When I was seeing a lot of clients I could always tell when I was tired because I started working with the dog, rather than training the owners. Perhaps that’s the irony of language: It makes communication easier in one sense, and harder in another. Things were so simple and clear when I was working with someone else’s dog. Trying to influence the behavior of the people felt much more complicated. It is not that I didn’t enjoy it–I love people, they are one of my two favorite species. It’s just that it was harder to work with them than the dogs.
It’s no surprise then that talking to someone you’ve never met about their dog’s behavior is especially fraught. Whether it’s at the dog park, in the neighborhood, or at a dog class, we’ve all struggled with what to say to the person whose dog is terrifying ours, or whose dog REALLY doesn’t want you to pet him even though the owner is begging you to. I thought this issue was worth a discussion, given how often it comes up in the comment section. I’ll add in my own thoughts, but very much look forward to hearing what you have to say. I’m hoping for a benevolent interchange of constructive ideas about how to influence the behavior of others when one feels the need. I want to avoid piling on about “how stupid” other people can be. The foolishness of others may be rampant in some contexts, but just whinging about it never seems to help. Here are some of my thoughts, in hopes of initiating a constructive conversation:
WORK THE DOG, NOT THE PERSON. First off, do you need to intervene immediately because you think your dog is at risk? If so, I strongly advise forgetting about trying to influence the behavior of the other owner. Saying “Call your dog!” or “Get him away” presumes that the other person 1) believes that action is immediately necessary, 2) has the ability to act instantly and 3) has the kind of control over their dog that the action requires. Good luck with that. I’ve found it much more useful to ignore the owner and work with the dog, whether it’s a body block or tossing a handful of treats or turning and moving away to distract the dogs from a tense encounter. Yes, it’s polite to ask if you can give someone else’s dog a treat, but if an 80 pound Chessie is running full bore at my dog, ears pinned and hackles up, I’m throwing a handful of treats in its face and asking questions later. (Of course, none of this is relevant if the dog is actually attacking your own–see here for a discussion about handling serious dog fights.)
PEOPLE ARE ANIMALS TOO. Remember the value of positive reinforcement? I’m often amazed at how quickly people forget to use PR as soon as they turn away from their dog and start talking with a member of their own species. If the situation is not an emergency and doesn’t require immediate action, I always say something positive when I first meet someone’s dog, even if it is “Harvey has the most beautiful tail!” If you want to say something to someone about their dog’s behavior, you darn well better start with something good. (The exception, of course, is when an immediate intervention is necessary as discussed above.) I learned early on how defensive people can be about their dog, sometimes even more so than about their children. I had clients quit a class once because the trainer said something about the breed’s typical behavior. It wasn’t meant to be a negative comment, just a brief mention about the breed being “mouthy” because they were bred to retrieve. That was enough to send the owners out the door in a huff. That might be a bit extreme, but let’s face it: Whether we should or shouldn’t, it is natural to see dogs as extensions of ourselves, and criticisms of our dogs are never welcome. We can criticize our own dogs, but someone else’s? Not so much.
That’s why if someone’s dog is playing in an inappropriate and rude manner, I’m going to say “Wow! Chester is full of energy, isn’t he! I’ll bet he wears you out by the end of the day.” I might go on to describe my own dog as “sensitive” and “easily frightened,” and explain that it’s nothing against their dog, but I need to end the play session. Have I “educated” them about appropriate play behavior? No. Was this a good context in which to try to do so? Nope. It was my job to protect my dog and keep everything and everybody on an even keel. Which leads to my next point…
WHAT’S THE GOAL? Ask yourself. Why do you want to influence the other person’s behavior? If you want to protect your own dog, do so. Putting the other owner on defense won’t help anything and it might make things worse. Are you concerned about their dog? Perhaps their dog didn’t sit when asked and they jerked hard on the leash and screamed at it. Ouch, these situations are so painful to all of us. But you can’t go up to a stranger and tell them that they are abusing their dog. Sometimes you just have to walk away, painful as it is. Other times I’ve had some success by walking over (treats in pocket, always treats in pockets, heaven help me…) and commenting on what a lovely/handsome dog they have. “What breed is it?” I might ask. I may know perfectly well, but it doesn’t matter; the goal is to start a conversation. Or I might say, (lying through my teeth, yup, you heard it here) “Oh, I used to have a Saint Bernard/Poodle/Yorkie cross myself! That was the best dog! Can I give Rambo a treat?” And then Rambo and I have a little interchange and I walk away and leave it at that. Maybe the owner learned something about how quickly Rambo paid attention and did what I asked, maybe they didn’t. But either way I did not take it onto myself to be the dog police and tell someone how to handle their dog. It’s hard sometimes, but it is not our job to train other people’s dogs or raise their children.
Lest that sounds harsh, let me be clear that I am all in favor of helping people who want help, role modeling good behavior, educating people who want to learn, and being there for a dog who might need some clarification about what is expected. That said, we’ll all be most effective if we remember that 1) advice from strangers often feels like criticism, 2) sometimes it is easier to communicate directly with a dog, and 3) positive reinforcement usually works best. Here’s my last piece of advise, before I pass the baton on to you to hear your best ideas about how to defuse a conflict with another dog owner:
Picture me, a client and a client’s dog, out walking in a neighborhood. Be aware that the dog is frightened of unfamiliar people and we are out to do some counter-conditioning. The challenge in this process is that so many strangers want to walk up and overwhelm the dog, rather than toss treats from a distance. Here’s what I learned to say, as someone begins to swoop in to loom over the cowering Sheltie, or MiniPoo, or Border Collie, or Mastiff: “Oh thank heavens!” I say, as I move between the person and the dog. “I can tell that you are an experienced dog person! That’s just great, because this dog is afraid of strangers and needs someone who understands the importance of staying back and tossing treats rather than going toward the dog and scaring it! SO many people don’t understand that, except people who have lots of dog savvy like you! Would you mind helping us for just a moment and tossing some treats on the ground for Maggie?”
I learned to say this after hearing, many hundreds of times, “Oh, dogs just love me” (mostly women) and “I’m not afraid of dogs!” Both of these comments were always made as a person bent forward, hands outstretched, face moving laser-like toward a cowering dog in response to my request to toss treats. You gotta love training, no matter the species, right?
What’s your story? We’d all love to hear comments about your most successful (or unsuccessful) intervention. How have you learned to talk to others about their dog? Anyone ever talked to you about your own dog and set your teeth on edge?
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Spring is lush and gorgeous and cool. I love the cool weather, no complaints from me. I thought those of you following the Maggie/Willie relationship story would be interested to hear about a change in their behavior and how I handled it. Earlier I mentioned that Maggie and Willie play tug games with each other, and how happy that made me. Willie always loved playing tug with Lassie, and it’s a great way for dogs to exercise. Willie and Maggie also love playing racehorse with each other, and watching them run together is one of my greatest joys in life. However, after about a month or so, two things began to change. First, their tug games became less playful and more competitive. I told Jim that Maggie didn’t seem to be playing; she just wanted the damn toy. Her growls got lower and louder, her attempts to wrest the toy out of Willie’s mouth intensified. Willie’s face changed, in that he stood still and held his ground (while Maggie, jerked and twisted, put her paw on the toy and kept trying to grab it closer and closer to Willie’s mouth). Around the same time their chase games began to change. When running side-by-side, Willie began to snap at her as if to stop her. Finally, last week, Willie simply bit her while both were screaming down a steep hill at a dead run. Maggie yelped loudly and flipped to a stop.
Okay, enough. I decided that something had to change. Perhaps both were becoming too competitive. Or something. No matter what was motivating the change, it was time to intervene. Willie got a loud verbal correction for biting Maggie. I followed that up by body blocking him backward and asking “What do you think you are doing?” He hasn’t done it since then, although a few times I can see it coming and have said, in quiet, low voice “Willieeeeee….” I also began to intervene in their tug games, creating time outs when they didn’t themselves. Maggie is a very soft dog in some ways, but she is also determination personified, and she was simply becoming too aroused for her own good. I began quietly saying “Dogs, that’s enough!” Willie knows “Enough” to mean “time to stop doing what you are doing” and Maggie is learning it. I’ll give them a minute to calm down and let them start again.
I can’t definitely link my actions with their behavior, but it truly seems like they are more relaxed around each other again. Willie was beginning to look tense at night, but now he seems more relaxed. He stills needs to have his quiet time at night while Maggie is still going strong, but we are working out how to accomplish that and it is going well. Their chase games look gloriously fun again, with Maggie now leading the charge and always looking over her shoulder to make sure that Willie is running after her. It feels as though the two changes I’ve made have made a big difference, so I’m glad I made them.
Stay tuned for the next exciting episode of “As the Dogs Turn.” Meanwhile, the lambs are growing and the Oriole is whistling its flute-like song and the White Oaks are finally beginning to leaf out. Here’s one of my favorite trees, a White Oak which has been around for a long time. Decorating the ground below, left to right, is Lady Godiva and her lambs Salt & Pepper, Chess and his teenage mom Lady Baa Baa, and Holstein, mom Barbie & brother White Guy.
Here’s a close up of Barbie, Holstein and White Guy. I swear Holstein looks more like a calf than a lamb. Barbie almost died of acidosis a few days after the lambs were born, so we are especially happy to see her and her lambs doing so well. It was all rather nice of them to pose so nicely, don’t you think?
Frances says
Wonderful Spring photos! What breed are your sheep? They come in such an interesting range of colours and patterns!
I always try to compliment the dogs we meet – there is always something pleasant to be said. I call my tinies away if necessary by telling them not to tease the big dogs, which helps to keep things on an even keel, and try to find positive ways of explaining if I would prefer other owners to keep their huge uncoordinated adolescent pups at a distance – “a bit too bouncy” often figures! Children are different, I think, and a few minutes explaining that Poppy does not like hands over her head but loves to be rubbed on her chest while letting the child observe the difference in her behaviour, (she goes from pulling away to best friends in about 30 seconds once they avoid looming), plus thanking them for asking before approaching the dogs and for being calm and gentle, may help to reinforce good habits for life!
Carol Clark says
So agree Patricia! I had a client not return to class after I said “oh, that was a bit rude, wasn’t it ” when her dog made an absolute pain of himself greeting another dog to which she was completely blasé! I agree the best way to start any attempt to change things is to say something, anything, positive about their mutt first then phrase comments as questions – “what a super Westie, lovely coat. But he’s not looking very happy to see Fido there, is he?” Etc. When out and about amongst the great British public, I think empathy and subterfuge can sometimes help, “oh, I had a dog that did that. My trainer suggested….” Etc.
Your reminder not to get involved is also something I have to tell myself so often, but it can be so difficult too. I love your idea to go up for a chat and demonstrate a different way to do things. Good idea which I will use now! Mind you I also carry some business cards as well as treats so try to hand one out if I feel they may consider help in future. But with too many there seems little point!
Thanks for your interesting and thought provoking blog posts and hope to see you if you get back to the UK again sometime.
Kat says
Oh so very many things I want to say on this subject! I meet so many many people that have no clue at all and so many that I think are just flat out wrong in their interpretation of what’s happening. And all the persistent myths about dog behavior, that’s a rant in and of itself. I’ll try to restrain myself and not write a book here.
I find it helps me to keep two clear goals in mind. First and foremost is, as you said, keeping my dog safe. Second is to pass on one bit of knowledge that might possibly, in the best of all possible worlds, make the life of a dog better. In other words not expecting that I’ll be able to significantly change the way the person interacts with their dog but that I might be able to make them think a little bit or understand a little better what the dog is doing and why.
For example, saying to the person who has just corrected their dog for sniffing another dog’s behind “I’m glad I’m not a dog and don’t have to greet others with my nose. Still, I read somewhere (or heard or whatever) that dogs get most of their information about other dogs through scent; that for them it’s the equivalent of us getting to know other people by asking questions like where do you live, what’s your favorite food, how are you today, etc. So if that’s how they get to know each other I guess I can look the other way and just be glad I can talk.” It’s very non-confrontational and chatty and begins by acknowledging their distaste for perfectly normal dog behavior as a human issue that I can relate to. And because I’m sharing the information that I learned somewhere else I’m not criticizing their dog management skills and setting myself up as some sort of expert I’m sharing something interesting that I had to learn too. I do my best to relate to the person as a fellow traveler in the world of dogs and not as if I’m someone who knows best.
It helps that Ranger is exceptional and people are naturally drawn to him. Because he is wonderful and has great manners it isn’t uncommon for people to ask me for training advice. I’m happy to help where I can with things I’ve learned along the way, books, websites (including this blog), and recommendations for local trainers I know to be good.
There’s one man at the dog park that drives me crazy. He’s set himself up as a trainer and about 90% of what he teaches I don’t have a problem with but the other 10% is a mix of dominance crap, pseudo scientific garbage, and a lack of ethical foundation. He came to the park one day with his dog wearing a shock collar because he “wanted to take his training to another level.” I had to leave. Sometimes when he’s pontificating to someone about how dogs have to know who is in charge before they will behave and how you have to be really firm with them to get their attention I’ll do something to draw attention to myself (having a rock in my shoe or being startled by a bee or something that gives me reason to move in a way that makes people glance over to see what I’m up to) and put Ranger through the same behavior repertoire that this guy is encouraging his ‘client’ to order their dog through. I can do it without ever raising my voice above a whisper offering a clear counterpoint to everything that’s being preached without ever offering any confrontation or argument. Yes, you can get you dog to do things by speaking firmly and loudly but look over here and see that it isn’t required.
I also spend a lot of time speaking directly to the dog. If I’m commiserating with the dog whose tail is tucked firmly between his legs about the overwhelming nature of having ten dogs all trying to say hello at once the person might realize that the dog is legitimately overwhelmed and in the best of all possible worlds might intervene the next time to make the greeting committee take turns.
I don’t know how much difference I actually make but I feel like I’m doing my small part and maybe just maybe sometimes the people learn a little something.
Mungobrick says
A very helpful post – it is so hard to maintain your composure and concentrate on what your dog needs rather than get into a futile back-and-forth with an owner. So many owners seem to be oblivious to the signals their own dogs are giving and to expect them to understand your dog’s is impossible. My worst experience was being at a dog park and an owner saying to me “oh, just leave them alone, they’ll sort it out themselves” while my dog (who was, and is, actually very good with other dogs) was plastered against a fence, teeth bared, with his dog and three or four others launching themselves at her. I didn’t stop to bandy dog training tips, we rescued Daisy and haven’t been back…
Love those lambs!!
Margaret McLaughlin says
Want to second what Tricia said above about using positive reinforcement on the humans also. I attended a (wonderful) training seminar at the guide dog school I puppy-raise for this past weekend, & one of the topics was how to deal with “Grabby Hands”–those people who CANNOT keep their paws off your puppy in a public setting. Step 1) quick intervention. Shove a treat in the puppy’s face & quickly lure her backwards. Once you’ve got some distance, if possible, Step 2) ask the person for their help in training your puppy, in a way that’s appropriate for that stage of training. It might be walking towards you & stopping 5 feet away while you click & treat if the puppy holds her sit. Might be a quick head stroke or touch on the rump.
Cliché tho’ it is, you do catch more flies with honey.
Candy says
Thank you so much for this advice!! I get so incredibly irritated while on walks in public because, it seems, every dog owner has their unruly dog on a flexi. And, every one of those owners seem to “forget” that those things actually lock into shorter leashes. Then owners laugh at how cute their dog is while it jumps all over my very large dog… My poor Panda is throwing warning signs that, I would think, anybody could recognize. But, like you stated, not everyone is dog savvy, or even aware of a potential problem they’re creating. I’m a very, tell it like it is, type of person, which honestly hasn’t gotten me anywhere… It usually is completely misconstrued into a problem with MY DOG not being friendly with others (which is the farthest from the truth). So, next time, I will simply & casually, change sides with my dog, to allow him space from the unruly flexi leads & keep on walking, giving him more treats & “spilling” a few for the tiny dogs barking & lunging… I use chicken… What dog could turn that down:) Thanks Patricia!!
Nelline says
Excellent post. Thank you!
Aliesha says
I am so glad to hear that others get overly sensitive people, not that I wish you to be getting them, but it makes me feel that it’s not always something I said. Sometimes you can say things and they get blown way out of proportion. Like the mouthy lab comment. It’s also good to be able to see your take on a new set of dogs and their lives, their ups and downs. Thanks for keeping it real!
EmilyS says
Agility competitors often bemoan how common it is for their trainers to be rude/mean/abusive to them while promoting entirely positive training techniques for the dogs……
Dezi says
I could use some advice, maybe someone has a good idea of what I can do the next time this situation pops up…
I live right next to a wonderful walking trail, with lots of people walking dogs, riding bikes, skateboarding and so on. There is one human in particular who rides a horse with her Chow X off leash. He seems like a lovely, sweet dog; however she doesn’t make any attempt to keep him under control and it’s kind of ruining the trail for everyone. I have heard many complaints about her, from bikers who don’t want a dog running in front of their vehicle, and dog people who are unsure of what this unleashed dog may do or how their dog may react to Mr. Chow. The first time I ran into her was last year when my Dane/Bernard mix was still alive. He had severe dog/dog problems and I spent months doing BAT just to be able to walk him by another dog. We were on our walk and I could see well down the trail, I saw them and called to her “My dog is a big jerk, can you leash your dog?” She yelled back that my dog shouldn’t be out without a muzzle if he wasn’t good with other dogs. Mr. Chow trotted right up to us, I put my body between the dogs and pleaded with her to leash her dog. She seemed to care less that my Dane was going to kill her dog when he got into leash range. She sat on top of her horse and yelled at me about how horrible my dog was and told me that Odin shouldn’t be allowed out of the house. I yelled at her dog things like “NO” “GO HOME” “GET” etc. and with Odin in full freakout mode Mr. Chow decided it was better to walk on. I then preceded to yell at the woman about leash laws and how her dog could have been hurt. It did nothing but get more yelling back from her. That incident sent Odin back a lot in our training. I met her again just a month ago, on her horse, with Mr. Chow off lead. I was skate boarding with my Pittie. I stopped so I wouldn’t crash when Mr. Chow approached and body blocked him without saying anything to the woman. She yelled at me again with the same line “Your dog shouldn’t be allowed out of the house if he isn’t friendly”. I tried to keep my cool and answered that Titan was friendly, but he was working and I didn’t want him greeting other dogs on leash. She had many more rude things to say…
So, how do I approach her? I don’t know what to do… or how to talk to her… and I have talked to other people who have the same problem. She has basically alienated everyone on this stretch of the walking trail, but seems to think that everyone else is the problem.
Annie says
Right after I gave my husband your book, For The Love of a Dog, he came back from visiting our neighbors and said “I’ve decided to stop petting their dog, she is really uncomfortable with it even though they drag her over to see me! And I think we should give them that book.” We did give them the book, and they took it very well because it just seemed like a nice gift. Also the name was sweet- love and all that. So perhaps we should just be passing out copies on the street? Since that is not really practical I tend to just blame it on my own dog. I will say they are scared, or not friendly. We don’t go to dog parks so most of our off leash situations with strange dogs are on trails where it is pretty easy to just keep things moving, or to stop my dogs behind me and block the oncoming dog until I can assess the situation.
Debbie Hansen says
Ms. McConnell I must say I always appreciate and love your books and posts. I have become a Certified Obedience Trainer, but along with that they should also hand out a Phycology Degree for People.
I was once told by a very good friend who is also a Trainer, don’t over complicate it, dogs are pretty simple animals. Once I took his advice, I must say I feel like I am making a better connection with my Clients.
I teach them about “Leadership, Structure, and Consistency” in every aspect of the dogs life. That is what they need more than anything, with that also comes the Love. Love because they can start to bond better with their pets. Bonding because the dog is listening to them, and not behaving badly. Which makes everyone happy even the family pet.
I am so glad you share your information and all of your books I go to as a reference all the time. You have made me feel more confident knowing that someone is sharing and believes in the same Positive Reinforcement that I teach.
Best Regards, and keep writing
Debbie Hansen, CDT
Rachael says
I took two of my crew to Petsmart today and had a young man maul my puppy–I mean literally maul. He grabbed her cheeks like those horrible grandmothers in comedy movies and wiggled her head around while cooing how cute she was. I adopted this puppy last week at 4 months old and she had been poorly taken care of and socialized. She was very timid at first but now does very well when we go out. It was one of those moments where you feel physical pain for your dog. I actually ended up just saying “thank you” and backed the cart up (she was in the cart) while he was in mid-pet. I then subtly encouraged my people-loving, mature dog Quenya to move forward and distract him. He obviously wanted to keep petting the puppy but I body-blocked him (works with people too!) and then walked away after he had petted Queni.
After that, for my puppy’s sake I asked one of the store employees to feed her a treat so that she ended with a more positive people experience.
Linda says
Very helpful posts. My “problem” arose when I took two small dogs to a dog park without a ‘small dog’ area. They had a wonderful time chasing their mini balls with few sm./med. pups but when the big guys ….4 at a time were let loose while owner returned to secure the car. The poodle cowered under me, had to be picked up and Big Guys kept the ball and mouthed it over and over. We left without the balls…could not get them release them. Two weeks later, I’m confronted by the woman-one dog with lg bandage: “He swallowed tennis balls. Had to have major surgery!”
I don ‘t know if they were OUR balls, but I was sorry to hear of it.
We found a quiet, shaded dog park. A week later, big dogs were running about in the new park because it was cooler (heat wave), shaded, less dogs. We left and only visited when they were not there and balls only used them when very few dogs were present Miss you on WPR but love this site!
Kim Laird says
My story: I have learned to try to ask questions, rather than straight out tell someone what I think they should do. I will admit that I gasped and told someone not to walk their dog on a choke collar. The puppy was only 8 weeks old. Sad….
And yes, many times people have commented on my girl’s behavior. She is a very up-top and lively personality, especially as a busy puppy. She was probably the busiest puppy I have ever had, very active, very easily overstimulated and very impulsive. And nearly every dog person I knew wanted to give me advise about it, and it was almost always wrong and almost always involved pinching, hitting, jerking (harshly), and/or shouting.
I knew what I was doing, but because I used positive methods and would often distract her or ignore unwanted behavior it took a bit longer. And she needed to grow up and physically mature. She has great manners now, almost never jumps up on people (and people constantly ask her to!), and is a great family dog. Things people would stay were, “Boy, your dog really needs some obedience lessons.” and “I could fix that problem you’re having in two seconds.” I actually snarled at a friend who said that to me, saying, “People like you who say things like that are usually the worst dog trainers… ”
Harsh, maybe, but it stopped her in her tracks. I doubt I changed her mind, but maybe she’ll think twice before making snappy comments (it wasn’t the first time she’d said it to me).
Management is really key for us… and that means doing my best to excel at Management of the situation, including people, other dogs, making sure my dog is not making other dogs or people feel uncomfortable or threatened, etc. And most of all, protecting my dog from well meaning people or dog owners. It is a shame people have to make disparaging comments.
Linda says
sorry! Good news! the little poodle I mentioned was rescued from the Adams puppy mill 5 years ago today. My granddaughter fell in love with her at Give Shelter Dane. “Please please?” she tells Mom. ” she’s the last little one to be put up for adoption! Doesn’t that perhaps MEAN something??? !” “NO! She had to be saved as evidence. ” Perfect. Today: food hog, A lover! Smart princess.
Marjorie says
I agree with keeping my dogs safe 1st and I’m always consciously scanning our environment and assessing body language. If it’s a serious charge I step in and block, but just a rude or clumsy approach I’ll make like I’m stepping forward to greet the incoming dog with a happy voice and the dog usually shifts their attention to me rather than rushing my dogs. One of my pet peeves is when I’m being jumped on and harassed by dogs looking for treats and the I get the owner implying that it’s my fault because I have treats. I usually say “oh yes, I do have treats and I always carry them so that my dogs don’t bother other people for them, they know to come to me:)” I do believe in saying something positive about someone’s dog and engaging them in conversation. When I can see that they are having problems I ‘ll say, “oh, my dog had a similar problem (whether they actually did or not) and just give one positive tip on how I handled it (I don’t tell them how they should handle it). I like to ask about their dogs personality and I always mention what joy dogs bring to our lives and how smart and sensitive they are. Sad to say, I have left more than one owner standing there with a puzzled expression on their face, because that’s obviously not been their experience. I just hope it makes them think about another way of being.
Darin says
This thread reminds me of a trainer from my past. Amazing with the dogs – with the people, not as much. I was assisting in her class when a man popped his dogs collar as a correction. She saw him and politely explained why that was not appropriate and wouldn’t be ok in the class. He later popped it again – she explained a little less politely. The third time he popped his dog, she made a beeline for him (she was a VERY intimidating woman) and told him that if she caught him popping his dog again, she would put a collar on him and show him how it felt!! OMG, I could barely keep it together – one of the funniest and most horrifying moments I’ve experienced while training.
Kim Sykes says
Thanks for wonderful reminders!
My favorite was with my first rescued Border Collie, Audrey, who did not like and was uneasy around most people and had a history of biting… I would tell people that she preferred to just wave at them, rather than be petted, shake hands/paw or give hugs. A simple trick that she learned to do and get treats tossed to her by the new people.
Can’t wait to hear you again at APDT!
Susan Konold says
This was very helpful. I think that you are very creative in your behavior modification interactions with human owners. I have a maltese and, while walking (always leashed), we are frequently approached by large off-leash dogs. When it happens I pick up my dog. When the large dog owner notices, they typically respond with, “my dog is sweet, gentle, kind, safe”. This having happened so many times and my patience having worn thin, I now respond, “Mine isn’t”. They get the point and call their dog away.
Tatiana says
I was on the receiving end once, when my mongrel dog was 7-8 month old one very unpleasant person (trust me, I have good reasons for calling her that) who saw my dog for the first time ever expertly claimed that she was passive-aggressive because of the way she was playing with her mate, the pug. My dog was much bigger than him at that time and she was quite bullish to him, grabbing him by his rear legs or the tail, or mouthing his scruff and pulling him in excitement. It looked a bit too much to me as well (but nowhere near aggression), at the same time the pug absolutely loved it and wouldn’t leave my dog alone. From time to time she would also lie down for him and allow him to jump on top of her and she would expose her belly to him and then they would rest on the ground “hugging” each other all smiles. The woman said that my dog shouldn’t be allowed to meet other dogs, that she is awful and that I should get a trainer to correct the behaviour. Needless to say that I was fuming because it was so not true, and remaining civil was hard. I came back from the walk, thinking that I would never go back to that place again. While what the woman said was total rubbish, it did get me thinking… So I started reading more about the dog play and quickly realized that my dog could learn some manners. I started paying more attention to how my dog plays and breaking off the game when it became too agitated, I also made myself much more fun to my dog than the pug or any other playmate, which resulted in her increased focus and receptiveness towards me. Now my dog is 2.5 years old and she is an absolute star (her weakest area is chasing stray cats, we are working on it, but this one is very-very hard). All her doggie friends really like her and she is often the heart and soul of the gang. Above all she loves to run and it doesn’t take much to get her start a fun chase game with her friends. And the pug is still deeply in love with her, though she tends to ignore him now. As for that woman she has an extremely aggressive pitbull and the way she sometimes yells at her dog and yanks the leash makes my heart sink a bit. I guess the morale of the story is that behind any negativity and even unfairness towards you or your dog there may be something good for you to learn that will only make the bond with your furry companion stronger.
HFR says
If I’m being honest about myself, I would have to admit I suck at being nice to people who are not nice to their dogs. But it depends if I feel the person is just misinformed or is truly a sadist. For instance , if I was in the situation that Kat describes above, there is no way I would be able to keep my big mouth shut. I would have to interrupt the guy with my own experiences and opinions. Those kind of people just set me off. I’m sure Kat’s approach is a much better one, but I’m just too passionate about it to stay quiet.
On the other hand, if I’m dealing with someone who I feel may be open to advice but is just inexperienced, I take a gentler route. My favorite way to start a sentence is, “I just read about some new research where they found…” Or “Actually a new study says that…” I find most people have a hard time contradicting research and also, in a sneaky way, it takes the pressure off of me as a know-it-all. Hey, I didn’t say it, those scientists did!
It is so rewarding tho when you can make a difference. I recently met a guy with his new puppy Rottie. The guy was the macho type, but over the course of walking our dogs on the trail together a couple of times, I convinced him to change trainers. Cool.
If I saw someone really abusing their dog I would have to speak up. Also, when I see someone harshly leash jerking or smacking their dog, I will often put on a fake pleading tone and say “aw, don’t do that please” and hopefully at least get into a calm discussion about training. When it comes to dogs, I have a blind spot and I don’t always react the way I should and I have gotten very angry at people who are irresponsible and make the world a harder place in which responsible dog owners can live. I can have a temper and I will lose it on occasion when it comes to dogs and their treatment. I’m only human too, I guess.
Brian Brunner says
Great advice and sooooo needs to be said to sooooo many dog owners. It is frustrating to have your own training with your dog take a setback because of someone else’s lack of knowledge or just total ignorance of dog body language. Those damn retractable leash’s should be banned !!! Might as well just let them run amuck as have those things ! !
I carry a spray can of citronella/pockets of treats all the time ! My rescue mal just wants to be with me, walk with me, avoids/nervous/defensive to other dogs because of being chained out for so long before being rescued, and taunted/teased by off leash dogs. He will never start anything, but if started he will finish it, and then is the guilty party !!
Dusty Collins says
Thank you for a great topic and very interesting comments. When I was a new and inexperienced dog owner I was told very frankly – ” You know you can train your dog to behave better – walk more calmly, greet other dogs without such fuss” This from across the street where a small woman was desperately restraining her 2 Rotties. I actually appreciated the comment. She was sincere and helpful and I was clueless. I thought if I walked my dog enough, he would just learn how to be calm and be with dogs. I was the 7th owner/caretaker of this blessed pup in his first year of life! After one session with a positive dog trainer I was very impressed with what and how he learned. So…. sometimes being direct is OK. It really helped. In the course of his life, we learned to walk calmly and obediently off-leash together. I love to talk, and he would appear to listen – that delightful cock of the head – as if truly interested!! I would ask him to get on the sidewalk because a car was coming and he would move to the side (I had cued “sidewalk” to a move to my heel). I would sing song out a question about eating (breakfast? dinner? snack? etc.) He would respond to the tone, not the word so it looked as if we were having a conversation. Fun little party tricks. SO he appeared trained. THEN – when he had both knees replaced and we undertook gentle walks, I had a new appreciation for the fear of dogs offleash. I began shouting out – “my dog is recovering from surgery and can’t greet yours now”. Mostly effective, but I also body blocked and my dog began getting fearful of offleash dogs. Now I am much more sensitive to the various stages of a dog’s life/education/health. A good dog can be going through a bad time; a rescued dog can be learning to walk on-leash; a reactive dog can be trying to stay calm. I mostly use body language at first – greeting the other owner with a wave from a distance. Leashing up till I can ask – are you up for a greeting? or saying – sorry we can’t greet and play today, we are working on other things. Now that I am teaching my new dog-reactive husky to walk on-leash I appreciate this respect from others. There is always something new to learn and I appreciate the exchange of info if offered in a respectful manner.
Chris Vereide says
One day I was walking thru the parking lot at the training facility where I work. There was a couple struggling with getting a gentle leader on their dog. They were able to get it on the dog, but the dog started struggling to get it off, growling and showing teeth to the owners. Luckily for me, I was in the perfect venue to intervene. They were there for a class, so I introduced myself as one of the trainers at the facility (even though I was not the trainer for their particular class) and talked to them about counter conditioning their dog to the GL. They were very receptive to my ideas, mostly because they were there for training already and I was a trainer.
I have also tried to intervene, to limited effect, in areas besides the training facility when it looked like the dog was really stressed (caused by the handler’s actions) and/or in a possible abuse situation. Due to the low success rate of those interactions, I am more inclined not to do anything or to do somthing similar to the “can I give your dog a treat” routine even though everything in my being cries out for me to do something more.
Rebecca says
I have struggled with this. Not so much when I have my dogs, because then my concern is to keep them safe and I manage the situation to that end. With one dog being incredibly shy, that’s mostly meant getting out of the situation, so not much time to talk.
No, where I have problems is when I don’t have my dog with me and can actually observe other dog owners, and they are doing things that I think are very unhelpful for their dog, or when I am just asked my opinion when “talking dog” with someone, and they are doing something I find very unacceptable. I wonder if people could give me advice on what to do in these kinds of situations, and will provide two examples as case studies.
Case 1: I live at the end of the cul-de-sac, and am talking to my neighbors while they are out watching their kids play one night. One of my neighbors has a big brown dog that gate charges every time I walk my dog past his house, and has repeatedly redirected onto their second dog. Big brown dog is out playing with the kids when a stranger goes by walking their dog on leash. Big brown dog locks eyes on the on-leash dog, is stiff legged, tail erect, ears forward, hackles up, and then charges the on-leash dog. Big brown dog’s owner calls out “He’s friendly!” On-leash dog is looking away, curving away around its owner, and ground sniffing. And the on-leash dog owner stops and forces his dog to be sniffed all over by the big brown dog, while the on-leash dog is throwing out every appeasing signal I have ever heard mentioned. Big brown dog then wanders off. Given how incredibly clueless big brown dog’s owner is about dog body language, how do you start a conversation about how that wasn’t a dog “being friendly”, and that it could result in big vet bills if the big brown dog ever winds up doing that to a dog that decides a good offense is the best defense? Or should I have talked to the leashed dog’s owner instead? And to make the situation clearer, I hardly ever see the big brown dog’s owner interacting with his dog (although to be fair, I only see the dog when its outside, but that seems to be a large amount of the day), and when I do see them interact, it’s mainly owner shouting at the dog to stop barking. I have to admit, the only thing I did in that situation was resolve to never allow the dog to be around my dogs and body block if we were out and the dog was loose, but I couldn’t think of any way of telling someone that they were incredibly wrong about dog behavior.
Case 2: A new person was hired at work, who has an adolescent dog that is doing a lot of damage. Dog owners talk a lot about dogs, and I tend to gush about dog training, since I think it’s a lot of fun. When I heard that she was having trouble, I told her about my trainer, who I adore, so that she could get some help if she thought it was necessary. Her reply was that she was working with the dog’s breeder, who was teaching her to use a slip lead and flank rope. Which probably made me visibly cringe, and did make me mention that those were both pretty aversive training tools, and reiterate that my trainer would probably be able to give them equally good alternative techniques. But the breeder is either free or cheaper, and this person is talking about returning the dog if she can’t get the destructive behavior changed fast (which, given the amount that the dog has done, I can understand from a financial viewpoint), and I haven’t even see the dog and have no long history with the owner. So what do you do in that case, where I am going to be seeing this person on a daily basis, but not necessarily working directly with her?
Kiki says
Years ago, I saw a “purely positive” trainer/presenter give a gentleman attendee a real dressing-down at the Clicker Expo. I was suprised, amused, and bitterly disappointed all at the same time. Positive training works — I use it on my animals, my husband, my boss, and other dog trainers.
Michelle says
Thank you , again and again, for your kind words of wisdom. It is indeed very hard not to intervene when someone at the dog park hits their Pitbull on the head with the buckle-end of the leash (for being excited about being at the dog park) or when your neighbor leaves his Shih Tzu basically alone for 5+ days or an owner kicks her German Shorthair as it is going out the door in front of her at the vets (for being excited to see another dog). But you are right, they are not our dogs.
For the woman who kicked her dog, after a few minutes for calming down, I followed her out to her car and asked if she would like the name of a good trainer to help with the behavior issues she seemed to be having because her dog seemed otherwise to be a great dog and was certain beautiful. It didn’t exactly backfire but I don’t know how much good I did.
I also appreciated your comments on Willie biting Maggie and how you dealt with it. My 5 yr old Border X has starting nipping at my 8 yr old Husky X, sometimes for no apparent reason (sometimes it is because he is too close to her food dish and sometimes he is just walking by her). I haven’t been sure about how to handle it but have corrected her verbally. Next time, I’ll try blocking her and see what that does.
Thanks again!
Laura says
Ah…. people.
I guess I would say, because Seamus and I are so visible and everywhere in public, we get talked to a lot. You have to walk a line between assertive and kind as a handler because some people will not be detered from petting the dog, no matter how many times you ask them not to. In that instance, I just turn my dog away and say something like, we have to go now. It works. One situation in which I intervened was while at a conference for the blind. I was sitting in a hallway, chatting with a friend and I heard another guide dog handler becoming upset with his dog. He was giving it several directional commands and the poor dog was just as confused as his handler was, offering everything he thought he could. I came up to the handler and asked him where he wanted to go? He said he wanted to go out to the relief area. I gave him directions and that didn’t work, as the confusion began again. He came back to where I was and I suggested he use some non visual cues to orient himself, such as hearing the birds and traffic from the open door outside, or the smell of bleach coming from the open door to the relief area for the dogs. It wasn’t helping and I was saved by an instructor who saw what was happening and came to help. I don’t feel I did much good, but I felt I had to do something for the poor dog’s sake. If the dog had been a person, I’m sure frustrated tears would’ve started. Often times, people who come up to me, just want to talk about how they had a dog just like mine, or about how they think my dog is just amazing. I agree, he is, and I’ve found that they just want me to listen to them. Often, I do. I only don’t pay attention when we are at a street crossing. I do, have one question for others, especially other service dog handlers and puppy raisers who read this blog. This is the comment I get a lot. “Oh, my grandmother/niece/sister/brother/uncle/friend trains those dogs.” What does this mean? are they raisers, or do we have an influx of trainers in my home state of Minnesota I don’t know about? Do they mean Therapy dogs? I’ve asked them to clarify, but they can’t really give me an answer. The response is something like, oh, they take them out in public with those little jackets to train to help people… ok? I’m just curious because this comment gets repeated a lot and rarely can they give more detail about the relative who actually does train service dogs. I think the word “train,” can have multiple meanings here. When I hear “she/he trains service dogs,” I think of formal task training. Not that raising a puppy isn’t training, but there is a difference in what they are training for.
Donna says
When I first got my 18 month old rescue golden Spencer, I had many interactions with dog/people teams that were less than helpful. Spencer was extremely dog reactive, especially with small dogs, and no matter how much I tried to yell to the person over his snarling/snapping/foaming displays ‘not good around other dogs’ they would insist on trying to approach us. We started to walk earlier in the am & later in the pm to avoid some of this while we attended training classes. I learned that the best & most effective thing I could do was to focus on what I had control (sort of) over, which was myself & my dog. We had many, many training classes, where we learned a great deal of how to focus on each other & included many, many, many treats, which I always carry with me. Now, at age 6 and half, Spencer is a certified therapy dog ( I know!!) who is particularly fond of playing with, yup, smaller dogs. I get all mushy inside when he lifts his head to look at me when he sees another dog/person team walking towards us & I happily reinforce him for doing so every time.
Barbara says
I’ve had to become much more alert around other dogs and their owners since my pooch developed occasional aggression issues after a couple of run-ins with really aggressive dogs. She was super-chill with all dogs before and now I’m working to counteract these new tendencies so people don’t think of us as the crazy dog and owner.
What surprises me is how people let their dogs approach even after I tell them she might go after their dog. It might be because she looks really sweet (she’s a Westie mix). Usually, all I have to do is say, “She can be a little unpredictable.” and folks understand. But more than once I’ve had to say to owners who let their dogs come closer anyway, “Please, go, she might hurt your dog!” and I just get puzzled looks. Once, when that didn’t work and the guy was encouraging his dog toward mine as I led her away, I had to be more forceful than I like, waving my arm and almost shouting, said “No!! Keep going!”
The worst was when we were walking one morning (in an urban area with several school children/parents on their way to school) and a tiny off-leash yorkie puppy came flying up to my dog so fast that I couldn’t pick my dog up or pull her away in time. She was startled because she was intensely sniffing something, and sure enough snapped at the yorkie’s face. The whole thing happened so quickly I couldn’t believe it. I got my dog up and the owner (who wasn’t paying attention in the first place) says “Oh my godddd! She’s just a little dogggg!” like that made any difference to my dog who was freaked out by the unexpected onslaught of puppy excitement. I said, “You’re supposed to have your dog on a leash!” to which she replied, “You stupid b****!” I replied a little more loudly, “It’s the LAW!!” She stomped off mumbling more of the same and I was just stunned.
Safe to say we don’t take that route in the morning anymore and I’m constantly scanning on all of our walks.
BTW- I love your posts!!
Fallen Angel says
Hi!
I really have to share this, eaven if it’s really selfpitying…
I have a border collie male, who is really like REALLY energic. I have worked really much with him and tried many things to get him calmer and less fixated with everything around os. We have learnd a lot to gether, but well… We aint so good in some situations. Like in the train, he may sleep and wait nicely or then he just barks whole the time all 5h way back home. They call him crazy and say that I should put him down. But at home and with other dogs without leash he is the most friendly and kind little boy, full of love and energy.
Then at school they always tell everyone how border collies are so easy trained. And I can’t help but get sad. Because that means I am just a really really lousy trainer. And I have really worked hard. And I am still working hard. But still teachers tell us how easy a border collie is to train. I have never had good selfesteam, but it won’t get etter like this. I feel bad all the time and criticis my self harder and harder. Because obviously I am just doing everything wrong. Even if my other dogs behave and everything, I just can’t be a good trainer, because I can’t train my border collie well.
HFR says
Isn’t it interesting how we all train our dogs to our specific needs and wishes. For instance, Marjorie’s pet peeve is my dog. Sorry! Just never trained my dog not to beg cuz it just didn’t seem important to me since it doesn’t bother me when other dogs do it to me. I try to remember that when other dog’s behavior seems annoying to me. I’ll put up with your dog jumping on me if your put up with my dog’s begging. Deal? Uh-oh.
Gayla says
In human to human interactions I try to always use “I” statements, rather than “you” statements.ie; “I feel overwhelmed right now,” rather than “You don’t help enough around the house.” etc. I also try to avoid suggesting that anyone is ever “making me feel” some negative emotion. I own whatever I’m feeling, but understand that no one can MAKE ME feel it. Whenever I can stay on track with those basic principles, I’m able to avoid a lot of defensive responses.
In Dezi’s unfortunate circumstance, she’d need the other woman to agree to a ‘start-over,’ – ‘so sorry we got off on the wrong foot,’ etc. And then a lot of luck and restraint to turn it around…
Too many of my clients just want me to explain how to get their dog to STOP doing something without spending the time and effort to teaching their dog an acceptable, alternative behavior. I struggle with how to convey “It’s simply not allowed.” To have a fully rounded relationship with my dog, I think she needs all the communication that’s written on both sides of the coin. Lots and lots of “YES!” – to be sure. But she also needs to know when something is “not allowed.” Like Willie is not allowed to correct Tootsie for simply walking by him, or to bite Maggie. And they are not allowed to play tug with each other if they aren’t, or can’t, play nicely.
It’s all part of reducing their anxieties by making the boundaries and expectations clear.
Nic1 says
Fantastic post. Loving the Spring photos of the lambs and ewes and the continuing adventures of Maggie, Willie and Trisha! How’s Tootsie?
I have found that it’s simply best to not offer an opinion about dogs unless asked. Like everything else i guess? 🙂 I try to avoid getting into conversations about training and behaviour because the old memes tend to get regurgitated on a regular basis. ‘Dominance, pack leader, discipline, raising dogs based on instinct’ etc. and I am no expert, just very opinionated! That’s why this blog is such an amazing place. It’s a sanctuary actually! Thanks Trisha! 🙂
I’m not as sociable (or naive??) when out and about with new people and dogs as I have had too much negative reinforcement in the past. But that’s because I have are active dog and I never used to know what that meant when I first adopted her….. I do empathise when I see people behaving ‘cluelessly’ because I was also pretty clueless about dogs before I discovered people like Trisha. I do think that if I hadn’t adopted my reactive, poorly socialised adult dog and went for the passive Lab puppy instead, quite possibly I may be walking around with an out of control, friendly but ill mannered dog annoying the heck out of some people too?
I try never to judge but I definitely scan people’s behaviour around their dogs before deciding if I need to actively avoid them and their dogs, or think that they may be future pals. Safety first……I am thinking of the fact that I can not trust my own dog to make good decisions around strange dogs and the fact that she really seems to prefer just our company when out exercising.
I definitely believe most people ARE well intentioned when they let their ‘exuberant and friendly’ dogs barrel over to you uninvited. They do think that their dogs are behaving socially and don’t understand that their dogs need to learn some manners. Probably because they have never had any negative reinforcement! Yet…….
I have had a repeat offender in this regard and they got the sharp end of my tongue after the fourth charge on four separate occasions. Either they didn’t remember me and the increasingly impolite and adrenalised conversations afterwards or they didn’t care that my dog hates being charged, I’m not sure which. I am no saint but do genuinely go out of my way to keep my own and other dogs safe and it can be upsetting when people don’t respect or care when you have tried as politely as possible to communicate your dog’s social difficulties.
With one lady though, my little snippets about canine research I have dropped in on occasions have worked a treat, so much so that out on a walk, she stopped us to ask advice about her dog! Not about behaviour or training though, about whether she should take her to the vet for a bad tummy! Hahaha! I advised her that it would be best to simply ring the surgery! Bless her!
I have witnessed two gentleman striking their dogs when out walking my dog in the neighbourhood. One slapped his gorgeous little Bichon Frise for barking at my dog as we approached. I crossed the road to give her space and gave her owner a ‘Paddington Stare.’ The other occasion an owner struck his lab around the muzzle with a metal chain lead, for what I am not sure, but whatever it was, it did not warrant that behaviour. I said nothing but gave him a cold, hard stare (Paddington Bear again…) But I got my opportunity to exercise some naughty behaviour myself two weeks later. He saw me over the road treating my dog for sitting and giving me a beautiful ‘watch’ (instead of being rude and staring as per usual) while he walked past with his dog. ‘That’s bribery’ he said, in a friendly, if slightly condescending manner. ‘I’d much rather bribe her than hit her though!’ I said it before ‘pause and edit’ had engaged. ‘Maybe you could try it too?’
I couldn’t resist!!
Sorry Trisha! 😉
Kat says
I have been guilty of simply training someone else’s dog at the dog park. Once was a BC/Lab mix that was an accomplished thief. He loved nothing better than sneaking up behind someone stealing something from their pocket, hats and gloves being especial favorites. Then he’d take of running and his lazy owner would finally get up from where he was sitting and chase the dog around the park usually with several other people trying to help catch the dog and get the item back. After weeks of making gentle comments I finally arrived at the park and showed the dog I had treats. With permission I gave him a couple and then dismissed him. As soon as he stole something I called him and showed him I still had treats. He came over and exchanged what he’d stolen for a treat. Two days later he’d steal something bring it to me for a treat and then go play. That’s when the owner’s best buddy started harassing him about how much better I had his dog trained. Next day the owner showed up with treats and actually worked with his dog. They moved away shortly after that so I don’t know what the long term outcome was.
I also train dogs in the park not to jump on me. I consider it a great victory when the owner who has been fruitlessly yelling at the dog to not jump on people notices that the dog never jumps on me and asks why. Then I get to explain and the result is often a dog that stops trying to jump on everyone.
Tina says
Thank you for the great blog post and all the comments. I love all the additional ideas I can use. Here are a few of mine, mostly relying on my own actions/precautions. I use Trisha’s technique of throwing treats at approaching off-leash dogs, works most of the time!
1) I am not a dog trainer, so I just tell people my dog is not friendly to other dogs, to stop them from approaching, my dog is reactive and uncomfortable with other dogs. I also scan constantly for off-leash dogs and avoid them as much as possible. I avoid weekend afternoons like the plague, this seems to be when dogs with no training and have been cooped up all week are on the trails, and their owners think that dogs should just naturally return to them when they are off leash.
2) I dont give advice, since I don’t like receiving lots of advice that has been very wrong for my energetic, reactive dog. I keep being told to take her to the dog park for socialization…that is the last place that would be a good experience for her. Also, all the people that tell me ‘of course my dog listens, because I bribe her with treats’. Many people associate treats with poor training and the inability to control your dog. So I have received lots of unwanted advice, so I don’t give advice. If I am asked, I usually just refer to trainers that I trust, or Trisha’s books.
3) One useful way to keep people (some people) from petting a dog, is to tell them your dog will lick them if they approach for petting. Knowing a dog’s method of hygiene, many will choose not to pet, so they won’t get licked on the face. 🙂
4) We often step off trail or sidewalk, I put my dog on a stay, and stand between her and walkers, joggers, bikes, other dogs, for a lot of people this is enough of a signal to let them know you do not want any interaction, and also gives you time to assess the situation and/or ask them to not approach (I usu. say my dog is not friendly, even if untrue, just a lot less stress that way).
Robin Jackson says
I have mentioned this before, but it has been so helpful to me I hope it’s OK if I bring it up again.
I am a stereotypical little old lady in a wheelchair, physically quite fragile. One of the things we were taught in a wheelchair O&M class was to carry a popup umbrella and use it as a shield against overly friendly dogs. It’s important that it have a button end, not a spike, so it’s clearly only for defense.
Later I trained my own dog to wait calmly behind the umbrella when I held it in shield position.
It’s the most effective thing I’ve ever found for stalling both overly friendly dogs and grabby toddlers. And it also makes a very clear statement to the supervisory adult that you really, truly, don’t want physical interaction with their Dog/child.
You do have to practice at home so your own dog gets comfortable with it. And it won’t help against a truly aggressive dog.
But just breaking eye contact can defuse a lot of situations, and it removes the need for verbal explanations altogether. 🙂
Robin Jackson says
@Laura,
Many assistance dog programs have their puppy raisers go to group training classes and do basic obedience training with their candidate puppies.
For example, Can Do Canines, one of the bigger programs in Minnesota, provides mobility assistance dogs, and their puppy raisers do a lot of basic training under the supervision of the professional program trainers.
http://can-do-canines.org/puppy-raiser/
Guiding Eyes for the Blind is another program with Minnesota puppy raisers that talks about the volunteers ” training” the pups, by which they mean basic manners training, but done to a much higher standard than the typical pet dog. Again with regular group classes and the guidance of the pros.
https://www.guidingeyes.org/volunteer/puppy-raising/become-a-puppy-raiser/key-components/
So that’s probably the kind of “training” puppy raisers would be telling their families about.
After they are about a year old the successful candidates would then go to the campus for what is often called “specialty training,” “task training,” or “advanced training.”
So different programs use different terms, but it’s pretty common to talk about puppy raisers doing “training.”
Sarah says
Now that my dogs are older, I use their age and implied frailty as an excuse all the time. Never mind that they’re more healthy, sound and active than most 8 year old dogs, I still say “They’re 12 and they have arthritis, they can’t tolerate other dogs jumping on them!” This works very well in my area. Last year I used “she just had surgery” for months, long after she was completely recovered.
Even though this approach works most of the time, I do resent having to offer a reason why other people should teach their dogs manners and treat other dogs with respect. Shouldn’t that just be the way it is?
When it comes to people doing egregious things in public, whether it’s abusing their dog or allowing their dogs to be dangerously out of control, I speak up more than I used to. I know that I’m not going to change their opinion or their behavior in the moment, but I think there should be social consequences when people behave badly in public. If we all stand by quietly while people beat their dog or allow their dog to run amok, don’t we become part of the problem? So I’ll say something simple and direct like “You shouldn’t hit your dog,” or “Your dog is out of control,” and then walk away.
Beth says
Mostly, I talk to the owner through the dog. “Oh, you don’t have to say hello if you are scared. It’s ok to hide behind your Mom; I’ll just walk away.” “Aren’t you bouncy? I won’t pet you til you have four on the floor.” “Goodness, Maddie doesn’t like being humped. Let’s get you off her…”
Regarding being mugged for treats: I have found it’s pretty easy to train other people’s dogs to sit for treats by just turning my back if they don’t sit. Especially effective if I am doling out treats and one poor soul gets none. Oh dear. If I do have treats and there is a group of dogs, usually within a few seconds they are all circled around me, sitting. The same dogs will jump and mug other people (mainly because those people hand out treats to mugging dogs).
I don’t generally offer unsolicited advice. I have had several bad experiences with clueless owners of “friendly” dogs who were trying to kill mine, but when my dogs are in danger anything goes and I don’t worry about the owner, just the dogs. And as a rule, I avoid dog parks because of too many out-of-control dogs.
Chris from Boise says
Much to my surprise, I’ve given advice twice that has been received well. Both cases were when people were chasing dogs that had slipped out their front doors. In once case it was a small pack of kids screaming “Jake! Get over here!” etc, being led on a glorious romp by a pug mix. I stopped the oldest child, suggested that Jake might be getting scared by all the chasing, and mentioned that the best way to teach a dog to come was to make coming the Best Possible Event In The World. That obviously wasn’t possible in this exact moment, though, so I also suggested running the other way (one of your great tricks), and it worked like a charm.
The second case was similar, but a young woman who was practically in tears by her inability to corner her dog, recently adopted from the shelter and still unfamiliar with the owner. The dog was in our front yard at the moment, and quite uneasy about the whole situation, so I suggested that she and I both kneel down in separate areas, and just let the poor pup catch its breath and have a chance to think. She was then able to coax the dog to her with squeaky sounds, and then pet it, and then pick it up while I went for a rope to use as a leash. We chatted for a few minutes and she was very receptive to my suggestions of a local trainer, but I don’t know if she followed through.
In both cases I felt very fortunate that the child and young woman were willing to listen and change their behavior; it helped that they were at their respective wit’s end and in my yard.
In most cases I don’t give unsolicited advice, but I really appreciate Trisha’s suggestions about making connection with a first positive comment about the dog, and then using positive reinforcement on the human.
Aurora says
People are hard. I definitely have times when I want to influence how people handle their dogs, but the real challenge for me is not letting them influence me in unproductive ways. I’m fairly socially anxious and tend to be very self-concious and deferential with strangers (once I have an actual relationship with someone it’s different, but with strangers I really just want to get through most interactions with the minimum of fuss). My dog is quite young, very high energy, excitable, and somewhat leash-reactive. The social pressure to just contain her, to make her stop whatever it is she’s doing right this very moment, makes it so hard for me keep calm, ignore what should be ignored, and focus on training and rewarding in the way I’ve planned to rather than just a lot of fairly random luring and, yes, dragging, designed more to make it stop in the moment and to telegraph to the world “I am doing something about this!” than to actually fix the problem. Mostly I manage to be kind to her in those situations, but I’m only just starting to manage myself well enough to be effective and I know my stress is rubbing off on her.
Robin Jackson says
Trisha,
I know you did one of the cover blurbs for Nicole Wilde’s book IT’S NOT THE DOGS, IT’S THE PEOPLE: A Dog Trainer’s Guide to Training Humans. I’ve heard it’s a good book but always assumed it was only relevant to professional trainers. Do you think it would also apply to “good neighbour” situations?
Marjorie says
To HFR
My pet peeve is not so much with begging dogs (except if they are large, wet & muddy, jumping up on me) but more with their owners blaming me for their dog’s bad behaviour, when they need to take responsbility for their dog. The parks we go to are not just dog specific parks and many other people use them. Not everyone wants a big wet, dirty shaggy dog jumping over them. What happens if you have a child walking along eating something? (many people picnic in the parks) I love dogs, I don’t mind a dog polietly sitting and asking for food, but I don’t want to be mobbed for it and then be blamed for it happening. I also enjoy taking my dogs to these parks, and if this behaviour continues dogs could lose their privileges.
Trisha says
To Aurora: Hang in there. Keep being kind to your dog and kind to yourself. One way to do that (not knowing your situation at all, I’m making some leaps here…) is to avoid situations in which you or your dog are overwhelmed. I’m big on managing things step-by-step until me and the dog are both comfortable. I avoided places like dog parks and even classes for over three years with Willie. I may have been too conservative, but he is doing so well now that I’m glad I was so careful.
Re “It’s Not the Dogs, It’s the People.” I think anything that helps us talk to others in a
constructive way is useful!
Beth, I love that you talk directly to the dog. I didn’t realize how often I do the same until
you brought it up. Thanks! Great advice for us all.
To Sarah and saying “Your dog is out of control” and then walking away. That’s something that I personally wouldn’t recommend. To each his own, but if someone
told me that my dog was “out of control” I’d either not agree and be irritated, or agree
and feel even more helpless that someone shamed me about it and then walked off before helping me in any way. How about “It looks like your dog is a bit, uh, over-exuberant right now! Would you like another hand to help get all that energy under control?”
d to your dog and kind to yourself. One way to do that (not knowing your situation at all, I’m making some leaps here…) is to avoid situations in which you or your dog are overwhelmed. I’m big on managing things step-by-step until me and the dog are both comfortable. I avoided places like dog parks and even classes for over three years with Willie. I may have been too conservative, but he is doing so well now that I’m glad I was so careful.
Trisha says
An additional point to Robin’s idea about the umbrella (brilliant) and Tina’s “My dog is not friendly”: Once as a joke I was out with a client’s reactive dog and as someone approached I waved “Watch out! This dog has parvo!” The person backed away as if a huge vacuum had been turned on behind her. Did I mention that sometimes I lie?
And here’s a possible answer to someone who criticizes the use of treats (“that’s bribery” as Nic1 related to us): I have snapped back (my own edit filter apparently on the fritz): “Oh, do you work for no salary then yourself?”
TO FALLEN ANGEL: Yes, I am yelling, but only in a good way. Please toss out all mythologies about “Border Collies being so easy to train.” Yes, they can be, but they can also be exceptionally difficult to deal with. All that energy and laser focus and determination doesn’t always make for an easy dog. If your boy is friendly and kind at home, and full of love and energy, well then, that’s wonderful. I would sit down and think carefully about what situations cause problems and try to either 1) avoid them, or 2) get specific help from a progressive trainer about how to handle it. For example, can you avoid 5 hour train rides? Maybe not, but find a coach to help you figure out what the triggers are. Most importantly, don’t beat yourself up. All the behaviorists I know agree that a Border Collie with “issues” can be one of the toughest cases we see!
Trisha says
I got all mushy myself reading about Donna’s Spencer who came as a reactive rescue dog and is now a certified therapy dog. Thanks for reminding us all that so many reactive dogs can be turned around.
To Laura and her question about what people mean when they say that they know someone who trains “those” dogs. Certainly I don’t know, but my guess is that they are lumping all categories, from therapy to service dogs into one category (Which I know not to do, but still mistakenly called a service dog a therapy dog lately. Mea culpa.) I’ll be most of the people being referred to are puppy raisers, and the distinction just isn’t relevant to them. What I heard constantly from clients was that their dog’s parent was a “show” dog. When I’d ask what kind of “show” their faces went blank.
To Rebecca who asked for advice about how to talk to people who are involved in problematic dog behavior. The first case was how to talk to an owner whose loose dog frequently charges up to dogs walking by on a leash. My answer is not to try, based on the fact you say that the owner has little to do with the dog. I’d work on the dog’s behavior, not the owner’s. For the 2nd case, in which a co-worker is getting bad and potentially abusive advice from the dog’s breeder, there really isn’t all that much you can do except perhaps tell a story (people love stories) about a dog you had who didn’t respond to force but did really well with mgt and PR. But you can bring this up a few times and then you’ll have to drop it. You don’t have a lot of options if she keeps talking about the troubles she has with her dog but using methods you don’t like. In that case I’d say “protect yourself” and leave the conversation.
Dusty, I loved hearing your comment that it CAN be helpful for someone else to add a comment about a better way to handle a dog. Good to know that sometimes it can help, but especially to emphasize that it has to be offered respectfully.
Trisha says
I want to add more comments to many of your excellent posts, but have to rescue my dogs… they’ve been alone in the house too long! But know that I am loving this conversation, and will continue it tomorrow when I can get back to it. Thanks to all of your for contributing, it’s such an important topic.
Robin Jackson says
@FallenAngel,
My extended family has always had border collies and bc mixes, many working dogs on working farms, so I’ve personally known several hundred. I was always told a border collie “can learn anything”–but that’s completely different than being easy to train. 😉 BC’s are like the gifted child in a mainstream class. The B+ student is often much easier to teach!
In addition, many bc’s are sound sensitive, making them physically uncomfortable on buses and trains. That’s not always a fixable problem. If your dog is good in some environments but not in others, sometimes it’s the environment that’s the issue, not the dog. Many bc’s can follow a cue given in an ordinary speaking voice from a distance of 200 meters. Great for working sheep. But the squeaks and rattles of a train or bus, even if inaudible to humans, may drive the same dog crazy.
Border collies are also very observant, and often make up their own rules about what they think is important. Quite a few are not very food-motivated. Many expert trainers consider border collies very difficult to train for ordinary people.
http://www.yourpurebredpuppy.com/reviews/bordercollies.html
I like the breed very much, and have a lot of experience with them, but I’ve never considered them easy to train. And definitely not dogs who handle boredom well.
Beth says
I nearly forgot to mention one of my favorite methods for dealing with certain types of situations: Pretend the other party meant to do the right thing but was prevented from doing so by forces beyond her control.
Example: A loose-knit group shows up in a certain quiet hollow of our park to let their dogs loaf and play off-leash. Someone we do not know has their friendly dog wandering around when the dog squats and defecates near the edge of the woods. The owner is giving clear signs that she has no plans on cleaning up after her dog. So about three different people helpfully say “I have an extra bag if you need one” while holding said bag in outstretched hand. When the owner lamely mumbles they are not sure where exactly the dog went, a couple of us nod in the general direction and head off to “help” her look. The result is the owner cleans up after the dog.
Another method is to pretend the concern is for the other party. Recently some young man was tearing through the grassy areas of the same park on a dirt bike. I guess he caught me or my husband flashing him a dirty look (it can be hard not to) and stopped. I thought “Uh-oh, this could be trouble”. I knew better than to let the two men get into a discussion, so I jumped in quickly and said “I’m sorry, it’s just that people play frisbee with dogs and little kids and stuff in this area and I know how awful you’d feel if something happened…..” Luckily the young man was a decent enough person and he mumbled something apologetic and I never saw him tear through the area again. I am pretty sure he did NOT stop to wish us good day and things could have gone badly, but by quickly making my concern about his emotional welfare instead of about the potentially hurt dog or kid I think I took the pressure off— I definitely don’t recommend giving a dirty look to a stranger on a bike when you are on foot. But my approach after the unwanted face-to-face meeting can be used in other situations that are not potentially threatening, such as someone with a loose dog not under voice control.
Kat says
A possibly off the wall thought but Robin Jackson’s suggestion that FallenAngel’s Border Collie might be suffering stress from the train sounds made me wonder how many sound sensitive dogs could benefit from learning to wear ear protectors such as the dogs were trained to wear in the fMRI studies.
HFR says
Marjorie: I totally get what you are saying. To be clear, I was just talking about situations where I am around other dogs and their owners only. I would never have my dogs off leash if there were any children around, especially ones with food.
I’m remembering when I used to go to a dog park when my dog was a pup (I avoid them now) and people would come in their work clothes or Sunday best and then get all bent out of shape about dogs jumping on them. Really? You are at a dog park, what did you expect? I agree about not letting our dogs become a nuisance, and common courtesy should always be applied in any situation. Unfortunately, my dogs don’t sit politely. One of them is a nose-bumper. Some think it’s cute, some don’t. I will pull my dogs away if I see someone is not enjoying his wet nose bopping their pocket. I guess it’s all about different levels of tolerance and being sensitive to that. Anyway, didn’t mean to hi-jack the topic, just think it’s interesting how we all have different priorities when it comes to training.
Lots of great advice in this post. I’m taking notes!
LisaW says
This story still makes me laugh three-plus years later. It involves my shy, worried dog, me, and a couple out for a little walk. I was walking Olive in a place that had some buildings, some traffic but infrequent walkers. I was slowly giving her some exposure to new places in a way that hopefully wouldn’t overwhelm her. Up ahead I saw a couple walking toward us, and as they approached, I stood to the side with Olive, and they slowed as they neared. They asked about the dog, were respectful of her space, so we chatted for a minute. Olive was looking a little conflicted – do I avoid, do I approach? I thought ok, time to move on when all of a sudden the man dropped down to his knees and rolled sideways on the sidewalk. The woman and I looked at each other as if to say, “What the heck are you doing?” Olive backed away as the man on the ground said he had read somewhere the best way to approach a dog especially a shy dog was to make yourself smaller and come in at an angle. I had read about this in one of your books, Trisha, and I told him I don’t think they meant it quite that way. Olive certainly didn’t take it as a nonthreatening gesture. She didn’t know how to respond, actually, none of us did. I think we were all quite bemused by his well-meaning but interestingly executed actions. I still get a kick out of the visual.
Andrea says
I have had some success with using human-centered analogies to try and get the person to better understand something from a dog’s perspective or at least think about a situation differently. I started doing this after reading an example in Laura VanArendonk Baugh’s book ‘Fired Up, Frantic, and Freaked Out: Training the Crazy Dog from Over the Top to Under Control’ where she explains how an over-excited or truly fearful dog ignoring a treat is like someone offering you a candy bar while you’re being mugged. This helped me understand why my food-obsessed but fearful dog wasn’t interested in even the tastiest treat when we were at the vet’s office and he was scared.
I do this mostly with people I already know and recently used it to rescue my dog from having to deal with some excessive mounting behavior that the other dog’s person thought was funny and harmless. I told him, that while it was true that his dog wasn’t hurting my dog, it still wasn’t something my dog was enjoying and suggested he might not like it very much if some stranger came up to him, hugged him, and wouldn’t let go.
Also, as someone who’s felt like Aurora mentioned many times over the past year with 2 exuberant lab puppies, I completely agree with Trisha’s suggestion to keep to situations where you are able to work with your dog how you want to and not worry about what other people are thinking. When I started working with my leash reactive dog we were U-turning every time we saw anyone working outside, at the park, or walking their dog and at first I was worried people would think I was just avoiding them and being anti-social. I got over that when we started seeing some progress and now I’m sure that those people I worried about offending appreciate my better behaved dog.
Nic1 says
Beth’s story reminds me how irritated I get with cyclists when I’m walking my dog who hog the FOOT paths in the UK. They should be on the road but I guess some people feel quite vulnerable and choose to be a danger to pedestrians instead…
My dog actually muzzle punched a cyclist who charged around a corner almost crashing into her and my partner last week. The cyclist managed to screech to a halt before making physical contact but startled the pair of them and Lily punched him on the ankle apparently! My partner meanwhile managed to remain restrained and polite I’m pleased to report, unlike my dog (!) He had no reaction to Lily making contact with him (she was silent in her protest – no growling or barking apparently) and my partner thinks he probably didn’t even notice, but this is not behaviour I want to encourage and annoying that she had to resort to that. It’s a perfectly understandable canine response to a shock invasion of space by rude human on wheels. It can be genuinely frightening for dogs and for people. I’m wondering if she was ‘telling him off’ as opposed to reacting out of fear?
Marjorie says
Dear HFR:
My dogs are also very food motivated and I too have a “nose bopper.” I find training for some self control (bum MUST be on the ground before you get your treat) and re-directing (with our own treats) rather than “pulling” them away from someone, provides for a much more enjoyable experience for everyone, dogs included.
Trish K says
Well this topic has made me feel a bit self- conscious because I plan on taking my dogs to my cities new dog park soon. I didn’t even realize my sweet Bella was MUGGING my boy dog Simon until Patricia commented on the exact same behavior Bella exhibits with Simon in a topic last week about “when to intervene”? And although I normally didn’t intervene with their what I thought was just play, I was lucky because Simon corrected Bella himself and it worked! I’m positive I don’t know what rude or acceptable dog greetings look like. I have a few weeks before the dog park opens so I have time to watch some examples on you tube maybe.
While walking my dogs I don’t pass close to other dog walkers, I always cross the street so I haven’t had a confrontation.
Personally I wouldn’t mind advice from a stranger as long as they were kind. Honesty and sincere kindness go a long way with me.
Marjorie says
Dear HRF (con’t)
I’m not sure what your “dog park” is like, but where I live we don’t have specific parks just for dogs (I lie, I do know of one that is fenced and has a private membership, but I’m not a member). We do have beautiful large parks that are for everyone and they have off leash areas. So they are shared parks with many different users. If my dogs bark, lunge or cause any problem for anyone (regardless of whose fault it might be) I always leash them, apologise and move on. I feel it’s important to be respectful of other park users and I believe that they should be able to wear what ever they want to the park, without expecting to get soiled. I also believe that it is my responsibility to be in control of my dog and if I’m not then I should not have them off leash at the park. It’s not just about me and my dog, we share our world with many others. We are fortunate to be able to have our dogs at the park and I’d love to live in a more tolerant dog society, but there is only one way to get there and that’s peaceful and respectful co-existance.
Trish K says
…maybe I should just forget the dog park, it’s probably no place for amateurs .
Patricia Savage says
These have been highly instructive and quite enjoyable reads. It is quite obvious that I need some additional information on reading dog’s behavior. I have a number of books that discuss this, the illustrations help, but I want to learn more. Please send me book/videos/whatever else you can think of that will enlighten me further.
Laura says
at Tricia and Robin,
Exactly what I thought regarding training and puppy raising. It also really helps to understand that the public is probably lumping therapy and service and emotional support dogs all into one category. I always forget that and was reminded of it when I was at the eye doctor’s early this week. Another patient in the waiting room asked me some of the usual questions I get about seamus, and then asked me if I brought him into nursing homes for visits. I said that sometimes happens, but that it’s only if I’m visiting a specific patient, like a relative and that he isn’t a therapy dog. I explained that he is really there for me, to help me, and is just sort of an added bonus for the person I’m visiting. She understood, but then asked if he turned on lights for me or brought me things from the fridge. I explained that, while I’d love to teach him those tasks, I don’t need him to do those things for me. So yes, I think the general public hears service dog and thinks of a multitude of dogs and tasks they can do. Also, just wanted to say, that if it seemed that I was minimizing the hard work and yes, training, that the puppy raisers do, it was never meant like that. I wouldn’t have the great dogs I do if they hadn’t been trained to lie quietly at my feet in a meeting, or have such excellent recall skills. In fact, most of the compliments I get from people on how well behaived my dogs are, is directly because of the hard work and training the raisers do. The instructors at the school I get my dogs from simply reinforce it.
this also leads me to another question. I’ll preface it by saying, that 90 percent of the time, I meet or know other service dog handlers who’s dogs are perfectly well-behaived and wonderful. It is, however that 10 percent who’s dogs are well… not. Most times, it’s more of an annoyance when the handler allows the dog to walk up to me and either start mugging me, or my dog for attention, but sometimes, it’s dangerous. I’ve seen dogs lead their handler into streets to get to another person or to something else they really want. What do I say? so far, I haven’t said anything and have just gone on my way, but in the other situation where my dog and I are getting “hounded,” pun intended, for attention when we’re sitting down, I’ve said that the dog is very nice and I know he just wants to be friendly. If that doesn’t get the handler’s attention, I usually just move to another seat if I can. but the other situation, i’m concerned not just for the dog, but for the safety of the handler. If the dog isn’t concentrating on it’s task, the handler could be hurt. Normally, I take the same tact I’d take with parents and what Tricia mentioned in her post, can’t tell other handlers how to handle their dogs. So, should I just keep doing that? I’d love to hear what everyone else thinks, cause the advice about this topic has been great. 🙂
Trisha says
Robin: I am reminded of a talk I gave on book tour once during which a service dog in the front row began fixating on a pet dog a few chairs down. Both owners were not aware of what was going on. I kept talking and kept checking in with the service dog, whose hackles began raising, along with his hindquarters as he started to growl. Still nothing from the owner. I finally interrupted my talk to say “Oh dear, it looks like Magic is uncomfortable with the seating arrangement. Seems he thinks he paid for a better seat! Let’s find him another place to sit…”
Not to mention the client who came in with an extremely aggressive dog who threatened to attack me the entire time it was in my (too small) office. The female owner left to go to the restroom, handing the leash to her extremely old and frail husband who appeared to have Parkinson’s. His ability to actually hold on to the dog was, well, nil. Funny thing: Turns out I needed to go to the restroom too!
But that isn’t helping you Robin, sorry for the distraction. I’d love to hear what other suggest you say, but I too would move if you could if the dog is bothering yours. However, if I saw a dog put someone at real risk, like crossing a busy street, I would definitely say something in case the owner had no idea about the dog’s mistake. Start with something good like “Oh, such a wonderful dog you have! But really, I stopped to say something else, and I am hoping it is welcome. It’s a bit awkward, and I’m not sure how to say it best, but I’ll just blurt it out because I’d want someone to tell me if my dog made a mistake…”. I’ve had great luck with being really honest and telling people that I want to say something but simply don’t know how. That enrolls them in helping you out, and changes the conversation to you needing something rather than you criticizing them or their dog. Make sense? Think that would work?
Trisha says
To Trish K: Dog parks are indeed not for amateurs! I would never take a dog to one unless it had rock solid social skills, and even then I’d be cautious about when and where I’d go.
Love the muzzle punch description Nic1. I agree that your partner was right to stay silent, but also that it would be wise to stay alert for it happening in the future. I’d speculate that the behavior was indeed a warning, but couldn’t say if it was motivated by fear or irritation, as in “HEY! What do you think you are doing!”
Trisha says
And to Andrea: I love your reminder about how useful it is to make human analogies. I too have found that to be one of the most successful ways to help people understand what it is like to be a dog. (One of the advantages of people being anthropomorphic if you think about it!) The candy bar offer while being mugged is brilliant!
Thanks to all of you for your great suggestions. There is a wealth of good information here; I hope anyone who deals with this issue (who doesn’t?) reads all the comments. I don’t have time to mention you all by name, but many of your ideas are priceless! Thanks again. (But don’t stop!)
Laura says
At Tricia,
Loved the redirecting you did with the service dog and the pet dog at the lecture. Most people forget that service dogs are still dogs and they can have their moments. Seamus got into a bag of cough drops last weekend, and after checking with animal poison control to make sure he was going to be ok, I just looked at him and sighed, “what am I going to do with you?”
Anyhow, approaching the handler who’s dog is walking them into a street and explaining myself as honestly as I can is a great idea. I may get yelled at for it, but I don’t take that personally. their safety is more of my concern than them liking me. As to the commenter who said she might never take her dog to the dog park, trust me, I’m in the same boat as you, but for different reasons. I always hesitate, because one bad experience with another dog and my dog’s career could be over. Believe me, I wish I could because the parks look like so much fun, but I don’t feel it’s worth the risk. I simply say to myself, it won’t wreck his life, and then organize play groups with friends who’s dogs I know very well and who have played with my dog before. That way, he still gets interaction with other dogs and I feel more comfortable. Perhaps you could see if that’s an option? Hope this helps.
Robin Jackson says
@Laura,
Unfortunately I live in an area where poorly trained service dogs are all too common. Many local news stories on these. I’d say at least 3 or 4 times a year I encounter a dog wearing a vest who absolutely freaks when they see my power wheelchair, sometimes growling and lunging. And the handler invariably responds, “Sorry, he’s never seen a wheelchair before.” Yikes! I know a number of owner trainers who have beautifully behaved service dogs, but since there is no standard test there are also unfortunately self proclaimed service dogs who couldn’t even pass an AKC CGC test, let alone the higher standards a service dog should meet.
Honestly, I don’t know what to say in those circumstances. If they ask for my advice on training, I have some standard reference recommendations. If they aren’t asking for advice though, I usually just try to put as much physical distance between myself and them as possible.
Most guide dogs, though, are program trained, and if they’re from IGDF schools they should be wearing logos from their program. This is also true of dogs from ADI
programs trained to aid people with other disabilities. If you’re with someone who can identify the logo, I would definitely report any behaviour which could endanger the team or any bystanders to the program. ADI/IGDF programs all do lifetime followup, and they can definitely evaluate the situation and provide additional training to dog or handler if needed.
Of course if it’s an owner trained dog or a dog from a smaller program that resource may not be available. Or a person who is blind may not be able to see the logo. But if the dog does happen to be from a large program and you know what it is, I do think that’s a resource worth pursuing when you encounter serious safety issues.
Robin Jackson says
@Beth,
A very admirable approach!
@Kat,
I know some border collies who do search and rescue who wear ear protectors for helicopter flights! But they’re still notoriously bad at lying still for long periods. 🙂
@Trisha K,
Trish King, a behaviour consultant, did a really interesting article for APDT on dog parks called The Good, the Bad, and the Ugly. Well worth reading:
http://apdt.com/petowners/park/docs/DogParks_King.pdf
em says
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion (and hearty congratulations on your thriving new lambs!) I am so enjoying hearing others’ strategies and experiences.
My own experience, I fear, may not have much to offer in this particular situation, since much of what I would contribute has already been said, quite eloquently.
I will say as a sidebar, though, that I have an unfair advantage in that I do most of my dog walking at my rather unique off-leash dog park. Unlike most urban dog parks, it is a true park- huge, unfenced, with fields and trails and creeks, etc. This has the effect, I have found, of weeding out most of the more difficult dog owners. Very seldom do people risk taking dogs without at least a halfway decent recall (most of the dogs have well-beyond-basic obedience training levels), the open space does a LOT to diffuse tension between dogs, and dogs likely to resort to violence (whether in offense or defense) are rare. I also almost never see any but kind interactions between dogs and their owners.
This is not to say that the park is some sort of Shangri-La where I approve of all of the handling decisions that I see- we have our share of naughty pups, mismatched dogs/owners (like the very frail older lady with the very bouncy, feisty young terrier who walks all over her), personality conflicts (dog and human), and the very rare Serious Problem, but overwhelmingly both dogs and humans come to the park expecting and desiring pleasant social interactions, and willing to cut each other some slack. That, more than anything, makes a huge difference, I find. Tsk- tsking in private over some choice or another is only human (mea culpa!) but luckily very, very few situations are serious enough to warrant anything but the pleasantest exclamations of admiration for a dog’s finer qualities to his owner (even if uttered while beating a brisk retreat).
I’m also in the camp of talking directly to dogs (a habit facilitated by the fact that they are seldom right beside their owners at the park), and very few people fail to be disarmed by a friendly and admiring word or reassured by hearing their dogs’ reactions interpreted in the most understanding light, “Why hello! Aren’t you beautiful! I know, I know, it’s a lot of dog to be coming at you. Come along, meatheads, don’t crowd her.”
It also helps diffuse the initial ‘size shock’ and reassure both dogs and owners that my dogs do come along without making a nuisance of themselves. That, too, helps with the ‘unsolicited advice’ bit- my dogs are well-mannered enough not to inspire too much “helpful” commentary from the peanut gallery, for which I am profoundly grateful.
liz says
I’ve thought a lot about how to best practice positive reinforcement with people. And somewhat briefly, since I have to resume tending to dog allergies and checking to make sure I’ve rid the dogs of the evening’s ticks (madness this year, madness I say), timing and language have proven difficult to properly execute. Also, I never really know for sure what my rate of success is. Strangers may never be seen again, and then I’m without any follow-up gauge as to how the initial interaction went. If addressing an acquaintance or friend, it often seems positives are cancelled out or rendered insincere by perceived criticism. (Like the familiar scenario of someone saying, “I love you, but…” The part of the sentence before the “but” never sticks.) So to know when to point out and truly appreciate the successes of others is different than when dealing with dogs. Human conversations take place too quickly and become a jumble of treats, no-reward markers, and verbal aversives… But anyway, I think I’ve been most successful in communicating in the most benevolent yet direct way possible. A “kind, respectful honesty” as other commenters have described. Trying to end on a good note with acknowledging others success, after trying to come from a helpful place throughout the conversation. I also try to tap into a infinite reservoir of humility, remembering all of the steps I’ve taken and stumbles I’ve had. “Trying” apparently is the operative word in many of these sentences! I try -again- to avoid categorization. Both in categorizing others and speaking in sound bites so that words lose potency. Stereotyping is second nature and helps to process so much, but the world is so much more complicated than those “in the know” and those on the other side. But perhaps it helps me slow down the pace of conversations to a point where some degree of listening and progress can take place. Someone brilliant once said something along the lines of it being a miracle that we ever successfully commmunicate at all, and what a beautiful miracle at that…
Lynn says
One thing I find is that everyone is sensitive about their dog. I once deeply offended a woman in our former vet’s office by asking if she would pick up her puppy — surely no more than 10-12 weeks old — and hold him on her lap while I brought my dog into the waiting room and walked quickly past. She looked crushed and said, “he’s really very friendly, you know.” I was dumbfounded, and tried to explain that I wasn’t suggesting this out of concern for my dog, but as a precaution against her impressionable baby galloping over for a face-to-face encounter with my big, sometimes-scary dog. It seemed so obvious to me: I take my responsibilities to manage my ‘dog with issues’ seriously; plus, we were at a vet’s office, and any strange dog could be contagious, or immune-compromised, or in pain from a tooth she broke while eating the last puppy she met. But I forgot that just because something is obvious to me doesn’t make it so to someone else.
What I try to remember was that I was totally clueless when I got my first dog, and people were mostly very kind to me. Trainers and dog-savvy people who must have been biting their fingernails at my incompetence & ignorance somehow managed to offer encouragement and helpful advice. That encouragement and advice made it possible for me to muddle through that first awful year, and go on to have a lot of pretty great times with my silly, challenging, brilliant dog. Pointing out my millions of mistakes might have been a lot more satisfying for them in the short term, but I’m so glad they mostly didn’t…my confidence was already pretty much shattered.
So I try not to focus too much on what people are doing wrong. Except when I do, and then I freely yell at them, glare, fume, and wave my arms around…I may be a part-time educator and dog-advocate, but I am still a full-time primate 😉
Triangle says
Sometimes I find it helps to put the focus on my animal’s behavior instead of the other person’s when it comes to modifying their behavior toward my own pet. As an example:
I’m out walking my cat (on lead) and the neighbor’s big bouncy lab runs across the street toward us. I immediately move to body block and lift up the cat, and the neighbor tells me the lab would ‘never’ hurt a cat and just looooves all animals.
I COULD get into a drawn-out decision about how her dog is out of control, overly excited, and even if he loves cats in his own home, might not love the strange furry animal walking down the street. But that’s likely to make the neighbor defensive, and I’m also looking to stop this behavior going forward as well as in the moment.
So instead of making it about the lab, I make it about my cat. “Sorry, my little guy is a grouch and just hates dogs! I’d hate for Bouncy McBounce to get a scratched up nose, so I think it’s best we just keep them apart.” I used to do something similar when I took Jonas to Petsmart. If someone kept petting him roughly or approached too quickly, I’d say something like “Oh, he’s a touchy little guy! Here, let him sniff you first and then give him a little rub behind the ears. He just takes a few seconds to warm up.”
Frances says
While I rarely give unsolicited advice, there was one occasion when I did, and it was well received and did make a difference. An elderly dog walker has what was a very fearful, reactive rescue GSD, that was afraid even of my small dogs (I think the dog belongs to one of his children, but he seems to do most of the walking). I moved my dogs as far off the path as I could to let him by, commiserated with him on the poor dogs obvious anxiety, and suggested that walking so that he was between the dog and the scary thing had worked for me in the past. He has done so ever since, and the difference has been significant.
On the other hand there was the dog walking acquaintance who got not one, but two terrier pups from the same litter, and as they knitted her into a cat’s cradle of flexileash told me she was determined that they should be as well behaved as my Sophy… I explained a bit about how I had taught Sophy: “Oh, I don’t believe in training with treats!” I recommended a training class I had taken Sophy to: “I am not one for classes!” Fortunately the pups’ behaviour quickly became so unmanageable that she did contact a trainer, who equally fortunately steered her in the right direction.
Nina Worthe says
I have a small and adorable pug. She gets a lot of attention … especially, it seems, from a certain kind of person that goes right for her forelegs, pulls her up by her paws, and squeezes her to their often ample bosom. They grab first, asks questions later, that it was starting to affect her otherwise happy-go-lucky love-everyone demeanor. She can’t exactly escape on lead, and you really can’t move quickly enough to evade these people. I’m all for being polite, but you need a moment to react for that to even be possible!
Like the open umbrella as a shield above, I made her a few different little vests that say ‘I bite, don’t touch’ in bold letters – yes, we attract more attention this way than otherwise, but we either get snubbed (oh, well, too bad) or people approach and ask about it. Then, I can choose – I can explain that she doesn’t bite, but people tend to grab her and pick her up by her paws which she really doesn’t like, without asking, and that they’re very welcome to pet her (given that she’d like it, which is pretty much always a ‘yes’), or I can have her perform one of her many, many tricks, or I can tell them, yes, she bites, please back off. This last one is especially likely if they start telling me how they ‘know’ pugs and start reaching for her forelegs.
Kristen Yon says
We have a rescued people-reactive Cane Corso. He’s not reactive to other dogs, but is very socially awkward, which can create problems. But it’s mostly the other owners that are my problem. 1) I’ve gotten very good at ignoring advice. Not all of it is bad…if you’re starting from scratch rather than trying to rehabilitate a reactive dog whose history the other day was called “a case study in how to make a reactive dog” by an ethologist. 2) The bulk of well-meaning dog owners do exactly the wrong thing, like leashing their dog when approaching us, so now he’s forced to be near the Scary Person if he wants to interact with the dog. (That’s actually really tough, because his combined nervousness/overexcitement about the dog combined with fear of a stranger can easily lead to trigger stacking.) 3) Because he has made loads of progress and actually is really good within his safe bubble, people assume that he is always calm and well-behaved and come too close without even asking. 4) Our boy is very handsome and seems to have incredibly charisma, which is a challenge when your dog doesn’t like being looked at by strangers!
Mostly I talk through an indirect dialogue by talking to mydog: “That lady is nice. You don’t need to bite her, etc.” (translation: Please keep a safe distance), “Not every dog enjoys being jumped on” (I’m sorry. I know my dog is being rude, but it’s a little tough for me to manage you being so close and his overexcitement about your dog and I’d rather not set up a reaction from redirected frustration.), etc. It allows me to get my messages across without taking my focus off the dog. Because the biggest problem with talking to the other people is that it distracts you, and when you have a reactive dog every second matters.
Susan says
Please forgive me…in advance. I am a dog trainer in training. I am training in a “no-kill shelter” and come home every day in tears. I am not certain I can continue after watching and reading so much of Dr. McConnell’s research on environment. These dogs are so stressed and the staff refuses to take even the smallest suggestions for helping the dogs even a beautiful rottie I know is really suffering with a torn ligament. (I am also an MSRN with a PSYCH minor). The dogs I am working with are “learning” but will never be adopted. The price for a dog at this shelter is 169.00. I was always for the ” No Kill ” philosophy but seeing these dogs locked in a prison cell, sometimes 2 to a cell and allowed out to a long run where they can all bark like crazy for 4 hours before lock up again. There are staff who use positive punishment on dogs that are already aggressive and they encourage unwanted behaviors….it is endlessly frustrating. I wish I could take them all home. It kills me that San Antonio will become a no kill city! Anyone who embraces such a philosophy should spend a day in one of these places. I am so sorry for venting but I don’t know where to turn. I don’t know if I am helping these dogs or making it harder for them. Sometimes I feel like I am the only person in the shelter that understands the dogs are NOT happy…..Help……..PS Just finished watching Dr. McConnell’s Art & Science, Wonder if anyone ever studied people who don’t like dogs, how there brain chemistry differs….
Cally says
Timely post, for me. We’re on the “Cautious Canine” program with Amy, and educating humans is, necessarily, a big part of walking her.
Re: People are animals – oh, yes. I’m always amazed at the way we lose our words when we’re focused on something. The people who come up to us wanting to pet the cute, albeit terrified Maltese, won’t stop for anything less than body blocks. Amazing, considering how proud of our language we humans are.
I’ve found one recently-learned trick helpful: When an out-of-control dog approaches, I, too, will work with the dog rather than his owner. I’ve had owners get angry or confused at my body blocking their dog, though – so now, while using body language to communicate with the dog, I will coo “Well, hello there…who are you, sweetie?” Humans will invariably listen to what I’m saying, rather than what I’m telling their dog. Much less room for conflict.
To Robin: Thank you for mentioning using an umbrella as a shield. We’ll adopt that tactic!
Robin Jackson says
I have a friend who has a dog who really does not like to be touched. When someone grabs for her, my friend will often say, “She just had a flea treatment, you don’t want to get that on you!” or something similar.
Kat says
Ranger and I have been visiting an after school program for at risk youngsters lately to figure out what therapy dogs can do to contribute to their success. This has meant large groups of youngsters with poor impulse control mobbing my dog. Positive reinforcement for the kids made a lot of difference. Singling out the kids that asked first, “yes, you may and thank you for asking” and those that show good dog greeting manners, “great job letting Ranger meet you before you started trying to pet him. He really likes that” and similar remarks immediately led to more kids asking and more of them giving him time and space to greet them in comfort. The next teams from my TDI chapter that go into these programs are going to get a lot better introduction to the kids as a result. I often forget how much positive reinforcement a simple thank you for… can be.
Patrisha says
Going on the thread of how sensitive people can be with comments about their dogs…
I once had an older client in puppy classes with a very gorgeous, sweet, exuberant, and mouthy golden doodle pup. The client was very overwhelmed with handling this large puppy so as she was leaving class I wanted to praise them to encourage her and said something along the lines of “Fino is such a good puppy and a real fast learner, you really got lucky with him!”
Well she did not take that well at all. I got an angry call the next day about how I pretty much said she was incompetent and had no skill and was “lucky” she got Fido otherwise she wouldn’t be able to do anything that she already is doing.
Moral of the story: no matter how well your intentions are, make sure you communicate effectively otherwise you might as well have insulted them!
Nic1 says
When you have a reactive dog, you really don’t have time to engage with people when your dog is a hair breadth away from ‘idiot’ mode. You simply have to try and manage your dog and the environment as best you can. Sometimes, it’s a matter of survival mode and I definitely think that some people must think that I am either mad, aloof or inhabiting a different social universe due to some of the behaviour I have engaged in over the years to keep my dog out of trouble. I have literally turned and ran away from people whilst engaged in conversations; leapt into bushes; turned into a giant squeaky toy on busy pavements (sidewalks); done several emergency u turns back and forth whilst crossing a road, all the while ‘whooping’ loudly as we went…..
It can actually be fun having a reactive dog once you get into it and decide that it doesn’t matter what other people think. I feel that we are part of an exclusive club that only special people and dogs are members of…..:)
I realise that there is only so much modification you can do when you’re dealing with a dog who isn’t genetically prepared to be a great pet. But I have realised, the key to success is becoming a great team. We do seem to focus on the bad stuff, which is natural. I was thinking today about some compliments I have had from strangers about my dog. And I think we have all had them haven’t we? And when we get a nice compliment it inspires us to become even better.
There is absolutely no weakness in being nice to people, even when we think that people and their dogs are behaving like jerks. I do think that when you know better, you tend to do better and the only reason that justifies is to shout and scream is when either dogs or people are in immediate danger.
One of the best books I ever read on understanding the neurochemistry and biology of human behaviour was called ‘The Chimp Paradox’. It’s written by an extraordinarily successful psychiatrist who ended up in elite sport and was responsible for elevating the British Cycling team from nowhere to the best in the world in less than 5 years. He has a really simple model that anyone can understand based on our scientific understanding of the brains functionality. It is genius in it’s simplicity. Highly recommend this Trisha if you have never read it..
Having a reactive dog means that in some situations i found myself emotionally hijacked and rather than manage the situation rationally (by directing blood flow to a different part of the brain) I would become ‘reactive’ myself. Not helpful. What I realised was that I myself, as well as my dog, also needed to be trained so that I would become counter conditioned too…..
donna brennan says
I am looking for advice from anyone ……………Here is my story, I am both a long term “multiple dog” owner as well as a “rescuer”, so I have my “dogs” and then I have our “fosters”, and yes I am a gluten for punishment. I presently have the following in my pack, 1. Nemo (11yo GPyr neutered male 100lbs) 2. Sadie (10 yo GPyr spayed female 95lbs) 3. Simon (6yo St.B/Aussie neutered male 100lbs) 4. Jeffie (6yo Shitzu neutered male 25lbs) 5. Finnegan (2yo golden/wolfhound neutered male 110lbs) These guys have been a “pack” for a year (Finnegan was our adoption a year ago) during which time we have had many ‘fosters’ come thru. Finnegan is our “problem child”, he likes some fosters and acts as if he wants to kill others, I will try to be as specific but brief as possible: 1. Hannah – small female – he loved her, 2. KC – male leonberger mix with bad hips, HATED HIM, would try to go after him at any opportunity, 3. Mona – female – loved her, 4. Kenny – male pyr/newf – loved him, 5. Henry male labby/pyr – hated him at first then decided he loved him, 6. Argos – male pyr with mange – HATED HIM 7. Pixie – sm. Female – loved her
With fosters, if Finne has hated them, I have simply “rotated” dogs and kept him separate from the foster as I never want to stress a foster more than they are already stressed………….my other guys have always been used to fosters coming in and out and are wonderful with them without exception.
Simon and Finnegan (and fosters) are crated at nite and when we are at work, Nemo, Sadie and Jeffie have run of the house…………we have a fenced in back yard – good size – dog park nearby and when we are not working, we are with the dogs………Humans include myself and my husband, my 23yo son who is in and out and his comrades and my 25 yo daughter who comes home from time to time for a week or so…………we also have 2 cats.
One week ago today, while we were out back, our neighbor came to the fence to say “hi” to Simon, Simon began barking as he was excited to see him, and out of no where – Finnegan came running across the yard and attacked Simon, he had simon by the neck/ear and it took me about a minute or two to get him to let go………..I brought Finne inside (holding his harness) and Simon ran into the house……………after a couple of hours of “cooling” off, I allowed Finne back upstairs, holding his harness, and as soon as he got near Simon he again tried to attack, Simon obeyed me and moved away, but Finnegan was in “red zone” and left a bruise on me where his teeth brushed my butt ………….i have kept them separated since, working on getting Finnegan to walk by Simon’s crate with Simon in it without lunging at it……….we have moved from Finne lunging at simon even if he was crated, to his ignoring Simon when he is crated and see’s Simon not crated, or when he is not crated and Simon is……………So last nite we brought Finne up with leash and he was able to sit and lie down on command, noticed frequent yawning, very aware of where Simon was, but as long as he was tethered to me, he was ok,,,,,,,,,,,,,if I allowed him to get near simon, he would again try to attack……………..This morning, again tethered to my husband, he first ignored Simon, then turned around and went after him again…………..Simon will retaliate , pulling Simon out of the fight is much easier than disengaging Finne. There have never been any injuries to either dog and I have looked thoroughly for any puncture marks…………So this is where we are at, there are no fosters here presently. If there are suggestions / recommendations I would be eternally grateful………I love my dogs and ideally would like to jump back to a month ago when they all co-exsisted without issue…………not sure why/what has happened…………..my best guess is this is Finne trying to assert his dominance over the next rung………..??? Thank you so much for anything anyone can provide me !!!
Nic1 says
Trisha thanks for the heads up about the muzzle punching. It’s concerning she managed to make contact as I certainly don’t want that or any further escalation from that. If it had happened while I was there, I like to think I’d have managed to create enough space for her quickly. She isn’t a fearful dog which is why I am speculating that she was reacting like she was irritated or annoyed. No growling or barking but straight to a muzzle punch is something I have seen her attempt to do with a couple of dogs on seprate occasions. Usually if they are violating her space restrictions! She didn’t make contact, but punched the air between her and the dog. Have you seen that before? I think your ‘HEY! What do you think you’re doing?!’ expression sums her up nicely in those situations. She looks annoyed…I am inclined to think that some dogs do get a bit angry on occasions. Particularly the ones who are quick to arouse/reactive. Makes sense to me.
Nan S says
My 5 year-old rescued Lab has tried on several personalities in the six months we’ve been together. Initially extremely calm and friendly when leash walking, after a few months he got extremely leash reactive to other dogs (never people thank goodness). I happened to own Fiesty Fido from my previous dog, so went into the program of u-turns and Watch. Since he is the most food oriented dog on the face of the earth, he got Watch and AutoWatch quickly. We’re still doing lots of treats as we go by the other many many dogs in the neighborhood, and usually I try to be on the far side of the street, or even jog to go by some other dogs I know will react to him-don’t want to test him too far too fast. Most folks get our going past quickly, but several are miffed as if we were being anti-social (some of these same ones were extremely miffed when he was reacting to their dogs!). As we’ve gotten more relaxed and routine in our Watch-Treat-and-keep-walking, I find I can meet the eyes of other dog walkers and have noticed a lot of rueful smiles of acknowledgement as we go by. But one evening, a guy started shouting advice about how my dog wouldn’t be reactive if only I was the Alpha. I composed a long and indignant note to the neighbor email list (odds were good he would be on it) but never hit “send”. There would be no point.
Thanks for your books and all your advice. I apply the theory of Positive Incompatible Behavior to toddlers with some success, and to teenagers with no success whatsoever. And it changed my life with my dogs.
Rebecca says
I will say that I have occasionally had some success with asking people “Would you like some tips on how to handle X?” Do they actually try doing them after I tell them? No idea. But at least I have given them something to think about and follow up on. Sometimes, the best approach is the direct one.
Kat says
When we first adopted Finna and she fought the leash and collar on our walks one of my neighbors offered me advice. I listened politely thinking “yeah, as if you have a clue. I’ve met your barely controlled dogs, and I’ve seen how little you interact with them.” But when I really thought about what the neighbor suggested I decided the front clip harness was worth a try. Walking on a collar (flat buckle collar) and leash had been thoroughly poisoned for Finna before she ever came to us so changing to a different arrangement made sense. I researched the logic behind the front clip harness, found a good one and walks became much more pleasant–at least until Finna decided she was safe enough with me to show me how terrified she real was of everything. We’re working on it and she is making very slow but steady progress.
I think my point is two-fold, 1) I’m much more likely to listen to someone’s advice if I like their dog and the way they interact with their dog and 2) it doesn’t hurt to actually consider advice you’re given. Sometimes, even unlikely sources will have good advice, but ultimately, you’re responsible for doing what’s best for your dog.
diane says
I tend to blame my dog (but no one else better!)
For instance, my neighbor’s English Bull Dog and my dog have started to do a little “fence” sparring.
I have never seen this behavior from my dog except for one house in our neighborhood. It seemed to be in response to their fence charging behavior. I can control it if I see them out and distract my dog by running past the area. (My dog goes by many other houses with dogs behind fences without any response – even when they run up to the fence)
My neighbor’s dog also charges the fence, and at times my dog responds accordingly. I admit I was not certain if it was play behavior or something more aggressive, but didn’t like the scene or the low tones from them in general. I decided to listen to my gut and basically reprimanded them both with a “That’s enough” in a low firm tone (and they both nicely responded). My neighbor said his dog just wants to play and is very sweet. So I just said “my dog typically doesn’t do this, so I thought it best to calm HIM down.”
Hopefully this keeps the door open for future gentle “reprimands” if the behavior continues!
I know it’s pretty much the end of this post, but if anyone has comments on this fence thing, I would be interested in hearing it. Can it be just play?
Trish K says
@ Trisha thanks for the advice on the dog park, I’m not going. I am pretty bummed though. I’ve been delusional for months waiting for the park to open and envisioning my dogs running and playing with other dogs , everyone having a great time . It’s only four blocks from my house so I will be going there by myself just to watch the others.
@ Robin Jackson thanks for the article, it just reinforced my decision that it’s not a good time to go.
@ Lisa W – I can’t imagine that I’ll forget your story any time soon about the well intentioned stranger getting down on the ground trying to make your dog more comfortable. That’s hilarious and wonderful. I do think though that the kind man did exactly what the author intended it’s just that no one would most likely take it to that extreme. I’ve seen and heard Trisha talk about imitating full body wags and maybe more calming signals. I do wonder what dogs think about these signals and behaviors coming from us humans. I mean if it were a 7 pound dog that walked up and rolled onto it’s back and just stayed there maybe your dog would’ve been more comfortable.
LisaW says
Diane, I have had some experience with the fence sparring. I think the term for it is barrier aggression or frustration. In my opinion, it is not play, and if you can nip it in the bud now, you’ll be glad you did. Years ago, we lived next door to a young couple with a Golden Retriever. We had a stockade fence separating the properties, and one of our dogs at the time was extremely high prey drive and very selective about other dogs. Unfortunately, none of us noticed that the “play” fence sparring had slowly built up to actual fence fighting until it had escalated to a serious degree. The dogs would jump up and snarl and bite each other and actually make contact over the 6′ high fence. It was very stressful, and I had to be constantly redirecting our dog or watching to see if their dog was out in his yard. The couple got a divorce, and the ex-wife moved out and took the Golden. The ex-husband got a new Aussie puppy and we introduced the two dogs carefully, and had play dates, and the two dogs actually liked each other. I was so relieved.
Then one weekend our neighbor dog sat the Golden, who in about 10 minutes taught the Aussie to fence fight, too. That was the end of our truce and peaceful co-existence. The Aussie was even more dedicated to the job than the Golden had been, and there were injuries and high tension. We could get our dog to not engage for the most part, but our neighbor was not very consistent or concerned about it, so it was a constant issue. It’s hard to ignore a snarling doggie head popping up over the fence every 5 minutes — hard for us and much harder for our dog!
We don’t live there anymore, and our dog passed away, but the memory is still pretty vivid.
HFR says
To Marjorie: not sure you’ll see this as we are off to other topics but anyway…
Yes, talking about a fenced in dog park where only dogs are allowed (no membership required). Otherwise it’s just a public park and I obviously wouldn’t think people should expect dogs to jump on them in a public park! And, as i mentioned, my dogs wouldn’t be off leash in a public park.
I do know how to train my dogs not to beg. My point was that it wasn’t a priority for me. I make sure they aren’t annoying anyone but I’d rather train other stuff. We all have training priorities and I respect everyone’s choices.
Jamie Greer says
Once I was at an adoption event for my rescue, and we had a dog there that had become reactive toward other dogs after being there several hours, so we were trying to keep her away from other dogs passing by. No one could pick her up until the event was over. Her handler was standing with her in a corner, petting her and just letting her relax. A woman with a tiny Yorkie on a retractable leash approached and started talking to a volunteer handling another small dog. I was talking to another interested person about another dog, but was keeping an eye on this woman’s dog out of the corner of my eye. I see the Yorkie start to approach the reactive dog, his owner not paying a bit of attention, while the reactive dog’s handler is trying desperately to body-block the dog. They had no way to escape, as leaving the corner would have meant that they had to go toward the Yorkie. I saw the reactive dog stand and stiffen as the Yorkie tried to find a way between the handlers legs, so I excused myself from the person I was speaking with, ran over, grabbed the Yorkie’s leash about halfway down (owner still not paying attention), and led her safely back toward her owner. The owner screamed at me for “touching her dog.” I explained that I was trying to keep her dog safe from this other dog, since she was in a bad mood and didn’t feel like playing with her dog. The woman told me that I would never get a dog like that adopted, to which I replied that that would be my problem to worry about, and she was most welcome for keeping her dog out of harm’s way. 🙂 Still flabbergasted about that one.
Susan Royce says
Help, please. I am a positive trainer and have been asked to help a woman with her son’s 10 mo. old border collie/mix (aka “the shark”). Dog has no boundaries, no manners – i.e, no bite inhibition, no self control. Okay, I think, I can work with this. Dog is food motivated and will sit for treats, but when not actively sitting (is that possible:) launches himself repeatedly at his target – in this case me – and he nips/bites. He is lightening fast and loving every minute. Owner says he’s aggressive; he bites not only her but everyone in the house when in his “attack” mood. I said “don’t think so, just getting his jollies by this behavior”. I might add owner is from a different culture and it’s hard for her to understand what I’m trying to tell her. Anyway, I wore more protective clothing at our last session but still ended up with bruises. And then it happened – he bit my boob. And I’m ashamed to admit, I did something I haven’t done in over 10 years, I rolled him over on his back. Light bulb came on and he stopped biting me (negative reinforcement? I’m not sure) for the next 5 minutes, at which point our session was over. Even if I have temporarily gained some respect from this little guy, don’t think it’s advisable for owner to copy my “technique”. We have discussed need for exercise and need to reward any good behavior he offers. Any ideas? Thanks from the pin cushion (that’s me :).
Trisha says
To Susan R, aka “Pin cushion.” Ouch. Boob bites. The worst. I worked with a husky who targeted bellies, and felt like that was one seriously dangerous dog. My advice might not be helpful, because I’d try to move heaven and earth to convince the owner to send the dog back from whence it came. Hopefully a breeder who would take it back and attempt rehab. I can’t say much more than that, not having worked with the dog, but I have strong feelings about dogs who target the middle of the body. I’m wondering where this came from… a learned ‘game’ the kids taught? Something else? Either way, the dog is clearly beyond the abilities of the current owner.
Trisha says
I agree about “fence fighting” being problematic. No matter how it starts, it usually doesn’t end well, as LisaW illustrated for us. Thanks for that example Lisa. I would absolutely do all I could to turn it around.
Trisha says
And to Kat, before I have to run off and work on my SparcS talk…. great point about the importance of liking how someone interacts with their dog regarding listening to their advice. (Eeeps, speaking of advice, someone edit that sentence!)
em says
@HFR
Not really the most important point, but I did want to say that while you are generally correct, in my case, the idea that an unfenced dog park is ‘just a public park” is not actually true. Our park is clearly marked and legally designated as an “off-leash dog area.” Non-dog owners are welcome to use the park, (pedestrian only, no bikes, motors, horses, etc.) but with the understanding that their space is going to be shared with off-leash dogs. It seldom causes problems, since there is a general consensus that it is pretty unreasonable to visit the one-and-only off-leash dog park in the county if you don’t care to interact with off-leash dogs, especially since local parks with strict and well-enforced leash requirements (or total bans on dogs) abound. Bad dog behavior (charging, chasing, barking, or crashing into people) is another kettle of fish entirely, of course, and not welcome anywhere, fenced dog park included. Minor mischief, like begging or gentle jumping up, is usually tolerated (to a point) without much crankiness. There are always exceptions, but that’s the general culture, I’d say.
Not many parks precisely like mine exist around the country, (more’s the pity, since it’s as close to an ideal environment for dog socialization as I can imagine) , but several states (Maine springs to mind as the best in this regard that I personally know of, though there are plenty throughout the Northeast) contain public parks and designated wilderness areas where dogs ARE legally allowed to be off-leash (sometimes only in the off-season, sometimes year-round) and there is no compelling reason that a well-mannered dog with a reliable recall should not be allowed to be so.
My usual advice to someone looking for off-leash walking but seeking to avoid the inevitable scrum of a fenced dog park is to contact any local hunting/sport dog clubs to inquire about safe places to legally walk or train off-leash. Most pointer/retriever/spaniel field trialers will know where to direct you and be able to warn you off hunting seasons or unsafe spaces. Even if you have to drum up your own company, few things are better, IMHO, for dog socialization, than an off-leash ramble out in the field or forest with a pleasant companion or two (or ten, if you can swing it).
HFR says
@em: your park sounds wonderful. I often fantasize (or plan, if I were an optimist) to retire to a place that has such parks. To me nothing is as glorious as peacefully walking a trail with my well-behaved off-leash dogs.
Greta says
Just last night at flyball practice, I actually just started training a couple of my teammates’ dogs instead of coaching them. I WAS tired, having gotten up extra early to add something on to my schedule in the morning! Your first line made me laugh out loud!
Fortunately, the dogs had fun with me and the teammates seem to have recovered….
Tara says
I regularly take my 7 month husky to the dog park. She’s sweet and has never been aggressive at all. Today a couple brought a four month old puppy in and the puppy loved my puppy. They were wrestling and having fun. The lady started saying oh oh really loud and asking who the owner or my dog is. I claimed my dog and she said it was too rough. I said it looks like play to me and her dog hadn’t even made a sound. I brought my dog away and her puppy followed to play more while her boyfriend was lecturing me about my dog being too rough. It really hurt my feelings. The dogs were having fun and I wonder if they’ve ever even owned a dog before. Plus I waited until my dog was six months old like the sign and her trainer said the law states. What could I have said better than what I did? The puppy really liked my dog and my dog is very sweet.
LK says
Great post!
I am a volunteer dog walker for the SPCA. Every week I walk dogs who may not have the skill set to safely navigate the terrain of encounters with other peoples’ dogs. Some of them are dog reactive. Others are fearful and overly cautious. I am always watchful of situations where there might be a potential for the pup I am walking to show his/her issues as we learn more about them while walking. The area where we walk is a designated 0n-leash area and yet many people let their dogs run off-leash. When I see an off leash dog, I call to the person and ask that they leash their pooch. Frequently, I get the “my dog is friendly” response (and the dog is not at all displaying friendly behavior) to which I reply “this is a shelter dog and I have no idea if he is friendly or not to other dogs”. You should see how fast the people suddenly find their leash! I always have treats in my pocket to reward my pound pup for any good behavior and do use the treat toss to distract the loose dog before it gets within range of my charge in the event the owner is too arrogant or clueless to control their dog. Whatever it takes to keep me and my pup safe!!
Jean says
I had a lovely neutered male sheltie who was very friendly to everybody – 2 legged and 4 legged. However, if a dog ran toward us at full tilt, my dog became excited and I could tell by his body language that he wasn’t happy with this unknown dog coming on so quickly. If I went between the two dogs, my dog would instigate a fight. I learned that trying to separate them made the matter worse. So, I simply walked away. My dog immediately stopped fighting and came with me. I was never sure what he was thinking … that the other dog was on his territory (a public park), or that he was trying to protect me. Walking away worked, though.
Nia says
This is a great topic to draw attention to. As a dog walker who also does home boarding let me start by pointing out that no dog is 100% perfectly behaved 100% of the time. They have their moods and off days just like us. I keep the peace by greeting people in a friendly manner (I find this helps put nervous dogs at ease as well), acknowledging any less than perfect behaviour from my charges quickly correcting verbally in a calm firm voice, leashing if necessary and praising their
dogs for good behaviour. Showing you care about the other dogs welfare as well as your own goes a long way. I have had negative interactions with people who are highly ignorant of normal dog behaviour that have left me despairing but I do my best to avoid them in future. I also find varying my walks helps improve behaviour as there is a lot of sniffing and marking to be done in new places. It also stops the dogs regularly meeting the same dogs and potentially forming negative repetive behaviours. As I look after a lot of rescue dogs from neglected backgrounds I find a brief explanation of their history works wonders too.
Camille says
Hi,
Great article ! I would like to translate it in french to share with my students. Would that be OK with you ? I would of course sshare the link to your website.
Marcia says
I am a great fan of Patricia McConnell. Her books and videos on training a reactive dog were a god-send.
I have worked extremely hard to train a very reactive cocker-poo which we had adopted having been given
up because he was petrified of other dogs and employed the “I’ll-scare-you-before-you scare-me” technique whenever another dog was in view. He is now know as the “miracle dog” in the neighborhood because they all remember the early days. Given the above, I have the following observations. Deal with your own dog, rather than others’. If a child is being rude at the playground, you don’t scold that child or the parent. You help your own child, and perhaps nicely redirect the difficult child. Same for dogs. Secondly, it is not necessary to employ ficticious stories in your engagement with others. Lastly but most important, don’t assume you know more or everything about the dogs and their owners you are encountering. How many times during the course of that first year did I have people offer (sometimes in feigned politeness, sometimes aggressively shouting) advice on how I should be dealing with my dog. They had no idea what my dog’s problems or history were; whether we were working with trainers; how far along my dog had come or at what stage in my dog’s progress we were. Bless the young man, who after crossing paths with us many times on our evening walk, asked me “Would you like me to ask my dog to sit? Would that help?” He had taken the time to observe what I was doing and what was going on with me and my dog, realizing that my dog’s constant aggressive behavior was terribly unnerving to me but that I clearly was employing some method.
Gareth Owens says
What we need is a simple hand signal that can be seen from a distance that say please put your dog on lead