I took him back. It was one of the hardest decisions I’ve ever made, because I adored so much about him (see last post). Mick, as I named him, is extremely responsive (came EVERY time I called and clapped), very happy to investigate new things, is not sound sensitive, was already fetching, and was starting to play with Will. He is going to be a great dog for some lucky person.T
But the primary reason I got a puppy was for Will. He needs a playmate, and he needs to not have exclusive access to everything in the house, me and Jim included, for too much longer. I need a dog who is going to get along beautifully with Willie, and who, unlike Will, is totally comfortable around unfamiliar dogs. I want a dog who is bomb proof with people and children, a dog who loves other dogs and will be a great friend to Will. Will’s best friends have been small, submissive males, and I wanted either a small, sweet female or small male who loves other dogs and would never bully Will. I also don’t want to get stuck without a good working dog, and my absolute favorite activity with a dog (besides cuddling on the living room floor) is herding sheep. Needless to say, I know that I am asking a lot: a solid disposition, a working dog with great instincts and sheep sense who is strong enough to face down a defensive ewe but biddable enough to listen to me without a battle. Throw in physically sound, great with people and dogs, and oh yeah, Santa Claus, could you also make him cute as can be?
What worried me, nagged me relentlessly, about Mick was that 1) rather than running right up to Will when I brought him home he ran away, looking frightened. In some ways it was good, because he wasn’t all over Willie and didn’t overwhelm him, but the puppies I’ve seen who inherently love other dogs run right up to dogs with a “Oh oh oh! You’re a dog! I’m a dog too! Hewwwwwwwwwoooooo, can we be friends?” That in itself wouldn’t have been a deal breaker, but add in Mick’s vigorous scratching after defecating and adult-like mounting of Will, and the flags began to fly. I think nothing of puppies mounting each other at this age, it seems relatively common, but this guy looked like an adult stud dog breeding a bitch. He did a complete foreleg clasp (I had to pry his legs off of Will), eyes shut, hard thrusting, tongue flicking. Honestly, at one point I actually thought “Good grief, did he ejaculate?” And this was just hours after coming to a new place, and to an adult 50 pound male dog.
So what did that portend, really? Oh heck, no one can say for sure, but it raised the odds that this might not be a dog who is totally mellow and bomb-proof around other dogs. And, most importantly, who wouldn’t bully Will when he gets older. Miserably indecisive, I reached out to dear friends–how lucky I am to have some who are brilliant behaviorists and trainers, and asked what they thought. The responses were consistent: “Well, might be fine, but seeing such adult-like behavior in a 9 week old pup is a bit of a red flag in a dog that young. If you want the odds on your side, you might want to consider taking him back.” (That’s an average of the responses… they varied from BAIL NOW! to “Can’t you wait a week and see?” But most people had the same concerns I did given what I wanted.)
After a lousy night, I bit the bullet, (heart sick, cuz I LOVED so much about this puppy), and asked a dear friend to drive up with me to return him, with the idea that I’d consider another male who also tested well. I was prepared to take that one back or drive back with no puppy at all. This time I took Will with me (the first time I picked out a pup I thought I wouldn’t be able to tell much from Will’s reaction. He’s had so little experience with puppies and I wanted to ease him into it). I let out the other male of interest, and this time let him meet Willie. Will did a full piloerection, hair straight up half way down his back. No growl, but tense body. The pup however, looked very comfortable, which I loved. I was primarily focused on the pup, less on Will because I assumed Will would be a bit nervous, so I was happy with that response on the part of the pup. Then I brought out a sweet little female who I had discounted because she was a bit shy. Same response to me this time, too fearful to even come over to me, so I put her right back. I think she’ll be just fine, but not the best pick for someone whose dogs go everywhere. There was one other male there who I had quickly discounted when I did the first tests because 1) He was quite soft, so much so that I didn’t do the startle response test because I thought it would be too much for him. He was very sweet, settled instantly when I rolled him over, brought back the paper the 2nd time I threw it, but clearly much more cautious about the world than Mick. And oh yeah, okay, full disclosure: he just didn’t catch my eye. Okay, that’s not honest enough. I just thought he was sort of plain looking. Okay, still fudging the truth here. I said to Jim “That puppy is just too darn ugly to take home.” May I someday be forgiven.
You know what is coming next. After deciding to leave without a pup, I walked by the puppy pen one more time and the cautious little male just happened to catch my eye. His ears have started to go up, and his face looked plain but super sweet, so I picked him up and introduced him to Will. The pup ran straight to Will, Will play bowed, and they began to race around the yard together. My heart did that thing in which it seems to double in size in your chest, my eyes got extra wet, and I picked up the pup and drove him home. Decision made.
Thanks Will, I needed that. Nothing like a dog to know about another one, hey? Here he is, getting cuter to me by the minute. He is indeed a bit cautious of the world, more sound sensitive than I like, but he adores people, runs right up to them, recovers well from his fears. So far (all 15 hours worth of time!) he seems like a pup who could come out just wonderfully with the right start. I’ll write more next time about the correlation between the tests and the pup’s behavior at home, but the pup (no name yet) is sleeping now, and I’ve got to grab the time to get other work done! And I’ll also add in the same caution that I tell all puppy buyers: You simply CAN NOT know what you have until they are much much older…. so we’ll see what we’ve got when he’s a year or so. I am clear that this dog is literally auditioning for a job. (Are you listening, the emotional center of Trisha’s brain? Your frontal cortex is talking!)
But for now, here he is, my new, sweet-sweet little boy. Pretty is and as pretty does, and I’ve decided he is slam-dunk adorable.
Susan says
Well I’m a sucker for thin blazes, so I think he’s cute! And thanks for the honesty of being able to say you opted to take the dog back rather than try to be constantly working against nature.
Jennifer says
I am *such* a sucker for plain black faces! I currently have a black bi Aussie (no pics on my site, shame on me) who has about the same amount of white on his face as No-Name-Pup (he even has the half white nose on the same side). My guy is shyer than I’d like (hindsight – more socializing would have been good), but he gets better as we work on it (I keep wondering if I should have taken his braver brother instead, but he’s perfect in so many other ways that I think it’s still a toss-up). I look forward to learning your new guy’s name, and reading about his adventures growing up.
Frances says
What a sweet little face – and I love the little brown cuffs! I suspect that Will has chosen just the pup you need – and who could give him a better chance of overcoming any early anxieties than you? I have not forgotten Sophy hiding behind the door when I chose her – she had simply had enough of new stuff, and was playing if-I-can’t-see-you-you-can’t-see-me. She was horribly sick all the way home in the car, and shivery and subdued when we got home. After an hour’s sleep in a warm box, she woke up, scampered over to where I was lying on the floor, pushed her nose into my ear – and bingo! we were bonded! I will be interested to see how much say your cerebral cortex has in 12 months time – I suspect you will be head over ears in love well before then. I do admire you for having the courage to admit the first pup was not right for you, and taking him back immediately. I hope you get the opportunity to follow his future development – and that of the other puppies in the litter. It would be very interesting to see how predictive their personalities as babies prove to be of their behaviour as adults.
Karissa says
“Too darn ugly to take home.” That line made me laugh out loud, until I scrolled down and saw his picture — Good heavens, he is adorable! He may not be the most flashy animal on the planet, but he is very symetrical and cute. I think he will turn into a handsome dog as he ages.
I feel that going for the most “confident” dog of the litter is a sure-fire road to the most “dominant” dog of the litter (there’s that D word!). In fact, the very reason I picked the most outgoing dog of my girl’s litter is because I knew I needed a dog that would be able to fend for itself with my VERY sure of himself intact male (Alaskan Klee Kai).
Kaiser actually, more or less, “picked” the male of the litter when I let them meet — But I just knew that if I brought that boy home, Kaiser would dominate the heck out of him and make his life miserable. When I saw the split-faced female actually snark at Kaiser at one point when he got in her face, I knew she would be the best fit for our house. They played well, but she was not about to be bullied.
They have an interesting relationship. Once in a blue moon he’ll mount her, but overall their playtime is quite balanced and they take turns with their dominant/submissive roles (ie: who is chaser vs. chasee, who takes down who, etc.).
I knew the outgoing female would be a thorn in my oldest dog’s side because he just wants to be left alone, but thankfully the younger two tend to keep each other occupied and out of the old man’s hair. 🙂
I’m sure you made the right decision. Such immediate & aggressive mounting behavior from such a young puppy would have been quite the turn-off for me as well and obviously not a good match for Will.
Anne J says
That pup is just cute as can be. I’m sure Will will be happy with your decision to get him a more docile puppy friend.
I am so glad I turned Sprite out with the puppies when I was choosing mine- the other puppy got rather stiff and sat under a chair, Pepper, who I took home, followed Sprite around looking adoringly at her. There were only 2 girls for me to choose from. Oh, and Pepper was the plainest marked pup of the litter too- solid black with white feet. My son named her Pepper Salt Feet and we just love her, Sprite does too, although Pepper is a bit of hooligan- which 8 month old Aussies are not?
I know a lot of breeders don’t want strange dogs around their puppies, for disease and safety reasons, though, so that’s a puppy test not everyone can do.
Liz F. says
I am really nowhere near rational enough to comment on this story, and Jim’s injury, since I’ve experienced some overlap in my life. (Long, sad family stories.)
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate the example of returning of a pup who’s not quite right. And hope your perseverance pays off. All the best!
Debbie Jacobs says
If this is the ‘ugly’ one the others must really have been stunners!
Annika says
lol Tricia! All the careful puppy testing and in the end, going with the tried and true Will Method to pick a puppy.
I think he is a adorable personally. If he gets along with his humans and his Will, that’s a really good beginning isn’t it? His herding skills probably can’t be determined until he is older anyway. I hope that some good socialization will counter the fears he has.
Looking forward to finding out his name…something to do with the Ugly Duckling maybe….
Claire says
He’s SO cute! .. I also love the little brown cuffs. It was so good of you to share all these issues. Over 20+ years I have only had a few dogs and its really enlightening to hear other peoples stories about how the dogs interact. I have a one year old Aussie (Fly) from stockdog lines and Fly is proving to me she has SO much potential that I have just now ventured for the first time into the sheep herding world. Love your blog! Claire
Karen says
I think you made a wise decision to return Mick. I also think the new guy is adorable!
Jane says
Tears over the meeting of the two shared by me!! I think he’s adorable and you may not have named him but perhaps Nick since that shows up when I place my cursor over the photos?? 🙂 I love a tri BC…I lean toward the smooths but I do love a tri. And his first outrun will be beautiful (is it a photo thing or is he working Will in the second photo?) and so yes, ‘andsome is as ‘andsome does!
Holly says
thank you thank you thank you for this post. I am a sucker for puppies and this was what I needed today as I had to have my oldest Corgi euthed this morning. What a wonderful pick-me-up.
He is adorable and you will love him.
Rachel H. says
Thank you for sharing this process … better to decide early, than cope endlessly for a decade with a dog that’s not quite right. Ugly pup is no such thing, IMHO — but I love all tris automatically.
Joan says
Awww… I think he’s a handsome little man. He looks a lot like my female BC pup,Bailey. She also scratches the ground after defecating as does my 4 year old male standard collie. Now I’m thinking I should be worried that they do this? My collie is the most mellow, laid back, happy fellow you’d ever meet—in short, PERFECT! Bailey is a sweetheart, too, but still a puppy, and is high-spirited and VERY active.
Lauren says
I’m just a dog owner – the type you trainers typically help (which is how I come to read your books and find your blog), but I just wanted to say new pup is ADORABLE! For what it’s worth! 🙂 Hope this little guy works out!
Janice O. says
I’d honestly love to hear why Will was not introduced to Mick prior to you bringing him home. If Will does indeed have dog-dog aggression issues, I would think it is of the utmost importance for the dogs to meet before buying any dog and bringing that dog home.
Trisha says
To Un named person at City Dog Forum: Ah my, I’m glad your world view was confirmed (“.. never been a fan…”), it’s always gratifying when that happens. But of course, it’s hard on this side to hear such extremely negative comments. I’m not sure what advice of my own I didn’t take, but I’m not sure it matters to the person who commented. This is why many of my colleagues don’t talk about their own dogs, because somehow by being ‘known,’ we are expected by many to be above and beyond any and all problems. But this is exactly why I do, because I think there is great value is being honest, and letting the world know that even the experts have struggles, that we do the best we can with the information we have. My analogy from other field’s is that the children of doctors still get sick… the question is, how is it handled? I am very comfortable with my decision, I think it was the right one, based on good information and a tremendous amount of thought.
And most importantly, I simply can’t let the comment about the breeder go by without comment. Every one of this breeder’s dogs that I know of (that’s a lot) are in great homes in which they both get to work sheep and get treated royally. I actually made the decision I did, when I did, in part because there was a buyer coming, a wonderful potential home, at noon that day, and I wanted them to have Mick there if they wanted him. The breeder is keeping two pups, and I have complete faith that the last one will find the perfect home very soon. They have turned down multiple buyers because they were NOT good enough. As in all of life, judging anyone or anything on one simplistic criteria, without knowing anything more, is rarely a good idea. My own feeling is that there is too much of that going on in the world now… I often wish that there was more tolerance and benevolence in the world . . .
Trisha says
To Janice: I didn’t take Will because I suspected he would be stressed enough in that environment to tense up around any puppy whatsoever. And if he did relax to the last one… was that because he had habituated, or because of the puppy itself? The same concern could well be true of yesterday’s greetings… the little male I have now was the last of the 3 he met. I did take that into account. But after 3 days with Mick, clearly getting more and more comfortable around a puppy, I thought his reaction this time might be more telling, and again, I was especially interested in the pup’s reaction to him: fearful or Oh Boy! It’s another dog! Make sense?
Nicole Wilde says
Congrats, Trisha! And thanks for the honesty. It takes a big person to reveal this type of thing to the general public, some of whom apparently expect you to be omniscient. It’s pretty obvious from your account that you did the right thing, at the right time. It takes strength to make a clear-headed decision in the face of all that puppy love coming atcha (and sorry but that pup is adorable!), and I give you credit. Bottom line, you did the best thing for Will, and that’s your role as his advocate and protector. I couldn’t agree more with your comment that more tolerance and benevolence in the world would go a long way.
Wishing you all the best with your new adorable fur-kid, and looking forward to hearing more about him. 🙂
J. says
Who knew choosing a puppy would be such an emotional rollercoaster? :).
I think you did the absolute right thing, and it took courage to do it!
EmilyS says
oh Trisha, how could you ever call that puppy ugly??? I’m glad Will set you straight. 😉 Here’s hoping for continued dog-puppy happiness in your household. BTW: like all your regular readers, I appreciate your honesty and openness about your experiences and sharing of your thought processes.
Janice O. says
Thank you for your response. Did you feel Will would still tense up yesterday? Did the process of the test not working and needing to return the dog affect your thought process about bringing him to meet another potential dog you were buying? I honestly just wonder what made you change your mind to bring him yesterday, but not previously. Was it simply because the tests didn’t work out and you wanted to ensure the two got along better this time? Hopefully it was maybe a learning experience? I don’t want to pre-judge, thus why I’d love to hear your thoughts.
In your previous comment, you mentioned, “The breeder is keeping two pups, and I have complete faith that the last one will find the perfect home very soon.”
Why does this last one not yet have a home? I work with Cairn breeder, who I feel is very reputable. When she breeds her dogs (only once every two years), but the past two litters, which is all I’ve known her for, she had a list of families chosen before she even bred the dogs. Once the litter is born, all dogs have homes waiting for them. At that point, it’s chosing which dog would go best with what home based on the puppies’ personalities and temperments, and which ones would go to homes who would like to show their dogs.
Janice O. says
I should note – I agree with what others are saying in that it’s good to find the right puppy now instead of waiting several years.
kate says
Wow, I applaud all people who share their life, and how they work through challenges, making the most compassionate, unselfish decisions humanly possible. I think more people need to do that especially when the outcome is as healthy and happy as Will and Pup having a heart connection of their own.
Although these people who knowingly use words that do not come from a healthy place inside themselves…especially when they have no direct connection to a person’s life…to cause harm, I always stop to think about balance. Nothing is ever all bad or all good.
If there’s no compassion in what someone has to say, I always think of the fact that ….they did read your words, or hear you, so atleast a healthy seed is planted in their head for when they are faced with a decision equally as heartbreaking to make….hopefully that seed will have grown and they may even use your experience to pull them through their own tough time.
Learning a little compassion may not be a bad thing for this person…
Trisha says
Janice: Planning on writing more next about the tests, but short version is, ironically, I think the tests worked very well in that the pups are behaving around me and the environment exactly as predicted. The tests are designed to evaluate how a dog behaves in response to an unfamiliar person and to the environment, and so far they have been dead on. (Actually even more than I would have guessed, but it is awfully early!) And the one red flag with Mick was his response to another dog, as I wrote when I summarized the test results. Mick’s fearful response to his circling sister was hard for me to interpret, and I decided there was only one way to find out what it meant–take him home. I’m grateful that the breeder didn’t blink for an instant when I said I was bringing him back.
Janice O. says
That’s great that the breeder didn’t blink when you said you were bringing the dog back. Most contracts state that the dogs must be returned to the breeder.
What I question is why the buyers are able to pick out the dogs. I know I can find several Cairn breeders who agree with me when I say that reputable breeders, who want the best homes for the dogs, match dogs to families. Families do not get to pick out which dog they want. Breeders get to know the personalities and temperments of the dogs and they match the dogs and families based on certain qualities the families are looking for.
You mentioned previously that buyers were coming at noon and you wanted Mick there so they would have a chance to choose him. Reputable breeders would not allow these buyers to randomly choose whoever they wanted. This is why I question the breeder in this situation.
LynnSusan says
Trisha, you are too gracious.
The puppy has a beautiful soft expression —and the negative space around the blazes on his face form a perfect butterfly. That is a symbol of transformation.
I cannot wait to read your future puppy chronicles.
Christine says
I have recently become a fan of yours and a faithful reader of your blog and your books. “Cautious Canine” has helped my cautious canine tremendously and I am very greatful! I completely respect your decision to bring this dog back and I appreciate your honesty in posting about this hard decision. That said, it does worry me that people who are not faithful followers will somehow get the impression that you feel it’s ok to return dogs if they aren’t 100% perfect (whereas I believe you promote addressing behavioral challenges in order to allow our dog(s) to live harmoniously with our families). I understand that you are a special case, that you need a special dog – not only for Willy but also to function as an ambassador for your work, and a working dog on your farm. For any “normal” person Mick would have probably been a great dog (as you stated). I hope that in a future post you will elaborate on whether you would have kept Mick if it was not for Willy AND what you could have specifically done with him training-wise. Please take this as an opportunity to further educate your readers on how to be a forever home for their dog regardless of his or her behavioral challenges.
Bill Grady says
I agree with Christine and have been reading your blog since late last year. Please elaborate on what behaviors you think can be worked on and which behaviors can not be worked on. Could’ve you changed any of Willy’s behaviors with the techniques in your books? I have only read your first book, so I apologize for not knowing your second book. You seem to shrug this off as “one pup, next pup” and that Mick was just another pup who did not work out. I don’t think that is how you mean it, but that is how it comes across. If a reader decides to adopt a puppy from a shelter and dog begins to mount another dog in the home, would you suggest the owners return the dog or work on the behavior? Would your advice change if the dog was older and no longer a puppy? Your tone in this blog is very different than your previous blogs as I am sensing a lack of caring, which does not seem normal for you. Hopefully Mick will find a home soon.
Alexandra says
I think you did the right thing, and I applaud you for sharing it. I wish you many years of joy with your new pup!
One of the hardest things I have ever done was return a cat that I loved to a rescue group. I cried the whole way home. After two months of trying to acclimate my existing cat to the new cat, it became abundantly clear that for her own welfare my first cat needed to stay an only cat. I felt that despite my fast-growing love of the new cat, my primary responsibility was to my first cat, who was growing more stressed (and starting to exhibit health issues). It was a really hard decision, but I believe it was the right one.
Laurie says
Trish, I so admire you for being so honest – please don’t stop. I learn so much from you, and appreciate you putting up with the hurtful comments in order to share the difficult decisions you encounter. You are awesome and are doing a great job! And I love that you almost didn’t take the “ugly puppy”, and then he turned out to be the best one of all for you. Score one for the less attractive dogs of the world. Although it’s really hard to say that given how cute your puppy is – I can’t imagine him being considered ugly in any way – he is just adorable!!
Keli says
Aw, I think he is slam dunk cute!!!
I do believe that “Dunk” would be a good name too! Short and easy to repeat!
Keli
Ravana says
Sorry Puppy 1 didn’t work out, but so glad the breeder was great. The new pup may be a bit off center on the markings and foxy in the face but he is darn cute. Not that I expect it to be taken, but I have to suggest the name Sir Walter Raleigh because I think the pup looks just like him!
Denise says
Trisha, your puppy posts have been fascinating and incredibly helpful. I have a dog who has many of Will’s issues and for whom I would very much like to find a suitable companion. He has been lonely since my elderly Keeshond died nearly two years ago but I’ve been terrified of choosing poorly and creating a nightmare for all of us. Unfortunately, I’m not in a position to bring home a puppy but hope to glean enough guidance from your thinking to eventually help me choose an adolescent or adult who would be suitable. Such decisions are never easy so I really REALLY appreciate your honesty and generosity in describing your thought process and experiences as you worked through everything. Thank you! And good luck to you, Will and your cute-as-a-button new pup. Maybe you should name him Cutie Pie! 🙂 And good luck to Jim too – hope the surgery goes well! Hurts just to think about it…
Darin says
Wow – sure hope some of these folks don’t hurt themselves when they fall off their pedestals.
I apparently read a different post than some of the others. Returning an animal is not an easy thing. I applaud your courage and hope the negativity you’ve received will not deter you from posts like this in the future, although I could certainly understand if it did. People can be harsh.
I think the new guy is cute as can be and I can’t wait to hear more about him :).
D~
Pamela Picard says
That seems to have worked exactly as it should. Right brain – left brain, two steps forward, one step back. I am impressed that you screwed up the courage to admit a mistake. Life’s too short for our dogs to fight with Mother Nature. Give a hug to Redux. Dux for short. *wink*
Trisha says
To Bill & Christine: I will elaborate more soon about what behaviors are most likely to be ‘changeable’ and what not, great questions. (And the answer is exactly why I returned the first pup, being dog oriented or not is one of the things I don’t think you can change much.
And to all:I changed the title of the post, because, even before Bill’s comment came in I realized it sounded
cavalier, and as should be clear, there was absolutely nothing cavalier about this decision. Chalk it up to 4 hours sleep 4 nights in a row.
One more quick comment to Bill: Oh my, yes I have used what I write about on Will, and I am thrilled with the result. I am so proud of him as an individual I could bust… he let the puppy crawl all over him in the house, and that is huge. For those of you who are new to the blog: Will came, (yup, as a pup) with the worst dog-dog aggression potential of any pup I’ve ever seen and that turned out to be absolutely predictive. You might ask why I kept him?! I did because he seemed so pathologically aggressive that I was afraid he’d badly hurt another dog and/or go crazy (he was partway there already) and be euthanized.) I worked for 3 years on it, on his sound sensitivity that was so extreme he couldn’t be socialized, on his attack of an adult female over food when he was 9 weeks old, on the beginnings of fear-based aggression to unfamiliar men as an adolescent, on his stalking the cat (going great by the way!), on his projectile diarrhea, his injured shoulder, etc etc etc. Everyone who meets Will now thinks he is the most wonderful, sweet, well-behaved dog imaginable, and often don’t believe me about all the problems he had. Is he perfect? No, but then, he’s great, and I love him like life itself. My next book is going to be about how I used everything I’ve learned in 23 + years to help him. Going to start writing it in a few weeks!
Felina says
I don’t know much if anything about you. But I think you did the correct thing. The little guy was not a good fit. AND he will find a good home.
One thing though, how on earth could you call that little darlin’ “ugly”????? He’s such a gorgeous little critter, with an devilish glint in his eye 🙂 And I love the name “Dunk” – priceless!
Veronique Vanderbeke says
I just wanted to comment on Janice O. posts about reputable breeders. I think you are right about many points when it comes to reputable breeders, but that you are a little bit too rigid in your view. My corgi girl comes from a show breeder, who only breeds about one litter a year and does all the genetic tests required for corgis. When my husband and I visited her to pick-out our girl (we already had a boy and wanted a girl) she had only two dogs reserved: one for another show breeder and one for herself. This means she still had 4 dogs (2 boys and 2 girls) that had no homes and yes, we were allowed to choose our own dog. The breeder obviously had some questions about our background, but since we already had a corgi (and knew what we were getting into) and I am in the dog business, she really didn’t have too many concerns.
I guess it’s great if as a breeder you already have families and homes for your puppies before they are born. I also think that in reality a lot of very reputable breeders don’t. And as people are all individuals, so are breeders, which means they all will have their own methods of deciding which dog goes to which home.
Just my view. 🙂
Ann W in PA says
Oh Trisha, bless you for setting such a good example of grace under fire, and for enduring that fire so that the rest of us might benefit from your experiences.
I try to be open-minded, but I can’t help but chuckle at some of the criticism: “cavalier” and “not enough research” after we readers have been allowed to accompany you on this journey, which obviously started long before the loss of Lassie, and has been so detailed it makes me want to take notes. That somehow little Mick has been done a disservice by spending a day with Patricia McConnell. That someone should deny a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist the ability to pick out their own puppy, or to take him home for an evening to meet the other family dog with the understanding that if it wasn’t a great match it would be a temporary stay and good socialization.
I am also sure that this breeder’s choices are suited toward the very best in match-making, and that any of those pups will have multiple homes just salivating for a fine stockdog whether now or in a few months when their herding instinct can be better tested. It’s a far cry from the unjust comparison of returning a dog to a shelter, or giving up on a “problem dog” – when the day spent in the McConnell home was thankfully able to be a part of the matchmaking process, and didn’t keep little Mick from his journey toward the family he was meant to have.
I am so glad for you and for Will that it happened as it did – sometimes the right dogs just wind their way into our homes in ways we wouldn’t have predicted, and important clues reveal themselves to us at the right moment, if only our eyes are open to see them, and our minds and hearts can cooperate to make a good decision.
Sara says
It is hard for me to fathom that a responsible breeder would not be able to accurately tell you what to expect behaviorally with each puppy…I can look at mine at 12 weeks, which is the soonest now I would let them go after seeing developing behaviors that have occurred in the past weeks, and I can tell someone exactly who is compatible with what type of dog. Bring in any test you want and how could you possibly tell compatibility on your own? But I know their entire family and I see who acts like who so clearly and I can so easily tell someone that this one is feisty and will want to be in charge, and this one waits to see what the other dog does first, and this one is off exploring the world, and this one is going to have a problem with my other bitch and then I train around all of that. For the rest of you, a breeder should clearly be giving you this kind of information. I look right now at Luge. He will be a howler and whiner. Can that be trained better? Sure. Can it be eliminated? No. Whoever gets him has to be ready for a little vocalizing. And Biscuit must go straight to puppy class and continue obedience. He will be neutered as soon as the growth plates close or he will be a little growly. Will he attempt humping? More than likely. But hopefully by then, he will trained so well that redirecting will be a piece of cake. These are comments your breeders should be making. Along with, watch that left front foot for a turn out, check his spleen starting at age seven, etc.
Melinda says
Just wanted to say how much I appreciate your being honest and sharing you own experiences. Reading your blog and books has been so helpful to me and I look forward to hearing about things you think can and can’t be changed as I am soon going to look for a companion for my 5 year old german shepherd. I am still trying to decide if I should get a puppy (I have always gotten GSD’s from reputable breeders) or if I should try to adopt.
Anyway, I have learned that things are not always black and white no matter the situation or expertise and I thank you for sharing so openly.
Teri says
Thank you for your honesty and willingness to share your life with us. I am so sorry you had to return the first pup I’m sure that must have been a horid experience but I agree that we need to respect the animals we have when bringing a new family member home. Congrats on the new pup, he looks at home already.
Can I venture a guess why the breeder allowed the buyers to purchase? These are working dogs as well as pets so the buyers are going to have much better knowledge and different requirements then the average owner. If this was a litter of primarily “pet dogs” then having the breeder choose for you makes much more sense.
and now I am already excited about the prospect of a new book!!!
s says
Your honesty is inspiring, especially as someone who struggles at times on decisions to keep our rescues due to some things I can’t train them out of or or address (since it occurs when I’m NOT home and so far can manage but can’t manage it well enough to eliminate – and these behaviors I feel were not provided by the rescue ie they didn’t fully disclose in good faith). I think your honesty shows that science isn’t foolproof, and dog experts don’t always have all the answers – but they can make decisions and take actions with the knowledge they do have.
Please keep sharing with those of us who enjoy your honesty and learn from all that you do share.
Good luck with pup #2 – I hope he and Will truly do become best buds.
Mihaela says
Trisha, thank you so much for sharing all of your thought process and struggles. As opposed to some of the negative comments posted by some, I think it is actually beneficial and instructional to see what kind of thought process should be involved when you make such an important decision (i.e. adopting the right dog into your family for “the long haul”). I think it is even more instructional when it comes from a person with your knowledge and experience in dog behavior and dog-human relations. Not everybody in this world runs a dog rescue operation, and dogs should be able to fit in all kinds of families and life situations (as dog rescue people should know better than anyone). While I have a lot of respect and admiration for those who dedicate a lot of their lives to finding shelter and forever homes for dogs, here’s what I think about their comment posted in this particular forum: (muddy) water under the bridge!
JJ says
I echo all the previous comments thanking you for sharing your story. In one of your books (don’t remember which one), you clearly have a whole section dedicated toward encouraging people to do what is best for the dog(s), even if that means re-homing. In this case, you knew for a fact Mick would end up in a great home. It’s not like you dropped him off at the local kill-shelter. There is no guilt here at all that I can see. Just a difficult decision since you had formed an attachment to Mick (and difficult since you are such a public figure).
I just don’t get where people are coming from who think there is anything wrong with this decision at all. Your home would not be the best for Mick nor for Will who has to be your first priority. Mick is perfectly fine. Will has the best chance of being happy in the future. It’s a no-brainer and an great example to the world of responsible behavior.
JJ says
I have to comment on the “ugly duckling” part of the story too.
When I first saw a picture of my dog in the shelter, I thought, “That’s the ugliest Dane I have ever seen.” Really. His head looked way too big for his body (to me). I called it a mutant head. Since Duke had not had proper nutrition, I had assumed he just never grew into his head. I didn’t connect on an aesthetic level to the dog at all. But I had been searching Petfinder.com every day for 6 months for any Dane I could adopt. I had to at least check him out. After a lottery drawing where I won Duke, I took him home and still thought he was very ugly.
But he was all mine. And I grew to love him. Over the following months and years, all I have heard volunteered from other people (who knew nothing of my opinion) was how very striking or beautiful they thought Duke was. In a year, all I saw when I looked at Duke was a gorgeous dog. I no longer see an ugly dog. I actually think he is beautiful. I can love something and still think it is ugly. In this case, I honestly think Duke is beautiful now. Isn’t that weird?
I can say that your pup looks beautiful to me. I love his markings. I hope everything works out for your family. (Including that Jim’s recovery goes well.)
Jude says
Bravest thing you’ve done is share the process with everyone. Hey.. and it’s not like you pinned a note on him saying he’s psycho, sent him back with a one-way ticket to Russia! 🙂
Always learning,
Always humbled
Jude
Pike says
Awww… he is so cute and Willy looks very happy, too.
I am very glad that things worked out for the best and – like most others here – grateful that you share your dog struggles with us as well and not just the “safe” neutral stuff. I tend to learn much more from mistakes (mine and others) than from hearing about what works wonderfully for others.
Congratulations to puppyhood!
vin chiu says
This post is the essence of the reason I love your blog. TRUTH! Having been faced recently with a similar dilemma, I chose to go the other way and keep puppy mostly as a learning experience, partially due to the <> factor and partially due to her very pronounced working ability. The breeder and I discussed in depth possible less than desirable outcomes for this pup along with some of her strong points. Our agreement to go through with the change of ownership was a shot in failing light resulting from total honesty and admitted risk factors. Upon meeting her at the airport I assessed her little attitude and thus far my wary predictions about her are coming to fruition and I hope it is not related to some subconscious behavior shaping on my part. I don’t think so. I’ve had pups in my life but never a difficult one such as little Malinois Tilly to raise so this has certainly fulfilled the first aspect of the trifecta. I do not regret the decision however difficult it makes life as I have learned quite a bit these 9 months. Although a sweet pup would have been plenty nice as well. I’ll revisit this thought process in 12 months and see where we stand.
Lynn says
Trisha:
I really enjoy your books and your blogs – and I am tremendously impressed by your courage and honesty in writing about the tough decision to return Mick. Whenever you have a multi-dog household, especially if one dog has “issues”, the chemistry of how they interact is so important. You clearly did everything you could to stack the deck in your favor, but often it comes down to subtle nuances. Any personality has multiple components, and it just takes one to be misaligned to end up with a poor fit overall. Temperament testing can reduce the risk of a mismatch, but it can’t eliminate it entirely. If it always worked perfectly, we’d all choose our spouses, and our kids’ friends, based on online surveys.
City Data Forum’s comment was mean-spirited, as well as unfair. (If I could choose to meet you vs the person who wrote this… no contest!). Let’s be honest: if I were a breeder of well-bred Border collies (disclaimer: I’m not), I’d be honored to sell a pup to you. Not only would I know that I’d find an owner prepared to invest tremendous effort (and talents!) into bringing out the best in my dog, but he’d also get a chance to work sheep. I’d be interested in hearing your “take” on the litter’s temperaments, see whether it coincided with my own. So, yeah, I might offer you first pick, just on the basis of what I might gain from it.
Mick may well end up as a perfect dog for a one-dog family. Or he may fit in extremely well with a confident, but easy-going, canine “sibling”. Although I argued in a comment to your last post that sometimes people have to abandon a vision of choosing the “best” pup based on the results of temperament testing in favor of going with a breeder’s recommendation, no one can expect a breeder to make the perfect call in the sort of situation in which you found yourself. They may be able to assess their own pups’ personalities, but it takes two to tango. I’d never expect any breeder to read my own dog’s personality accurately on short acquaintance.
You improved Mick’s chances of finding a great family home by returning him right away, difficult as that decision was for you. It’s possible he might have worked out fine, and that he and Will just needed some time to work things out, but I think you did the prudent thing for both Will and Mick by moving swiftly. By getting a chance to meet more pups, the breeder and prospective owner alike improved their chances of identifying the best fit. Kudos to you!
And to the person (Janice O.) who wondered what might happen to an unsold pup: in my experience, top breeders of Border collies do very occasionally end up with an unsold pup. They typically train it to work stock (or to get rid of nuisance geese). Many people would prefer to purchase a started/trained dog (for a higher price) than a puppy. Believe me, these dogs don’t end up in a shelter. If one of this sort of breeder’s pups turns out not to have an interest in working stock, then the breeder will take it back until they can place it in a pet home. That’s one of the hallmarks of a reputable breeder: a lifetime buyback provision on the contract.
(And I think the new pup is GORGEOUS! Just looking at that shot with him and Will playing together is enough to warm anyone’s heart).
Lisa says
Trisha, thank you for sharing this. I had to take a puppy back some months ago and have been struggling with that decision since. That such an accomplished trainer has faced a similar quandary and made the same decision helps with the months of doubt that I’ve had over my decision.
In the end I ended up adopting my foster, and he has been a blessing to my family. The first puppy found a more appropriate home one day after being returned.
But it has still been something that I have felt bad about, and this post has helped with my personal battle a lot.
Thank you.
Christine says
After re-reading my own comment above I realize that my last sentence did not come out properly…and in fact may have seemed a bit judgmental. Not my intent. “Please take this as an opportunity to further educate your readers on how to be a forever home for their dog regardless of his or her behavioral challenges.” Should have read: Please take this as an opportunity to futher educate your readers on how to know what is best for their dog. After reading your blog for a while now (and your books) I know that you have and will continue to be a great source of information.
Best of luck to you and your new (adorable) family member! I look forward to your upcoming puppy posts!!
Michelle says
Too ugly? You must have a screw loose. 😉 (I’m just kidding, really!). He’s gorgeous! Those ears are way too adorable and I can’t wait to see what they do as he grows up. My dog’s just a “plain” black dog and I think she’s gorgeous, so I’m glad to see this little guy grew on you.
And shame on the unnamed person for not recognizing that (a) you are human just like the rest of us and (b) you made the right decision for your family. The puppy will be adopted by someone who loves him and you’ve found the right one for you and for Will! I can understand not taking Will the first time around so maybe the lesson learned is “check the pups out, make a preliminary decision, then bring the older dog to meet him/her”? That’s the idea I’m taking home from it at least. I hope to adopt another dog someday, but my dog has such a specific play style and does poorly with others (she can’t handle dogs who want to jump on her and wrestle) that I’m going to have to be very careful about who I choose for fear she’ll end up happy.
Good for YOU for realizing that both Will and Mick might be unhappy together and bringing home the pup who clicked so well with him. I hope Mick is happy with the people who choose him. I bet THEY’LL be happy you brought him back so quickly!
Mary says
Trisha,
After putting in so much time an effort to rehabilitate Will, I think that you deserve a more stable dog this time around. Both for you and for Will, so that Will doesn’t regress and you don’t get burned out. As someone who owns and loves two dogs with “issues”, I wouldn’t part with them for the world but I sure as heck want to avoid getting another dog/pup with behavior problems. I need a break from that. I want my next dog to be much as you outlined above with the exception of not needing a dog that is capable of managing sheep. All of the dogs that I had in the past were “bomb proof” go-anywhere do-anything dogs. I miss that, and in the future will return a dog/pup that shows evidence of serious behavior problems right away so that I don’t get so emotionally entangled that it becomes impossible to give the dog/pup back. I think you did the right thing, and your new pup is gorgeous. He looks like a dog I had long ago whose name was Bryn (pronounced Brinn).
Taryn says
As they say: Never judge a book by it’s cover! I had the same trouble when I got my last corgi pup. His looks weren’t what I was looking for in a classic Cardigan. He had no white blaze as is fairly characteristic in the breed. He had tested well for what I wanted (an agility dog), was people friendly, wanted to work, but he just didn’t measure up for looks in my mind’s eye. But I took the plunge anyway, and now that he’s mine, I think his all black face makes him that much more unique and attractive! He’s definitely not without a few issues, but what dog is perfect?
Congrats on your pup! I look forward to seeing him grow up on your blog!
Jane says
We had an adopted black-lab mix puppy who was fear-aggressive. He quickly grew to over 50 lbs. After getting into two fights with our 12 year old female golden retriever, we were ready to rehome him. I found a book in the library that gave training strategies to stop the first signs of aggression and redirect the energy. We also went to dog obedience classes for 10 weeks. He became more confident and playful with other dogs. He now goes to dog obedience classes to help calm the newcomers because he is so sweet and friendly. You just never know!
Shaya says
He’s so cute! I think he’s cuter than Mick, with his brown markings. And thank you so much for sharing your experience personably.
I don’t agree with the comments about it being irresponsible to return a puppy early on. I think it is more important to choose a puppy that is more likely to work well than to stick it out and possibly cause stress for everyone in the household. In a sense, returning a puppy so soon is just extending the puppy picking time.
Laurel says
You know, one of the many differences between adopting a shelter dog and buying from a breeder is what happens if you have concerns about the pup’s present or future fit in your home. I’m not someone who thinks that if you take a dog, you absolutely must keep it: you have a major responsibility to any animal you agree to care for, but sometimes that responsibility is best met by finding someone else to take care of the dog. If you adopt a shelter dog, returning it to the shelter might be a real violation of that responsibility. The dog often returns to an unpleasant environment without enough care or personal attention, and may be at risk for euthanasia.
Returning a dog to a responsible breeder is different. The dog goes back to people it knows, who will be very kind to it; a young pup will almost certainly end up with a lovely home. As far as it knows, it just went on an interesting jaunt to meet some new people. In that case, returning a dog about whom you have concerns – especially when you have a dog with a tricky temperament already, and want to maximize your chances of having a dog who is a good fit for your specific situation – isn’t a bad thing to do. And returning the dog right away, so it’s available for another person who might be a better fit, is probably more responsible than waiting a week.
This goes double for a pup who doesn’t have any intrinsic problems, and is just the wrong fit for that specific home. Not being that excited about other dogs, or being relatively dominant and self-confident, isn’t a problem per se. It’s just not right for every situation.
Eric Goebelbecker says
We’re very lucky to have you and your willingness to be honest and upfront about the decisions you make and how you make them. Thank you!
Heidi Meinzer says
He’s absolutely adorable! What a great post, just as I ponder what kind of dog/puppy would be great for my skittish Shepherd/Malinois rescue, Sophie. We just lost our beloved Golden, Raoul, the end of March. He was such a wonderful influence on Sophie — as a typical Golden, he just loved people, dogs, and life itself. I worry that she has had far too much access to everything, especially me, since Raoul is gone. I have been leaning towards a puppy, and a purebred from a solid breeder, to have all the more chance of getting a dog that will help Sophie along by embracing the world, other dogs and people openly. I love that Will seemed so accepting of this new little guy right off the bat!
Rusty says
Awesome story & pics. Sometimes the right decision is not the easiest decision. I love the tan spots on his legs just above his paws. In the second picture he’s got that Border Collie stalk down already.
Menopausalentrepreneur says
Trisha, congratulations on your ultimate choice. Or should I say Will’s choice?! I applaud your honesty and putting yourself out there so that others can learn. None of us can say that we’ve learned it all when it comes to our interactions with animals. That’s what I love the most about our work with dogs! Every one is a new experience. And as the “mom” of a very reactive Golden Retriever, I know exactly where you are coming from with Will. It *must* be the right dog. So what’s the new pup’s name? He has very soft, intelligent eyes.
Academic2 says
Squeeeee! What a darling puppy. Congratulations on the new one and thank you for letting us into your thinking process on Mick.
Lyn says
I too am just a non-trainer, non-professional dog lover. Last year I was looking for a puppy to train as my next service dog; I thought I had found him, and I brought him home. He immediately started food guarding (at 12 weeks). I called experts, I searched my heart, I beat my head against the wall, and then I called the breeder and brought him back. A week later I got the perfect puppy, one who did meet my requirement of being “bombproof” (yes, I used that word, and for me that criterion was a nonnegotiable). I got him from a breeder who specifically breeds for the temperament I sought, who knows her dogs incredibly well, and who understood what I needed. I also got lucky.
(Sadly, we were not lucky in terms of the incumbent and the new dog forging a good relationship, but that is a different story.)
I can’t tell you how much it meant to me to read that even you had to bring home a pup to discover glitches that were sufficiently serious that you decided it would be better not to take the risk of keeping him. I’ve made good use of your books over the years, and I love following your blog, but this particular story went straight to my heart. Keep writing, and know that there are many of us out here listening and appreciating.
Lyn
Cora says
As for the comments from city data forum, if he “never thought Patricia McConnell was much of an expert anyway,” then why is he following your blog? I never understood those who sling salacious comments at complete strangers–doesn’t he know you’re supposed to save stuff like that for your family? (wink, wink, LOL!) Hmmm, I think I may be experiencing a little blog-blog aggression…maybe someone should make a clicking sound and drop a tasty treat from the sky…
I think that returning the puppy who wasn’t a good fit with your existing dog so that he could find a relaxed and happy home with someone else is the best, most responsible decision for everyone involved, including the breeder who undoubtedly wants all of her puppies to be in ideal homes. Kudos to your frontal lobe!! That’s incredibly difficult in the face of all that puppy-ness.
Speaking of puppy-ness, I think pup #2 is stunningly adorable; I can’t even fathom the concept of an ugly puppy. It’s unimaginable in the same way as “short, fat supermodel.” Although I’m a stranger to you (though I feel like we’re friends since I’ve read your books and blog), I’ll throw my hat into the ring on the name game. Your reference to him as being unnamed reminded me of the Harry Potter book series, where the evil villain is referred to as “He who must not be named.” And though “Voldemort” seems like a terrible name for a puppy (or anyone except an evil villain), I thought “Riddle” (the real last name of the character who later became Voldemort) would be perfect. It also suits him as being the unexpected answer to a tricky question. Plus, I like how it rolls off the tongue.
mungobrick says
I’ll join the chorus – I know how hard returning him was, but you were absolutely right to do so, given your concern for Will. After all you’ve gone through with Will, getting another dog that might mess him up would be a dreadful experience. My fearful dog is my one-in-a-lifetime dog, but she would not be the choice of someone who, as you say, needs to take a dog everywhere.
(I missed the part in the rule book that says that someone who works with and writes about dogs isn’t allowed to return a puppy that won’t fit in her family. Ridiculous.)
I think your new little one is just as cute as Mick, but I have puppy blindness anyway. FWIW, the last dog we had (rescue from an aboriginal reserve) I thought was adorable as a puppy – my husband said “that is going to be one peculiar looking dog”. He had to spend the next 12 years eating his words, LOL!
Elizabeth
Don says
Congratulations for the puppy, and kudos for getting Will’s blessing!
Carolyn in Belize says
Well, I think he is absolutely beautiful, such an expressive little face. So glad he seems to be a good fit for Will and the rest of the family!
Liz M. says
Congratulations!!! He looks absolutely perfect! Hearing how he and Will seemed to just know each other and be instantly comfortable was heartwarming. Just looking at those soft sweet eyes of his has me in an oxytocin haze! Enjoy every bit of him! You deserve all the joys that come from snuggling such a sweet puppy!
Amy says
Thank you, Trisha, for continuing to be an excellent role model to us dog lovers. I support your decision and I can’t imagine the mixed ball of emotions that you must be experiencing.
As others have said, the goodness of fit is a crucial aspect to healthy family functioning. It would have been a huge disservice to Will and all he’s worked for, had Mick stayed.
Congratulations on your new addition. I look forward to your puppyhood and Will plus puppy stories.
deborah ryan says
Tricia,
Thankyou for your honesty and forthrightness and sharing with us, allowing us to be able to learn from your experiences. I do think you made the best decision possible for all concerned, and I’m sure Mick will benefit from his sleep-over at auntie Tricia’s.
The new guy is absolutley adorable! And Will looks so happy and relaxed – I’m glad he got to have a paw in picking out his new friend, may you all have many many happy years together.
As far as the “nay-sayers”, some folks just can’t help being rude and snarky, sad really because in being so they limit their own potential for learning and new experiences.
again Thank You for being Human, and inviting us along for the ride.
ABandMM says
Trisha, my best wishes to Jim as he undergoes surgery and the PT (pain/torture, physical therapy) that goes with the recovery process.
What a heart-wrenching decision regarding Mick. At the shelter I volunteer at, we encourage people to do a “meet and greet” with their current dogs and the one that they are considering adopting just to see if there are any potential conflicts. It isn’t a guarantee that there won’t be minor issues to work through, but hopefully it will catch the serious “NO, these two dogs do not get along” problems.
The new puppy is adorable, and hopefully it will be a good match since Willie got to pick his new sibling.
I respect your decision to return the puppy. You only had it for a few days and concerns were raised and the behaviors you observed in the puppy would not have been evident when you first met the puppy. I think that the “matchmaking” that goes into finding a puppy the perfect human family is very interesting, but having additional dog(s) to factor into the match must be really difficult. Does the breeder know Willie and understand his behavioral quirks? What was his/her reaction to the how Mick interacted with Willie?
Also, can you elaborate on why the scratching after defecation worried you? And what is the difference between a puppy doing that and an adult dog? Thanks.
Kate says
He’s an adorable little fellow! I love his little brown patches. I’m glad he and Will seem to be a good match so far!
Scott says
I can see what you mean about the new pup; my first reaction wasn’t “aww, how cute” because he is rather plain looking. My first two dogs’ appearance didn’t immediately appeal to me, but since temperament was most important in both cases, I had no reservations. Now of course, I find them super adorable!
This post has ignited a passionate response in some folks. I think it helps to illustrate the fact that there ARE acceptable reasons to return a dog/puppy, even when you’ve done your homework and haven’t rushed into it. The majority of returns may not be for those reasons, but we can’t paint every situation with one all-inclusive brush and say that any return is irresponsible.
It also comforts those of us who aren’t applied animal behaviorists to know that it is not just the uneducated who make “mistakes” or have to make those difficult decisions. Ultimately, your decision is what you felt was best for both Mick and Will, and they will both be better for it.
sue says
Tricia, I think you’re wonderful, appreciate your honesty and the sharing of your thought process. I’ve learned so much from your books and even attended a presentation you gave at the Des Moines Animal Rescue League. It was great!
While your puppy is cute, I understand ‘too ugly to take home’. Twenty years ago I took home what was said to be a border collie puppy – the last one available. I only took her because at the time I didn’t know how to say no. I believe she was part border collie and part English setter. She had a small tri-colored bc head and a large long lanky setter body, white with small black spots. Head and body did not go together at all but she turned out to be the smartest most loyal dog and I still miss her.
I also understand the heartbreak of rehoming. Two years ago, I had to decide between a large (80 lbs), older, black lab mix (that’s 3 stikes against a dog in a shelter) that I’d had for several years and a very sick, nervous, high strung, afraid of people and everything else, puppy that was going to cost me lots of money in vet bills and frustration in daily life. The older dog seemed to love the puppy until she was 6 mos old and playing rough. The older dog was so unhappy she wouldn’t come in the house if the puppy was inside or go outside if the puppy was outside. When the older dog and I were outside alone, the second I turned my back on her she would climb over my fence and run down the road. That was a pretty direct hint that she was unhappy. In every other way, the older dog was very well trained, would stop chasing a squirrel and turn on a dime to come when called and heel off leash, just 2 of her very good traits. I was sure the puppy stood much less of a chance of a permanent home because of her many problems.
There were several other not quite as big andyounger black dogs at the ARL that had been there for a month or more but mine was adopted in less than 7 days. Before taking her there, I’d wrtten up everything I knew about her, her likes (people and calm dogs, would make good therapy dog etc) and dislikes (rough playing puppies!) and everything she knew for prospective owners. I’m sure that helped her find a home quickly and I feel she deserved the chance to find a home where she could be happy rather than remaining with me where I knew should would not be (and unsafe- running down the road). I know the ARL here works hard to find good homes for their dogs. I know because I know people who work there and volunteer there myself.
Oh, my. This has gotten long. Any way, thank you for sharing, thank you for your honesty and thank you for all the books and information that have helped me be a much more informed (and better) dog owner just when I needed it for my afraid of everything (including me, for months) puppy, who is now doing quite well. I’m quite sure you’ve helped and are appreciated by many more people than there are that think, how was it stated, you ‘aren’t so smart after all’.
MJ says
New reader, first post. Thanks much for the open, honest nature of your sharing. That’s such a rarity. I really noticed it in your books, “The Other End of the Leash”, and “For the Love of a Dog,” but it shines here in your website, just to get to know more of the ins and outs of you, your relationships with your dogs, your choices and processes that you take time to explain in some detail, your farm, the vistas and bits of nature that you photo for us and talk openly about. Thanks so much for all of that. It’s certainly not too much to say that they are are stories that span life, and death. I consider your website a real prize.
Mick was cute, so is lil’ no name. Of course, as you say in your books, just about everybody’s a sucker for a puppy. That’s why they can get away with so much. And always such little razor sharp teeth.
Also really liked the DVD of your “Both Ends of the Leash” seminar. Learning tons, really appreciating your efforts. Again, thanks. —MJ
Sami says
Gotta say I’m impressed at your honest answers to City-Data Forum.
I too was thinking give it more time, but your explanation made a lot of sense. Good luck with Ducky.
Liza Lundell says
Congratulations on your new puppy! When I got mine (just in Feb! he’s still new!) I asked the breeder to choose. She knows me, and knows my dogs; all I specified was it had to be male since I have a fairly alpha bitch and didn’t want to live with bitch wars. Professor has turned out to be, well, almost perfect. And Auntie Amelia has turned out to be a fine puppy raiser. I hope Will learns these skills, too.
And bravo for you, for having the guts to return the puppy when he didn’t work well with Will, and for daring to talk about the decision.
Debra says
What a hard post you had to make and kudos to you for your decision. I got my second aussie when my first one was 13 years old, and unfortunately got him from champion herding stock when I was definitely a “pet home” at best. I didn’t understand what that meant and he was one tough agressive puppy with an idiot owner who didn’t understand his needs. He herded and nipped me, my old dog, and my two young sons. I spent 6 months putting my old dog through more than he should have had to go through. Finally the breeder and I agreed he needed to go back and he ended up being her dog and so much happier on 10 acres with sheep and geese to work. It took me 5 years and the death of my old dog before I got over my guilt and sadness and trusted myself to get a new puppy. I still have his pictures and wish I could have been a better home for him. Thank you for sharing your story. And I did take my 2 year old dog when I got my new puppy two years ago. He touched noses with him in through his crate the whole six hour drive home. They still do that when we go on walks and something exciting happens – just a quick touch of noses like a secret between them.
Ruth T says
Trisha, I want to thank you for your wonderful blog. I feel like I’ve learned a lot from you and your respondents. I also hope that some responses are not too hurtful, some folks don’t seem to know the difference between hateful spewing and constructive criticism. Obviously, this has been a trying time for you, I’m glad you (and Will) seem to have gotten a real winner :).
Nancy says
Love the new puppy, love reading the process of choosing (especially because I’ve only adopted and never bought a puppy but let’s face it, you have to choose smart when you adopt too) a new family member. Very helpful to read about this process.
So very hard to not mix heart and head. It really is. My head starts rationlizing so it can follow my heart. Wah. Anyway, great to read about how this is coming along for you (and believe me, I’m nowhere near where you are when it comes to do behavior).
Thanks and congratulations. Let us know when you’re feeling rested. 🙂
Joanna Kimball says
I am a breeder. I want the puppy back.
I wish more breeders were commenting on this thread, but I think the opinion would be unanimous. We do NOT want people muddling through, struggling to overcome issues, forgiving bad behavior, or any other variation on a miserable experience.
What I went to hear from new owners is that the sun rises and sets over this puppy, that they can’t imagine how life was before he arrived, that she’s seduced everyone in the neighborhood, that he’s the best working puppy ever, that she is already hitting heel position. We want people THRILLED.
If they are not, if there are issues showing up, the sooner the puppy can come back the better. There’s no blame – least of all on the puppy! – just a desire to get the puppy in the RIGHT home as quickly as possible, before the negative stuff the owner is seeing moves from “poor match” to “ingrained problem.”
I do testing on all my puppies, and I feel that I know them very, very well, but testing and even sleeping beside the box for a month can only reveal so much. What I am seeing is the way they react to ME, or the way they react to my tester, or a combination of factors that doesn’t and couldn’t replicate their experience in a new home with different owners. Perhaps what in my living room is a great tug drive is far too much in a different home. Perhaps what my tester saw as fabulous retrieving has translated into destructiveness. Or, conversely, what I saw as sweetness is spookiness when the set of stressors is totally different.
There is absolutely no way to foolproof a placement. I don’t care how carefully you do it, whether the kids come along, whether the other dogs visit, whether you swing crystals over the puppy’s head; there is no substitute for getting the puppy home and letting a few days go by. Most of the time the impressions you had of them in the box and the impressions the tester(s) had of them at seven weeks are pretty good, but there are going to be times when the puppy and new family are very clearly chalk and cheese. And when that happens, the faster they give it back to you the better for absolutely everyone.
Joanna Kimball, Cardigan Welsh Corgis and Danes
PS: One of the most destructive things we can do to each other is have rules like “All good breeders have puppies sold before they are born.” Good (or bad!) breeding is in no way defined by that year’s market conditions or whether half your waiting list dropped out unexpectedly. What makes you responsible is your commitment to the puppy from birth to death, not the age at which it leaves your home or the number of people who raised their hand for it.
Melissa says
I’m curious to know why adult behaviours in a young pup are a red flag? Two days after I got my last puppy the little tyke was standing next to me and challenged my older (and much bigger) dog as he came towards us. I was fascinated and bewildered that a 9 week old puppy would growl and rush at an adult dog. No food or toys present. Just me and the other dog. He only went about three paces and my older dog (bless him, he is a saint) completely and utterly ignored it, so I did too. The puppy’s little strut afterwards made me think that whatever he had set out to achieve in that move he felt he had achieved. He never did it again. He was also doing very convincing watchdog barks and rushing out to “see off” whatever had triggered them when he was about 12 weeks old, and that is something that didn’t go away. It took my older dog about 7 or 8 months to ever give a warning bark, if I remember correctly. And it was sporadic until he was over a year old.
Pamela says
I share in the thanks for your honesty in your post. The most valuable reading I’ve done about dogs has been when the “expert” shares their trials and tribulations. It’s just the reminder we all need that dogs are not automatons–“make this motion and he’ll sit; this motion and he’ll lie down.” Each dog has his own character.
When we brought Honey home, our breeder gave us the results of the puppy temperament testing and allowed us to choose between two unclaimed pups. She strongly suggested we take the more mellow dog since we didn’t have children or other dogs at home.
I had the luxury of knowing that I could take either dog without any huge difficulty and that we’d be able to make everything work out ok. That luxury came from not having a job for my dog besides being my companion and not having other people and dogs in the house I had to worry about.
You have a specific need for your pup to fulfill as a working dog on a sheep farm as well as a companion to your family. Just like service dog organizations don’t accept every dog into their program, people who work seriously with dogs should be just as serious in their selection.
I think you made a brave decision.
BTW, my breeder’s suggestion was spot on. Honey ended up being just the right dog for us.
Emily says
Congrats on the new addition & thanks for sharing this. Great example of a highly reputable breeder, and the importance of knowing the resident dogs and humans are comfortable with a new addition. I don’t see a single thing wrong with how you went about this process. I foster rescue dogs, and my most basic requirement is that my resident dogs are ok with the new foster. There’s always an acclimation period, but certain behaviors would be unacceptable to me as well. So I completely empathize with Will. I also have had a leash reactive dog, and I think that changes your perspective on things a bit. He was a steep learning curve for me and before he came along, I don’t think I could have truly sympathized with some of the issues their people face!
I think rescuers are incredibly wonderful & passionate people, but sometimes I think we can also lose a little perspective because of that passion. If everyone was as careful about selecting breeders as Trisha, rather than buying from pet stores (for example), we might not have so many rescues on our hands in the first place. (I can’t imagine pups from this breeder ever land in rescue).
Ann says
Squeeee! I’m jealous.
Mary says
Congratulations!
It sounds like you’ve made the right decision for Will and for you.
Casper(our first dog) is not an easy dog. When we got him we knew very little about how to pick out the “right” puppy. Two years and just about 100 books later (including all of yours…) we thought it would be great to get a second dog and considering Casper’s problems with other males we initially thought about a confident but easy going female. And yeah, Santa, she should be blue and pretty too;) I also thought it would be great to get some pink collars in our collection 🙂
The breeder of our second dog discouraged that idea saying that Casper might become even more problematic around other dogs if he’s got a girlfriend of his own at home. When we went to meet the puppies we had Casper with us. He could meet all the dogs at her house and all the puppies. That was great! All her dogs were extremely welcoming and friendly without exception. The puppies’ mom even jumped on my lap and stayed there 🙂 I was pretty impressed.
Instead of a little blue female that I’ve had in mind as Casper’s companion, the breeder suggested Noah to us and even though Casper often dislikes other dogs, he really liked Noah from the very beginning. They’ve slept in the same bed from the very first day and even now (Casper is over 3 years old and Noah is 2) Casper always cleans Noah’s legs and belly while Noah takes care of Casper’s ears 🙂 So, even though I had my heart set on a girl and I’ve got a very strong preference for a different color, getting Noah was the best decision we’ve ever made.
If you look at their pictures: http://picasaweb.google.com/italienischewindspiele/ you’ll see that despite hundreds of hours of positive training and varied, daily social contacts with friendly dogs, Casper still greets other dogs with his tail raised and his posture all stiff while Noah spends half of his days in a play-bow 🙂 I often say that Noah should have been called Lassi 🙂 because (citing you) he is the sort of imaginary perfect dog everybody dreams of and just a few people get. Casper is a much happier dog now and we consider ourselves very lucky 🙂
I hope it’s gonna be the same in your case! Good luck!
Rachel says
Sorry about the nasty post on city-data. If you look at the whole thread, the original poster doesn’t have many people agreeing with them.
I wanted to address Mihaela’s post about people who rescue. Actually the person who made that city-data post has a purebred from a breeder and often disparages rescue dogs. In fact she was recently given a dog by someone at her dog park who had been abused and had some serious behavioral problems. She gave him about 2 weeks and now won’t say what happened to him. She now often makes veiled references to the situation as an example of why no one should ever rescue dogs. It’s fine to realize that a dog is too much for you to handle, but to turn around and criticize someone for returning a puppy with a good home waiting for it after 1 day is some serious hypocrisy.
Anyway, I just wanted to clear things up about who exactly this city-data poster is. She is not someone who runs a rescue or even thinks rescuing is a good idea. The people who run rescues and rescue dogs are the ones who agree with Trisha!
Shaya says
I second the name of “Riddle”! So cute. Like the Harry Potter reference, it fits with him being mostly black. And it sounds very different from most words.
CindyCindy says
That had to be so hard, but thankfully you got the right guy. He is adorable. I think he’ll be a gorgeous adult.
rheather says
Trisha-
I had to make myself wait a day to post because I was so angered by the ‘know-it-all’ poster in City Dog Forum(?). I still want to send them a virtualy twacking(//////) so there! I hope you don’t get too much of that kind of ugly in the replies.
Thanks for giving the reality of things not workiing out, and how to make it better. Now that I’m older I realize how much can be edited and slanted to give the very best impression. And how real life is always going to have wrinkles no matter how carefully you press it.
And I’ve rescued a puppy(way past) that a friend found wandering. Her comment was “I can’t take her to the shelter because she’s too ugly!” And I had to agree. So yeah, ugly puppies do exist!
Anne J says
I am sad about the negative comments you have gotten. It’s far better for both the puppy and Will to be matched with the right dog personalities in the household than to have two males that hate each other living together, or a have the pup in a situation where he will have to get along with all sorts of strange dogs and that’s just not his personality. As the owner of several dogs who are not “dog park ready” I totally understand how much easier for the humans and fairer to the dogs it is to match personalities that will get along, not ones that are bound to conflict.
Faith says
For what it’s worth, I think the right decision was made. In reading more of the blog post that had the negative comments, I find it interesting that in calling someone an expert they completely discount that expert happens to be a human being. Experts have specialized knowledge and more than the average person on a specific subject. That doesn’t mean they don’t make mistakes! I liken the situation a bit to folks who get upset when a doctor can’t give a definitive answer on something. Doctors are not omniscient – they use the knowledge they have and make the best decision they can. Trisha, I think it’s fabulous that you blog about your personal experiences and recount what works and what doesn’t. No one is perfect and we all make mistakes. If we can’t learn from those mistakes, then that’s when there is a problem. Kudos to you, Trisha.
LynnSusan says
I will weigh in on the name game.
I think his name is “Chance”, because you gave him one.
Susan says
I’m fine w/returning the puppy as it’s best to do it now while the dog is still young and as someone mentioned in a previous comment, I imagine there’s a contract you signed stating the dog must be returned to the breeder.
I agree with the above poster who asked what about shelter dogs? At what age do you feel it’s worth it to work w/the dog? Does it matter if the dog is 9 weeks, 9 months, or 9 yrs old?
What would you say to a person who adopted a 9 week old dog from a city shelter to help work on the farm, but had the same issues as Mick? Would you tell them to hire a behaviorist to work through their behavioral issues, or tell them to return it? What if that dog was 9 months or 9 years old? Does it make a difference if the dog is at a no-kill v. high-kill shelter? Yes, I know many no-kill shelters are forced to euthanized.
I think the main thing that people will question is, if you’re an animal behaviorist, what was tried in this situation to help Mick? Anything? Or, was a decision made that he won’t outgrow this behavior?
Would you tell other people to let the dog pick out the new addition to the family? You gave the final OK, but is it OK to essentially let the dog pick out the right fit?
No matter how one feels (as I’ve stated, I think you made a fine decision), but your reputation will suffer in some arenas because of this. Many people will question why you chose not to work with a 9 wk old puppy w/mounting & other issues. You want him to work on your farm, help give Will confidence and work on his “issues”, but ppl will question why a behaviorist couldn’t fix or attempt to help fix this puppy’s problems. Who knows, perhaps he could outgrow these behaviors?
My one dog mounted as a puppy. I called it the “crazy” mount. Almost as you described, he almost took on the character of someone else. He was simply not himself. After getting neutered and working to stop the behavior, the mounting behavior soon stopped. Again, I’m only saying what I imagine people are reading and are probably afraid to post due to the tone of these comments.
I love all the rescue bashing going on here as well. I don’t recall anyone saying they’re w/a rescue and we’ve apparently been told the negative comments didn’t come from a rescuer/rescue group. Way to assume things I guess? That is another example of why breeders often get a bad rap. Someone makes a comment and it’s people who say oh, he/she must be with a rescue. Sad. As breeders, we must support those who rescue and understand that not all are out to get us.
DebraS says
The comments by Unnamed represent what is worst about the internet. I limit how much time I spend on unmoderated forums due to the indiscriminate spewing of hate and holier-than-thou judgment. I, too, thought it rather inconsistent that Unnamed is not a fan and yet continues to follow and read your blog.
This blog, however, represents what is best about the internet. I appreciate and am grateful for your generosity and openness. It was bold to allow the negative commentary and I know that as a caring person those words from nowhere still had power to wound. I hope that the support and kindness of many of the comments coming in have been balm. You are awesome. A couple years ago, a good, good friend of mine after seeing how much in love I was with my Jelly, got a “designer, hypoallergenic” dog. I sighed, bit my tongue (it being too late to alter her decision) and bought a copy of “The Other End of the Leash” and sent it to her. Luckily, her dog is a happy and healthy pup who got a better start because of your book.
I am certain you will love new puppy every bit as much as you would have loved Mick, perhaps more because he was chosen by Willie.
Best wishes to Jim for a speedy and full recovery.
Trisha says
Continued grateful thanks for the support coming in, and the excellent questions. Many will be answered tomorrow. I think the most important ones are : 1) what behaviors are ‘fixable’ (almost all) and which can only be shaped and/or managed (very few, but they are critical in some contexts). And I do understand that some people have/will criticize me for not choosing to work with the potential issues in the first pup. It’s painful for me to hear, I have to admit, but it illustrates an important point to understand about behavior: just as in medicine, you can’t “cure’ everything. You can treat and manage, but you can’t always cure. This case is simple at it’s most fundamental issue; the pup’s behavior suggested that he could well grow up to what I call an “alpha wannabee” male. One of the very few issues that can not be ‘fixed,’ but sometimes can be dealt with through training and management, is two status-seeking, “alpha wanna-be” insecure dogs of the same sex in the same household. That is what I was looking at, and after spending three years of intensive effort saving Will from inevitable euthanasia, I simply was not willing to put either him or me in that position. I’ll post more about this tomorrow, but thanks again for all the thoughtful comments.
Trisha says
And one quick additional point I should have added above: sometimes 2 same sex insecure status-seeking dogs who live together all the the can be trained and managed, and sometimes…. they can’t. Every trainer and behaviorist that I respect knows that you can’t ‘fix’ everything… the expertise comes in knowing what can be trained and managed, and what can’t… more soon.
Beth says
Trisha, I love your work and this is my first time commenting here. I applaud your honesty in going public about your decision to return a puppy. The puppy will find a new home shortly, and since a dog being a “bad match” for its home can bring a lifetime of frustration and unhappiness to the dogs, it’s best for all involved for the pup to go to a home where his personality won’t be an issue.
I just wanted to comment on the idea that all “good” breeders have all the pups placed before they are born. I am not really sure that is possible. What if your breed averages 5 pups a litter and you have a litter of 10? What if you thought you were having 7 and only end up with 2? What do you tell your list of puppy-buyers then? What about the “unplanned” litters that can inevitably happen, even in the most careful of homes?
I think that “good” breeders are confident that they have a steady stream of puppy-seekers based on their reputation and shouldn’t have trouble finding homes for pups. I wouldn’t say that all good breeders have the puppies placed before the breeding even takes place. I have known of good breeders who had a litter of 3 and none went to pet homes, or had a larger litter and decided that most could go to working/show homes, or had litters that mostly went to pet homes and some of that can’t be known til the litter is born. Experienced breeders can have confidence that they’ll find the right homes for the right puppies without necessarily having a list of buyers at the time the breeding takes place.
Good luck with the new guy, and I hope he and Will form a true friendship.
Ann W in PA says
I have to say that I object to the idea that Mick could have, or should have, remained in the McConnell household and been “fixed.” Sure, we can modify a dog’s behavior, but at what point does it verge on expecting any puppy we choose to be programmed to suit our needs and wishes, like some kind of computer? Dogs are individuals, and just as when we choose human friends, I think it’s an excellent idea to look for those with personalities we already like, who will enjoy the same kinds of things we like to do…
My Rowdy is a hard dog. He is an independent and persistent ACD who is a bully with other dogs. He loves work and is very serious. ‘Snuggling’ is rare, and on his terms. I knew this when I met him, already an adult, and I LOVE him. He needs guidance like any dog, but he doesn’t need to be “fixed.” Now that doesn’t mean I want a second dog just like him, so my new little girl at 18 months is a soft little sprite of a BC. And Rowdy is absolutely over the moon for her (she spent a weekend at our place to make sure.) We both can’t wait for her to move in with us for good in two weeks. She’s what we both are looking for in a companion, just as she is.
Thank goodness Mick won’t have to live his life as the square peg forced into the round hole, and can go on to find somewhere he’ll fit as the dog he is.
Mary Beth says
Last year I brought home a young cross eyed Lab. She failed out of the field trial world because she can only see about 100 yards. The number one reason I picked her was that she got along with every single dog she met and she’s a total mush. Sure enough, in my pack, we call her “Switzerland”. Maggie can do something to another dog and they’ll totally ignore her. My hound does the same thing and gets chewed out by the other dogs.
But I have to admit, when the time came to take her leash, my gut clenched. Those cross eyes looked absolutely ugly to me.
A year later, she is the true joy of our lives, a perfect complement to our pack, and a fantastic working dog…with no training! I had portraits done of all the dogs and guess which one was most photogenic? The cross eyed girl! Now I’m waffling. Do I blow up the stunningly perfect picture of her gazing directly into the camera, or do I use the one with her head cocked sideways which eliminates the cross eyed look?
Kudos to you for being brave and making the right decision. I spent two years playing with every dog that I brought into the shelter as a Dog Warden until one day the right one literally leapt into my arms. He’s obnoxious, much bigger than I wanted, a slow learner, and the love of my life.
By picking the right dog for your lifestyle and your pack, you’ll be able to tell us tear jerking stories in another 15 years about this special little one. Thanks so much for sharing!
Laurel says
@Faith: I think it’s absolutely right to return a dog who has every prospect of a wonderful home to a breeder who will love it and supervise its placement carefully. Don’t keep the dog in the wrong home. Taking it back is easy and will have good results.
If you have a shelter dog you can’t deal with, whether because you made a mistake or because the dog turned out not to work for you for reasons outside your control, the best option is to find someone else – a rescue or experienced dog person or committed new owner – to take the dog, and to work with the dog to improve any behaviors that get in the way of it being adoptable. (And sometimes this will not work. There are crazy dogs out there – not many of them, but certainly a few.) But you don’t take it right back to the shelter because there’s nowhere else good for the dog to go – not because you somehow love the rescue dog more or have more of an obligation to it. You still don’t keep the dog in the wrong home. That’s not kind to the dog or to you.
Anne says
Joanna Kimball wrote: “I wish more breeders were commenting on this thread, but I think the opinion would be unanimous. We do NOT want people muddling through, struggling to overcome issues, forgiving bad behavior, or any other variation on a miserable experience. ”
If only this were true. Earlier this spring I returned a puppy to the breeder (who was great about it also) for presenting fear aggression. I had discussed with the breeder that I wasn’t looking for a project puppy. I have 3 other dogs and she needed to get along well with them and have a solid temperament. She did not. And my oldest dog (12) was most definitely put out by her presence. So after much internal debate, consultation and discussion with the breeder she was returned. And all that went very well. It is what happened next that floored me.
I received an unsolicited email from another breeder (with whom I had earlier placed a puppy inquiry) telling me that as a small breeder it was his expectation that every pup went to it’s forever home, first time out and that he would not be willing to sell me a puppy since I had returned one. The presumptuousness of his email just blew me away. And it has made me very gun shy about making further inquiries for a puppy.
I hope that your discussion of returning a puppy will open the eyes and minds of other breeders, who are not so willing to take back a puppy that just doesn’t fit or that has temperament issues. I laud your willingness to put it all out there.
All the best,
Anne
Kelsey says
I am totally boggled by the (very few) critical responses you’re getting, Trisha. Returning the pup and letting him find a home where he could let his personality shine without issue seems indisputably the kindest and wisest thing to do, for the pup, for you guys and for Willie. The clearheaded breeder who posted above and described the myriad fallibilities inherent in the placement process was right on: fit is a totally crucial thing in adding any new animal to a household, and making sure you’re setting everyone up for success by ensuring that their personalities mesh is the only responsible thing to do. I hope you can keep some emotional distance from the critical comments, and I hope you know how many people love your work and how many of us you’ve helped.
And as the owner of a big shaggy terrier who looks like a Muppet version of an old Italian grandpa, I can attest that adorable and goofy-awkward-ugly can totally coexist in the same dog. I love your sweet little boy already, and I wish your whole family a lot of happiness as he gets settled in (even Jim, if he can manage.)
PS: If you ever decide to do a list similar to your puppy-picking list for shelter/rescue/adult dogs, I know that I (and everyone else whose dog-friends come from shelters) would be eternally grateful.
Dog Foster Mom says
I really look forward to tomorrow’s post. Incidentally, I have a “status-seeking, alpha-wannabe” female and she is a constant puzzle to me. In fact, if there are any specific books or resources dealing with dogs like these that you or your readers recommend, I would love to know. I have heard that scratching the ground after defecating is a sign of “alpha-wannabe”, for lack of a better term. Also “over-marking” (not sure if I got that term right), or urinating immediately after another dog, in the exact same spot, is a similar sign, I think? My girl does that all the time, and I wonder if I should be doing something to discourage the behavior. Since I foster dogs, I am constantly concerned about her and making it a smooth transisition for each new foster dog I bring in.
em says
I realize that it’s way late-I just wanted to add my congratulations on the new pup and concur with those who have called for a more respectful, more compassionate attitude in web forums of all kinds. I, for what it’s worth, also agree that the switcheroo was probably the best choice for everyone, and much harder on you, Trisha, than Mick, by a long shot.
I also appreciate your honesty because it demonstrates just how powerful that gut-impulse to choose the “cute” puppy can be. I know that Mick did really well on most of your screening tests, and that you didn’t make this choice on looks alone, but despite the fact that the most important characteristic in your prospective dog was a bomb-proof attitude toward other dogs, you chose the only pup who failed the dog-introduction test. And you didn’t complete all the tests with the pup that you found least physically appealing. I’m not saying that’s why, but I certainly got the impression that you didn’t seriously consider him until Will ‘picked’ him for you. If you can make that kind of mistake, anyone can. I really, really appreciate this post, because it reminds us all to keep a tight leash on that emotional tendency to gravitate to ‘cuteness’ and pass right by a dog who might be a better choice.
Pike says
I second what Ann W. in PA said.
Dogs do not need “fixing” by us know-it-all (so not!) humans. It is good to be reminded once in a while that we are not gods and should not try to be – even though we sure do control most everything about our dogs incl. what we find socially acceptable – meaning what dogs get to live or die.
Dogs and and their prospective households need to be a good match for each other. Being incompatible does not mean that there is something wrong with either dog or human that needs fixing. It just isn’t a good fit.
What I take out of this emotional thread, is to pay more attention that my next newcomer dog will be a good fit for my household. And for me, that always included a possible return phase, where I am trying to not to beat myself up for not picking the best fitting pup the first time around.
Now, how I would go about returning a dog to a kill shelter (I have always gotten my dogs from shelters or rescues) still needs some more thoughts on my end. Fighting for making all shelters no-kill shelters seems the obvious way to go…
Katie says
Living with an insecure alpha-wanna-be male, I cannot imagine the stress of living with a pair of them. Very little good is going to come of it, not to mention the completely unnecessary amount of stress on all involved. Returning the pup to his breeder where he will be ensured a different, better match of a home certainly seems the wisest option available. And it sounds like this new guy is a much better fit!
He’s adorable, of course. A BC pup could not be otherwise.
Wendy W says
Trisha – thank you very much for sharing so many details of your life with us. I have been reading your blog for about a year now, learning how to be a better “mom” for my new pup, enjoying your beautiful photos, finding opportunities to more fully consider choices I have made, and also reaching a better place with regards to memories of the final days of my dogs’ lives.
I’ve hated to see you take some hits over the choices you’ve made with Mick and no-name. It’s made me think of a cranky old man I once knew, who would frequently announce that regardless of what he did, about a third of the people in his life liked him, about third didn’t, and the other third just didn’t give a damn. He’d then tell others that they would be much happier if they’d just spend more time with the people who actually liked them.
I’m guessing your ratios are much better – so here’s hoping that the challenges of the coming days will be offset by puppy kisses, frolicking lambs, and the warmth of folks who love and respect you.
MaryK says
What a cutie – I bet he grows up to be very handsome! Now he needs a really good name.
Good for you! Thinking of Will first. He is your primary responsibility. So many people get so wrapped up in new puppy syndrome and forget the dog with seniority. I’m seriously considering a second corgi and that is my biggest fear – that my first dog will be miserable.
All Mick knows at this point is that he had an interesting sleep-over. No harm, no foul. But Will seems to know the difference and obviously is much happier at this point. And I think you and Jim will be, too, in the long run.
Hope all goes well with Jim’s surgery!
Chelle says
I have two rescue dogs and a puppy from an extremely “reputable” breeder (by any definition I’ve ever seen).
Ultimately, you have to do what’s best for the dogs you have. Your dog(s) probably did not ask you to bring home another pet…you made that decision. If a new prospective member of the family does not work out, a situation I am thankfully yet to encounter, then I believe it is your responsibility to ensure the newcomer is safe and cared for, but that the existing family members have to take priority.
To those questioning the decision made regarding Mick: how would it have been better if the first puppy was kept a few months to see if his probably issues could be overcome? How is that fair to Will? And how is that fair to the puppy…who now has a negative reputation and has gone from uber-cute puppy to lanky adolescent and will likely have a harder time finding the right home?
In any case — welcome home to Will’s pick!
Debby says
I think returning him was the best decision for him and you. It just wasn’t a good match. Of course you could make it work but why would you when he could easily be placed with another family and you could have a puppy that works better for you. Returning a puppy to a breeder is not the same as returning an adult dog to a shelter, wich unfortunatly is necessary sometimes. Sometimes people get this ” it could be done ” attitude and they don’t see the big picture. Alot of things could work out if you had to do it, but you must take the consequences into consideration. In this case the puppy went back to a safe familiar home where he will be adopted soon.
As far as the critism of the breeder for not picking the matches; everything depends on the situation. Although they may pick a puppy out for a novice owner or a family with chidren or other special circunstances, allowing an experienced person choose their puppy is ok too. And yes, even Patricia McConnel changed her mind, OMG STOP THE PRESS. Get over it people, really, no, REALLY. Yes, responsible breeders would never produce puppies they couldn’t have homes for, but selling them prior to birth is not ALWAYS responsible either. Some people may take a puppy they never bond with because they are committed, they may even end up in a shelter as an adolescent or adult. It just depends.
So thank you for being honest and truthful. I once returned a dog that wasn’t a good match ( I should of never brought him home in the first place ) and he ended up finding a home that suited his needs. I still feel bad at times, he was an adult in a shelter, but couldn’t put the safety of my cat at risk. He was too reactive, nervous, and willing to use his mouth. I was also too inexperienced at the time. Lesson learned, never get a dog because you feel sorry for him. We tried to make it work while he was back at the shelter, making accomidations at home and educationg myself about dog behavior, but boy was I relieved when someone else adopted him, an older women with a quit house, no other pets, and lots of time and patience. He is actually what lead me to your books and my interest ( ok obsession ) in dog behavior ( after imitating someone on TV and getting bit, by the way ). And yes, his bite history was disclosed.
Melissa says
Tricia, thanks for elaborating on what you meant by a “red flag”. I do think that my little guy is a bit of an alpha wannabe. He is not yet socially mature and is getting heaps of socialisation now, but my expectation is that he will always be wanting to control things and as he gets older he will likely get more assertive. When he was about 6 months old he stayed with my parents. Within 24 hours he had figured out who was in control of food, doors, sleeping places, treats, and all other things important to dogs (my mother) and was attempting to intimidate her into never leaving him. Smart dog! Good thing mother has good dog sense and didn’t fall for that one. I don’t find his behaviour to be particularly hard to deal with, but my other dog is a placid, massively social and super affiliative sort of guy. I wouldn’t add another assertive or controlling sort of personality to the mix. I think the attempts at bossyness would be a much bigger problem if there were two of them clashing over control.
Nicola says
First, I want to add in my thanks for your honesty & openess. It is a rare gift, and I have learnt so much from you, both from your books and from your blog – and sometimes from your attitude in your blog as much as the words you wrote. And hurry up with the new book!!!
I brought a smooth border collie from the local RSPCA. I had one dog who was inclined to be nervous and a little dog aggressive, and I totally checked out whether the new boy, Tam, would fit with her. What I forgot is that I had two dogs. Five years later, my second dog, Buffy, is still not comfortable with Tam & quite jealous. My illness has worsened, and I am no longer able to give my bc the amount of exercise he needs. Can I manage the situation? Sure! But when Tam boards at a friend’s place, he has the time of his life, so much so that I wonder if I should rehome him. I have to wonder if I had bit the bullet two months into his life with me, would he have got a better outcome than he did with me. Keeping a dog which doesn’t fit with the existing dog/s is not always the best thing for the dog!
I might add that Buffy was so laid back & relaxed around other dogs that we used her (carefully) at club to determine whether dogs were truly dog aggressive or just uncomfortable. But she still doesn’t like or play with Tam. Having said all that, yesterday I got that “heart doubling in my chest” feeling – Buffy and Tam were lying down, facing the same direction only 30cm (1ft) apart. So life slowly gets better.
As for the name – Riddle sounds fantastic!
Nan says
How very very hard and how absolutely totally wonderful. The first pup will do splendidly and will not have to constantly be managed to inhibit his probable tendencey to bully Will, Will has the playmate he deserves, you have the dog relationship building that you crave, and the new pup (who is pretty darn cute I’d say) has a wonderful home. I laughed a bit when you wrote of the Will test. over time I’ve become increasingly convinced that that needs to be part of it–one reason arranged marriages have their challenges despite the loving insights brought by the arrangers. Thanks too for being so open about all of this–there is so much implicit social pressure to pick, stick and work it through. When there are no other good options for the new dog that is one thing but when good options abound that just leads to sad compromises and potentially an adult stage rehoming which is so much harder. Yahoo for the new family!
Ann W in PA says
I think he looks like a Finn myself. Cutie!
Barb says
When the dog picks you (Willie), you just can’t go wrong. The things this pup will teach you. I appreciate that you went with your gut and returned number one. I know that you will see to it that no name is all he can be. A good dog is never ugly, and I think he is pretty darn cute.
Laurie says
I have been living with 2 male insecure status seeking dogs for 2 years now and it has been, to say the least, a wild ride. So I understand completely why you would not go down that road. The training and management have been almost a full time job and it’s very stressful.
I have so much respect for you and I applaud your honesty and openess. I was wondering if it is possible for you to keep in touch with Mick and find out what he is like as an adult. I would love to know what his future forever family is like and how that influences him as he gets older. I think that information would be fascinating.
KathiD says
He IS adorable!
My male Sheltie was afraid of everything his first few months, even when I patiently introduced him to new things. His sister was the bold one. Now, at almost two years old, they have sort-of traded places. He is ready to greet the world with joy everywhere, and she is just a bit cautious of strange dogs. ??? Anyway, they have both worked out to be just perfect in our home.
KathiD says
Also, in some way it is reassuring to the rest of us when “the great and powerful Oz” has second thoughts! Just goes to show that sometimes it really is the dogs who know best, eh? Funny little things!
Colleen Pelar, CPDT, CDBC says
Twice now I have fallen madly in love with a dog that I did not initially think was cute. (Okay, I admit I thought they were ugly.) In both cases, their charming personalities quickly won me over and left me questioning how I could ever have been so blind.
With each, I have been slightly offended on the dog’s behalf when someone else made a comment about the dog not being cute, which makes me laugh at myself. Beauty really is in the eye of the beholder, and I’m so lucky to have had a lifetime of beautiful dogs, even if it took me a while to see it for these two particular dogs.
R.D.L. says
I volunteer at a Humane Society and I see pretty dogs, cute dogs, and ugly dogs. Strangely enough, the not-so-pretty and ugly dogs often are the nicest ones.
KathiD says
P.S. When I made my trying-for-witty comment above about “the great and powerful Oz,” I had not read the other comments and didn’t know some people were being harsh with you. I assure you, I trust your instincts completely, and I treasure your willingness to share so much on your blog. It is a big help to all of us!
Jen says
As someone who got slammed on a “positive training” forum a few years ago when I asked for some advice about bringing a new dog into my pack, I know how hurtful it can be. I had also put a lot of thought and research into my decision (which turned out to be a wonderful one). Thank you for telling us about your decision (which I agree was the right one) and am really looking forward to the new book and blog matieral that the new little guy is sure to spark.
Kerry L. says
I believe you did the responsible thing in returning Mick. New pup will likely also have issues to deal with but “managing” incompatible personalities is exhausting and takes a lot of the fun out of having the dogs. Kudos to your cortex.
Lauren says
Hi, it’s me the dog owner again. I was just reading through some of your comments and your responses and just wanted to say thanks again. As someone who benifits from trainers with the CPDT-KA (my cousin is one, but lives 1000 miles away, so I also use one locally) certification and promote your material, sometimes we really DO need to hear how things don’t go as planned. Esp when the “known” people don’t always get it right! It helps us trainees when our own difficulties arise.
We recently lost a long time beloved dog to cancer. Within two months, we had a “replacement” dog at home (we had two dogs and figured we needed another to even things up again). I wish someone had really taken the time to explain why this wasn’t a good idea on so many levels and how to pick a rescue dog. But then again, would we have listened? After 3 months of obidence classes, hours of a trainer coming to our house, many more on the phone with both the above mentioned trainers, we have made the incredibly tough decision to send the dog back to the rescue (putting on flame suit). It’s the hardest decision of our lives so far, but in the end it was the right thing to do, for us and for the dog. But it’s hard as hell and people are awfully judgemental. At this point, we have a plan to allow a mourning period and just try being a one dog household before we more forward again. So, what am I saying? Thanks for being so transparent with your difficulties, it helps people like us!
Autumn says
Everything I have to say has already been said, but I think it is worth repeating. I commend you for your decision to return Mick and for being so open about this experience. As heartbreaking as it is to return a dog, it is sometimes the most responsible thing to do. Even though you have expertise in animal behavior, it doesn’t mean that you are obligated to “fix” a problem dog that you are trying to incorporate in your own home. Working through a problem issue comes with a price – more stress for you, your husband, and Will, and not to mention time and energy. It’s not that you can’t do this – it’s is it worth it when a different home environment may be a better fit?
I had my first experience in returning a rescue dog recently who had some major unexpected anxiety issues regarding being crated. One of our next options included medication. Instead, the rescue organization worked with me and agreed to find him a home where simply being home more and not having him crated for a full workday made him a much more pleasant dog to live with. To me, it wasn’t fair to the dog to put him on meds when he could be happier in a home with people who were around more. Sure, the crate issues may need to be worked out eventually, but at least he can be in a home that can allow him to be successful. In the end, I rescued a different dog, who is a much better fit for our family and current dog. Instead of being stressed, I am much more excited and invested in her training and bonding with her. I think dogs can pick up on this and makes the transition easier when you are happy with your decision.
Also, thank you for writing such an insightful blog. As someone with an educational background in psychology, an interest in human and dog behavior, and an avid dog-lover, this is such a great read. I look forward to hearing your journey with your new pup!
Sharon says
The picture of Will and puppy playing said it all, for me. Will looks happy. That is the whole point, right? Congratulations, and here’s to many happy years for Will and his new playmate.
Eileen says
I once saw a male puppy, in a litter, about 10 weeks old lift his leg to pee. I wish I could have followed him through his life to see what kind of dog he became, but I sure wasn’t going to bring him home.
Jones says
I think the issue that the opposition has is the hypocrisy involved.
According to McConnell:
Puppy testing is an extremely accurate predictor of future temperament/personality.
So… is this incorrect, or was the test inaccurately performed (or perhaps simply ignored)
Dominance doesn’t exist.
But… this dog was showing what some would consider dominant behaviours – so much so that it was enough to return the dog.
She needs a dog who is “bomb-proof”
Yet… she chose as her second choice another sound sensitive dog. Why not search out another litter?
If this situation involved Jane Average Pet Owner, there would still be some haters, but the main issue the haters have is that this involved a “behaviour expert.”
Not taking sides, but that is where the concern lies to the majority of those who have an issue with what has taken place. And let’s face it… in the pet owning general public, there’s always that question in the back of their minds… What Would Cesar Do?
Of course a few are just nutjobs… I’ve witnessed blog posts describing an incredibly uplifting pet story inevitably attract flamers squawking about how too many resources are directed to animals, and all pet owners are (fill in the blank with whatever curse you find most offensive).
trisha says
To Jones: If you had read my posts, where was it I said that puppy tests are “extremely accurate predictors of future behavior?” As a matter of fact, I have often said, both in the blog, in my books and in my column in Bark magazine that I believe that evaluations of puppies are only one way to make PROBABILITY statements about future behavior, that they are no more than educated guesses, and there is virtually no perfect way to predict future behavior from one context to another. I also said that there was one potential flag about the first pup’s reaction to another dog, but it was impossible to know what it meant without getting more information and bring the pup home for a few days.
And I have never said that “dominance” doesn’t exist. I have said repeatedly that the concept is misunderstood and over-simplified, but have taken heat from some quarters because I DO believe that social status is an issue between dogs. Sounds like now I’m taking heat from both ends of the spectrum.
Not that you’re “taking sides,” but the use of the word “haters” is unfortunate, to say the least.
Tamara says
I just stumbled on your blog and this brou-ha-ha. I am not a dog trainer, nor a breeder, and not a credited dog behaviorist, but as someone who has owned dogs for most of my 50+ years on the planet, and someone who has owned many different breeds (purebred and mixed), some challenging, some easy, I can say with at least the authority of life experience I don’t see what all the hullabaloo is about. So you did the right thing for the pup instead of keeping him to save face, or feed your ego to prove you can handle every situation. Apparently those who are critical of your decision to return the pup would rather feed their own egos then applaud you for putting the pup and your pack first. I say “bravo for you”, and now I’m off to Amazon to order “The Other End of the Leash’. I just finished “For the Love of a Dog” and think it is one of the best dog books I have ever read. You rock!
firstimepupmom says
This post was a long time ago but I relate so much and I don’t know what to do. I adopted a puppy exactly 2 months ago. She was 8 weeks old when I adopted her and he’s a rescue. It seems that she went through some trauma in her early days as she’s a fearful puppy. She also doesn’t know when to stop when playing with other puppies or smaller dogs as she tries to dominate and then attack. She is fearful of loud noises and even certain objects. I live in an apartment complex in the city so it is very hard to exercise her and walk her because of how fearful she is. I have spent so much time and money on puppy school and obedience training and we are making strides but we still have a long way to go. I don’t think she’s a good fit for me because of my living situation and I also wanted a dog I could take everywhere with me and was more of a therapy dog – she on the other hand increases my anxiety through the roof as I don’t want her hurting any other pups or herself. I am an inexperienced dog owner and I feel that she would be better with someone who is more experienced than me and has a large fenced yard. I have reached out to 2 different dog establishments and the shelter where I adopted her but they don’t listen to my concerns and just tell me that it takes time and patience. I don’t know what to do, I do love her and it would break my heart if I need to surrender her as she has imprinted on me already and I love her so much. I would probably abstain from adopting another dog until I have a home with a fenced yard in case this happens again. Just wanted to hear your thoughts on this! thanks