that one male and one female are the best match for a household. Despite the fact that Will prefers playing with boys, might he prefer living with a girl?
After all, I adore my nights out with my friends and for general fun, girlfriends tend to be the best match. But I would hate to live with any woman I have ever been friends with, and for a living companion I could not ask for better than my husband.
It occurs to me that dogs are perhaps not so different?
kiwichick says
I had four BC’s. One died three weeks ago 🙁 I have found that none of my dogs play together. They just want to play with me. I actually prefer it that way. Just because they don’t play doesn’t mean they are not company for each other. In my books they don’t have to play. I had three males and a female and they all got along. I don’t think BC’s play much with other dogs IMO.
IHeartDogs says
This is my first post. I’ve been reading your blog for over a year(love it, ty ty!) and have read a couple of your books.
I got my second weimaraner, Lucy, when my first dog, Leroy (also a weim) was 2. Leroy was exactly how you describe Willie being a “victim.” Leroy has always been super sensitive. He was depressed for months and did not care much for Lucy. I noticed that he started to really accept her around the one year mark. Now they’re BFF and are inseparable.
I felt horrible at first, because like you I felt my first priority was Leroy. Perhaps time will help Willie and Hope? *fingers and paws crossed*
Kat says
This has been a very interesting and instructive conversation for me. We’re debating the merits of adding a second canine to the family. There’s a lot to consider.
Here, in no particular order, are my musings on the subject for whatever they might be worth.
The first thing that came to mind reading was that you need an adult female with great social skills, that will manage both the boys.
My dog, Ranger, has great social skills and lots of opportunities to interact with other dogs both at his house and at the dog park. There are puppies he will play with and puppies that he doesn’t want to play with. There are puppies that he plays with until they hit that adolescent stage where they want to spend all their time testing the boundaries. When they reach that point he’ll avoid them like the plague but may play with them again when they’ve found their place. Then there are the puppies that he takes a personal interest in and will “train” for want of a better term. And there are those that he has no interest in until they hit adolescence and he decides they’re worth “mentoring” (again, I don’t have the language for what it would be in dogs but use the one that would apply were they humans). There’s a Boerboel at the park that is Ranger’s pal at the park. As a puppy Ranger kept an eye on the Boerboel but didn’t interact directly with him, instead he watched and if the puppy was being bullied would intervene to stop it. Then one day when the Boerboel was about 6 months old Ranger invited the pup to play. It was totally fascinating because Ranger was teaching the puppy how to play safely with a smaller weaker dog. At this point Ranger was still considerably larger and stronger. Ranger was showing him how to pull his punches, bite without touching, etc. It was adorable watching this huge puppy trying to imitate in his clumsy puppy way. By contrast the Lab puppy Ranger had played with regularly at the park hit the 7-8 month age and Ranger totally abandoned her. She’d fly into the park, rush to Ranger, roll on her back and lick his face. He’s walk away without even appearing to acknowledge her existence. She’s 18 months now and he’ll play with her again. All this by way of saying different puppies at different stages have evoked different responses from my calm, confident dog with great social skills. What you’re seeing with Will and Hope might be another stage in the development of their relationship.
Smart, high drive dogs are likely to be more of a challenge when they hit that “teen” age. Would an alpha wanna be like Will necessarily have the confidence to deal with that?
I’m not sure how dogs learn to be good leaders but I know part of has to be by experiencing good leadership from both their human and canine role models. I think I’d be inclined to expose Hope to all the good leaders that I could in hopes that in time he’d grow into a calm confident leader that Will could trust.
Having learned how you want him to deal with other dogs in a non-aggressive fashion could Will be uncertain about how to discipline Hope? From what you’ve said of Will he looks to you for direction on interacting with other dogs. Have you taught him how to raise a puppy?
This is getting long but a few final thoughts. Ranger gets along with pretty much any dog but there are dogs that are his friends and playmates and other dogs that are more acquaintances. There are a couple of dogs that have followed him home twice in the last two weeks. The Pomeranian and Manchester Terrier live together and escape together but I wouldn’t describe them as friends or playmates. The last time they were here Ranger dug up one of his bones and gave it to the Pomeranian who happily settled down to chew. Then Ranger and the terrier engaged in a rousing game of chase and pounce. I’d be hard pressed to say which one Ranger liked better; their relationships are different and one type of relationship isn’t necessarily better or worse than another just different. Could you be overlooking the relationship they have because it isn’t the one you hoped for?
Wishing you all the best as you work though everything.
anne says
I would suggest that you re-think the idea of bringing one dog home solely for another dog. As the human in the relationship, it seems to me that you need to accept responsibility for making a place for any new dog you may bring into your home. It seems unethical to me to make the new dog’s place contingent on how well he performs as a companion for your current dog.
Stop auditioning puppies and get your current dog some new toys. The decision to bring a new animal into the home, with all the adjustment stresses involved for that animal, needs to be made by a responsible adult capable of making a commitment, not by the resident dog.
Anne says
My dogs have infrequent play sessions, except for the two youngest who at 11 1/2 months and 18 months seem to do nothing but play play play. The older dogs will join in sometimes and then there will be a whole line of dogs, racing around the bushes, over the deck, under the deck, through the bushes. It doesn’t seem to me that they have best friends in the pack, but there are some who definitely don’t get along. My males do not play together- they run around and chase each other but it’s more competitive than a game. The females play together, and the males play with females, but not just the boys. They are all intact so that may make a difference- it’s just too competitive.
I’m probably finding a home for one girl that I dearly love because my older female just has never learned to like her. They don’t fight so much as the older dog glares at and bosses Missy around whenever they are together. It’s not the best for either of them. But other dogs that Cinder didn’t like at first (she never likes new dogs so it’s always a process to introduce her to them) were eventually accepted. It’s just Missy she doesn’t like and won’t warm up to. Probably Will would love Missy, who is calm and sweet, but you wouldn’t- she is also a cat-starer.
And Sprite’s (18 month old) best friend lives next door- she absolutely loves Kira, the neighbor’s German Shorthaired Pointer and would pick her to play with over any of her packmates, even Pepper (she’s the 11 month old). None of my other dogs want anything to do with Kira except to bark at her.
Debra says
I feel so sorry for your situation. I have two male (neutered)aussies that are 2 and 4, and I’ve often thought that if they were reversed in age it never would have worked out. My 4 year old is just not as tough as my 2 year old, and is so patient with him. The 2 year old is a resource guarder (and I agree that you can work on it – he’s ever so much improved), and is more pushy. He is also a much faster learner and is much more focused and so much more fun to train.
I noticed that they go through stages in development and at times are best buds, and at other times the four year old will bark him down or reprimand him if he gets too pushy. I’ve often felt like you mentioned, that my older one is far too patient and often wished he would push back a little more, although I think some of that tolerance is what makes it work.
One other thing I think is important – they both have other dog friends that we see every week. They each have self selected friends that they are really well suited with, and its fun to watch how different they are with their buddies. It just adds another dimension to their relationship when they get back together at home like they are more tolerant.
I don’t know if any of this helps. Maybe they just need a little more time and space to learn how to interact. Puppies really go through a lot of changes.
Susan Mann says
I definitely agree that friendship can’t be forced! Brodie is a bit like Willie in that he’s not an easy dog (and he’s the dog I got when I specifically was NOT looking for a dog with “issues!”) After he grew up, he didn’t really ever get along well with the males in the household (I had 2 older males before I got him) although most of the time it wasn’t an active problem. He got along fine, and played with for several years, my mix female Kyp!, and I was careful to get a female pup who wasn’t very pushy (Arie) when I finally decided to add another dog to the household. Perhaps, if you decide that Hope is not the friend you want for Willie, a female (as Lassie was) would be a better option? I’m also thinking of something I read, (perhaps from you? sorry, its 2 am!) about dogs making friends when they are young, and keeping them, but not always being ready to make friends as they grow up, and wondering if Willy will be ready to make friends regardless of the makeup of the other dog.
On a semi-related note, I’m feeling fairly discouraged, as Brodie and Kyp! had a fight Sunday night (ever notice these things happen when only the emergency vets are open?). They’re both coming up on 12 years, and both have some resource guarding issues (from other dogs, not from me or other people) though not a very frequent problem, and they’ve never fought each other before. Kyp! has strong jaws, and did some significant damage, tearing skin and muscle on Brodie’s front legs, didn’t get injured herself. When my first dog Pepper was 12 yrs old, I came home one day and found him almost dead, having been attacked by what I assumed was the pair of them, with Brodie as the main instigator, but perhaps it was more Kyp! then as well, as she seems pretty capable in a fight. I also wonder if there isn’t some underlying physical issue with Brodie that “disinhibited” Kyp! from attacking when Brodie warned her off (I was carrying a piece of raw meat out to the grill, saw Brodie raise a lip just slightly, something that Kyp! would usually pretty much ignore or respect, but she attacked instead.) It makes me wonder, as Pepper had started having some absence seizures not long before he got attacked, if there isn’t something going on, so vet will do a work up once the injuries have died down. He is doing fine, though a bit disgusted at wearing a t-shirt, and I wish I could explain that he’s better off with that than being a cone-head! Sorry for the long post, but I’ve always considered Brodie and Kyp! as friends, though I do think Brodie, of all my dogs, would be happiest as an only dog.
Nicola says
Poor Trisha – first Mick, and now Hope. I don’t know enough to give good advice, but for what it’s worth, I’d wait until Hope is able to keep up with Will and see if that changes things. Only you know if Will can cope with the stress while you wait for that to happen.
I have two females who are best friends. I bought them both on the same day at 8 weeks old (never doing that again!). I often came outside (they had run of part of the house & yard) to find them sleeping together – Buffy lying on her side, and Poppy lying on top of Buffy. They played chase to the utter ruin of the garden and my delight, and Buffy would run just fast enough that Poppy couldn’t catch her, but slow enough that it was worth trying to. I might add that Poppy is 1/6 of Buffy’s size – wrestling was never a go. 11 years later, as I get up of a morning, they “wrestle” with front paws and open mouths lying on the bed. They have a pair of male dogs 6 months older who are also best friends – they used to love long hikes together in the bush, and the occasional game of chase, now days they follow each other round, sniffing in the same spots and generally enjoying togetherness in a dignified, elderly way. I might add I moved in with the owner of the male dogs for around 6 months and there were almost no problems – knowing more of dog behaviour now than I did then, I can’t believe how lucky we were – and that they are truly good friends!
Unfortunately when Buffy was 4 she was hit by a car, and developed severe arthritis. For me, I bought a male BC, Tam, around 5-6 months old for obedience & agility. Poppy bit him on the nose several times when he was too rough, and for a couple of years he always had a toy in his mouth when he played with her (his idea – it stopped him from nipping her when he got excited) – but after the first 4-5 months, they played together occasionally – wrestling, chasing/herding games mostly. Unfortunately Buffy hasn’t taken well to Tam. I have never allowed fights, but they go days without so much as a sniff in each others direction. As Poppy has aged she plays less with Tam too. I desperately want to get Tam a dog to play with – he is so happy when one stays with us, but finances prevent. The best I can do is take him to an off leash park when possible and borrow friends’ dogs occasionally for a game. For me, all the training I can do with him never gives him that relaxed, happy grin he has playing with a well matched dog!
I wish you all the best as you wait and watch and wonder.
Jody Hergert-Andresen says
This is a tough situation and I see your concern about the potential writing on the wall as Hope matures. I often tell clients that we get animals to add to our life. If the match is such that it actually takes away from our life or diminishes the quality of life for other pets who are already in the home, then it may not be the best match. I agree that in some animal relationships, just as in some human relationships you are better off being apart. While it is possible to manage any situation, the question is do you want to?
Several years ago my husband and I adopted a 2 year old dog. The very first day I was petting him and our then 10 1/2 year old dog approached. The new dog growled at our senior dog as if to say “stay away from her, she is mine.” I told my husband that if the behavior continued, I would return him. Fortunately, within 48 hours the behavior ceased never to return again and they became good friends. The point being I was not willing to embark on a lifetime journey of management, constant supervision and bullying behavior between a younger, pushy dog and my sweet geriatric old dog. I don’t consider this having a disposable attitude. I consider it having a clear idea of what I want and need my house to be like – harmonious.
I feel for you Trisha. You will ultimately make the decision that is in everyone’s best interest. Take care.
Jody Hergert-Andresen, B.A., CDBC
Laurie says
Tough question, and obviously interesting to gauge what our dogs want and balance what we want. I got Beau, a red-headed Aussie from rescue, three years ago. He quickly connected with our family. He liked other dogs, but seemed fine being an only dog and he was a bit needy on the attention scale. A year later, I added Amos. Beau was 6 at the time and Amos 2. I wasn’t sure Beau wanted a friend, but I wanted him to have one and I wanted a “project” dog. Amos was a rescue who needed to learn how to live in a family and be a dog.
At first they were best friend. They romped and played tug and chased around the yard Nd we had not one scuffle for months. But over time, Beau kept getting pushier. Herding at play, competing at tug, hoArding the toys and pushing between Amos and the people. He started correcting Amos for every transgression or just on a whim. Poor shy Amos replied by not playing with Beau and always giving up the toy. He would just cower or leave when Beau got bossy.
Amos was clearly thriving here otherwise. Getting to like people, learning to play fetch and to swim and hike, putting on some needed weight and getting healthy. He needed us and I needed him, so I was hopeful things would improve.
Flash forward a year. My dogs do not play together, but they each play with other dogs. But they truly seem to like each other. Amos has learned how to turn Beaus bossiness to his own advantage in many situations. Beau has the better bone and he wants it, he goes and gets and old bone and ply gleefully with it. When Beau come to take it, he let’s him and goes and gets the one he wanted. They are rarely separated by more than a few feet, they herd squirrels together and are great hiking companions. Amos has clearly learned from following Beaus brassy lead to be more comfortable in many situations. And Beau, though possessive of Amos, also seems to look out for him some.
Recently Amos has had need for doggy PT and acupuncture and we have been leaving periodically without Beau. Beau is always very concerned when we are gone, then greats Amos with a lick when we get home, promptly returning to being in charge. They are not the playmates I wanted, but clearly have grown in the past year And a half to really like each other.
I remember worrying about not getting a dog that would push Beau around. I might have felt differently watching this evolve if that had been the case. But at some point that chAnged and I was worried about poor Amos being pushed around. Then I realized that they were working it all out in their own way. It took awhile. Beau matured a little more, we did lots of training together, and Amos started to get some confidence. But They have become. Great dog fMily.
Laurie
Laurel says
You’ve said before that you think anyone who can’t tolerate some uncertainty shouldn’t get a puppy, and it seems that in this one area, you can’t tolerate uncertainty. I would second the recommendation to consider an adult dog that Will can actually meet as an adult before you make a commitment. With your training experience, you could offer a really wonderful home to a rescue dog (even a bc).
Kait B. Roe says
Trisha,
Maybe Hope is the dog YOU need, and what Wilie needs is an older or similar aged dog whose relationship to him is easy and playful. In other words, my best suggestion is to get an older dog whose personality and play styles are similar to Will’s. Which is also more likely to be SET than a puppy. If Hope is the dog you describe, I see him being that one in a million dog for a trainer/farmer/behaviorist like you. But if Will does need a pal then I think an older, more DEFINED dog (because of his/her age) is possibly your best bet. As for where you get this pup, well, that is harder. And even more difficult is predicting a behavior pattern once you get them living in the same house. Hope and Will may find their bliss with each other after Hope gets through this particular stage in his life, but if you are still thinking 3 dogs, then I can’t help but think the next one is really Will’s choice. Take him with you to a shelter, check out his response to several different dogs over several visits. He’ll tell you who is the right one, if there IS a right one.
Which brings me to the next possibility which I don’t think you have covered here or in your other posts. Will may love having other pals come to visit, but he may not really ever want another dog to live with him. He may always decide not to greet any dog in the house, or play with him as he would a visitor. He may in his heart LOVE OTHER DOGS, but want desperately to be an ONLY dog. So does this mean you only have one dog simply because that is how Will wants it? Of course not, but it may change your mindset on the priority of bringing a best bud for Will into the house. Will is a very special boy, and you have done amazing work to get him where he is today. The bond you have with him is beyond many you have ever had, even with Lassie and Luke and Tulip. But that may be the issue. Other dogs may sense that relationship and choose not to engage Will as they otherwise might BECAUSE of YOUR relationship with him. Hope is bright. And if it is true he is the smartest BC you have ever had, he may know that relationship you have with Will is very special and may actually be ignoring Will so as not to engage in a competition for who is uppermost in YOUR heirarchy.
Of course all these ideas could be total garbage and you can take them as they are offered, with love and hope that you don’t give up Hope simply because he doesn’t/can’t have the relationship with Will that you want.
Blessings and courage in whatever you come to.
kait
orietta says
Dear Trisha,
first of all I take this occasion to say A BIG THANK YOU to your blog and books. I’ve started to read them and to follow you last year when we adopted a 6 years old lab who changed 3 families in six months and was destined to the shelter after her last owner suddendly died. Bella (is the name of the dog, we live in Italy) is very active and challenging and I felt I had to understand her better. It’s where you helped a lot.
From what I read about Willie I’m only wondering if if could be worth to give him the chance to handle the relationship in his own way. It could be the occasion for him to turn down his fears. I don’t know but I feel Willie is capable to do this and more.
Good luck anyway and thanks again..
s says
Sorry to hear things aren’t going as well as had seemed by various snippets and photos you’ve posted. I hope you are able to get to a position of peace with whatever decision is made – you have a tricky situation! The worry that seems unspoken (and I could be misreading between the lines) is the underlying competition between the two dogs might just eventually center on your affection, attention and time and that is not one that you can manage easily – and would either dog be satisfied if that is the nature of their relationship? good luck.
I am very fortunate – I am not very knowledgeable about dogs, so I completely lucked out when we brought our 2nd rescue into the mix. I did foster her first to see if things would work out, and besides a couple VERY small incidents the first two days, these dogs have been best buds since. They will often choose to lay near each other and their play can look horrific but neither comes away from it upset or hurt or scared. One has more energy and play drive than the other, but she gives it up when the other signals he’s had enough. They can chew their bones near each other without any issues -there is no “stealing” unless one walks away from the treat (hey losers weepers…). Their bond is very special and that is never more evident when their buddy next door comes over – an adolescent male who drives them completely bonkers. As he matures, he’s playing better, but I often put one of my dogs inside because I can tell she is aggravated and I don’t want her in a position where things escalate. This dog doesn’t read their “enough already” signals well and I worry air snaps will turn into something more, although its been almost a year and that hasn’t happened. They don’t play unsupervised though – I feel like my female looks to me frequently to temper her – to make sure she doesn’t cross the line. If I run inside temporarily, I will often find her at the door as if to say sheesh, don’t leave me alone with that idiot dog! Yet, when this dog comes over, both of my dogs run and play excitedly – but they just don’t LOVE him like they love each other.
I grew up with two lab brothers who had a bond beyond any I’ve seen – they were very different from each other but just complemented each other. I think that is rare and hard to find.
Bottom line, I think its worth re-homing if the resident dog is anxious or lethargic and it can’t be managed – what fun is it for them if the new addition isn’t adding to their lives and instead detracting? But, I dont think that is an easy decision – and anyone who criticizes that decision has not been in those shoes – these types of decisions are not made easily or lightly, but are made with the long term well being of each dog and the household overall in mind. Keeping dogs in a home separate constantly is no life.
Ignacio says
Well, if there’s anybody who can figure this one out is you. 🙂
I sympathize with the “V on his forehead” part; We brought a puppy home a few months ago and experienced exactly the same thing with the “incumbent” dog.
Janet Smith says
You know Willie is older now and perhaps doesn’t need a best friend. He was a younger dog when he formed his relationship with Lassie and may not be capable of forming the kind of friendship you are hoping for with another dog now.
Living with 4-5 dogs for the past 14 years they have all changed as they get older, they are all social but don’t form the playful bonds they formed with other dogs when they were youngsters (under age 3).
best-
Janet
trisha says
Some more responses:
To Kat: Boy do I agree that an older female could be a great addition to the mix of boys. If I had $100 for every time I’ve said “If only Tulip was here!” I’d retire!
To anne: Willie is not making the decision about what dog comes, goes or stays. I am. As a responsible, knowledgeable adult it is my responsibility to do all I can that the dogs in my care live healthy, happy lives. Forcing dogs to stay together, even if they are anxious and uncomfortable when trapped in the same house, is not responsible, loving or kind. I have seen client after client who had 2 dogs who clearly were miserable living together, but the client could not bear to do what the dogs needed, which was live apart. It’s a lovely egocentrism to believe that each one of us is the perfect home for every dog, and that if we just try hard enough we can fix anything, but every behaviorist in the country will tell you that’s not true.
As I’ll write in my next post, I don’t know yet if Willie and Hope are the right match for each other, or for me. It’s too soon to say. I wrote the post not for me, but for readers, so that IF I determine that this is not the best home for Hope, they won’t be blindsided. One commenter raised a good point, about one’s comfort level with uncertainty. I’ve always said, in numerous writings and speeches, that you can never tell how well one dog will do in an environment until they’ve been there for awhile. That’s doubly true with puppies, and so when I got a puppy I was, and am, perfectly comfortable knowing that I can’t know if it’s a good match until it some time passes. That’s especially true of herding dogs–you simply can’t know if their style will match yours until they are 10 to 12 months of age. I’m fine with that, although of course I’d much rather not be seeing some potential red flags. I think it’s others who are less comfortable with uncertainly perhaps?
Alexandra says
Oh Trisha, my heart really goes out to you and your dogs over this! I am by no means a behavior expert, but I think it’s worth being patient and seeing how Will & Hope’s relationship develops as they grow up.
From my own experience, my older dog Izzy is a reactive rescue who appeared never to have been properly socialized. She exhibits a lot of inappropriate chasing and body slamming behaviors with other dogs, and she’s afraid of pretty much anything novel. I did two years of work to recondition her while also educating myself so that I could help her. When Iz was three and finally behaving in some semblance of normalcy, I decided that I really wanted another dog that I could take more places and train for agility. Izzy was only just able to return to group obedience classes at age five. So, I got puppy Copper at 8 weeks old. Initially they were not very enamored of each other. I spent most of the time playing with the dogs separately, and only allowing them to play under controlled conditions. I crated Copper behind a closed door when I was at work. I didn’t let them play outside at all because Iz would run full speed and want to body slam a puppy half her size. She would correct Copper’s annoying behavior but other times I would have to intervene. Since she turned two, Izzy has not been a dog who could just play with any dog. She can be very neurotic and intolerant and as a result doesn’t have many dog friends. Anyway, long story short, I had to manage the early months very carefully, but Cops and Iz were BFFs by the time Copper was two. Occasionally, I will have to down-stay Izzy from excessive body slamming, but now that Copper is old enough to assert himself it’s much less of an issue than when he was a pup. I will post a few pictures when I get home of their inauspicious beginnings versus today.
From my own human experience, my younger brother and I were very close growing up, but he was a huge pain from age 12 to 15, and I can honestly say in those years I couldn’t stand him more often than not. Now we are in our 30s and have been close again since the time he finished high school at 17.
Dawn says
If it were me I would be looking for a 3rd dog. One who can bridge between the 2. I would suggest an older (3-5) bitch who has been a mother. My girl Grace came right into my mind as I was reading this. She is quiet yet in control with the younger dogs, but does not put up with the shenanigans. A simple look or curled lip will control the wild children, yet, she is calm and gentle with my older husky mix. If the younger girls are getting too rough, she will ooften just put herself between their play and the older dog. Yet at times she will wrestle, chase and play with all 3 of the other corgis, or with the older husky.
Now I know Corgis are not BC’s, but they are also a herding breed, and have some of the same attitudes. Perhaps there is a retiring brood bitch that might fill the needs between the two boys?
Lori says
I have a different perspective than dome of the commenters here. I have had 10 dogs over my lifetime, the most at one time was 5. Only 2 of those have had difficulties getting along with others, both german shepherds. One was an unneutered male (not by my choice) who wanted to be king of the world, he left with the boyfriend, good riddance. The other was a female (neutered) who had been badly mistreated as a pup, and seemed to take that pent up aggression out on every other dog around. I “managed” her interactions for 15 years until I could no longer deal with her: old age wasn’t kind to her. Hardest decision of my life, but one I wish I had made sooner in hind sight. All the others have lived together, played together, trained together, heck-eaten out of the same food bowl, without a gripe.
Sparky (Belgian Shep) and Bandit (terrier mix) were the first to live with me, both came as puppies. Five years later Missy (Aussie mix) was dumped near my home as an adult, and she decided we were her new family. Everyone got along fine, so OK. Seven years later Sparky died suddenly. We were all sad for a few days, but life went on. At the old age of 17 Bandit finally passed. Missy quit eating, quit drinking, basically quit living. Nothing I tried brought her out of her grief. She passed within 2 weeks. To this day I believe she died of a broken heart. So yes, I think dogs DO form strong bonds with other dogs.
I agree with the few others who have suggested an older, female dog as a friend for Will, one with an established personality and good ‘dog’ skills. I think that your own desires for an outstanding performance dog snuck in when you selected Hope: read your own posts back, and you will see that even week 1 you had concerns about Hope’s interactions with Will. Above all else, DO NOT feel bad if you need to find a new home for Hope. This is not about proving yourself to any one of us in the dog world. This is about finding the right companion for Will, accepting that mistakes have been made, adjusting course and moving forward without guilt.
Judith says
We have two dogs so they can be friends and companions, which with some ups and downs has worked out.
Our story goes back 15 years, when we got our first dog a female GSD/beagle mix we rented at the time but always said that when we bought we would get a second dog for companionship. We added Fred an adult Border Collie a couple of years later, in the beginning it was a bit of nightmare, the female, Jess and Fred got on ok during the day and on walks etc., they never played but at night at times we thought war was going to start mostly over me, Jess would not allow Fred near me. Over time Fred ruled our house and Jess just accepted her place in his shadow.
Fast forward 10 years and the 2 were thick as thieves, they never did play but when out walking they would be shoulder to shoulder, when hanging out we would find them asleep touching. When Fred died Jess was devasted, moppy, miserable etc. she had always been a dog that had bouts of “depression” but this time showed no signs of improvement. I would take her anywhere I could find dogs, which did make her happy untill we got home.
Our plan had been to wait awhile to bring another dog home, but three months later we added Bobby a 3.5 Border collie, a lot younger than we planned but sometimes when rescuing, plans go wrong. Jess and his relationship was never close, I think they drove each other nuts, he was to energetic, she was a lump. But he was company and she stopped mopping and had an active life for another 2 years.
When she passed we had the same conversation we will wait, but I wanted another dog who I could start in agility when young. Bobby was happy as an only dog, but once again I thought dogs should come in pairs for company. Enter George.
George came home as 5 month old, like with Bobby our plan had been to go to Glen Highland Farm and let the current dog pick their friend, but a local rescue came up with this cute young man. The two have always played well together, in between bouts of snarking and outright bullying behavior on Bobbys part. At one point we were having a series discussion about giving the puppy up, I had fallen in love but it did not seem fair to either dog to be living in a constant state of tension.
My husband and I are stubborn and also just could not make ourselves think about handing this great puppy to someone else, he was a perfect dog for us, Bobby just hated him. George is now a year old and the two dogs have become a pack, play hard, hang together on walks everything we could have wanted, but things really only started going well in the last 6 weeks.
For awhile we were concerned that there would be a nasty fight as George behaved as if he wanted to be the dominate dog, Bobby is not particular dominate but he is also not a follower, seems to like to do his own thing. In the last few weeks George has mellowed out and now follows Bobbys lead on most things. F
From my limited experience it seems to take time for a relationship to develop.
Diana Gill says
I got my Australian Shepherd, Teddy from a friend in 1999. He was very shy and scared of many things (pop can opening, ceiling fans, light reflected on the walls etc.). I worked with him for about a year and he improved greatly. He seemed to enjoy playing with a neighbor’s dog, so I decided to get him a playmate. He went with me to a dog rescue near us and we looked at several dogs. He went crazy over an Australian Shepherd/Beagle (we think) mix. We still looked at some other dogs and then had the Aussie/Beagle mix out again. Same reaction. We took Annabelle home in May of 2000. After that, he improved even more. Annabelle showed him how to behave like a “proper” dog and he became much more sociable and less afraid.
I can think of only one time in the entire 9 + years they were together (I lost my Teddy dog this past December. He was about 3 weeks shy of 14) that there was a problem. Teddy jumped up on the bed and landed on Annabelle who was sleeping near me. She snarled at him, I told her no and she just heaved a big sigh and settled down. Other than that, they played together in perfect harmony. They would tear around the yard at high speed with Annabelle trying to grab Teddy’s front leg. He let her get away with chewing on and pulling on his neck ruff and jumping on him. But he also occasionally knocked her “ass over teakettle” when she got particulary obnoxious. They would wrestle and growl and sound like they were going to kill each other. They had the best time!
They played together, sometimes slept together and sort of shared toys. They took turns sitting across my lap. Pretty much all toys became Annabelle’s, even when I bought two of everything. She wanted his and hers. He dealt with this by waiting until she got involved chewing on a toy and then he would sneak into the room, grab one of the other toys and sneak back out to another room. It was quite amusing to watch. If she noticed, she’d tear after him and steal it back. Sometimes I refereed just so Teddy could have toys to play with. They both loved chasing tennis balls, and Teddy liked to play keep away with it. It was one of his favorite games. He’d play it with me AND with Annabelle. It got so I’d throw the ball for Annabelle and when she brought it back a couple of times, I’d give it to Teddy. He would immediately start walking away and would prance around, holding his head up high enough so she couldn’t quite steal it away from him. Then he’d drop it and come back to me to be petted while she grabbed the ball again.
Annabelle has been quite depressed since Teddy died. She wouldn’t even play with toys for several months. She is slowly getting better. However, she is dog aggressive (learned at the dog park, unfortunately) so I am unable to get another dog. I tried one and she finally became tolerant, but that wasn’t fair to her. So Colin went to another home where he will be happier without Miss Crankypants to bully him. She and the cat play sometimes, but she tends to treat the cat like another dog and this can be too rough.
So, in my experience, maybe Willie can help you if you decide to get him new playmate. I surely wish it does work out with Hope since you obviously love him very much. But I agree with you about Willie being the priority. Since I can’t find a dog that Annabelle likes, then I won’t get another one until she is gone. I was hoping that would be several years down the road, but I found out fairly recently that she has a grade 4 heart murmur and is in early congestive heart failure. So, I’m going to concentrate on her and love her as much as I can while I still have her. I think she is only 11 or 12 years old.
I wish you the best in making decisions about Hope.
Anne says
Oh, how I appreciate this article and the comments. My 3.5 yr old female Havanese (Ava) loves to play chase and ball. When she has found a buddy it is such a joy to watch her enjoying herself. She has a good time when we play hide and seek, tug and ball, but I just can’t chase like another canine. I have been wondering about getting a playmate for her and keep saying she will have to pick out the next canine that comes into the home. Ava has warmed up to a big Lab named Jack, and a little mixed breed named Charlie, taking turns and seem quite polite in dog ways.
Recently we were in a training class with a mixed breed male dog and they both seemed interested in playing, so we allowed them off leash in an enclosed area after class was over. Ava told this dog off loudly, several times so I just ended the play. Not sure what the other dog was doing but Ava sure didn’t like it – he was more assertive in his play. She has never acted that way before, even with a very domineering Westie….. who had 15 pounds on her. My lesson from this is to let Ava take her time and choose her playmates. Tomorrow we have a play date with Charlie…..
Sherry says
Trisha–I want to add again, thanks for this blog post. I think the commentary here reflects a couple of interesting things about dog lovers, and maybe why this post is a bit contentious. Two ideas that seem very strong in the dog-loving community are: 1) dogs can be retrained to do just about anything, it just takes time, commitment, and love and 2) that acquiring a dog means never giving up on it.
What you might be seeing here are people perhaps who are trying very hard not to be that first-time, unaware owner that ends up getting a dog, not knowing anything about dogs, and sending it to the shelter. They are responding very strongly against the idea. The fact you are are a professional herder in a community that rehomes a dog when its warranted puts you in a very different culture than those of us who have been told over and over, “don’t give up on your dog!”
So there might be some misunderstandings here. What seems like a perfectly common and appropriate thing for you, a professional herder, to do (rehoming a dog who doesn’t have the right “fit”) is almost foreign to those of us who have dogs solely as companion animals, and not for a particular job.
Anyways, my .02.
Karissa says
I have to admit much surprise to reading this post. I’m most surprised, I guess, that your own bond to Hope has not grown strong enough to make you look past these events with Willie.
My oldest dog, Luke, does not really care about other dogs. Never has — He was raised with just me and prefers the company of humans. There is the odd dog that he fancies and plays with, but when I added dog number two, that dog was decidedly for me. Luke was in a funk for over a month, but I never once considered re-homing anyone.
My reason for adding dog three was two-fold. I wanted a Border Collie to train in agility and I thought that my second dog, Kaiser, really was desperate for a playmate. I let Kaiser meet the puppies available through the rescue, but I didn’t let him pick. He went straight for the male that he could easily dominate. I picked the girl that stood up to him.
Now, would Kaiser have been HAPPIER with a boy he could push around to no end? Of course! But did I think that would necessarily be good for anyone? No, not really.
He and Secret play endlessly in a terribly brutal way most of the time. I’m always worried that someone is going to get hurt. But it’s what they enjoy, so I let them play their hearts out, within reason. Where is Luke in all of this? He is more or less happy that they leave him alone. Once in a blue moon he will join in a quick chase game, but it is so rare that it always takes me completely by surprise and I watch in fascination.
Secret has not turned out to be nearly the type of dog I had anticipated when I brought her home. Her drive is far, far lower than I would have wished and training her foundation agility skills has proved to be more of a challenge than I expected. That said, I would NEVER consider re-homing her because of this. When I adopt a dog it is for life. I will just acclimate and change my training methods to suite her. I will be sad if she doesn’t want to be an agility dog, but there will always be other stuff for us to do together. At this point in her life, I’m thinking she’d make an awesome dock-diving dog. :o)
She may not be exactly the dog I had in mind when I was looking for my next agility dog, but by gosh, she’s my dog and I love her.
Lily says
My partner and I had our Aussie mix, Sunny, for about six months before we decided to adopt a four-month-old puppy, our Jack Russell mix, Neil. Sunny had been to doggie daycare before and always was put into the small dog play areas because the employees at the daycare noticed that she was always perkier when she was around little dogs (we think she may have had a litter of puppies before she was picked up by the humane society.)
When we first brought Neil home, Sunny didn’t express much interest in him, and whenever we would go out to the park to play, she would always ignore him and play fetch with us instead. It wasn’t until he was maybe eight months old that they started to wrestle and chase each other. Now they play with each other every day (usually while we’re eating dinner, they’ll be rolling around playing tug-of-war under the dining table…)
Sunny sleeps in a crate in the guest room and Neil sleeps in a crate in our bedroom, but whenever we let him out in the morning, the first thing he does is run into the guest room and wait for us to let Sunny out so he can say good morning to her. Even after hundreds of mornings of this, it never fails to melt my heart.
Mihaela says
Trisha, sorry about all the (sometimes judgemental)comments you get from us. I guess this is just a testament of how passionate people reading your blog are about all things dog! Please, don’t change anything you do! Just consider it a non-partisan scientific and ethical debate.
Do you think that a dog of the opposite gender would be a safer bet when you try to match two dogs that live in the same household (especially if you are going to stop at a pack of two)?
I totally understand why you want your dogs to be best friends. When I got a second dog, I did it for two equally strong reasons: 1. because I wanted more than one dog in my life; and 2. because I wanted my first dog to have a companion during the long hours when we had to be at work. And I got a third dog so two could keep each other company when I was working with the third one or had to take them to the vet…
I too had my doubts when the third puppy (Olive) joined the household. The first night when we got home with her (after a total of 8 hours of driving to and from the dog rescue in Arkansas where we got her from) she growled quite ferociously at me as I tried to pull her off an electrical cord that she was chewing on. Thank god for the rescue being so far! She got along famously and instantly with our large male dog Monty. It was a continuous source of amazement to me to watch this gentle giant self-handicapping to play with a puppy not larger than his head. And the look on his face (amused?) was priceless. They are still best friends 4 years later. But the interaction with our other dog, Chloe, Aussie, then 2-year old was quite different and made me feel so guilty. Chloe took two days to warm up to her and finally invite her to play (she was flicking her tongue every time the puppy approached her at the beginning), she took months to smile again in her cute relaxed way, and to date is still herding and sometimes really harassing her sister. Twice we found Olive badly bit on her face (correction bites?) when we got home, so now Chloe has to be in her crate when we are away from home. Olive’s resource guarding has improved markedly with a lot of work (and thanks to the wonderful things I had learned from your seminars and books!).
So I see your dilemma: how much compromise and management do you want to put up with in the long run? And don’t listen to anybody. This is your life and your home, and you are the only one who knows what needs to be done.
Lauren says
There’s a fine line between constructive criticism and judging you – don’t let some of these comments get you down.
I have no “authority” here other then my own experience as a dog lover and owner. Hailey & Crackers, two females who came together because we got married, snubbed each other at first but eventually grew to be close over a short period of time, with good signs from the beginnging. Slept together, ate together, played together, hunted together, etc. Hailey died at the age of 12 from cancer about 8 months ago. Crackers, at the age of 6, wandered around dazed and confused. As did my husband & I. Rather implusively, we replaced Hailey under the guise of “wanting a friend for Crackers.” We didn’t mean to do that and at the time, we really didn’t think we were doing that when we brought Ginny, a 1 year old rescue dog with unknown history, into our home.
Biggest mistake of our lives.
From the moment we met her on the side of an interstate (she traveled 8 hours to come to us), our hearts fell. We knew this wasn’t the dog for us. But due to the circumstances, we had to no choice but to take her home. Over the next 3 months, we poured our heart, soul, time, effort, energy and money into her. We worked on training her several times a day, put her through basic obidence and worked many hours with a cpdt-ka trainer in our home and lots more on the phone with my cousin (who lives far away but is also a cpdt-ka trainger).
In the end, it didn’t work out. We returned her to the rescue – which was truly the hardest decision of our lives. And while the rescue people themselves were really nice to our faces, many other people in our lives were very cruel and judgemental. It hurt a lot, esp. on top of how much it hurt us to give up Ginny. It wasn’t easy but it was the right thing to do.
Happy ending: one of her foster homes (she had two) wished she had adopted her and was thrilled that in the end she could.
Other happy ending (one we never would have predicted): our original dog, Crackers, is flourishing and blossoming as an only dog!!! So, we are just going to try and be a one dog household and go from there.
Best of luck to you! And while reason, logic and fact is all fine & dandy in science – feelings count in real life. Trust both your extensive training and your gut when you make your decision and know that at least one of us out here will fully support you either way!
Ella says
I logged on here just now, in floods of tears searching if there was some possible way I could contact you and ask your advice about my girls. I have a mix lab(3yrs) and a dogue de bordeaux (2.5yrs). I really am so upset I don’t know what to do and then I read your blog entry and it answered a question for me. I wanted to know if there were ever dogs that could just not live together, it seems there are. I’m not making much sense, a bit emotional..sorry..I’ll explain. I got my lab first a couple of years ago and then got a present of the dogue about 2 months later. The lab was quite dominant from the start but they both played together a lot. The lab always seemed to be primarily attached to me while the dogue was primarily attached to the lab!
They always seemed to play together okay, play-fighting more than I would have liked but it never led to anything more than playing so I was advised to let them at it. The lab was neutered a long time ago but the dogue isn’t and she has just had a phantom pregnancy. In the past few months I’ve noticed that the dogue seems to be trying to be more dominant. The lab doesn’t seem to mind too much but maybe i’m not reading the signs right. I do notice that the lab won’t eat before the dogue and sometimes the dogue is very possessive of her food or the lab even walking near her food.
Anyway, tonight for the 3rd time this month the dogue attacked the lab and then they fought. Each time it has happened they have been on their leads but it is terrifying and I don’t know what to do about it. I’m being a big girl about it but I really love my dogs a lot and it’s heart breaking to see them fight and try to tear eachother up. Tonight I managed to separate them but only because there were other people there, if this happened while I was on my own I don’t know what I’d do. I just don’t know what to do now, is it something I’m doing that causes the dogue to get aggressive? Is it something the lab is doing that I’m not aware of? I can’t figure out if there are any signs leading up to it, this evening we’d just been for a long walk with no problems, then stopped to chat to my friends at the tennis court and after a few minutes boom! All hell broke loose! It’s been over an hour since it happened but I still have them separated because I’m worried the dogue will go at the lab again, I tried to re-introduce them a few minutes ago and the dogue started growling straight away, thankfully the lab obeyed me and left the room immediately. I’m just at an absolute loss. Could this be because of her phantom pregnancy? Hormones? If she was neutered would this behaviour stop? Is there something I can do to stop this from happening? I’m really sorry to everyone for all of these questions but I just really am devastated at the thought that I might have to give up one of my dogs, but it’s not safe to keep them together if this happens, what if it happened when I was walking by kids or something!! I should mention that the dogue is over 8stone in weight so it’s not easy to pull her away.
I would really appreciate any advice anyone can give me, I know this is not what your blog is for Patricia, I’m so sorry, I read your blog all the time and have so enjoyed hearing all about Hope and Willie and the sheep! I’ve never commented before, I don’t feel I even have a right to, I know so little. Maybe I’m not qualified to have a dog, but I do love my dogs so much, I would do anything for them. God, I’m sounding like a real mess here, I apologise once again. If there was anything I could do to alleviate the aggression in the dogue I would do it immediately, whatever it takes to keep her happy and relaxed. She’s such a pleasant dogue the rest of the time, all she wants to do is sleep and be petted!
Again, I would really appreciate any help or advice,
Ella
yoursecretlittlesister@gmail.com
Kelsey says
I have two dogs, and like you, I got my second dog (Nellie) in part because my first dog (Lucy) was/is to some extent still reactive and extra-sensitive to the presence of other dogs. Living with other dogs seemed to help her balance out her relationship with her own species; I’ve lived with her both with other dogs and solo, and I’ve seen a marked difference in the way she relates to the world when there’s another dog around full-time. I also wanted a classic go-everywhere, do-everything dog for myself and didn’t want to put excessive pressure on Lucy to fill that role. So I understand the dual impulses that can sometimes go along with getting a second dog. I was careful to pick a dog that would be a good fit for Lucy: I fostered Nellie first, and I also adopted her as a sub-adult, which gave me a little more insight into her personality. However, I can’t really attribute the fact that they’ve become good friends (rather than just solid roommates) to anything other than luck; there’s something about dog relationships that’s a little ineffable, I think, and as you say, I doubt there’s anything humans can do to force the issue one way or another.
The one thing I did want to say is that as much as my girls like and enjoy playing with each other, their relationship can be cyclic, which I think has as much to do with their various ages, developmental cycles and states of mind as anything else. I’ve had Nellie for a few months longer than you’ve had Hope, and there have been two patches where I’ve thought, “Oh no, their relationship is going south, they’re not going to be good playmates any more”. Both of my pups have a big competitive streak, and they’re both powerful, toothy dogs (and I am aware of the issues that can arise with same-sex groupings) so, like you, I’ve been game-planning what to do if their relationship changes down the road. However, once whatever the forces that were in play sorted themselves out (mostly boundary-testing during Nell’s more jerky adolescent phases), they went back to being pals. In a couple of situations, it’s become clear that what was a game for one dog was not for the other, and in those cases, they’ve abandoned the contentious games and figured out other ways to play. So while I understand worrying about what might lie ahead, I think it’s worth it to have a little faith in the process. They had a happy relationship when Hope first came home, and I bet that’ll carry them through the storms of Hope’s tween months.
Carolyn says
Tricia,
I am sorry Willie and Hope are not getting as long as you hoped. If by chance you do need to rehome Hope, I think if get another dog it should be a female, even a female puppy. I think a female pup may be better than an adult. Not only was Willie used to living with a female, I think insecure males work better with females because there is less innate competition between them. I will anthropomorphize here (I love to do it), but older brothers can put up much better with either bossy or adoring little sisters than they are with similar brothers.
I have always been really lucky with our dog pairs, they have always become good friends, but most of our dogs have been very social breeds and none have shown any unwarranted aggression towards other dogs. We have had some fearful/anxious pups, they have come into a relationship with confident friendly adult dogs and those relationship were perhaps the closest ones.
To Ella,
You are in a really tough situation here. When two females don’t like each other it is typically a lifelong feud. Males will bluster and argue about status, but once they agree on status, they usually can live together (even if not always happily). But females in the same home who don’t like each other will want each other dead. The Dogue is reaching the age of social maturity now and will be increasingly willing to claim the leader position, and if she is having false pregnancies, she may have a hormone imbalance. Add that to the fact that she is of a fighting breed (according to Desmond Morris), I think you have a serious problem here. Look to find a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist in your area, but be willing to consider rehoming one of your dogs to possibly save a life.
Ella says
Update: After writing here last night I read a lot of websites about bitch-to-bitch aggression and did not find much good news about my situation. This morning (my times may seem a bit odd to you but I’m writing from Ireland) the dogs were fine with eachother, I had re-introduced them successfully last night and they had a peaceful nights sleep. I put their leashes on ready for our walk and then had a quick chat to their ‘Daddy’ (who had never seen any of the fights). All of a sudden the dogue went for it again, I wasn’t expecting it or prepared for it. We separated them after a minute but the lab had suffered even more damage. I was absolutely devastated all over again. Twice in 24 hours is just not okay. I rang around to a few local trainers to get their opinions and they all said the same thing, either give up one of them or keep them separated at all times. They said that bitch-to-bitch aggression can not be cured. I would love to think I could spend the next few months working with the dogue and improving her temperament towards the lab but I’m so worried now that she’ll get addicted to the adrenalin from the fighting and it’ll be all too easy for her to go at it again.
Today has been one of the worst days i’ve ever experienced. I brought the lab to the vet, she has puncture wounds and considerable bruising and swelling and she is nervous. She has never been nervous. I’ve had to think all day about what’s best for both of my baby girls. I don’t think it’s fair to either of them to try to keep them separate in my house, it’s not big enough, and I’ll always be worried that they might fight again. I’ve decided to let the dogue go to another home. It’s a very quick decision and I’m very upset about it, it’s literally like losing a part of me but I can’t live in fear of her attacking the lab and I don’t want to run the risk of the lab getting aggressive. Maybe I’m not doing the right thing, but I don’t see another choice. I’m now nervous around my dogs which is not okay. My dogue is not vicious towards any other dog and has never been towards a person. I’m truly hoping that in her new home she will be happier and more relaxed.
I’m sorry for taking up so much space here with my problems, thank you all for your support and advice.
Ella
Nancy says
It’s what Ella’s going through that helps the readers here completely understand the dilemma between Willie and Hope. Having dogs who don’t get along is a LOT of work; having dogs who don’t like people is a LOT of work. Years of management and vigilance can take its toll on every member of a household–furry or non-furry.
To be honest, it makes me very reticent about ever getting another dog. They can heal your heart and break it at the same time.
Good luck Ella (I think you are doing the right thing here) and good luck Trish. I totally understand.
Jenny says
Trisha-
I just found your blog, which is even more excited because I just finished one of your books. It’s clearly a popular place, and I thought I’d add my two cents. I recently adopted Skye, a 2 year old pitbull whom I had been fostering. My current dog, Parker, is a 2 year old mini schnauzer mix. He puts up with a lot, as I foster more or less constantly, and he rarely gets to choose his foster siblings. At first Skye seemed like his worst nightmare- she had no sense of her own strength and no social boundaries. Parker was constantly avoiding or correcting her, and she seemed content to endlessly harass him.
After about a month, Skye was ready to go up for adoption. But my family was in love with her, and her behavior had improved tremendously. I was faced with a serious dilemma- my dogs didn’t hate each other, but they were certainly not BFFs. But, like many people here, I decided to make her a permanent part of my life because she was very devoted to me, and trusted me above anyone else. Now, 4 months later, my dogs have grown to adore each other. Skye respects Parker (all 15 lbs of him) and Parker has found fun new ways to play with his klutzy sister. Their relationship has been slow to develop, but that is because Skye is a slow learner, and Parker assumes dogs are only here temporarily.
I wouldn’t count Hope and Willie out too soon, but trust your instincts. It isn’t fair to keep Hope around too much longer if he will be rehomed eventually. It is certainly a balancing act, and an incredibly hard decision. Honestly, I always recommend finding a great local shelter to foster from (I doubt they would turn you down). Parker was my 6th foster, Skye was my 9th. Every so often a dog will come along that you can’t let go of. Maybe Willie finds another BFF, maybe you do, but either way you’re helping dogs in need. Good luck!
Carolyn says
Ella,
YOU ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING! It is unfair the dogs to keep them them both and being a retriever person, I feel it is especially unfair to your lab.
However, do not rehome her to a home with another dog, especially not another female. She has shown she is willing to attack and seriously injure another dog, she should be an only dog. Also, let the adopters know about her attacks so they take precautions around other dogs.
s says
@ Ella – my heart goes to you. You had to make a hard decision very quickly, but you are doing the right thing. Make sure that all the info you have goes with the dog you are giving up.
Good luck and hoping your lab recovers physically and emotionally, as do you. This type of thing can really scar you so make sure you address that so you aren’t acting fearfully when you and your lab come into contact with other dogs.
Melinda says
Thank you so much for sharing about this situation. I have appreciated and enjoyed reading and learning about the different experiences in multi-dog households as I am considering adding a dog to my home. I want another dog for myself and for my male GSD (5 yrs old) but one of my main concerns is how it will affect the dynamics of our “very” happy household. Buddy is a GREAT dog and every thing is very easy with him. We have lots of visitors that often bring their dog(s) to stay when they come. He loves other dogs and plays well with them but my husband seems to think he is happy when they are gone to be back to his “only dog life”….I’m not so sure. I worry about bringing another dog in and it not being the “right fit”.
As always, thanks so much for you honesty and willingness to share. I learn soooo much from your blog.
Frances says
Ella – you have acted wisely and swiftly in the best interests of both your dogs.
I have – so far – been very lucky with my two. Sophy was only 10 months old when I got Poppy. I had intended to wait until she was at least 18 months old, and then to get a male pup rather than a female, but Sophy had developed excellent social skills by 10 months, and was keen to play with every suitable dog we met – it felt the right moment to bring another pup into the household. They took to each other from the first (I introduced them at my sister’s house). They are similar in size and weight, and both of companionable, comparatively easy breeds (a papillon and a toy poodle). I do watch for any escalation of play fighting into something too excited, and interrupt if necessary, but they have only ever had the most minor of squabbles. We are now coming up to one year together – the next six months will see Poppy through to full adulthood. I am very nervous of making too many claims of good behaviour, but I hope that each week of good experiences is one more week of proofing against future issues.
Trisha, like others I wonder if what your household is missing is a canine matriarch. I am very much a beginner in understanding dog behaviour, but from your books it would seem that there has usually been an older, high-status female holding the centre on your farm. I have absolutely no idea how one would go about finding, or introducing, such a dog …
Soraya says
My three year old male american eskimo dog, Yukon, is very picky about his friends. He grew up going to doggie daycare and is good with other dogs when off-leash, but he likes to play hall monitor (watches play, barks at them if they play too rough, etc), and can be a bit standoffish with other dogs. If a game of chase starts up he will play with all sorts of dogs, but there is something different about his true “friends.” We are moving, and it breaks my heart that he has to say goodbye to one of his very closest friends, a 150 pound Mackenzie River Husky. My little 35 pound fluffball absolutely adores this dog. They play chase and wrestle, taking turns as to who chases who, which dog is “top dog” in wrestling, etc. The size disparity is such that Yukon can stand under this dog’s chest and tuck his head under the big dog’s chin. After playtime, they lie down to cuddle together and rub muzzles. I have seen Yukon show this special affection to only one other dog, my brother’s female boxer. Yukon was still just a puppy the last time they saw each other, but he will also cuddle with her, and used to lick her mouth. I didn’t realize the true extent of dog friendships until I saw the differences in Yukon’s behavior with his best buddies vs his acquaintances.
At home, Yukon has a “little sister,” my 18-month-old female american eskimo puppy, Kiska. I got Kiska at 9 weeks old as a puppy for me, but also as a playmate for Yukon. It took them a few days to start playing together. She would run up and bark at him, then immediately run away and hide under the table, then repeat. He just laid down watching her, with this big open goofy smile on his face, as if to say “what a crazy little thing!” Over the past year, they have developed a very strong bond. They play regularly together, and Yukon sometimes consents to let her cuddle next to him. When boarding, he howls if separated from her for too long and he doesn’t know where she is. If she gets scared, he will come up and bark at whatever scares her. She “takes care of him” — checks on him, licks his ears, comes to get me if she thinks he needs something, and asks me to call him into the house if he’s been out a long time in the cold (he LOVES the cold, and could lay out in the snow for hours). But she can also be a little tyrant. Even though she is half his size, she takes chews out of his mouth, and will take toys and things away from him and “not let him” play with them. (Kiska is the first dog I ever saw “claim” something just by looking at it. Yukon is very respectful of this and will not take something that she has “claimed.”) For toy play, I play with them separately, because Yukon is too much of a gentleman in letting Kiska get the toy, even when I can see that he wants it. When she steals his chewies, Yukon will come to me and bark once to let me know, and I just take it back from her and return it to him. On rare occasions he will show her his teeth if she tries to steal a chew or food, and she backs off immediately. But more often, they call me in to adjudicate.
I play with my pups daily and train them in agility. I have a very strong bond with each of them, but that bond is totally different in kind from their relationship with each other. I like that they have each other for companionship when I’m not around, and for doggy playtime together. As much as I strive to understand them and to communicate clearly with them, I’m not a dog, so they will always understand each other and communicate with each other more fully than I can with either of them. But that’s ok with me!
Steve B says
I see a few posts asking why dogs should have a canine best friend. In my opinion, it’s similar to all the silliness around people communicating with dogs as a dog does. There are just some things we can’t do and some voids we as people can’t fill. I love playing with my dogs, but I have never sniffed their butts, checked out where they have relieved themselves (except to make the occasional check for worms in the poop) and I don’t nip at them when we play. I don’t know where I fall as far as my dogs being best friends, but I think it is important that dogs have other dogs to play with.
That said, my experience is this: Talbot was 10 when we got Puck, who was about a year. They had a lot of fun playing together and Talbot found new life with such an energetic presence in the house. When Talbot passed, Puck immediately changed. He became more stoic, played less, and became more observant of the goings on in and around the house. He was about 6 at this point. We brought Duncan into the home a few months later when he was not quite 2. Although Puck and Duncan play, it’s never to the degree that Puck played with Talbot. Puck is usually the one that ends the play by leaving the room, yard, or finding somewhere to lay down. I’ve always taken it to mean that Puck found such things silly. Since Talbot passed away, he has more important things to do than all the frivolous playing. I’d love to know what he’s actually thinking.
Lauren Mack says
I think it takes a big person to admit that a dog is not right for their family, so I respect any choice you make Patricia. A lot of us try to force a relationship to work, that just does not. I have 5 dogs. I would say out of all of there, there is about 2 really good BFF friendships. Playing, snuggling, following, certain dogs just seem to connect better with other dogs. My heart boy, Buddy, seems to not be BFF with any of them, but rather he enjoys to play with other male dogs that are his size… yet he never plays with any of the dogs in my pack. I think what everyone needs to remember here is that not all dogs work with all families, and it’s important to have a good fit, especially in working dogs.
Annie R says
I have definitely seen a few instant, but then deep and lasting, friendships between dogs, both living together and not – one of the best was my very bossy, edgy Aussie/Husky mix female who would jump for joy and bound down the street beside her “paramour”, a neighbor’s chunky male black Lab who was a very easygoing but flirtatious personality. And this same female had a “brother” at home who was completely her counterpart and yet her opposite, a lanky, ugly-mutt Shepherd mix, easygoing and sweet as pie, who would rassle around with her for hours, each diving to mouth one another’s front legs over and over, then finally they would collapse in happy exhaustion (this behaviour declined a LOT after they were about 7 and 9 years old but was quite frequent through middle age.) I think these “magic” relationships cannot be created by us, though; it’s like the instant best friend you make once in a great while, no one can really predict it.
I have also made two very bad decisions in adopting older “rescue” dogs who did NOT get along in my household at all; I worked quite a bit on behavior with both, for two to four months, and in each case the energy in the house just got worse and worse over time, and I returned each into the shelter/rescue they came from. These were both dogs who had not had good socialization as youngsters & not led balanced lives, and brought a lot of tension to living with other dogs. It would have been not at all fair to my present dogs to say “well, I’ve made this decision, and it’s for life and now we all have to live with it forever”. It’s not acceptable to have the resident dogs suffer like that.
Both rescues would have been much better as “only” dogs and I learned a lot about asking questions and BELIEVING what is told about background (one of these was a reported “biter” and NO ONE BELIEVED IT because he happened to get along well in a foster home with one other dominant female; then turned completely competitive and ugly living with my very submissive old male Shep mix, who ended up bloody following a fight in my own living room at 1 in the morning. Both adoptions were due to my wishful thinking about helping a dog in a bad situation, vs. really looking at what would work with the dog(s) I already had; and since learning this lesson I have made two very good pairings in a row between elderly dogs who really needed homes and got along great with the already-residing, just-bereaved older dog in my household. Live and learn!
It can be great to have three, but I found it hard to do anything outside of “dog-mom” stuff in that situation; two is better for me as they can keep each other company and I can have a bit of a life outside work and dogs (I also am single, and work full time at something where they cannot come along; Trisha, you have a partner, a country property, and work that can involve them at least some of the time.) Having made two successful pairings I think I will not try introducing a third dog into a pair that’s working, it’s just too risky. I do believe that in adopting middle-to-older-in-years dogs, one has to accept that they come with some baggage, and that a bad combination can be devastating to both their physical and emotional health, so it’s helpful if one can arrange with the shelter or rescue, or former owners, a two-week trial to see if everyone settles in well together. And “settles” is more how it seems to go in older dogs, not so much playing, etc. But if they will take treats side by side, and not fight if a treat bounces off one old nose and the other gets it, and take naps nearby one other, and greet you together with both happily crowding each other to get to you yet staying relaxed and joyful, well, that’s a pretty good bond in an older pair.
But, I still fantasize about having a really bonded pair that obviously love one another; and to get that again I may look to adopt an already-bonded pair that needs to be placed together. Have you figured out yet that I don’t have a lot of breed preference? Just want a solid enough size to walk far and give full-out hugs without breaking them, but not so big as to need to be lifted by 2 people if they get sick or injured. And someday I’ll probably see a wonderful spontaneous “romance” again, like the Aussie-husky and the Lab, but who knows? If/when I do I’m going to take LOTS of video.
Anyway, just a final thought; one famous animal writer has said that it’s very fortunate that dogs can be rehomed, because it saves a lot of their lives when behaviour problems or owners’ circumstances make it impossible to stay where they are. To that, I say, hear hear! and so does my Teddi, a 14-15 yr old Aussie, who came to me two years ago when his elderly owner had to go into permanent residential care herself. He has been a gentleman and a sweetheart, and I only hope that when it’s me in that situation, that I can find someone to take my “baby” on as their own. He is teaching me about love and acceptance in the face of a long slow aging stage, and thank goodness no one said “well, she can’t have him anymore so now no one can” when his mama had to give him up and had no family who were willing to take him. Thank goodness for rehoming, and Petfinder!
Hope all works out well, Trisha, and that you get to see Willie be happy with the new guy as time goes on. But if not, I bet you will work out something wonderful for all concerned.
Becky Tilton Orem says
I’m new to comment but will say that I thoroughly enjoy reading your blogs and others comments. All are informative and interesting. I am compelled to write today as I know the difficulty in trying to fit a new dog into established dog’s routines. I have shown Siberian Huskies in conformation and had them as certified Therapy Dogs for years as well as running them in sprint sled dog races. All of this necessitates multiple dogs. Serious dog drivers cull dogs (I know the politically correct term is re-homes) to teams in which they are better suited. In addition to sled dogs, we own a small ranch and we’ve had a brilliant Australian Shepherd X Border Collie female who has been an excellent herder, companion, and leader of our main yard and ranch (the Aussie does not run with the Siberians) She was extremely dominant in her younger days and made life horrible for a dear softer dog. We did not re-home either dog but had to keep them separated in different runs and yards as their dominant play escalated into suture-requiring fights. As all of you know same sex canines can be aggressive towards each other and especially bitches. The Aussie is now almost 14, can no longer herd and is no longer THE DOMINANT BITCH on the block. The other girl has passed on. I write to say that rehoming is sometimes the best for all involved and requires much courage and much insight. From reading your blogs I know without a doubt that much thought, work, and consideration will go into this process. I wish you the best.
Pat Wildgen says
I just checked in on this today. I’ve been following Hope’s development b/c I have a 5 month old Golden puppy [Kyla] and a nearly 12 Daschund mix [Chelsea] who is totally devoted to me. We adopted her 10 years ago and taught her to behave appropriately around and tolerate other dogs. She has never had any interest in playing with them. We already had a 6 year old sweet mellow Golden and they were bonded to us and co-existed pleasantly with each other. George died 4 years ago and Chelsea has loved being an only dog. It has been hard for her to have a puppy take up so much of my time and energy. She let Kyla know immediately that she was not interested in play and they seem to be working out a a similar co-existence. That is the best I can hope for. I got Kyla b/c I passionately wanted one more Golden. I’ve watched closely for signs of excessive stress and wariness on Chelsea’s part. It’s there occasionally but I think they will be OK. We let Chelsea have some overnights at our daughter’s home when she needs a break!
Kristy says
Thank you again Trisha! I have been following this whole story with Mick, Hope and Will and am a huge fan of yours. I agree with Sherry to an extent since I see people who are ligitimately rehoming animals for the animal’s sake get raked over the coals and conversely seen people work with and keep animals that are a very poor fit because people take the “forever” home concept too far and believe every problem can be cured if the owner puts more effort into it. I have seen many rescues, breeders and trainers alike who’s motto seem to be that the right dog is any dog, when that just isn’t true.
The reality of finding a fit for a specific case like Will’s and a fit that works for your purposes as well can be a real bear. I do hope it all works out-but thank you so much again for being so open and being so honest about things that many are not willing talk about in the dog world.
karen says
I can relate to this, wanting a friend for the older dog and it turns out the younger dog is a pushy thing that takes over the world. I have a 10 year old Border Collie X Newfoundland mix dog who is the dearest thing to my heart and I always regretted not getting him a companion. This summer he took a liking to a huge but painfully shy monster puppy at the park and we ended up adopting that puppy (10 months old and 110 lb already) I had hoped the puppy really was a Newfie mix as the rescue people said but the longer we have him I see the inconsistencies in his behaviour. What we have is a scared senseless guard dog with no social skills who looks to my older dog as a role model in life but also wants to overpower him if he can. The new dog is most likely a Caucasian Ovcharka (or something so similar it doesn’t matter, he’s a livestock guardian by any stretch of the imagination). I watch them together constantly and basically rescue my BC X if he seems stressed out or the big guy is jumping on him too hard. Seniority counts for a lot and Gossamer is 10 years old and fearless while Kodiak is a scared puppy still. Kodiak (the giant puppy) is respecting Gossamer’s status so far but I keep a close eye all the same. Gossamer does stand up for himself, he defends his toys, his food and his space but Kodiak is so big that he could easily overpower my older dog if he took a mind to do it. I am trying to find a balance somehow, Kodiak needs a strong and fearless role model to copy, he has been undersocialized and spent more than half his young life in rescue so he needs a friend like Goss and people to give him a chance. But at the same time my older dog needs protection from his young friend’s exuberance and boisterousness, the challenges for status and so forth. I want my dogs to get along and both be happy but it’s a struggle
Jen G says
A tough position to be in, for sure! I’m glad you’re keeping an open mind and focussed on doing the best things for the dogs.
This is what I really like about fostering dogs; I get to “try out” new dogs to see what kind of temperament works best for the humans, canines and felines in the house. It’s hard to create and maintain just the right vibe.
Good luck! I can’t wait to read more.
LS says
I feel for you deeply. Just last week I had to give up the sweetest, smartest collie puppy I
LS says
I should aslo say in reference to the above post, that there was no adjustment period, from the first week Roxy reacted well to Obi, and although it took time for her to be affectionate, she was never anxious or tense about him. She accepted him as if he’d always been there.