When do you intervene when your dog’s play becomes borderline? We all know that there is no simple answer to this question. (Except, of course… “It depends.”) I wrote extensively on this topic in May. However, the evolving relationship between Maggie and Willie continues to keep the question relevant on a daily basis. You might recall that I mentioned earlier I was quietly intervening when the dogs became emotionally aroused while playing tug. Maggie gets so excited she starts sounding like a chainsaw on steroids, and Willie sometimes gets that flat-eyed, lizard look that means he’s about to do something he shouldn’t.
When that happened I began saying, always in a cheerful voice, “That’ll Do” or calling Willie’s name to come to me. I was always happy and upbeat about it, careful not to sound like I was correcting anyone. I only did it when the dogs got so loud and excited that I was concerned it would boil over into a fight.
Because he is so responsive, Willie would immediately drop the toy, and trot to me happily, leaving Maggie standing with it dangling from her mouth. All well and good, but the result was that they simply stopped playing tug at all. I can’t tell you why–perhaps Willie felt that Maggie “won” all the time and it wasn’t fun anymore? Or that my “cheerful” calling him away really meant “don’t do that?” I’ll probably never know what caused the complete cessation of tug games, but I didn’t want them to stop playing tug altogether. Clearly I had to rethink my interventions. I decided to stay quiet and let the dogs play tug without me saying a word. After all, there had only been a few times in which one dog clearly lost patience with the other–usually Willie, and that was in their first three weeks together. Each time they had stopped when I said “HEY!” and so I didn’t feel like I was putting them at a high risk for injury.
It’s been at least a month, and Maggie and Willie are back to playing tug in the house as if they were about to fall into a pit and kill each other. And they never do. They are self-regulating beautifully. Even though Maggie’s growls sound like something out of a “Wolfman” horror movie, and Willie shakes the toy (with Maggie attached) like a terrier shaking a rat, they are doing beautifully. Who knows what will happen in the future, but for now they are better off with me butting out.
However, there is another context in which I have intervened, although in a different way. Willie, aka “The Jerk” (that’s not what I’m calling him at home, I will leave you to speculate about the term I am using), has begun playing a new outdoor game with Maggie called “Let’s Stop Maggie from Moving Forward by Muzzle Punching Her in the Face!” Wheeee! Willie thinks this is SUCH fun! And doesn’t seem to understand why Maggie has been less and less likely to want to play running games with him. I can slow or stop him by saying “Willieeeee” in a low voice, but that has the effect of also stopping super-responsive Maggie. So far the best solution Jim and I have found is to give Willie a stick or long toy to keep his mouth busy when they are playing outside. We encourage Willie to start running, and then Maggie chases him trying to get a hold of the stick. This way they run and run and run, getting good exercise and Willie stops thinking about treating Maggie like a Frisbee®. Willie seems to think that this is a great game. Maggie is killer smart, and figured out as soon as I did that this is the best way to keep Mr. Jerk Willie from smashing into her while they still get to run together.
How might this relate to other dogs? First, we should never hesitate to evaluate the results of our intervening (or not). There’s nothing wrong with trying out a (benevolent) method of handling a potential behavioral problem if you think it’s your best option, as long as you are ready to go to Plan B as soon as your first idea doesn’t have the effect you want. Nothing wrong with that. Another “take home” message here is that relationships evolve, and we need to be ever mindful and observant of what is going on at the moment. A frequent comment I heard from clients was “But he never did this before…”. But dogs change, and their relationships change, and we need to be ready to deal with what is happening now, not last week or last year.
What about you? I’d love to hear about times that you found yourself trying X and then switching to Y when you didn’t like the result, no matter what the issue you were trying to resolve. I’m confident there’s a lot of wisdom out there to be shared. I’m all ears.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Summer on the farm is in full swing. We spent much of the weekend fighting things we didn’t want to share the property with, including invasive thistles, Japanese beetles (argh!), and Virginia Stick Seed (double argh–this is the worst burr ever known to man and dog alike). However, we also got time to nurture desired plants like Culver’s Root and some native asters, and transplant a dogwood which was getting over run by a Hydrangea bush with visions of grandeur.
Willie and Maggie got to work sheep twice each on Friday, but Saturday was too hot and humid for them or the sheep, and Sunday was… well, Sunday I was just too darned tired, even though it was much cooler.
Here’s part of why I was a tad tuckered on Sunday: On Saturday six of us unloaded 430 bales of hay from two huge hay wagons and got it stacked neatly in the barn. The conveyer belt that you see below is called an ‘elevator’, which helps cut the work in half. Still, it takes tremendous effort. Three of us got the bales down from the wagons (an interesting physics puzzle and hard work, because the bales are jammed together like 45 pound, three dimensional puzzle pieces), and three others caught the bales as they dropped and stacked them carefully in the barn. Of course, it was during the hottest time of the day and sweat-pouring humid. I was reminded of my first night on my own as a college student in which a guy in a bar said, as we were dancing, “You sure sweat a lot for a skinny girl.” Best pick up line ever?
But oh, how good it feels to have hay in the barn! Living in the cold climates makes gathering food for the long winter both important and oh-so satisfying. Thanks to Gary, Guy, Lydia, Siri and the ever hard-working Jim for their efforts.
Here’s another fruit of our labors: Well, okay, not fruit, or vegetables either, just lots and lots of beautiful flowers. This used to be a veggie garden until I switched it to flowers when I was traveling all the time and feeling guilty about leaving the tomatoes or string beans rotting on the vine. Now I pick flowers for the house when I feel like it, and leave them to be beautiful all on their own if I don’t. Perfect. Now if I could just eliminate those Japanese beetles…
HFR says
You know, I’m not too proud to admit that, although I like my life, you live what was my dream life when I was young. I wanted to be an animal behaviorist but I had to drop that major as soon as I saw all the math requirements. My other dream was to live on a farm. It’s kind of surreal to read about what’s happening in what was supposed to be my life. With pictures and everything. I even think throwing bales of hay in high temps sounds idyllic. 🙂
I especially love the wild flowers. I love how wild flowers require no arranging. Wish life was like that!
Trisha says
To HFR: Would it help to mention the wasp sting on my upper lip that hurt so much my teeth hurt all night and my lip was so swollen I looked like a duck? (And hey, I never thought I’d get here either! I’m writing a memoir right now, and amazed at how my life changed in my 40’s. You never know….)
Debby says
“Flat eyed lizard look” what a wonderful description! I know exactly what that look is because my dog also gets it when she hears a novel sound outside the house.
Marjorie says
Oh I had such a good laugh at your “chainsaw on steroids & flat eyed lizard look.” I love your descriptions!
Mungobrick says
Interesting…we are going through that experience right now. Rosa (9 month old Bullmastiff) likes to grab Daisy (5 yo standard poodle/golden retriever/Wheaton) by the neck and hang on when Daisy runs, and Daisy doesn’t seem to like it. We’re stopping Rosa, but we’re not sure whether Daisy is unhappy when it happens because we’re telling Rosa off (she may think we’re upset with her as well?) or because she actually really dislikes it. Or whether it’s a natural thing for a Bullmastiff to do, so stopping Rosa may not be realistic. Or what. I do think a relationship between two dogs is a constant work in progress, especially when one is a growing puppy of a – let’s say assertive – breed and the other is totally unassertive. What was acceptable when Rosa was little may be less so as she grows. (And grows. And grows.) So we have to keep adjusting and hope we’re doing things right. Glad we’re not alone!
Kat says
After Finna wrecked her knee and had surgery to repair it we started the long and incredibly slow (if only she’d been willing to listen to me we could have been done in half the time) process of healing. The collision between her knee needing to mend and her belief that since it felt better after the surgery that meant she should do anything she felt like did not make for a quick or easy rehab. Sadly it meant that Ranger wasn’t allowed to play with Finna for the best part of a year. As her leg got stronger we’d allow her to play fetch for longer and longer periods of time but we still weren’t letting her rough house with Ranger. Since he likes to mount her and ride her to the ground then dance around while she writhes on her back kicking at him you can understand why I was reluctant to let them engage in play. Don’t get me wrong there’s lots of running as well but it’s interspersed with episodes of wrestling that always include the above. By the time Finna was deemed sound enough for play they both thought it wasn’t allowed any more.
It’s taken me acting like a total idiot running around screaming, bumping, and tagging but they’ve finally started playing again. It isn’t entirely spontaneous yet, I still have to encourage them to “get” each other and run about a bit shouting “get her” “get him” but it’s a start. They play well together and so far there haven’t been any occasions where I felt like I should intervene. Finna is really fast but when Ranger decides to, as we put it, go to afterburners she’s left eating his dust. He doesn’t do it very often and it always blows Finna’s mind when he does it. It makes me laugh to see him flying around the yard and her standing with her mouth hanging open in apparent astonishment.
parallel says
When our blind cat was young, I made the mistake of trying to train ‘watch your step’ because he gets overexcited and tends to run face-first into things. So I would see him about to smack into something and say ‘watch your step’…it might not come as a surprise that considering the situation, my tone was often tense and overly loud (so it was more SHOUTING ‘watch your step, fool!) The end result was he was became more hesitant to move and especially to run. So I backed way off and let him figure things out on his own. After a particularly bad impact I might say “oops!” but always in a calm, laid back tone. He’s a senior kitty now and STILL smacks his head every single day (I’ve honestly asked his vet why he never seems to suffer a concussion) but he doesn’t seem to care in the least and so I try not to either. Trying to intervene just bruised his confidence.
For whatever reason, I can use ‘watch your step’ while he’s outside on his leash without seeing the same hesitation. I think part of it is that the command is always paired with feedback through the leash (like a tug to the right or a tug back) so he knows he’ll be guided around whatever the issue is. ‘Watch your step’ in the house is too open-ended and can really mean any number of things.
(People always ask me how he gets around in the house…I want to be able to answer that he gets around great because most blind cats DO get around just fine and don’t routinely attack the wall with their skulls. So the answer always starts with “Welllll…..”
Marjorie says
My Teena’s recall is pretty good except for when she is chasing a butterfly, those she cannot resist. If you have ever seen a dog chase a butterfly you will appreciate how erratic and unpredictable the chase can be, nothing like chasing a stick or ball. It can quickly go far and wide leading her into dangerous situations, and my recall can go from calm to panic and shrill, which my other dog Taffy picks up on. Taffy will then take it upon herself and save the day by chasing Teena and cutting her off from the chase and shutting it down with body checks. Now anytime Teena wants to have a run Taffy cuts her off and she pulls up. I don’t think Teena is enjoying her walks so much any more because of this. It all happens so quick, I don’t get a chance to call Taffy back. I feel really bad and I do sometimes try and intervene , but I also hesitate to correct Taffy as she has actually saved Teena from some dangerous situations by cutting her off.
HFR says
Trisha: Yes, your life still sounds wonderful to me, wasp sting and all. I always tell people who envy the big city life about all the times I spend trying to get a taxi in the rain when it seems like taxis are an endangered species and about the smell of rotting garbage on the street in the heat of the summer, but they still think it’s an enviable lifestyle. I guess “it’s always greener” is trite for a reason. I look forward to your memoir! I only wish I was still in my 40s so there was hope I could change. 🙂
I find I do what I call “accidental training”. It’s when, without any effort, you’ve discovered you’ve trained your dog to do something. For instance, when my previous dog would drop her precious ball while we were hiking and leave it behind, I’d turn around to her, put my hands on my hips and say “what’s missing?” And then I’d go and try to find the ball. Of course, one day I did that and she went to find the ball herself. There is something about accidental training that is so delightful. So, yes, I do think it’s easy to inadvertently send a message to your dog. I guess we should call it a misunderstanding.
I almost always let my dogs play through any disagreements unless it really looks dangerous. But growling, staring etc. is their language and I usually let them talk to each other without my interference. I remember when the younger one was a puppy I would give them bully sticks. The older one would hold the bully stick in her mouth on one end and the puppy would chew on the other end. The entire time, my older dog (and a very confident girl) would emit a low ominous sounding growl. I just let it happen and I can’t help but think it helped them “share” later on. I now regularly give them frozen raw marrow bones and they will eat them side by side. Of course, that is also because their basic personalities lend themselves to that. But I would always rather let them figure out things for themselves if I possibly could.
@parallel: I laughed out loud reading about your cat. I’ll bet the poor guy is also thinking: Hey, whatever happened to my other senses getting stronger?
Nate says
I have two JRT’s. One is a 14 July 2013 female the other a 6 March 2014 male. I don’t nearly have your experience with dogs, but I have found that when the dogs get really active if I simply get up and walk towards the kitchen or closet where feed and toys are stored they cool off and come towards me. I sometimes give them an ice cube or a good boy and good girl for maintaining their focus on me while in an active state. As a whole I am all for letting the dogs sort it out especially when both have great dog communication skills. I did have one older rescue JRT whom had terrible dog communication skills (was not a fighter, just liked to have distance) but he began to learn as I exposed him to dogs with better communication skills. He eventually learned if he wanted to join the fun to keep the dinosaur and death growls to himself. In short, if your dog has the social skills I say trust them as they are far smarter than us.
Laura says
I have just encountered the same situation, having just rescued a lab mix and added her to our family of 4 labs. The rescue is just over a year and the youngest lab is 2. The first few days were tense as the two had a few scuffles. I finally put them in the yard to start to work things out and found that giving them a toy on which to focus during the chase, they were less likely to go after one another. If things start to go “over the top” with excitement, I simply bang a stainless steel bowl to get their attention and it breaks the arousal level.
Joyce Gauthier says
Always love reading your blogs! You’re switching up what wasn’t working made me think of my “crazy” boy Raven. Raven was extremely dog aggressive and a horrible bully to other dogs when we adopted him. After several years of work w/ him, we decided to add another dog to the mix (he was currently co-existing w/ my other male GSD Jak). When we found Kaia (at the time 7 1/2 month old female GSD who had been returned to her breeder), we carefully integrated her into the household and initially had kept her in an exercise pen in the living room whenever Raven was loose. One problem was when we needed to bring her outside to potty. I did not trust Raven at all at this point interacting without the exercise pen between him and Kaia. We tried putting Raven in the bedroom when we moved her — much screaming and throwing himself at the bedroom door ensued. We tried blocking him in the living room by opening the exercise pen in a way that barricaded him — lunging at the exercise pen as Kaia moved was the result of that. We tried having my husband hold him by the collar — holy crap! That didn’t work — complete meltdown. Finally I decided, let’s put those three years of training we’ve done to use — he had a great “down” and a rock solid “wait” cue (although not tested in this situation) as well as a great “back up” cue. Before opening the exercise pen to let Kaia outside, Raven was asked to lie down and wait while I walked Kaia past — lo and behold, he did it with no stress or reactivity involved! As I brought Kaia down the stairs to go outside, I would release Raven from his “wait.” As Kaia and I came back into the house, if he was at the door, he was asked to go up the stairs and wait while we entered. Before bringing Kaia up the stairs, Raven was asked to “back up,” “lie down” and “wait” as Kaia was put back into the exercise pen. Absolutely ZERO reactivity on his part and I honestly believe by taking the stress out of this situation, it helped him adjust and accept her quicker (within two weeks, they were able to be loose — though closely watched — together in the house when we were home).
MJ says
Virginia Stick Seed — It has a name! I’ve googled it but never came up with a name. Hideous stuff. Has glued my dog’s ears over his eyes.
Bianca Schmid says
I always find it fascinating to watch our staffy / shar pei girl Amaya playing with other dogs. She beautifully regulates her own strength and play wrestles or plays tug at much lower intensity with her new whippet brother Wile E. Coyote, then takes it up a notch when playing with her cockapoo BFF since puppy hood and does not have to hold back at all when play wrestling with a pit bull / presa canario cross we regularly meet.
But there are also dogs where I know that I will have to keep a closer eye on the playing (not that I don’t observe/supervise the other play sessions). Amaya regularly plays with another puppyhood friend, a beagle and both of them have the capability to become impatient or possessive over a toy. So, while whippy brother and cockapoo BFF can take sticks and balls out of her mouth all day long, Amaya and beagle friend can play beautifully for 10 minutes and the things suddenly change. And I also would say that the look on their face suddenly changes, the tug is getting less frantic but at the same time it seems to me more calculated and intense.
If either I or the Beagle’s mom catch it early enough, we go into happy-clappy-squeaky-voice mode and we then walk away from them and call our dog to us. Both beagle and staffy x were our first dogs and I have to say that we both have learnt so much in the 2 years since we got them. Early on, I would have tried to physically intervene if my dog or one I knew well enough got into a scrap, now I do the opposite. I walk away and call my dog away from the situation, before the scrap erupts or at least long long long before a noisy scrap turns into an actual truly harmful and much more silent fight.
Margaret T says
I have a 4 year old golden retriever and her 4 month old daughter. It has been interesting watching the play styles change, and yet in some ways stay the same. Annie (the mom) is doing much less self-handicapping these days. She has never done much correcting, but Tess is getting bigger and stronger, and it will be interesting to watch them sort things out. I’m glad to have this column as a reminder that I need to be observant as things even up.
Emily Rowe says
I had to goldens that got along beautifully. The older one ( 6 years) had resource guarding issues over food but we managed that. Lola , ( about 3 years) was my “bomb proof” therapy dog. She never had a problem with anyone. We took in a foster puppy and all of a sudden out of nowhere ( we were in the kitchen however which could be a trigger for older dog) Lola attacked the older dog leaving puncture wounds and acted like she wanted to kill her. After getting them separated and taking the older dog to emergency vet to get stitched up they never had another problem. Obviously the foster pup changed the dynamics but I am still puzzled by the whole thing several years later.
Beth says
For dogs that know each other I always let them figure out play by themselves. But I have trained an “easy” with my female that likes to be the play police with younger dogs. She takes it nicely and just ramps her energy down a little. It took a while and a lot of practice to teach it though. I think the reason it worked for her instead of totally turning her off of the game was that I give it to her as a soft reminder when the games start. It kind of gives her permission to go play so she gets that reward for the word. Then if she gets over the top I can change my tone slightly and add her name and it is usually enough to make her scale back. It could also be that her level of excitement and general naughtiness gives her enough drive to find the thin line that is allowed. If she is too over stimulated then I will call her all the way back to me.
But for tug I think the best plan is to let them figure it out. Sometimes it does get past what sounds like a game and becomes serious but letting them work through that seems like a pretty good way for them to learn how to deal with that kind of energy in themselves and other dogs. I will say I would be careful to watch any other dogs around while it is happening, most will back off but I’ve had a couple take cheap shots.
The only thing I would intervene with is if one is being a jerk about the toy when it is on the ground. No resource guarding allowed!
Heather Staas says
At daycare we work on teaching everyone an “enough” cue.. stop what you are doing.. and then “OK” back to playing. They catch on fast. Then we use it to “test” if dogs are still doing ok. If they are listening, responsive, cooperative, we feel comfortable letting them continue on in the tug game even if it was sounding rowdy and intense. Always happy and in a cheerful voice. If either dog “can’t” respond, it’s time to put the tug toys away, change the scenery, etc. With a mental note that tug may not be a safe game for that particular dog while at “school.”
Mary Collins says
One of the most satisfying training exercises I’ve done with my dogs (aussie and aussie/BC) is the impulse-control tug game that I played with them individually long before they started tugging with each other. Each of them learned to stop tugging instantly on a quiet “ok” command. Now if their after-dinner tug game (preceded, I’ll admit, by squealing demands in front of the closet where the tug toy lives) starts to go over the top, I just put my hand between their snarling muzzles and whisper “ok”. They let go simultaneously. One of the two fellows has some tendency to resource guard (different snarl, which causes the older fellow to back off), but even if that’s happened, my resource guarder just lets go on “ok”.
Kara says
We’re trying to figure out how/when best to intervene right now–since we moved from a home on a quarter-acre lot to one on almost three acres, both of my Aussies have been blissfully running all over the place. Unfortunately, Sydney–my girl–has recently started running full-speed at Darwin (my boy) and delivering a WWF-worthy body-check. It’s reached a point where Darwin will put his ears back and run for the door, but Sydney bounds after him, barking and play-bowing and trying so very hard to get him to play. They’re the same age, but her preferred brand of play is a good deal rougher than Darwin likes (most of the time–there are the odd days where he’s just as full of P&V as she is).
The problem is, verbal intervention doesn’t really work with Sydney. She gets so very wound up and hyper-aroused that she… simply doesn’t hear anyone (aka “joy-related deafness”). Current thinking in the household is that giving her a wee squirt with a water pistol might snap her out of the crazies, but we’ve not tried it yet.
Gayla says
Thank you for re-visiting this subject and explaining your thoughts about changing your mind! My biggest take-away is to realize I’ve been interrupting a conversation that I don’t really understand. Sounds like if Willie was a human male, he’d work out so that he had really big biceps… and yeah, tattoos! He’d like tattoos.
I think ducks eat beetles. (?)
Karissa says
None of my dogs will play with toys together. On the couple of occasions that I have encouraged it and they took to it, my border collie pretty much gives signals that she’s going to kill the other dog if they don’t let go and when my two little dogs tug it quickly becomes obvious that they are battling each other out, and not in a fun way. I’ve always wished my dogs would play together with toys, but it’s not meant to be in my house I guess.
My youngest goes over the top when we are out playing fetching games. She used to chase and bite at my lab mix (the only one who will tolerate the behavior because my border collie would flatten her in an instant) and I felt so bad for him. I started shoving a toy (rubber stick or a ball) in Kizzy’s mouth before we started playing fetch and problem solved. She still runs along side him doing her hyperactive little bouncing and growling, but because there is a toy in her mouth she is no longer biting. Best of both worlds, everyone gets worn out.
Sometimes the two little dogs get a little overboard in their wrestling and feelings get hurt. I can tell by the tone of their growls or barks and usually a simple, “hey, hey!” is enough to distract them. In the earlier days I threw a couple buckets of water their way to break things up because they seemed to hold grudges and it was the only way to change the subject. 🙂
Chris Baumann says
I have a 4 yr old Brussels Griffon, puppy mill dog…..the large kinda BG..i call her a Grande!!! She is a wonderful, very passive dog, loves competing in dog sports, and gets along with everyone and every dog. I also have a Welsh Terrier pup, female 5 months old, and a Shih Tzu female 2 yrs old, street dog rescue…they all get along very well,no problems in the house, or the car, or at events, or at restaurants….the problem is when they go out into the backyard, to play or first thing in the morning…the Welshie likes to grab the facial hair of the Brussels! Not funny!!! The BG grumbles and tries to pull away…actually hurt her neck pulling away…lots of noise..never any biting!!! So, now I make sure I have a handful of toys, to throw and redirect the Welshie, so that the BG can get away…sometimes i just throw their toys in different directions! But still, when that Welshie gets a bee up her behind…she loves to antagonize the BG!!! Lots of redirection…never left together when there could be a possible terrier frenzi!!!!
Daniel says
We have a rescue named Georgie who’s nickname is also “The Jerk”. We don’t call him that to his face (or ears in actuality). He has been with us for just over 1 year and sounds so much like Willie. Bright, confident, beautiful, and in Georgie’s case highly insecure. More than likely there is lots going on inside him than I will ever know, but knowing a bit about the 18 months of life he had prior to our adoption – that included removal from the litter at 7 weeks and stuffed into a crate for 8 hours a day and later living at the end of a rope when he quickly outgrew the crate combined with an owner that has “anger issues”. Georgie has worked on the point system since day one of his adoption. He is very good and relentless at it. His answer to most problems is usually direct confrontation. I decided early on to let him and my now three year old Lab work things out by themselves as much as possible and only intervene if an actual fight broke out. Well that has never happened. However, lots has happened, just no broken skin. My Lab does not fight back. Ever. He is just not wired that way. As a result though he is losing the confidence in himself , or so it seems. When they play tug or ball chase it’s a fair game until my Lab – Tahlee gets the upper hand. Then it’s time for Georgie to act aggressively to win the game. I intervene when Georgie grabs a mouthful of fur or a leg, or blocks Tahlee from retrieving a ball, but I am not sure of the wisdom in this. To some degree they ARE working it out by themselves because Tahlee does not want to play with Georgie much anymore. Bummer for both dogs. In Georgie’s defense I can understand, Tahlee has an incredible line on the ball, he almost always will come up with it. He also has a way of wrenching a tug toy out of the 130 pound Georgie’s mouth, so he usually wins that game as well. Until Georgie uses his best tool – intimidate Tahlee into dropping the hard earned resource.
I knew Georgie was going to be a hand full prior to our adopting him and almost did not adopt him but he was on his way to the SPCA when we got the phone call, he needed a home. His owners were moving and could not keep him. He had lots of issues that might prevent him from being adopted out, touching even a front paw would result is a snap. Fiddling with a spot on his fur, a snap. Reactive to any abnormality, bicycles, carts, other dogs, cats, the list goes on and on. But, watch him with a group of kids playing and he jumps and spins and loves them. Such a wonderful dog and desperate for a second chance, we went for it. If you are still reading this lengthy comment, I am really impressed! He can be handled now, cuddles with our cat, no longer food guards, will turn away from most things now and is slowly taking life’s weird things more and more calmly and is very willing and quick in training. An awesome, awesome dog, but he is still a Jerk.
Gayla says
Thank you for re-visiting this topic. I’ve been dying to know what made you change your mind.
I do a lot of solitary hiking with my female aussie. On the rare occasion that we’d meet someone else on the trail, she would rush at them, barking hysterically. My “Plan A” had been to keep walking at the same pace and act nonchalant in an effort to convey, “this is no big deal.” I discovered my “Plan B” when I finally realized that if I greeted them cheerfully, and they answered in kind, she was okay. Interestingly, them answering is a critical component. About a month ago, I repeatedly shouted, “Hello!” “Good Morning!” “Nice day, isn’t it?” to a man and his teenage daughters who would not say anything in reply. Thankfully, she was on leash because she was instantly concerned, and I had to drag her in the other direction while she barked and lunged frantically.
HFR says
OT: Just signed up for first day of APDT conference where you are keynote speaker. It’s only a couple hours away and I’m going to take a day off from work to drive up there. That’s the plan, anyway. Looking forward to it! (And the trade show too, I love that stuff.)
Sumo's Mom says
I am SO glad this blog was recommended to me by a friend. I recently fulfilled a dream and got my first French Bulldog puppy. Sumo (loves to wrestle) is 4 months old and I decided to take his mom also — Toast is 4 years old. I have been concerned about the intensity of their wrestling matches and more so about the aggressive behavior Sumo exhibits once in awhile towards his mom. Was hoping Toast would lay down the law and teach him some manners but she mostly defers to him and walks away if she doesn’t want a confrontation. I should explain this only happened (so far) when I gave each of them a raw bone; yes, I know, this may have brought out some instinctual dominance issues? She usually patiently goes along with his constant need to wrestle and often throws him to the ground and pins him down or jumps on a chair to get some much needed down time. My question is — should I let them work it out and hope he doesn’t grow up to be a bully (pun intended) or is it my job to teach him some manners?
Trisha says
To Mungobrick: It’s tricky to intervene sometimes, isn’t it? A correction or even benevolent intervention is hard to focus onto one dog. If I say Willie’s name in a low voice when he’s about to punch into Maggie, Maggie stops and looks at me. But I do agree her that Daisy probably is ot enjoying being grabbed by the neck and it should be stopped. (And no, it’s not a Mastiff thing, it’s just a rude thing!) Will Rosa play with something in her mouth, like Willie? The other suggestion is to try yelping whenever Rosa grabs a hold, as if a pup has been hurt by another during play. I’ve seen dogs respond to this with a startle response, and then do a better job self handicapping later on. But the yelp has to be convincing: High and loud. Give that a try?
Trisha says
To Kat: Please send video of you running around the yard “like an idiot” or at least a photo of Finna’s mouth open when Ranger kicks in the afterburners. Love the description!
To Marjorie: Wow, that’s a new one! I can see the challenge–keep one dog’s protectiveness but stop it from ruining play. I’d try to redirect the play police if you could, assuming that in true danger it would come out again.
To Joyce: I love your using the skills your dog had to solve a problem, and that sometimes it is not obvious that you can use them. I remember numerous clients whose dogs had obedience titles who hadn’t thought of asking their dog to sit-stay until I asked them to give it a try. Funny how contexts don’t always lend themselves to being combined!
Trisha says
To Emily: Oh my, what a terrifying experience. So glad that things have settled down. I too have explanation for why your previously docile Golden attacked the other dog, but I’m sure glad things are fine now!
To Heather: Excellent policy to test if the dogs will stop on cue as a measure of whether their play is acceptable. Love it.
To Kara and rude play from one dog to another: I sympathize, this is somewhat similar to Willie’s rude behavior when outside, although a bet more extreme. There is no question that it is rude, if not abusive, to the other dog, but intervention can be tricky because it happens so fast. Have you tried yelping as if YOU were the one who was run into? Sometimes that helps, just make it loud and high, and just as contact is made. By the way, Willie’s shoulder surgery (and 14 months of recovery) was caused by another Border Collie running into him at full bore. I’m just saying.
Trisha says
Gayla: Have any ducks for rent?
To HFR: Come up and say hi at the conference! Will be great to meet you in person!
liz says
Humping: At 4 years old, my neutered Labby boy was finally healed after surgery and a broken leg when we added a spayed puppy girl to the household. He and I were thick as thieves, though in general he had his “willful and imposing” moments where it seemed he hadn’t entirely outgrown adolescence or something… And he was determined to hump the puppy girl. I was equally determined to ask him “off” each and every time he mounted. Sometimes that required upwards of five “offs.” (I tried a few follow up commands to try to chain together, which were ignored, sigh.) At the urging of friends (possibly amused, possibly annoyed, believing he’d grow out of it, or simply unconcerned by the behavior), I tried the suggestion of letting him hump her. She ignored him at first, then squirmed about to run free. Being that the little Shepherdy girl wasn’t so little at this point, and that it seemed she would eventual outgrow Labby, and that she had moments of fear in other parts of life, I decided to continue “Plan Off” until she was fully grown and more confident. So overall, I went through about a year with the “offs” when I figured I’d stop intervening. For a while the Shepherdy girl would instantly look to me whenever she was mounted. Gladly her reaction switched to managing to initiate play. Mounting quickly became Labby’s version of a play bow, or he quickly realized that if he was to mount her she would try to play. Hence humping equaled play, and if he didn’t want to play he no longer mounted. By this time they were thick as thieves and the puppy girl “knew” she could rely on me if she really needed it. I think it worked out well (despite some briefly confounded friends). A very gradual switch from Plan A to Plan B, but an important one nonetheless.
I love this post because I think we try to tweak what we do with our dogs so often that we don’t even realize we go through plans a, b, c ,d, etc. There’s been a variety of medical things I’ve switched, from different recovery protocols to managing year-round nasal allergies, that became so tailored to the individual dog that the original processes barely resemble where we are now.
Laceyh says
Ducks also eat snails with enthusiasm, but they do mess up the lawn and flowerbeds. You can’t win them all.
Robin Jackson says
When I was very young, and lived in a houseful of many, many animals and people, my mother would always say, “First look at the outcome.” This was because quite a few of the animals (and I suspect more than one of the children) had mastered the art of provoking another creature into “misbehaving” just enough that the adults would intervene, focus on the provokee, and the provocateur would end up getting just exactly what they wanted.
In our house now, with “only” two dogs and four people, Tulip is a genius at this. She weighs 25 pounds, Dilly weighs 75 pounds, she is cute and nimble (even as a deaf blind very old lady) and he is, well, a klutz. So she can steal his crate, his toy, his treat, and pretty much anything she wants and get him blamed for it.
Since she entered her deaf blind phase, the two of my kids who don’t live here have been coming by more often, which she enjoys very much, and showering her with attention. There were quite a few squabbles going on between the dogs when one of the kids came in the house, and I noticed very soon that the outcome was inevitably Dilly being shut in the other room and Tulip having the visitor kid all to herself with full access to the couch, kitchen, and basket of dog toys.
Granted, she is a deaf blind fragile little old lady dog who is literally 1/3 his size, so some intervention was always going to be required. But I started intervening VERY early by removing her to one side and holding her out of the way as Dilly got his chance to say hello, and then sending him to relax in his open crate with a toy while she got to sit on the couch with the kid.
Then when he wanted to come out of the crate, I had the kid restrain her on the couch so he could unimpeded get to the water bowl, the dog door, or whatever. Then settle him again and let her go.
More than once she ran over to his crate and stood outside, basically daring him to come trip over her so she could get him banished again, but he’s been smart enough to lie low, literally.
The end result has been literally zero squabbles when we have visitors. It was clear proof that she was the instigator, because restraining her, not him, solved everything.
So along with all the other wonderful advice here, I would add my mother’s suggestion to “first look at the outcome.” Sometimes the intervention is needed in quite a different place, or with quite a different dog, than it might first appear. 🙂
Kerry M. says
Great post and interesting comments. I have a 6 month old lab pup as well as two adult dogs and I’m finding myself intervening less and less every day.
My current infractions are: humping (everyone humps at my house… Sigh), collar grabbing (this is solely the puppy’s fun times), barking (again, just the pup), and hackling. Everyone is pretty good at stopping at a “hey!” They stop for a couple of seconds and then I let them go back as long as they don’t go back to the problem behavior.
The “old man” of the house is six. He is my play police and my very own beloved jerk. My most successful intervention has been with him because he likes to obnoxiously interrupt the other two when they play, usually by mounting but sometimes by pinning one of the younger dogs. I think it’s a mixture of jealousy and just wishing everyone would shut up for a second. What I did with him was reward him for ignoring the play. I keep treats nearby and when the other two start playing, I call him and treat him. It has gotten to the point where he mostly just gives me this look of forbearance while they play. And when I go that look from him, he gets a treat from me.
Ruth says
When we brought home our new puppy he weighed a whopping 6.5lbs, and could have easy fit into the mouth of our 1yr old Tibetan Mastiff (who weighed 100lbs). The new pup was completely unafraid of the TM, throwing himself willy-nilly into roughhousing play.
After narrowly stopping the TM from grabbing the pup by the body, we began insisting that the TM play with the pup while holding a toy in his mouth. We did this by simply forcing a toy at him every-time they began playing. And it worked beautifully. And had the added advantage of giving the puppy another thing to grab when they were playing. 2yrs later the habit still holds, our TM frequently still grabbing a toy to play with the (now 30+lb, 2.5yr old) puppy.
Rachel F says
My dogs seem to play tug in an almost ritualistic way and do make a lot of noise while doing it. Have had problems with seeing the drive to play shut down too. Have enjoyed reading all the comments, hope I canremember to do some sort of distract/redirect next time I need I that doesnt diminish their appetite for play.
carole schiavi says
I have a 15 month old “Beardie” that loves to play tug but gets so rambunctious that he seems to lose control and gets too wild. He also refuses to leave the article when I tell him to “leave it”. Should I continue to play tug or not?