I can’t resist repeating a post from 2012 on repeating ourselves. (I know, the irony!) It’s such an important and interesting issue, given how often our communication must confuse our dogs, and how tiring it must be for them to try to figure us out. From March, 2012:
A blog reader asked a great question recently, in response to my comment that I couldn’t help myself and repeated “Stay, Stay, Stay” to Willie when in a dangerous situation at the side of a busy highway. We all know that repeated cues, like the ever popular “Sit, Sit, Sit” are not exactly “best practice” in dog training. And yet, they are commonly used, especially by beginners; just go to any beginning family dog training class and you’ll hear repeated cues thrown around like confetti at a homecoming parade. It was that very occurrence that helped inspire me to write The Other End of the Leash, about how the evolutionary backgrounds of people and dogs both help us (we’re both crazy social and insanely playful) and hurt us (direct facial contact is polite to people, rude to dogs). “Sit, Sit, Sit” sounds a lot like “Wooo Woo Woo” coming from a chimpanzee, and that is not a random association. But why? Why do we repeat ourselves like agitated apes, and why is it so hard to stop? We all know why it is a problem in training: If you want your dog to sit the first time you say “Sit” you are teaching the opposite if you say it three times in a row. But besides wondering why we do it, might it be useful, ever, to repeat ourselves?
First of all, why do we repeat ourselves when it makes no sense? A look at the science of vocal communication is helpful here. We know that individuals who are emotionally aroused tend to produce short, repeated vocalizations. Think of repeated whines from a needy dog, whimpers from a child upset about something, and your own predisposition to repeat yourself when you are nervous. In The Other End of the Leash I talk about a good friend who had never ridden, and yet was inappropriately placed on a nervous, high strung horse. The faster the horse went, the more my friend said “Whoa! Whoa! Whoa!” and the more he did, the faster the horse went, and the faster the horse went, the faster he said “Whoa Whoa Whoa”… You can well imagine that it did not end well.
This linkage between emotional arousal and short, repeated vocalizations is so common in mammals that some have speculated that all animal vocalizations were nothing more than indicators of their emotional state. As arousal increases, so does the rate of vocalizing. Thus, it makes sense that when we are nervous we tend to repeat ourselves, and who isn’t nervous the first time they take a dog into a dog training class, no matter how kind and benevolent the instructors?
But there’s more to vocalizations than the internal state of the producer. An important aspect of my dissertation research was to shift the focus and look at a sound’s effect on the receiver. I had found that across language groups, cultures and species of receiver, people use short, rapidly repeated notes to speed animals up, long and slow ones to soothe or slow them and one sharp sound to stop a fast moving animal. And the study I did on puppies showed that they indeed were more active in response to short, repeated notes than to long, slow ones. That’s why I argued that sounds do more than provide information about the internal state of the producer (or predict future behavior), but can be used to influence the response of the receiver.
Go back now to the story I’ve told about having to get Willie out of his crate beside a busy highway (while trying to save a wild turkey hit by a car). Picture cars and trucks whizzing by at 65 miles an hour, a huge bleeding, flapping turkey barely contained by Jim’s arms, and me needing to open the crate in the back of my RAV to get Willie out and put the turkey in. Describing everyone as “aroused” is appropriate here: If Jim had lost the turkey it could have fallen/ran/flown just a few feet into the highway and caused a horrible accident. If I didn’t handle Willie right he could have been killed. Tom Turkey must have been the most agitated — injured and now captured by monsters, he must have been terrified. Here’s what the scene looked and sounded like, as best as I can describe it:
I opened the door to the back of the car (the door to Willie’s crate facing directly to the back). While holding my hand out, palm toward Willie in the universal “Stay” signal, I began repeating “Staaaaaaay, Staaaaaay, Staaaasaay” before I opened the door to his crate. Notice there were two important variables in the sounds that I used here: I repeated myself, but I was using looooooong, sloooooooow notes designed to keep Willie calm and still. I was also consciously keeping my voice low, the better to sound confident and inhibiting. Thus, there were 2 functions to my “cue.” One was using sound to inform Willie what I wanted him to do. The other, which over rode the first, was focused on using sound to influence his emotional state and motor activity levels. This had an indirect benefit for me, in that speaking as I did acted to calm me as much as it did Willie. (Not a small benefit at the time, believe me.)
Was that a “perfect” use of sound in that context? Nope, I don’t think so. It was adequate, and it worked, but here’s a tweak that would have made it better. Ideally, now that I have time to think it through, it would have been better if I had said “Staaaaaaay” once, and then, as Willie did stay (which he did, bless him), I should have said “Gooooooooooood boooooooy” and repeated it as long as I needed to until I had him safely by the collar. That avoided repeating a cue (and undercutting the power of it when spoken once) but would, at the same time, have served to keep all of us calmer and safer.
Lots to think about here: First, think about what you say to your dog. Are you using vocal cues to convey information, or to influence your dog’s emotional state? And how do the sounds you use influence your own internal arousal levels? I’d love to hear your thoughts about this. Heaven knows I will never use sound ideally in every context (I have been known, on occasion, to shriek like a massive mouse when truly panicked) but I find the more I understand about acoustic communication the better I am at it. You?
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Crazy, wonderful, late summer/early fall weekend with friends, and the inauguration of The Tent Camp at Walnut Grove. I’m not sure it’s possible to have had more fun. Thank you Kelly, Meg, Matt & Randy for making Jim and I laugh so hard our sides ached. We’re not the only ones who will miss you–Tootsie, Willie & Maggie got non-stop petting pretty much two days running. Here’s Kelly loving up on Maggie; if that’s not doggie bliss, I don’t know what is.
And here’s a dear friend’s Cavalier, asking us why we humans can so bad at communicating what we want…
Janis Bradley says
The more we have learned in the literature that has bloomed in the intervening decades about human/dog interaction and communication, the larger your initial work on human vocalizations and canine receivers looms. It would be wonderful if more researchers would use this a jumping off point for studies of the human canine bond. Thanks for all you do.
Trisha says
What a wonderful thing to say Janis! Thank you.
Lisa says
The ‘one time and/or calm’ concept seems the hardest one for people to master – having trained (or tried to train) a multitude of new volunteers at an open intake shelter, I sometimes despair of anyone getting it. The happy, chirpy, repeated high noises coming from a person approaching an already aroused, jumping dog in a kennel is so counter productive. I would add that in some cases, to get a previously trained and oft repeated behavior (I have the leash, you need to sit calmly before I put it on), really does not require any verbalization at all; the cue is I’m by the door, I have the leash……
Thanks for your writings – love every part – dog or farm.
Terry says
I have read your articles in Whole Dog Journal and ordered one of your books. I was 1/4 way through your book The Other End of the Leash when I thought crossed my mind, “I wish I had known this years ago” The communication or lack of between our two species just makes so much sense. I signed up for your website right away. You’re awesome!!
Trisha says
To Lisa: Oh, such a wonderful point to remind us all–that often the primary cue is visual anyway, even though we humans focus on the words! Thanks for the excellent addition.
And “Ah, garsh,” Terry. You are too kind!
Crystal says
I was having this discussion with my trainer. I believe that some commands are ok to be repeated, as a reminder. Wait. Stay. She disagrees. When I run agility courses with her, I’ll say “Here here” to get her attention if she is going in the wrong direction. (probably because I gave her an unclear signal). My instructor hates the repeat. I say it’s an attention getter.
Tone is important to her, too. I usually go for the high pitched short obstacle commands. Jump. Walk. Weave. Teeter. But apparently she prefers a more low tone authoritative command. Go tunnel. But it’s not my first instinct, it’s hard to remember. She wants to be ordered, not encouraged.
Bruce says
Trish: Very useful information, and worth repeating.
Trish: Very useful information, and worth repeating.
Trish: Very useful information, and worth repeating.
Sorry, I couldn’t help myself. 🙂
Here is a situation where I have found your advice very useful. We take the dogs for a short drive to the park, which is chock-full of exciting things – dogs, squirrels, ducks, joggers, bicyclists, Frisbee-throwers, soccer- and tennis-players, and picnickers. I park the car, grab leashes, and walk to the back door. Brown Dog sits patiently while the Sammy whines and paws at the door.
I open the door, lean forward to “take the space”, and become the most boring human being on the planet. “Waaaaaaaait, goooooooood, theeeeere’s a leeeeash for Saaaaammy, aaaaand theeeeeere’s a leeeeash for Brooooown Dooooog.” Lean back, pause, “OK!”
It works pretty well, and of course the routine eventually becomes habit for the dogs. I can only hope to remain that boring in an emergency.
Jann Becker says
Your turkey incident shows how an urgent situation makes it really hard for humans to speak slowly, pitched low. I find this to be an argument for teaching a dog to respond to hand signals with or without the verbal cue. At a minimum, Sit and Stay can be given by gesture, from a distance, even when there’s auditory chaos.
I recall in one of your books your Border Collie (Willie?) was about to be run down by a much larger dog, you were frantic, and another spectator said “Down your dog.” That appeased the attacker-and the cue had to be given at a distance by a frantic human. Was that a hand signal, voice, or both?
Kat says
I’ve been trying to imagine what I’d do in your scenario of the injured tom turkey and a dog in the back. The life they lead both my dogs need to never ever get out of the car without permission. All other rules in their lives can have some flexibility but leaving the yard (even on leash) and getting out of the car (even on leash) can ONLY be done if they are specifically released. I could have opened the back said a firm “Wait” holding up my stop sign hand and reached to pick up the leash from where it is tucked under the edge of the rug, fastened on the leash and released with “That’ll do.” My problem would have come when the turkey was in the car and the dog was totally fascinated in the backseat. That’s when the repetitive “leave it, leave it, leeeeeeave it” would have started.
It makes me wonder how much of our need to repeat comes from our lack of trust in our training. I’ve trained Ranger to stay in the car no matter what until released so I’d feel pretty confident that “wait” just once would be enough to keep him in place. On the other hand while he will “leave it” for the most part that isn’t a cue that is kept really sharp and in the face of an injured wild turkey right there in his car I don’t have any faith that one “leave it” in my deep growly voice would be sufficient to keep Ranger from trying to get up close and personal with the turkey.
Rachel says
I find myself most tempted to repeat cues when either of the boys is distracted. It happens more often with Remus, who is younger at only 9 months and still working though some leash reactivity issues. One of the most helpful things (for me, and, subsequently, for him) seems to be if I remind him that I’m there without repeating the cue. For instance, if I’ve asked for a sit and he’s focused on a distant interesting object, I’ll wait for him to sit on his own. When he doesn’t and is still clearly focused on that distant leaf blowing in the wind, I’ll get down next to him and whisper in his ear “I’m talking to you, Remus.” He immediately comes back to himself and sits (or downs, or watches, or whatever I had asked for). I’m sure all the neighbors think we’re nuts (it’s that dog lady with the bait bag sitting on the sidewalk whispering in her dog’s ear again!), but it does seem to help us both remain calm and focused when walking/working and dealing with distractions. And making the conscious effort to whisper to him keeps me from chirping those repetitive commands.
Trisha says
To Crystal: I have to admit I disagree with your instructor’s dislike of “Here Here.” I actually consider that one cue, and a perfect one at that (to get a dog’s attention back on you.) Short, repeated notes are more effective at increasing motor activity, at least based on my research as a PhD student), and I believe (no data) that they also are more likely to get and keep attention. Thus, with great pleasure, I say “Here Here!” to your “Here Here” cue.
To Kat: Oh yes, your point is excellent. I often repeat myself because I simply don’t have the faith that the first time will work (often without waiting to see). Ironically, I do the same when writing. I’ll make a point, and then, next sentence, make it again. Editors kindly add comments in the margin like “Yes, but you just said that.” Sometimes I think writing is like gardening–10% adding what you want, 90% taking out what’s unnecessary or unwanted.
Trisha says
To Bruce: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. No, really, thanks for the laugh and the story about the perfect use of looooong, sloooooooow words. Love it.
Rebarka says
I recommend your books/videos/blogs to so many people, insisting that you give instructions and advice that are “average dog owner” friendly. thank you for being so “human.”
My #1 dog is so flexible and forgiving, she allows me to make mistakes. My #2 is a little more sensitive and i find that I’m really trying to stay focused on how/what i say to him. He’s had a few hiccups in his short 1.5 years and it feels like herding puppies. I think i get one thing in place and something else goes awry. i work on thing two and out of nowhere comes a thing three. I find the most difficult part is practicing and preparing for the unknown. Sadly, or not, i think my most used phrase these days is “ah ah ahhh”
Tanya says
Fascinating post and comments. I always click through to read things I know I am not getting quite right. I know I do this and have instinctively used the loooong slooooow way without knowing why I am am speaking like that, although knew it worked to keep them calm, and the kneeling down beside talking in their ear – for some reason this really helps with getting their attention. More training needed – I simply havn’t yet got them to remain in a sit or stay using s single word cue for as long as I need them to outside of the house. Training inside with fewer stimuli is a heck of a lot easier than out in the exciting/scary big wide world. I agree about hand signals, with my old dog and a relationship that lasted well over a decade, a simple hand up meant stay, and he would remain focussed on me until I gave him the signal to come, a great safety mechanism in an emergency, such as being on opposite sides of a road.
Bruce – I am sure outside of the house my only function as far as my dogs are concerned is being the one who initiates trips to exciting places, but I am super-boring in making us all walk there rather than race at top speed all the way through scary car parks, past scary bicycles etc. My dogs must look at me and think What on Earth are we Doing Hanging Around this Crazy Stuff when we could be over there Having Fun?
em says
Gates and doorways are one of those things I find much easier to manage with my big dogs – it’s far more difficult for them to scoot past me, and neither, thank heaven, is the type to just bowl me over and crash on past.
That said, there are a few specific contexts where quick, impulsive, Sandy will start leaping forward the minute I open the door- places where she generally can and habitually does hop out unleashed. She’s very good in parking lots and along roadways, but if we’re in a place that looks too much like one of her park haunts, she sometimes rushes the door.
Happily, a palm-forward hand movement in her direction and a single “waaaait” cue will hold her- she’ll scramble back and wait for her leash and release cue.
Today, though, I was so proud of her because when I opened the door in one of the places she typically has “memory lapses” about waiting to be released, she jumped excitedly forward, then abruptly checked HERSELF with no cue from me, backed up and waited politely for her leash and release.
She got the gold star treatment for that one!
Trisha says
To em and Sandy: YAY!!!!!! Aren’t things like that just wonderful!
Marianne Hovde says
Very interesting about primate communication – interesting angle on repeating cues. I don’t think there’s necessarily any harm in repeating cues occasionally, if it’s done to increase clarity for the dog when it’s a life or death situation.
We use some continuous cues in agility, which are used for increased clarity while the dog is moving at high speed and in a high arousal state. You want it to be as easy as possible for the dog to understand your cues in that situation.
“They” also say you can do something in training 10% of the time and it doesn’t hurt your training. So if your dog normally responds really well to “Stay”, and this one time you repeated it because it was extra important, chances are it doesn’t affect your dog’s overall response to the cue.
Karen says
Highly excitable Australian Shepherd
Time to go out in the morning.
With me… Calm body, calm ‘mat’ cue by door, calm release. =calm exit and calm dog
With husband… Exuberant ‘good morning’ greeting, fast March to door and quick opening accompanied by jumping , barking Australuan Shepherd. Oh well LOL
Mona Lindau says
It is not just repetition that causes arousal, it is also high pitch, same for slowing animals down/calming: normal to lower pitch, falling intonation. The high pitch/low pitch fits with Morton’s rules,and Trisha’s work added the variation in the time domain.
It is interesting to look at human languages too, where Morton’s rules apply as well. Languages tend to signal Questions with some sort of high pitch: high tone (Chinese), rising intonation (English), a question word with high pitch (Hausa), etc. In addition, or course there is a small amount of sound symbolism in languages where some words for “small”, “laugh” tend to have high vowels like /i/ and words for “large”, “scary” sometimes have low vowels like/a/.
Then add repetition on high pitch and you sound happy, excited, aroused, action! e.g. in a discussion someone understands a point and has another great idea: “yea yea yea yea yea ” on a high pitch. Or seeing the dog about to steal you sandwich from the counter: “no no no no no” on low or normal pitch and sometimes with rough voice. NOT in high pitch.
I also saw a discussion on music where high pitch fast repetition = excited, happy, and of course funeral marches tend to have long drawn out repetitive low pitches.
All this is universal of course, it applies to all mammals. SO of course I use this in training, I found all this many many years ago, and have used it in dog training ever since. Do not stand there and yell “come” when you want your dog to come to you, instead use high pitch “pup pup pup pup’, or better yet, keep quiet and use hand clapping or shake a box of tic-tacs. THAT sounds makes it infinitely easier for the dog to understand what you mean. Add restraint and you get an explosive fast recall. And as Trisha points out, “staaaaaaaaaaay – gooooooood” makes the dog understand you. And for :Let’s go, tapping the leg close to the dog is alot more efficient than a verbal “heel” or “walkies”. Your voice is up here, the dog is down there, and the sharp “ratatata” tapping on the leg is alot closer to the dog. Etc etc.
So think about it, do not be a dull human, do what the dog understands best!!!
mona
Terrie says
I definitely think quick repeats can be very useful, when you want your dog to be interested in you, not everything else. I’m cursed with a very smart dog. The kind of dog who, when she does something “wrong” in training, you have to stop “Is it because she doesn’t know what to do? Or does she just not care?” Those quick, high-pitched repeats help keep her interested and focused on me and not wandering off to do her own thing. It tells her “Hey, something interesting and exciting is going on here!”
Katherine S. says
I am a fairly new trainer and this was one of the first things I noticed about the people I work with. If something doesn’t work in the first second or two, the human defaults to more words, not only to the dog, but to me as well, cluttering their mind and the dog’s! Along the same lines, I have begun to encourage my clients to limit themselves to no words for a very small chunks of time and see how their perception of the dog’s experience can be augmented. Has been very interesting to see how not only their awareness of the dog is enhanced but also of themselves. I know the science isn’t there yet, but I am constantly amazed at how a person’s energy is a huge factor in interactions. I have begun to ask my clients to be more aware of this as well, it helps to be silent while doing this!
I do have one question and I hope it is appropriate to ask here. I have been reading this blog for good while now and have come to respect and appreciate the tone of converstation and the level of knowledge, so I thought I might get some good information. I have decided to begin a dog training certifacation program. I am extremely interested in being a part scientific understandings of animal behavior being diffused in my area which is, unfortunately, heavily steeped in “showing the dog who is the boss”. I have narrowed my options to the Ethology Institute Cambridge and the Academy for Dog Trainers. Based on their sites they seem to offer a thorough grounding in science, but I can find no real reference to them outside themselves (maybe this should be a red flag). I am open to other choices, but I get overwhelmed.
I am wondering if anyone has suggestions, experiences, or knows “the word on the street” about different programs. I know creditation is becoming more and more important, but I want to make sure I do it right!
Wendy Carroll says
It may amuse you to know that when I said yes to that cute, little puppy looking for a home (champagne and white kelpie/border collie cross) I freaked out about how little I knew about dogs. Went to my local library and borrowed The Other End of the Leash which was interesting, very informative and also very tasty. At least my puppy thought so. She chewed the corner off it so I had to fess up to the librarian and buy it. Luckily it’s still entirely readable.
Laura says
I spent two hours with an instructor from my school working with Seamus last Friday. When I go to the pet store to get his food, or some roasted duck feet cause they’re the equivalent of chocolate to him, he, understandably, loses his head. He can’t even work affectively in there and I kind of need him to, :).
We started outside of the store, doing some healing practice walking passed the doors and clicking and treating each time he maintained his focus on me or chose to look at me instead of the doors. Some points, he would get stuck at looking at the doors, or the instructor who was squatting on the ground, shaking a bag of treats. When he was stuck like that I said his name in a high, chirpy voice to get his attention, but the rest of the time, I used long, slow Gooood boooys because the objective was to keep his excitement at a low level. I find, especially for me, that sound is very important and I use it a lot with my dogs. When he’s actively working, guiding me, I keep my voice low and calm, unless it’s the initial command of Forward. I usually say that in a more excited voice so that he leads out affectively. I too, find myself repeating cues such as wait, or stay, usually when I’ve got my hands full and I’m trying to put him in a car. It goes like this. “wait… good boy good wait… good boy.” I know exactly where it comes from. My voice is calm and so am I, mostly, but there is a part of my brain thinking, “Please don’t jump into the car. My hands are full and one of them is holding a very hot cup of coffee. Please stay there.” As others have said, it’s my lack of trust in my training that he’ll stay where he is and guess what? He’s stayed each time. Still, I also, don’t think repeating this cue, wait or stay, is an especial problem. For me, I see it as a reminder to him to stay where he is and I’m also praising him while I do it. For other commands, such as sit or come, I don’t repeat those. I think it’s contextual. If I have to repeat sit, he’s clearly distracted by something, but wait is another thing entirely. Just my two cents and at M, yes, it’s great when they check themselves. My first guide dog, “blew a curbe,” which is to say he didn’t stop at it’s edge when we were first working. He immediately corrected himself and stepped back up onto it. I didn’t have to do anything to rework it. He was such a great dog for a first-time handler. 🙂
Nancy says
I was walking with my current work in progress reflecting on this blog. I was feeling pretty good that I had worked hard on the one time part when I trained with my first dog but thought about how I needed to work on the long and slow. At the same moment Brody and I both noticed the dead ground squirrel in the road and what do I hear myself say but “leave it, leave it, leave it” Maybe Brody is not the work in progress.
Kelly Schlesinger says
Following up on Nancy’s comments about repeating “Leave it” when encountering a dead squirrel. My dog Tag pulled a mummified squirrel out of the bushes on a walk and I couldn’t even get out “leave it.” I was more of the “aah, aah, yuk, yuk, oh no!!!” dog handler. Luckily for me he dropped it and looked at me like I totally didn’t get how wonderful it was.
Trisha says
Kelly: Did you have to write your comment just when I was taking a sip of liquid? Now the computer screen has water drops all over it. I’m quite literate in “Aah, aah, yuk, uck!” and have used it myself on multiple occasions. Just saying.
Lacey says
@Kelly and Trish:
Reminds me of the time when I was taking a tiny, timid new foster (Pom mix) out for her first walk with my two dogs. She found a half mouse, and not like what my two
would have tried, brought it to me. I struggled out a “Good Girl!” and a smile – both desperately fake, I know – and managed to take it from her.
Kelly Schlesinger says
Trish,
You made my day – I have laughed out loud at so many things you have written it’s great to know that I can return the favor.
lin says
One of my favorite books (other than yours) is “Found Dogs,” which has interviews with people about their adopted dogs. In one, a young man talks about how he had a hard time with his dog until they took her to a trainer who spoke to the dogs in Japanese, “and Donna-Carrie seemed to understand every word. Now we use Japanese words for sit, stay, come and other commands. I guess we were not speaking her language, though why her language should be Japanese I don’t know.” I wonder if people don’t repeat commands when it’s not in a language they are not familiar with.