Years ago, I took care of a gooey-sweet adolescent Border collie, (Tilly, I’ll call her) who flattened her ears and folded like a bird’s wing every time you said her name. She was responsive and polite, and the other dogs seemed to like her as much as I did. It was especially rainy when she visited, so I appreciated that she never objected to endless paw wiping and toweling off, not to mention body checks for ticks and dental inspections. One morning I saw that she had grabbed something from the leaf litter in the woods, the kind of “something” you figure would be better off melding its way into the soil rather than ending up in the stomach of even the hardiest of dogs. I couldn’t tell what it was, but it looked well on its way to rotting itself into organic mush. Probably not the best snack for a dog to eat. I didn’t think twice about reaching toward her mouth to extract her woodland treasure, given how deferential Tilly was to both me and the other dogs. At least, not until I saw her body go stiff and her eyes go hard as the quietest of growls floated into the misty, spring air.
Uh oh. That’s the posture that behaviorists, trainers and owners of resource guarding dogs know well, (or learn fast), and it immediately sends the primitive part of your brain into Alert Mode. I always picture some version of a submarine’s warning signal blaring: UH ooooGA! UH ooooga! as the captain yells DIVE! DIVE! to the first mate. It’s a relatively common posture in the world of dogs, and it’s message is clear: “This is Mine. Attempts To Take It Away Will Be Met With Force.” Common although it might be, what do we know about its origins, and how should we handle it when it happens?
DEFINING THE TERM First, I should be clear about what I mean by “resource guarding” (RG, also known as “possessive aggression”). I define “resource guarding” as behavior that discourages another to take, or get too close to, an object or valued area in a dog’s possession. Usually this refers to food, treasured toys or sleeping areas, but I’d argue that some dogs guard their humans as if they were the best bone in the house. RG can range from a quiet head turn to a deafening growl, forward charge or an actual bite.
[Note: If you are primarily interested in how to treat or prevent RG, skip to the bottom of the post. I’m beginning with a discussion of more theoretical interest.]
(Someone asked a related, and great question: Should we include “territorial aggression” into the category of “resource guarding”? Hummmm. On the one hand I’d say No, in part because of my dislike of the term “terr’l aggression,” since so often it is used to describe agonistic displays from dogs who are not actually aggressive but are afraid of strangers. Given that neophobia is a very different motivation than a desire to possess something, much of what is called territorial aggression may have little to do with possessiveness. On the other hand, I’ve worked with several dogs who showed absolutely no sign of fear when I approached the house, but signaled what I interpreted as “You might want to rethink coming any closer to my den.” Thus, I’ll use my standard answer to all good but complicated questions: “It depends.”) By the way, Lee Niel and Jacquelyn Jacobs, in the Department of Population Medicine at the Ontario Veterinary College, University of Guelph, are currently doing research on “possession aggression/resource guarding,” which included asking a number of behaviorists their definition and what term they most often use. Stay tuned, I look forward to seeing their results when they come out.
WHEN IS IT A PROBLEM? Between Dogs: It is perfectly reasonable for one dog to signal another that his chew bone is HIS chew bone, thank you very much. Appropriate signals are head turns, stares and, depending on a host of other factors, a quiet growl. Appropriate responses are immediate withdrawals or strategic (and often brilliant) attempts by an item-less dog to worm her way into the others good graces. (Not to mention the famous distraction technique of Einsteinian dogs: BARK BARK BARK BARK!!! says the dog who wants the chew bone, vigorously vocalizing at the front window. Dog with bone drops it on the way to join in the barking, while Einstein Dog circles back and gets the bone.) Every owner has to decide what is acceptable in their own household; my criteria are quiet warnings like head turns or stares are acceptable, anything else is discouraged.
Between a dog and a person: This again is very much up to the owner, but I’ll go on record as saying that, in general, I expect every one of my dogs to let me take anything away from them without protest. Caveats: First, I am very careful not to abuse that right. I work hard to train my dogs to drop things on cue so that I am not taking something out of their mouth by force. Second, there are exceptions: Tootsie grabbed a dropped metal twist tie and ran off to swallow it a few days after she came to the farm. You’d better believe I swooped in like a falcon and took it out of her mouth. On the other hand, before Tulip my sheep-guarding Great Pyrenees died, she would occasionally find the body of a small mammal or bird in the woods or pasture. I made an executive decision that if she was in charge of protecting my flock from coyotes and stray dogs, she could be in charge of any treasures she could find in the woods or pastures. Not so in the house however. The two of us seemed to come to that agreement easily and with clarity. (But I had to teach her to be polite if she had a treasure and was approached by another dog: Stay tuned for the blog on how I did it some time later in spring or early summer.)
CAUSES OF RESOURCE GUARDING: That’s easy to answer: We don’t know. Seriously, we really, really don’t know. Does growing up in a large litter and having to fight for food make a difference? Could there be a genetic predisposition to resource guarding? Katie Martz and I could find nothing in our searches, so I emailed a list of Certified Applied Animal Behaviorists to ask if there is any research on genetic or environmental factors related to RG, and and there simply doesn’t appear to be anything out there on this specific topic. However, PhD behavior-geneticist Steven Zawistoski and PhD psychologist John C. Wright reminded me of some of literature that might relate in some way. Remember the early behavioral genetics studies done at the Jackson Laboratory by Scott and Fuller? Steve and John directed me to some of the early papers that might relate. Pawlowski & Scott (1956) did some of the early work on priority access to a valued item (which is the correct definition of “dominance,” by the way) among 4 breeds (Basenjis, Beagles, Wire-Haired Fox Terriers and American Cocker Spaniels) and summarized their results: “It is concluded that these differences are the result of genetic inheritance, which probably acts through physiological mechanisms which affect the threshold of stimulation.’ Of course, dominating access to a bone is not exactly the same as guarding it, but it includes it, because some dogs maintained ownership of the bone by doing what we define as RG.
More recently, Liinamo et al (2007), looked at genetic variation in “aggression-related traits in Golden Retrievers in the Netherlands, asking if owners saw “aggressive” behavior in a variety of contexts. Those related to RG were family members either approaching or removing a dog’s food, or removing a dog’s toy. The context of approaching or removing food had high “heritability” factors (.94 and .95) which does not mean that the behavior is “mostly genetic,” but means that there is a large amount of genetic variation related to the trait, and thus one could begin a selection process of selecting for or against a particular trait. (I always have to stop and take a breath when interpreting the term “heritability,” because a trait like “herding” in Border collies would show a low heritability, it being pervasive in BCs, and thus showing low genetic variability. Make sense? (Steve Z explained to me that he considers this term the genetic equivalent of the term “positive reinforcement,” because it means the opposite of what one might think.)
I would argue, based on the little research we have and my own experiences with hundreds of RG cases (1,000’s?), that there is a genetic component to the behavior. I’ve worked with litters of 11 dogs in which the biggest and strongest (and first to get to the nipple) pup became the RG dog very early in life. On the other hand, there is a great deal of research on a variety of species that reminds us that experience plays a significant role in “winning” and “losing” competitions. (See Hsu & Wolf 1999 for example.) One early win makes subsequent wins more likely, and vice versa. I suspect that this is one of those complicated behaviors that has both a genetic and an experiential component, and that the resultant behavior is some kind of interaction between nature and nurture. But again, we really don’t know. Anyone looking for a PhD topic?)
TREATMENT FOR INTERSPECIFIC GUARDING: I’m going to talk here about resource guarding between dogs and people. Treating it between two dogs uses the same basic principles, but requires enough alterations in technique to deserve its own article. That said, the most effective technique for stopping a dog from guarding resources from human intervention is to change your dog’s internal response to anothers attempt to possess their “treasure.” That is why you are best off using Desensitizing and Classical Conditioning to teach your dog to love it when you approach and reach toward an object. In other words, in this case you are not training your dog to respond to a cue, but conditioning an internal response to someone approaching something that they cherish.
Before going any further, stop here an contact a behaviorist or progressive trainer who understands how to use classical conditioning if your dog has ever put you at risk of being seriously injured. You’d call an electrician if you thought your wiring was unsafe in your house, wouldn’t you? Meanwhile, or if your dog is threatening but not dangerous, follow the steps outlined below.
STEP ONE: Be an armchair ethologist by thoughtfully and specifically writing down what objects your dog guards, what your dog does to cause you to say she is guarding, and how close you need to be to see any sign of guarding. Here’s an example:
Objects: Chew bone, stuffed Kong, favorite stuffed toy in the shape of a deranged dinosaur.
Behavior & Distance: My dog first stops chewing or eating, and stands motionless if I get within 4-5 feet of her while she is chewing on her Kong. If I move to within 2-3 feet, her body tenses and her mouth closes. If I walk right up to her and reach toward the object, she will growl.
STEP TWO: Find something your dog likes even better than what she guards. Usually it will be some form of meat, but every dog is different. Be sure to experiment–every trainer or behaviorist has seen X,000 numbers of people who swear their dog “doesn’t care about food” until we get out our super stash of cooked chicken or freeze-dried liver and get their dog turning somersaults for it. Food is ideal because you can have it on hand and chop it up into pieces that allow you to create lots of reinforcement.
STEP THREE: Stocked with lots of treats, set up a situation in which your dog would guard. In the example above, give your dog a stuffed Kong, leave the room and re-enter with a handful of cooked chicken. Stop WELL BEFORE you would predict a reaction (any reaction) from your dog. In the example above, that would be at about 7-8 feet away. Toss a piece of chicken so that it lands right beside your dog’s mouth. (If you are like me, and flunked softball in school, just toss another one if you miss.). Wait for your dog to eat it up, and toss another piece. Repeat once or twice, then leave the room. If your dog leaves the Kong and comes over to you for more, look up at the ceiling and ignore her. You want her to learn that food only comes out of the sky if she is eating and you are standing nearby.
STEP FOUR: After a few sessions of this, start where you began in the last session, but don’t toss any food until you walk forward one step closer, no more. Toss chicken and withdraw one step. Walk forward one forward again, toss a treat and then WALK AWAY. You want your dog to think “NO! Don’t walk away!!” If, however, your dog reacts by stiffening, make a mental note to start farther back or to only approach in half steps. You can either stop there, or leave the room and re-enter it, repeating Step Four one or two times.
STEP FIVE: Gradually, ever so gradually, decrease the distance between you and your dog. Walk to within 5 feet in one session, then 4 in the next. Go back to just 5 feet for 2 sessions, then go to 4 and possibly 3 IF the dog is responding well. “Responding well” means that your dog is switching from “Oh No! She’s going to take my bone away” to “Goody! Here she comes! Whenever I have a chew bone and she comes close to it I get something better! How cool is that????” That means your dog’s body is loose and not stiff. She does not start chewing frantically as you approach. Her mouth is open and she looks as if she is happily anticipating your approach.
What if she leaves the bone and come to me? Well, good girl Fidette, that means you’ve stopped guarding the bone in search of something better. Again, simply ignore her and wait for her to return to her bone. It might take awhile for some dogs, but if you look away (this part is important) she will eventually give up and go back to her Kong or dinner bowl.
STEP SIX: Once you can approach your dog and stand right beside her, begin skipping the food toss until you are a few strides away, and start classically conditioning a reach toward the object. Keep in mind that you are working on re-wiring her brain so that she forms a new association between your actions and how she feels about them. Walking toward her is a different action than reaching toward her, so you need to think of it as a different category. (Understanding the distinction between each action you make is perhaps the most important aspect of being able to use classical conditioning to turn around a behavior, and it is not something we do naturally without training ourselves to be expert observers and thoughtful analysts of behavior.) First, bend toward the food or toy, drop a treat and then straighten up. Do this several times, or as often as necessary for your dog to remain relaxed. Remember: your dog drives the system here, not an idea you have in your head for how long this should take. Gradually move your arm and hand closer and closer to the food or object, eventually taking it away and giving your dog something wonderful in return. I once convinced a head-strong and very RG’y dog to give me the dead bird she had in her mouth, and when she did, I gave it back to her. The people watching were appalled, but that’s what she wanted more than anything in the world, and she trusted me ever after.
STEP SEVEN: Keep it up. Forever. Not every day, or even every week, but at least every month or so you should remind your dog why it is in his or her best interests to let you take anything away.
PREVENTION: That’s easy–just follow the step above, but you don’t have to go as slowly as you would if you were trying to turn around an established behavior. Willie and Tootsie both love it when I pick up their bowls, because it means they are getting something even better. Neither have ever even suggested a modicum of RG’g, which is exactly why I continue to remind them how fun it is to let me take things away from them!
OPERANT CONDITIONING?: One last comment–there is a role for operant conditioning here, which is to teach dogs to “Leave It” or “Drop It” (those are different in the mind of a dog I suspect: in one case the dog is focused on something, in another he or she has it in his or her mouth, and possession is the law in canid society.)
MEANWHILE back on the farm: Spring has sprung! Although today it is cool and rainy, it’s been absolutely glorious for a few days. (My sympathies to those in Minnesota and northern Wisconsin who got over a foot of snow yesterday. Not fair, not fair at all!) The lambs are finally settling in, all 17 of them. We have one orphan (Ralphie, rejected by his mother) and 4 other lambs who need supplemental feeding. Feedings occur 4 times a day (down from 8, whew!) and take about a half hour total to get the milk ready and the lambs fed. The ewes are getting a mix of fresh, spring grass, alfalfa hay and a corn/oat mix and so should be making lots of protein-rich milk for their babies. (Would someone tell momma Buttercup that bawling at us at 120 decibels every time she hears our voice will NOT result in any more food? Not to mention that there are sheep starving in China….)
The lambs are now old enough that Willie can help me move the flock around, and we’ve gotten up the portable, electric fences so that we can do controlled grazing all summer. We are re-seeding one third of the pasture, it suffering from the drought last year, and will have to keep the sheep off of that for two months or so once it is seeded. Meanwhile, the daffodils are sun-shining their blooms all over the yard, and the crocus are starting to fade. Here are some now, along with the first bee I saw the spring:
Amber @ Pooch and Puddy says
Oh goodie, I can’t wait to read the dog/dog guarding article. Would dog/cat guarding (Or even cat/cat guarding) training function the same way? My dog is a little angel with people, but she guards her crate and bowls about 90% of the time and her toys and bed about 50% of the time from our three cats. One cat guards her window box from the kitten, and the other cat guards his food from everyone. I’d really like harmony at least 90% of the time in my household!
Sharon Woolman says
I’m confident that my girl BC Liz resource guards me :c(. I will look forward to any future blog you write on that issue!
Aliesha says
Thank you, thank you, thank you! This was so needed! I am also glad to hear you have dried out up there!
Jen says
Elka happily lets us in her mouth, gives us things, takes things from us, etc. “Leave it”, “drop it”, “bring it here”, and “in my hand” are things we’ve worked with her on very much. I knew she was going to be glued to me even as I made dinner, and never wanted to have to race the dog to a dropped knife or something on the floor. One of my proudest moments was when she was at the end of the long line at the park, and picked up a Mystery Object. I said “drop it” and recalled her, both of which she did promptly, and for reward got to shove her face in the treat bag. Then I moseyed over to see what it was….a freshly made turkey sandwich!
For some reason, she’s never even given dead squirrels on our walks a second glance, so I’ve never had to confront the carrion problem.
So, what did you end up doing with Tilley?
Beth with the Corgis says
Reading your post reminds me that I need to go back and do refresher training, because Jack does not growl, but DOES stop chewing and stare at the floor, if I approach while he has a certain one or two very highly valued items.
How about a dog who starts eating faster if you approach the bowl? That would be Maddie. She has never resource guarded anything that I have seen, but she does seem to pick up the already-fast pace of her eating if she thinks I am approaching.
The one area that I don’t know how to handle is when Jack has something he highly values (once a found glove that he thought of as a toy, once a brand new toy he’d just gotten) and another dog is in the vicinity trying to steal it. On the first occasion he found a lost glove and was playing with it like a stuffed toy. We were outside. Another dog (who he knows well and gets along with) came nosing over at the glove. He stiffened, growled slightly, and turned away. The other dog ignored his very clear “back off” message and came around again. Fearing a fight, I stupidly went to retrieve the glove and got a lip-curling snarl as a response (it bears mentioning that minus the presence of a thieving dog, I can take any toy from Jack at any time and he gives it up happily, because he thinks we will play).
In retrospect I should have tried to control the loose dog and get her away from the situation and safely contained before retrieving the found object from Jack. My inclination is that there are so many variables to that situation that it is perhaps difficult to train around, but I also see where it could lead to a dangerous mix and someone getting charged (I doubt he’d bite, but never say never) if the wrong mix of circumstances came about (say a found chicken bone with other dogs around loose). It seems that he is initially guarding from the other dog, but then transfers that guarding if a human intervenes. Indeed, it is impossible for me to say if the snarl was even directed at me, or if he saw me taking the glove and was warning the other dog that she had better not try to steal it; the other dog was right behind me.
Anissa says
Very interesting! I wish I’d known more when I first acquired my RG dogs, but we made out all right.
I had a GSD who was extremely protective of his food regarding other dogs. He had to be fed in a separate room down the hall, with both the room door and the hall door closed, because with just one closed door, if he heard another dog moving around he would attack the door. Luckily he never attempted to guard anything from me. I had carte blanche to take anything I wanted out of his mouth.
I currently have a Beagle who was very RG’y when I first got her – as a sickly, underweight 7 wk old pup from a shelter. Now SHE would bite me. She was small enough that she couldn’t do any damage, so I hand-fed her every meal for weeks and petted her while she ate until a hand approaching at mealtime made her tail wag. I still periodically check her, even seven years later, by petting her and dropping treats into her bowl while she eats.
Beth with the Corgis says
Trisha, I am trying very hard to get my head around “heritability” and have read a few (confusing) articles online just now. I am hoping you can take a minute to at least tell me if I’m on the right track.
It seems that “heritability” means the extent to which differences can be attributed to genetic variation.
So when you say that heritability of herding behavior in Border Collies is low, I am assuming that is because most Border Collies carry the same herding genes, and so the behavior is ubiquitous and therefore not highly heritable, even though herding behavior itself clearly is inherited.
And if my line of thinking is correct, then could I fairly say that if we are talking about domestic dogs as a total group, that heritability is HIGH because there is wide variability in dogdom in general in the frequency that the herding genes are carried? (low in Beagles, say, high in Border Collies, higher in Corgis than in Beagles but not as high as in Border Collies).
So heritability of herding behavior in Border Collies is low because they all carry the genes and the behavior is therefore very common.
And heritability of herding behavior in Beagles is low because none of them carry the genes and the behavior is almost non-existent.
But heritability of herding behavior in dogdom in general is high because genetic variation is a large part of the explanation as to why some dogs are herdy and others are not.
Is that at least sort of going down the right path? If not, you don’t have to explain it in more detail. Just say “Bzzz, wrong answer” and I’ll spend more time on it myself. 🙂
Gordon Edwards says
I thought this a good opportunity to relate an experience of mine. When my male Alaskan Malamute Atka was an adolescent, and I was a fledgling trainer-to-be, we were enrolled in a 2nd level class. The task at hand was teaching “Leave It”. It was set up where items of increasing value were laid out and dog and handler would pass relatively close (but not necessarily within grabbing distance for the dog). IF the dog expressed interest in the valuable item, the handler would repeat the cue as they moved by. A pretty standard set-up and exercise.
My wife was typically Atka’s handler in these classes. She would often use a head halter of some type to assist her. Atka was, especially for her, “a lot of dog” (as was frequently repeated by the Head Trainer of these classes, of which we had participated in several). Without revealing any background at this point, I’ll just relate the events. For this particular exercise, I was asked by my wife to be Atka’s handler. She felt I might do a better job as we were nearing the top of the “value” scale. The “valuable item” at this point was a fairly large beef bone. It was placed on the floor and we started walking past. As I mentioned earlier, Atka was wearing a Gentle Leader head halter at the time. As we passed, he did (as I would have expected) express a great deal of interest in the bone. I asked him to “leave it” as I “encouraged” him to do so with a fair amount of input to the head halter. This was my mistake and one I should have obviously known better than to commit, but did nonetheless. He immediately reacted. Atka is and has always been VERY vocal. His reaction generated a look of something akin to horror on the face of the Head Trainer accompanied by a very audible “OH MY!!”.
We moved on and the next pair of dog and handler moved in and so on. A bit later in the class, my wife was minding Atka as they awaited their next task and, to keep his attention away from the other dogs, etc., she had a marrow bone for him to chew on. The trainer exclaimed that she was “amazed” that he would allow us to give and take the marrow bone with such ease after seeing how he reacted during the “leave it” exercise.
It was now obvious that she immediately read that as a resource guarding issue, when I, in fact, knew (because I was intimately familiar with my dog and his behaviors) that it was not a RG issue at all, but one of restraint. From the time he was a weeks-old puppy, he had exhibited strong reactions to any form of restraint. It was the single biggest, and most difficult to overcome, behavioral issue that we faced with him. It took a LOT of time, effort, experts and patience…but we managed to work through it. And, has he has so often demonstrated throughout his life, it was Atka who deserved most of the credit for the success.
As a fledgling trainer-to-be, it was also an eye-opener for me to see this highly experienced and very respected trainer completely misinterpret what she saw. Of course, I now understand how easily that can happen based on the circumstances, the lack of background information, and a split-second observation. In fact, I would bet that 10 out of 10 trainers in that same situation would see it the same way. This was such an eye-opener that it stuck with me and provided a learning experience that has proven invaluable.
Gordon Edwards says
Oh yeah. I am one of those Wisconsinites mentioned who got over a foot of snow. 16 inches to be exact. On MAY 2nd. And now, as I look outside my window at those 16 inches of snow on the ground, (and after power has finally been restored after being out since yesterday morning), I see it has begun to rain…with the temperature of 32. Which means everything is now going to get a nice coating of ice. And the likelihood of the power going out again is increasing by the minute.
What was that about Spring having sprung?!?
Sue says
Having not gotten my dog until he was 6 months old, I’ve always wondered about the source of his guarding. Do you have any suggestions on working with a dog that happily gives up his kongs and chewies, but guards items that he steals from me? Sometimes it seems like a game to get my attention, but sometimes he is VERY serious about it.
Kitt says
Wow, that is some very useful information. (And I learned that one of my standard poodles is not the only Einstein out there! The other poodle will guard the bed , so if she wants to get on it, she barks out the window in the other room, then runs in and steals his spot when he gets up to investigate. Happily, neither is at all RG with people.)
Christine B says
This is a great article… I might be printing it out and using this technique on my younger pooch!
michelle says
I was wondering if there is an article out there to prevent a puppy, who is deaf from resource guarding from other dogs. I am fostering an ACD 11 weeks old and he is deaf and starting to guard toys and bits of food from the older dogs in the house. He will charge them and growl, and I want to nip it in the bud. I wish I could wait for your upcoming article
Mary K. says
Thanks so much for this interesting choice of topic. I have a dog that I have had since puppyhood who is delightful in everyway except one. He is a warm, sloppy puddle of soft goo unless he has a bully stick to chew on and then he turns into the spawn of Cujo. If you ever need an example of a dog’s eyes going “hard” his reaction to his treasure being taken away would provide a perfect visual. I say this jokingly, but it is something of a concern and one I have to carefully manage. I don’t really have alot of background on him to offer any theories as to why he exhibits this behavior and interstingly, he only RGs bully sticks although I strongly suspect he would probably do the same with any high value chew object. He loves his toys but he never guards them. He doesn’t ever guard his food dish. Other tasty treats seem to present no problem either. I guess I’m less concerned about the why and more concerned about the right approach to take when it happens.
I appreciate the treatment plan as well. I will start working on that right away. I suspect that I may have been handling in a less than ideal manner since I would “trade up” with a high value food reward but would do so by calling him away from the bully and then take the bully away when he was distracted. I don’t think I’ve really taught him anything by approaching it that way, have I?
Which leads me to question. In Step 3 I’m tossing treats and then leaving the room. What if I need to take the bully away from him? I usually don’t allow him to eat an entire bully at one time which is why I always “trade up.” Any suggestions on how to approach this would be greatly appreciated 🙂
keli says
Like what Beth mentioned, I’ve never had any guarding of anything, but have noticed my dog eat faster when I approach sometimes.
After hearing you on the radio tell your story about giving the dead animal back to your dog at your party I did the same thing. My previous dog use to catch rabbits and squirrels and it was a game of keep away for him. After hearing your story, and the next squirrel catch, I didn’t chase him, sat in a chair and just waited. After a couple of minutes he came by me, I told him to drop it, which he did, and I immediately told him to get it. After a couple of these reps he was dropping it in my hand (totally gross) and I would give it back to him. After only doing this once I never had a problem with him bringing his prize catch back to me. And every once in a while I did give it back to him.
Betsy says
I would say my dog, Walker a foxhound, guards the territory of the front window. He does not care about me approaching him when he has a treat or meal and he mostly ignores the 2 cats in the house. If he does pay them attention it is usually a friendly sniff. However, if 1 of them tries to sit in the front window ledge he aggressively chases them away (lots of growling and barking and going after them).
Mary K. says
By the way-just to clarify- my dog will let me take any object out of his mouth including “treasures” he has found on walks. It is amazing just how many rib and chicken bones one can find while out walking the neighborhood, especially on garbage day! I say yuck but my dog thinks he has won the canine lottery ;). Again, even these tasty tidbits present no problem when I remove them from his mouth. Why he is so possessive of a bully stick escapes me.
Kerry M. says
Thanks so much for writing this up. I definitely would love this for a thesis topic. Now I need to find a phd program that will have me!
Kat says
Finna’s resource guarding isn’t generalized to all people, she’ll happily give up anything to me or my children, but to my husband and I expect anyone she doesn’t know/trust. Initially she’d go into full resource guarding mode if my husband came within sight when she had a bone or other high value chew. We spent months where he’d come in sight, I’d walk over take her bone and give it to him so he could give it back to her. Bones are no longer an issue–although he isn’t going to be the one taking it from her only giving it back for a long time to come, because she still fears him as she hasn’t figured out how to predict what he’s going to do next, the man should play professional poker as he has no tells.
Finna still has resource guarding issues, including her territory and me, although I notice that as she becomes more mentally sound (less fearful, learning she can manage her own arousal levels, etc.) and a generally happier dog she resource guards less and less. It makes me really wonder about the underlying causes. Watching her there’s a distinct relation between her emotions and her resource guarding behavior. A stressful day with lots of upsets will result in more resource guarding than a relaxed day with no upsets.
Kat says
Arrgh, it should read “but not to my husband” etc. I need an edit button or to remember to always proofread carefully before I hit submit comment.
Michelle says
Rather off topic, but why don’t you have any Great Pyrenees anymore? My previous dog was a GP rescue, and I love hearing about how you trained and interacted with yours.
Trisha says
Ah, Michelle: Long story, but short version is that Tulip had several medical crisis in her last year of life and I was unable to carry her into the car to get her to the emergency room. It was truly awful, I felt so inadequate and terrified that she would die because I was simply too weak to pick up an 85 lb dog. I decided never to have a dog I couldn’t pick up again. But, truth is, although I don’t miss all the dog hair in the living room, I miss having a GP terribly. Right now a circle of daffodils are blooming over her grave, the tulips planted in the middle will bloom soon. When they do, I always remember laying her in the grave with the hundreds and hundreds of tulips that friends brought to her “good bye” party the day we put her down. Every single person who came independently decided to bring tulips, and we buried wrapped in a carpet of color. Love you Too Too, always, and miss you everyday.
Gordon Edwards says
Wow, Trisha. That is a very nice story about Tulip, short version and all. It also brings up a point that my wife and I have discussed at length on numerous occasions without coming up with a suitable plan. I guess, at this point, we have chosen to simply hope that we’re never actually faced with it. But, my wife has always had this fear (and, at times, it seems it is an almost paralyzing fear) that, if it came down to it, she would not be able to lift (or otherwise convey) Atka, a 130+ lb Alaskan Malamute, into either of the vehicles, to transport him to get help in the event of an emergency. Even our “small” Malamute, Eve, is ~80 lbs and quite possibly would present the same problem. But with Atka, it is a very real problem. He had a serious leg injury a little over 2 years ago that ultimately required 3 separate orthopedic surgeries. Immediately after the injury, it wasn’t necessary to seek emergency care, thankfully. Then we were able to arrange to have help when the time came to transport him. After his most recent surgery, he was still mostly “out” when we brought him home. It required him to be loaded onto a cart (which necessitated having numerous bodies to load him), wheeling him out to the car, then needing those same numerous bodies to transfer him from the cart to the back of the car. Living way out in the country, as we do, seeking any kind of help proves to be problematic, indeed. And, in an emergency situation, it is quite likely to lead to dire consequences. So again, it leaves us with few options other than the one we seem to have settled on, at least for now…hoping that we’re never actually faced with it.
Pike says
Thankfully, my two dogs do very little resource guarding.
Nevertheless, we have a Fair Trade Agreement in place:
All trades need to be done openly (yes, that includes throwing that stinky bone into the trash can under their watchful eyes after having handed over the trade item), the dogs need to be paid properly for releasing or sharing a priced possession and it needs to be done in a manner that especially my hound considers fair.
I swear, in the beginning the hound was counting the treats that went around between dogs, to make very sure she wouldn’t get less than anybody else. As it was more about getting her fair share and less about resource guarding, she quickly relaxed and learned to trust that, overall, she wouldn’t be betrayed.
Early on, the very skinny Pom would snap the moment she realized somebody approached her food dish. Since it seemed so out of character, I think that she felt deeply threatened that somebody would steal her food from her. To me, it appeared to be a learned behavior and that she had to defend her food from others – dogs, I assume – at her previous place.
It was not difficult to change that association: For health reasons, she gets a spoonful of Greek honey yoghurt for dessert and I started out giving it to her after she had finished her food. Then I decreased the time span between main course and dessert until they overlapped. Now, she almost always gets her dessert while she hasn’t quite finished – mostly because she eats so slowly – and any physical contact while eating just results into her shifting a little to the side to make room for the spoon with her beloved yoghurt.
SlimDoggy says
I’ve never experienced resource guarding with any of our dogs, but did with a foster we had a few years ago. RG with both humans and dogs. Unfortunately, we returned him to the rescue as our two senior dogs (one who was blind) were at risk. This is good advice and I can see how it can be overcome with time and patience. Our Jack will let me take most anything away – he actually will walk away from a bully stick if I come to take it. But road kill he finds on our walks…that’s another story. “Leave it” work is in heavy rotation in our training schedule!
em says
I have been very lucky never to have had to deal with resouce guarding, though I have seen ‘keep-away’ and ‘eat faster’ on a few occasions. Keep away seems to have a variety of motives, including a desire for play as well as a desire to hold the object, but all of my dogs have gotten the message pretty easily fairly early on–mama doesn’t play that–and have learned not to try to dodge me when they have something I want them to surrender.
I would expect a dog who feared the consequences of holding a prize claimed by a higher status animal or person to drop it immediately and move away (I’ve seen this, but mostly between dogs) . My quick eaters mostly seem to be coming from a more comfortable if still deferential emotional place –they would NEVER challenge me directly over the prize in their possession, but they are willing to press their luck a little when the stakes are high.
The body language I have seen in dogs who have done this reads to me like, “Oh s%#t, she’s coming, and I’m going to have to give this goody to her. I better swallow it now, because otherwise I’m gonna lose it. ”
I imagine it’s a similar instinct to the one that tells my dogs to eat the highest value item in their dish first (I never would have known this if I hadn’t started feeding raw, but both of my dogs will eat a dish of mixed food, (which they always finish all of) in predictable and consistent order according to how much they like the various components (eggs are probably highest value to Otis, Sandy’s favorite is chicken liver- both of which are high fat, high protein, and infrequently served ). Seems like perfectly logical behavior in a social predator to me- any number of things might interrupt a dog’s meal, up to and including fullness, so it makes sense to get the best portion of a meal safely into their bellies as quickly as possible.
Alison says
Bear is a resource guarder. His sister Matty, being the genius that she was, devised a way to get anything she wanted from him while in the house. Matty would go to the door and touch the doorknob with her nose so that it jiggled a bit. Bear would run to the door to investigate who was coming in only to be disappointed that no one was there. Meanwhile, Matty would help herself to his spot or the toy that he had.
Bear is a tad slow…it took him six years to figure out what was going on and then he started trying to trick Matty in the same way when he wanted her spot. She was smarter though and after the first couple times she just smiled at him.
Frances says
I’m feeling slightly chuffed that Poppy let me take a half rabbit away from her this morning … and slightly less chuffed that she had probably been sleeping with it on my bed for most of the night! (Tilly-cat runs midnight feasts for all the animals at this time of year – it took me ages to work out why their weight rocketed in late Spring…). After realising with my first dog how even the most amenable dog can feel the need to guard something of really high value I worked hard with Sophy and Poppy – lots of games of swapsies, adding to bowls, etc, etc, and innumerable sessions of turn taking. So much so that the cats observed, and now join in, all four animals sitting in a polite row for treats or a lick at the mixing bowl. We have the occasional snarl and scuffle over chews, but so far so good.
Something that interests me that you don’t mention is the anxiety generated by resource guarding, especially by what I think of as “dog in the manger” guarding. There are some foods Sophy is not keen on, while Poppy is a gannet who will gobble almost anything. But Sophy cannot walk away and leave the bowl to her – she has to guard it, because it is valuable food, no matter how little she wants to eat it. There is a palpable sense of relief when I remove the (sometimes literal) bone of contention, and she can flop down and snooze without worrying about it. I always think of it as something like the anxiety of driving a new and shiny car, and worrying about every possible pebble chip, or not being able to enjoy owning expensive jewellery for fear of losing it. (So perhaps it is a Good Thing that I can afford neither new cars or diamond rings, saving myself huge amounts of potential stress!)
KT says
Unfortunately my Shar Pei mix only RG’s when he finds something wonderfully dead and brings it home. I can finally get him to give it to me at the back door but not without some staring and head-turning. I usually give it back to him if it isn’t too bad just to make sure I keep his trust. The problem arises when he gets it into the house(I know..don’t let him bring it in!). NOTHING works then…not even the best food. So…kinda hard to train consistently since we don’t run across a lot of dead things to carry home. I’ve tried tossing food at him while still outside but all he wants to do it get whatever he has into the house so he ignores anything I toss. He’s not food or toy motivated so he’s a tough nut to crack sometimes.
Nic1 says
Trisha – thanks so much for such a fascinating read. I would seriously LOVE to take that PhD topic and run with it. *sigh*
There is a really nice demonstration by a behaviourist on you tube teaching a dog how to ‘drop’. It’s a CC technique – he says the word ‘drop’, and then follows by immediately throwing pieces of chicken on the floor which he then encourages the dog to eat by pointing towards the food. This gets the dog used to his hands being around the food and it’s mouth. It takes a lot of repetitions in different scenarios before you can build up to applying this with a prized object of course. But fundamentally, the dog will eventually associate ‘drop’ with chicken and will have such a strong history of reinforcement that dropping whatever he has in his mouth at the time will always be a good thing for him to do (provided you’ve kept the treats ‘high value’ during training I would have thought).
I love your example of giving the bird straight back to the dog after she has dropped it. I’ve used this tehnique with a lot of success too – with a hedgehog. I say ‘have it back!’ and treat it like a game. I’ve then managed to dig out a squeaky ball and become ultra enthused about us then playing fetch, and she has simply lost interest in the hedgehog. Trust is gained due to the lack of confrontation.
There are times of course where you may need to prise open your dog’s mouth in an emergency. But if you have an established and strong reinforcement history with her, using the training techniques you describe Trisha, then the dog has a lot to fall back on. I look at it like making small emergency withdrawals from your savings account! Operant conditioning rocks, but classical conditioning rules! It is such a powerful way to controlling the emotional life of our dogs for the better.
LisaH says
My male BC has RG’d me from other dogs, though initially it took me a bit to figure it out since it was pretty subtle behavior, at least to my novice eyes at that time. Java was no more than 2 years old and someone came over with a GSD pup that was about 7-8 months old. I wanted so badly to meet this beautiful dog but Java kept quietly moving back and forth between me and the pup so I could never get close enough to touch. He was not making any noise or showing teeth but then it dawned on me that he was very deliberately preventing this dog and me from interacting. Then he did it again, much more obviously, when I was visiting family and loving on my sister’s young female BC. Java snarled at Reese, in her face, for being in my lap, sitting on the floor. Now the situation with he and Lola (my other BC), who wants to be near or on me every waking moment, is that he knows I will ask her to back up when he is in my lap for attention, though sometimes she creeps in and tries to be part of the lovefest leading to a silent lip curl from him until I ask her to back up. She will then sit, pathetically, a foot away and stare mournfully at us. And burst into glee when invited back in! Otherwise, they get along well, and there is no other RGing of food, toys, beds, etc. In fact, Java will concede everything else to Lola. And I can greet other dogs now without any issues as at age 6 Java seems to know he will never be displaced as my number 1 :).
Beth with the Corgis says
What I find interesting is that while Jack will resource-guard food from other dogs (if he can move away with it, he does; if he can’t [food bowl] he has a very loud shout at the offender, so I manage the household in such a way that we rarely encounter these situations) he NEVER tries to steal any edible from another dog, or even the cat.
Maddie, who never resource guards, will try to steal food from other animals if she has half a chance (again, this is something I manage to minimize the risk of conflict).
Jack, however, will go right up to Maddie and take a toy from her mouth that she is actively playing with. If this happens, Maddie simply releases it, despite the fact that she is a tugger who would put a terrier to shame, and looks at ME and waggles her backend as if to say “I am toyless, give me a hand here.”
Bringing home two new squeaky toys always takes some clever management on my part to make sure Maddie gets her turn; Jack will take hers and lie on top of it so she can’t get it while he disembowels the other one.
As I mentioned in a comment on the previous blog, while he will resource-guard his OWN food from other dogs, if I let them lick a plate or bowl that belongs to the humans he will share side-by-side with Maddie without so much as an eye-roll or cranky ear.
He most definitely has a sense of ownership. If the people own the food, he has no right to guard it. If he owns the food, he does.
****************
em, Jack has such a strong sense of “highest valued food first” that he will weigh options. If he finds something in the woods, he will stop and ponder what I might have in my pocket and how it compares to what he found before deciding if he leaves it to return to me. Hot dogs or bacon trump anything, cheese trumps most things except cat poo, regular dog treats are not so special.
We once had company and I was putting out a veggie platter (this was before we had Maddie). I tossed him a carrot and almost immediately after, someone dropped a piece of cheese. He spit out the carrot, got the cheese, sniffed the floor to make sure there was no more, and then went back for the carrot.
The other morning I was getting cereal while my husband was making sandwiches for lunch. The dogs always get a few tossed pieces of cereal when we have breakfast. Maddie came and stood by me, but Jack went over to my husband, literally looked him up and down to see if the sandwich contained cheese (which he usually gets a piece of), saw that there was no cheese on that day, and then returned to me to wait for his cereal.
To me, that shows a very high level of reasoning skill: deciding whether to surrender something that is a known quantity or that you already have in your possession (without a conditioned “leave it” command) in order to check out the possibility of getting a bigger payday.
Tina says
Great topic. I can use all the help I can get. My dog, Freyja (5 yr), definitely resource guards me. I would not try to take a found treasure (food or carrion) away from her. I was hoping to get another dog for my daughter to train. (I have learned so much from training Freyja, she has affected my whole self in a good way, although is still a challenge). I think learning to care for and train a dog is great preparation for life, besides all the joy our dogs bring us.
Currently, I cannot imagine how to bring another dog into our house. I think heredity might be a factor. I believe from the circumstances of adoption at 7-8 weeks, Freyja was from a feral dog pack, or village dog, situation in the four corners area. It maybe we will just be a one dog house…I cannot approach another dog or vice versa when Freyja is near. Freyja is able to be around other dogs if I am not there.
Keep posting about resource guarding, esp. resource guarding of people.
Margaret McLaughlin says
I have the flip side of this problem with Nina, my 18mo Flat-Coat. Altho’ she is pushy in many ways (her favorite hobby is waiting outside the door to pounce on the other dogs & haul them around by their collars, & she tries to shove in between me & any other dog or cat, & oddly, will try to nudge the phone out of my hand) ANY of the other dogs or cats, 14wo Lab guide dog puppy included, can back her away from her food. I have to stand over her while she eats so that she gets her full ration, & she eats VERY sslloowwllly. I realize that this is a problem that people with serious RG dogs would love to have, but it is a problem none the less. I train with food, & I wish she valued it more, & chewed it faster, so we could get more reps in more quickly. Thoughts, anyone?
FYI, she has a perfect bite, & no dental problems.
Nic1 says
Has anyone had experience of ‘keep away’ developing into full blown RG? Is it really just RG behaviour but not extreme?
Trisha says
Beth with Corgis and Heritability: I think you’ve nailed the concept. The term was originally used to measure how easily a trait could be selected for, and selection is based on genetic variability. So yes, “the h2 heritability” in BC herding behavior is low, because almost all BCs carry that trait, and it would take a lot of generations to select it out. However, a trait like blue eyes would be easier to select, since there is much more variability in the breed, and if one only bred blue-eyed BCs you could end up with mostly blue-eyed BCs a lot faster than you could end up with BCs who had no interest in herding. I did laugh when Steve Z describe the term as the “positive punishment” of genetics, after I noted that the term appears to mean exactly the opposite of what people outside of the field thinks it means.
Daniel says
Great article, thank you! Very beautiful shot of the flowers and first spring bee!
Rose C says
Thanks Trisha for the comprehensive post on RG despite a tight routine with all the lambs.
Pike, I love how you worked your Pom so subtly and, as I like putting it, so ‘gracefully’. I found myself smiling as I read, ” Now . . . any physical contact while eating just results into her shifting a little to the side to make room for the spoon with her beloved yoghurt.” Everyone wins! 🙂
Since I got Dani as my second dog, she had always showed possessiveness towards new toys, and later with stuffed Kong and bully sticks. As a young pup, she had often run around with a toy as my older dog, Ludy, chases her for it. For Ludy it seemed like a chase game, but not for Dani who appeared to be saying, “This is mine, I got it and I’m keeping it.” Her body stiffer, tail upwards and wagging slower and with less amplitude, presenting her rump often to Ludy and by then, she would be more still with head turned sideways towards Ludy but not really looking at her. I had watched the two vigilantly since day one because the younger one had often displayed behaviors that could potentially end up as problems (I’m keeping in mind too that both are females and may not get along when they mature). At age 8 months, with a new toy in her mouth and them two doing the same chase, Dani suddenly turned around and went after Ludy snarling, growling, barking, and snap-biting. Soon after, she did the same with another dog in the park over a glove. In both instances, it was ‘game over’. However, simply making her know that fun is over didn’t really tell her what I wanted her to do (or, to do instead). Another approach I had done before was to take from Dani the bully stick she was growling Ludy about, gave it to Ludy as I let her watch Ludy chew it. That didn’t accomplish anything either as I probably simply tormented Dani making her watch Ludy enjoying the bully stick that she so desperately wanted.
I am learning that the aim is not just to control the dog’s reaction (which is really a misnomer because by the time we take action to control the dog’s reaction, the dog had already reacted to the trigger). I love that Trisha helps me understand that what we need to condition and change is the internal response of the dog to whatever triggers the behavior.
Mary K, I am not a dog professional so my suggestion is solely based on my experience. Maybe you can start ‘trading up’ a little sooner than when you really want your dog to stop with the bully stick. Say you want him to have only half the stick, start ‘trading up’ at 1/4 the stick to have an allowance so you can ‘trade up’ and keep giving the stick back to him quite a few times before it nears being half a stick consumed. Also, after a few ‘trade ups’, when your dog seem to be more ‘willing’ to trade the bully stick up, in addition to the high value food reward, ease and mix in a little diversional or activity reward that you know your dog really loves. As he gives up the bully stick ‘more readily’, lead him into the new activity and hopefully this changes his focus as well. It may not work for every dog but might be worth the try if you feel your dog will respond appropriately (or eventually) to the approach.
Kendra says
I’m so so happy I found your blog, it has been so informative and helpful!!
Shortly after I adopted my Border Collie I stupidly (so stupid in hindsight!) thought I’d introduce him to my hamster. I held her in my hands to let him sniff her… and in a flash, he had scooped her up in his mouth! I pried it open immediately and got her out (thankfully she was okay — I thought for sure that even though he hadn’t hurt her she would die of shock, fortunately she was absolutely fine, though shaken up). He did not object to me opening his mouth at all, thank goodness, he was a very good boy about it. Needless to say, they didn’t get to meet again after that!
Sometimes on walks he’ll find deer fur/carrion bits, and I’ll let him carry them (his “trophies”) until we reach the end of the path. He seems perfectly fine with this arrangement, though I’ve gotten a few judgmental looks by walker/joggers who pass us – but oh well, he’s happy!
Trisha says
Rose C, I thought your suggestions to Mary K were good ones. It does happen to all of us that sometimes you just have to take something away that is out of the treatment plan order. I don’t think it is a problem to toss treats away from the bully stick when you have to, as long as you work the treatment steps whenever you can. You can also try distracting him with a fake doorbell, or tell him it’s time to go on a walk, or get dinner. Be sure to follow up (open the door and look surprised there is no company, go on a very short walk, etc.. anything to get him to leave the bully stick by himself and go into another room where you can distract him and pick up the stick while he isn’t watching. Keep us posted!
Ellen Pepin says
I’m waiting to read how you deal with resource guarding between two dogs. Our older Shepherd/Rottweiler mix, and 20 pounds heavier than our Collie has a large problem with it when food is concerned. He thinks all food is his and he has a right to anything that falls on the floor or is in a dog food bowl. He has attacked my collie several times. Thanks to her 3 inch thick hair around her neck, she was not hurt, but she is frightened of him and will not even try to fight back. The ACAAB that we contacted, thought that the problem was best handled by management.
When it is time to eat, Dakota, the Shepherd mix is fed first in the kitchen. Tess, the collie, is kept in another room. She is not anxious to be near him at all. When it is her turn to eat, Dakota is kept out of the kitchen by a wooden gate. This is a bit of a pain but works well. Nancy, the behaviorist, also talked about training him to accept that he is not entitled to all the food. The management plan seemed to be easier.
In your sixth paragraph, you talked about a dog that will try to get another’s food by distraction. In this case it was barking at a window until the second dog went to see what why the first was barking and left the food for the first dog to go get. We had a Shepherd/Terrier that did that to us at dinner time. It was bark, bark, there is someone at the front door. When we got up to see who it was, the dog ran back to the table for some of our dinner. I have no idea how she figured that out.
Frances says
Interesting points about resource guarding people. Poppy would definitely do this to me, if I let her. She went through a phase when she would growl at the other animals if she was on my knee and they wanted to jump up too – and found herself calmly picked up and down on the floor. Now she will usually move over and make room (and gets lots of praise and extra back massaging for doing so). The chair is plenty big enough for all of us, so any grumbling gets short shrift – unless it is because one of the cats is getting too enthusiastic about kneading, and then it is the cat that is ejected!
I have found both dogs resent being unceremoniously shoved off seats, although they will move immediately if asked. Asking politely comes as second nature to me, but I have visitors with different ideas about the proper place of dogs who seem to find the concept difficult to grasp.
The concept of fairness is another fascinating one. I’m never sure how much I am projecting, but there do seem to be more problems if Poppy has a significantly bigger or better bone than Sophy (who is the smaller of the two), and I swear Sophy can keep count up to four or five when it comes to handing out treats. Sophy likes life to be predictable, she enforces the rules, and I cannot help but think she has a deeply embedded sense of what is fair and is mildly indignant at transgressions against it.
Nicola says
One of my dogs, the Tenterfield Terrier, only growls at the other dogs when she has eaten her fill and has food left over. When I approach and remove the food, she seems positively grateful – I am now guarding the resource, and it is no longer her responsibility. The other dogs still rush over to check she hasn’t split something, but now I keep them away so she can get away before the charge.
Angel says
I’m still reading through the comments, but a few thoughts before I lose them.
Is there any relationship between RG and dogs who eat very fast? Not that they eat faster upon approach towards their bowl, but that as soon as the bowl hits the floor (sometimes before) they dive in and eat rapidly, legs splayed on either side of the bowl as they crouch down to eat. I don’t think they’re resource guarding when they do this, but am curious if it could be maybe a precursor to RG or indicate that they may start at some point if circumstances are right…or wrong maybe is more accurate.
Also, if resource guarding is defined as discouraging another to take an item that is in your possession, where would the behavior of trying to take possession of an object that another has, or is perceived as having, fall? If I’m eating something in the living room, and one of the cats comes up to check it out, sniffing it, my dog will watch very closely and intently. He can’t get physically close to them because of the furniture set up, but sometimes he will try, jumping a little and putting his paws up on me or the ottoman while barking a few high pitched barks. Also while in a group setting with other off leash dogs, say another dog has picked up a little something off the floor, a piece of lint or a leaf, and you can tell he has something in his mouth, my dog will notice and become intensely interested in what he has and will rush over to the other dog to see what he has. If the item is still on the floor, my dog will rush in and try to take it, again sometimes with a few high pitched barks. I always intervene before anything else happens, so there has never been progression beyond that. But I’m interested in what this behavior is. I’ve wondered if it’s resource guarding, but it’s not an object he is in possession of at the time. I’d like to know what the behavior is, so I can learn how to handle it and work with my dog on it.
Rose C says
Nic1,
I think ‘keep away’ in itself is broadly a form of dog communication. It can be displayed without a ‘resource’ involved, maybe the dog didn’t want the other dog (or human) within its space. In my opinion, it may not necessarily be a mild form or the start for a resource guarding dog although a resource guarding dog may use these ‘keep away’ signals to communicate its intent.
Trisha,
What I really appreciate, aside from your humor and honesty to say from time to time “I don’t know the real answer to that”, is that you tell us the principles behind the training methods. I always prefer understanding the foundations and the basic principles of anything because for me, I need to know the ‘why’s’ of things so I can have a firm grip on the subject then work myself up into understanding other details. I thank you for sharing with us your experiences and your knowledge and insights on dogs and dog behavior. I know I have a better understanding of my own dogs (and dogs in general) because of what you have accomplished and done on behalf of the canine species.
The suggestions I made to Mary K was not intended to wander away from your treatment plan. I still meant to do the throwing of treats next to the dog, repeated many times as she comes closer to the dog until she is able to take the bully stick from the dog, repeatedly trade up the bully stick for her high value food reward but keep giving the bully stick back to the dog. My diversional/reward activity suggestion was more for the final taking away of the bully stick (and before the whole bully stick gets consumed 🙂 ). Instead of Mary K simply calling her dog away from the bully then taking it away when he is distracted, I thought that would be more like ending the exercise on a more positive note. Although looking back now, I think my suggestion sounds more like working a ‘Drop it’ and ‘Leave it’ cue instead of how to treat an RG behavior.
(Another thing I really appreciate with Trisha is that she never tells you that you are wrong. She will take something out of your ‘wrong’ answer and incorporate it into the ‘correct’ one. Everyone learns and everyone wins ! 🙂 Thanks, Trisha!
Beth with the Corgis says
Mary K, one answer to your situation might be to simply not give bully sticks. For a dog who only values one item intensely enough to guard it, sometimes avoiding the situation is easier than trading away from it. I know that Corgis are very frequently resource-guarders (which seems to point to the idea of its being genetic) and many multi-Corgi homes have found peace by simply not giving certain items at all.
If that is not something you want to do, besides the good suggestions above you might also “practice” with lower value items. I know that mine have some toys that they can’t keep because they’d destroy them, so every weekend morning we get out one or two of those high-valued toys and have a very vigorous game and then I announce “time to trade” when we are done. Maddie gives them up eagerly. Jack sometimes whines or groans or gives minor calming signals (a shake-off, a yawn) to indicate he really REALLY isn’t ready for the game to be over. But he always complies and we end with special dental chew sticks they don’t get on most days.
So perhaps you can start the “time to trade” game with something he likes but not so much (a tug toy or something that he doesn’t normally keep) and make the “trade” treat something special and elaborate (a scrambled egg or a spoonful of sardines) and after he already starts looking very excited at the phrase “time to trade” you can slowly graduate to the bully stick.
It’s not the same as the treatment plan above because it’s teaching the dog to surrender and walk away from, but if it’s JUST bully sticks that you need to get off him, sometimes management is easier than true counter-conditioning, especially if there aren’t tossable treats that he likes better than bully sticks.
Beth with the Corgis says
I left out that when I do “time to trade” I always very deliberately pick up the items in question in front of the dogs. Sneaking away valued toys is not a good thing in my house because Jack will spend a long time looking for the “lost” item. I do try to let them see me take away anything, whether it’s to put it back in my possession or to throw it out.
Mary K. says
Thanks to one and all for the great suggestions and information! It is one of just many reasons I love this website and blog! I will try the suggestions and see what happens.
Mary K. says
Also, Trisha- I loved your suggestion about using the doorbell as a distraction. My dog is unbelievably social with people so the doorbell works as a wonderful trigger to get him primed to greet and visit with people. It just reminds me that not all “rewards” have to be food based. So clever and can’t wait to try it out!
Nic1 says
Keep away – as a game very much involves an object from what i have observed. My dog doesn’t like doggy space invaders and will be quite obvious in her air snaps and muzzle punches given the opportunity! But this is aggressive behaviour. Depending on the dog, ‘keep away’ with a toy can appear like a play on guarding? Just some observations really but I could well be interpreting this incorrectly! One friend with a beagle thinks that this is her dog’s favourite game. He will give up the toy with a firm ‘leave’ command but seems to really love running off just as you approach him, wagging his tail when he has his squeaky duck. Perhaps it simply IS guarding but the type of guarding that dogs with more passive defence reflexes display? A terrier or a dog with active define responses may display more agonistic behaviour? But dogs do play around with predatory and potentially aggressive behavioural too when interacting with other dogs and playing with their toys. Hmmm…..is ‘play guarding’ at work too?
Nic1 says
Interesting that a few people remove the dog’s toys or items as if they are belonging to the owners. Perhaps dogs may be more likely to guard items that they value and are removed from their possession regularly? After all, given their cognitive ability, for all they know they may never see them again if you are removing them. They have no comprehension that they are going to get the toy or bully stick again tomorrow, for example. Wouldn’t removal from the environment potentially reinforce guarding? What do we know about dog’s ability to differentiate what is theirs and what is yours? Isn’t it simply a case of who has possession of the item in that moment?
I have found that if I leave a few prized balls casually laying around the house or garden, my dog is less likely to guard them. I also ensure that I have a plentiful stock of balls that are new items as these are ‘top trump’ items or super high value for training or trading. I am not sure that what I am doing is deemed correct or not but it does seem to keep her more relaxed around balls, and importantly, we are able to work together with her favourite toy and come to some understanding about the rules! But then, I haven’t really experienced full on RG with my dog, just some smouldering potential. I am sure if it was much more agonistic then it would be an entirely different scenario. Removing the items from the environment would perhaps be the most sensible way to manage it. After all, environmental management is about setting the dog up to succeed.
Rose C says
Nic1,
Very thought-provoking questions and comment. It’s true, we can only see situations from the human standpoint. I’m sure we can safely say that dogs see them way differently too, that is, from the canine standpoint.
I myself have removed items or avoided situations which I feel that my dog/s will likely react to in a non-optimal manner. I try to honor what I *think* are important to my dogs as dogs except if it could potentially harm them. But there are certain ‘unwanted’ behaviors that are not acceptable in the environment where domestic dogs now live. Example, RG. If a dog has full blown RG that causes threat or actual harm to others, the dog may have to be deemed ‘dangerous’ and may have to be put away. So I guess dogs with these ‘unwanted’ or ‘unacceptable’ behaviors need to be helped. If a dog guards just one particular item, it may be a good idea to just remove it from the dog’s environment. But often, if a dog guards one thing, there is a chance that it may guard another thing as well. Like mentioned, RG behavior could be both nature plus nurture. Maybe the bully stick is really irresistable but the dog itself would have to have the predisposition to display the RG behavior for it to actually RG the bully stick. In this case, just removing the item does not really teach the dog how to respond in an ‘acceptable’ manner when the bully stick is at hand. So I think certain behaviors can be managed by controlling the environment and certain behaviors we need to help the dog itself.
Beth with the Corgis says
Trisha, thanks so much for affirming that I understand heritability. It’s a bit counterintuitive. I had to read three different articles before it started clicking. Like most things, once it clicked it made sense.
Nic1, I used to leave all toys except rope tugs out for my dogs at all times (rope tugs have an ingestion risk so I have kept those hidden for some time).
But my Madison not only destroys, but consumes, too many toys. We were down to about 3 items we could have in the house, and Jack is a toy nut who was bored to death with just three toys. When Maddie managed to bite hunks off of (and swallow) a black Kong, I knew our options were down to almost none.
So what I do now is buy toys and keep them in a basket in the laundry room, for supervised play only. I have to keep the play sessions very short because while Jack wants to play, Maddie wants to lay down and take apart the toys, and can only be diverted to chase so many times. She can take apart most toys in a matter of minutes.
After having Jack lay in front of the laundry room door and “huff huff” for hours trying to get me to play with the special toys, I came up with the solution of only playing with them on weekend mornings. Since our routine is different on the weekends, this works because he has a clear set of signals to tell him when play is likely and can put it out of his mind the rest of the time. (Incidentally, I tried ignoring his reminder huffs to see how long my “no response” would take to extinguish the behavior. I gave up after 2 hours; he did not. Owning a drivey dog can sometimes be a challenge).
Having multiple dogs can increase the need for creative solutions; one dog’s needs are in direct conflict with another’s. While I agree that removing items might increase the risk for guarding behavior in some dogs, it is a safety necessity in our case. Our “special” toy collection includes chuck-it indoor, several sizes of rope tugs, a chase-it flirt pole, and hide-a-squirrel. We also keep outdoor toys like Frisbee and regular chuck-it there. And tennis balls, since both of mine rip the covers off of tennis balls in a matter of minutes (and Maddie then proceeds to eat the fuzz).
Rose C says
if I may add . . .
I think certain behaviors can be managed by controlling the environment, certain behaviors we need to help the dog itself, and for many cases, we need to work with both. The same way, some behavior training are meant to train dogs to be well-behaved, some are meant to keep them and others safe, and some are meant to keep handy in case of life-threatening situations.
Kat says
I offer the following story with no interpretation simply because it was fascinating to observe and because it, at least tangentially, relates to resource guarding.
Finna gets over stimulated with all the activity in the neighborhood on sunny days (in the Pacific Northwest we have so few of those) so today her outdoor time needed to be restricted to the large dog enclosure. Ranger and one cat also accompanied us. The cat is supposed to be indoors only but we occasionally let him have some time in the enclosure with the dogs. The enclosure is also where Ranger, by his choice, sleeps.
I’m in the enclosure hanging out with both dogs and a cat. The cat is rolling in the dirt, Finna is playing a low key game of fetch and Ranger is wishing the cat would do something interesting. After I called Ranger off a couple times when he tried to provoke the cat into running he gave up and laid down. After a moment he got up, looked at Finna with close attention, walked over to a corner and unearthed a chew. With an eye on Finna he walked pasted her, settled into a patch of grass and started chewing. Finna abandoned her ball, came to within a couple of feet and watched Ranger intently. Ranger flicked his eyes toward Finna several times then suddenly appeared distracted by the cat and jumped up to run to the cat (who hadn’t done anything he hadn’t been doing all along as far as I could see). As soon as Ranger went to the cat Finna hurried over and took possession of the chew. Ranger looked back and watched Finna for several seconds as she chewed. Ranger then went back to the place he’d unearthed the chew and dug up a bigger chew which he settled down and began to chew. He flicked glances at Finna at regular intervals then after several minutes reburied his chew. Seconds after he’d reburied it Finna began chasing bugs and Ranger took possession of the original chew which he continued to possess until we all went back inside. I had expected to leave Ranger in possession of his chew and take Finna and the cat inside but as soon as I leashed Finna and picked up the cat he abandoned his chew in favor of coming with us.
Kerry M. says
Trish & Gordon, I so feel your pain about big dogs with health issues. A couple of years ago, I had an older 85 lb dog who constantly worried me. Or more specifically, I was worried I’d let him down, because I can’t now and couldn’t then lift 85 lbs. I decided I wanted to max out at 65lbs for that piece of mind, even though my lack of lifting ability was fortunately a non-issue.
Gordon, if its possible, maybe draft up a plan of attack with your wife? Maybe something as simple as a list of a half dozen people to call in an emergency would help set her mind at ease. I wish that I had bothered to create some kind of plan because it was a major stressor for me even though I never talked about it.
Fox says
I curious about what the strategy would be for owner (or trainer) guarding. I’ve been working with a fellow trainer whose dog lunges at people if they get too close. The dog used to have other guarding issues but has responded very well to resource guarding prevention in terms of food and toy guarding. She also waits her turn (impatiently but work-ably) for affection which she shares with one other dog, two cats, and a small child…. But we still can’t seem to break into the owner guarding with strangers. Essentially, the dog (a Dutch Shepherd) needs to be trained separately on EACH new person that owner wants to be able to approach her. And it’s a long and time consuming task for each person. But if the dog is left with someone else and the owner goes away, the dog becomes very friendly towards everyone present.
I’m beginning to wonder if it’s actually some sort of owner/dog feedback loop that I’m just not picking up on… is that possible?
Nic1 says
Rose C – I think you are spot on. It really is a matter of setting the dog up to succeed. And each dog is different of course in how guarding manifests and it’s that which makes RG quite a challenging behaviour to treat and manage, I did neglect to think about multiple dog households actually when referring to leaving toys laying around. Beth summed that up nicely when referring to her dog’s behaviour around toys.
@Beth – have you tried Nina Ottosson toys for Maddie? They are pretty indestructible and come with lots of bits to take apart.
Sandy D. says
Wish I had this info several years ago when I had a resource guarder. Sadly, cancer took her to the bridge. This dog, W, resource guarded a bee. She growled at my other dog, R, when R looked at the bee. I taught W the “Bad Dog Retrieve”, to get some things away from her, like her food bowl. Once she finished eating, she would guard her bowl. I taught her to fetch it and trade it for a treat. Worked great, she even brought the kitty bowls (after she cleaned them out). 🙂 She learned to put toys in a basket that I was holding, so once all the toys were cleaned up from the room, it was safe for my other dogs to enter.
The steps you provided would have worked better.
JJ says
from the posting: re: “(Steve Z explained to me that he considers this term the genetic equivalent of the term “positive reinforcement,” because it means the opposite of what one might think.)”
Did you mean “positive punishment”? Because I think “positive reinforcement” makes sense, but that “positive punishment” sounds like an oxymoron until you understand the terms.
JJ says
This posting is simply awesome. I love how you give us lots of background to understand the issue as well as ideas for treating (and recommending a professional).
Here’s what I find fascinating about the subject: I interpret the whole idea of RG as being one of dogs having a clear sense of “mine”. Not just, “I like this and want this”. But a sense of “mine”. I don’t know that’s true. That’s just what I think.
The various reactions that dogs have to “resources” (possessions?) makes absolute sense. Here’s my analogy: Take my very favorite dessert. I’m eating it. If the waiter tries to take the dish away while I’m eating it, I’m going to object. Loudly. If the stranger at the table next to mine tries to take a bite, I might just stab her/him with a fork. If my hubby politely asks for a bit, I might get a bit tense and watch how big a bite he takes, (grin), but I’ll probably allow it. Probably.
All of that is SO, natural, SO understandable, that it seems like a very, very natural thing that we would have dogs who say “mine” and get upset – to varying levels – when someone tries to steal.
In humans, we (usually) try to teach young-uns how to Share. Some master the skill better than others. Some start out having an easier time than others. It only makes sense to me that dogs have the same range and responses. With that understanding, what is amazing to me is how often RG is *not* at a level that it is a problem in dogs. (Of course, I don’t really know the percentages…)
JJ says
So, here’s the other part of this topic that fascinates me.
You know how people are always trying to define how very special humans are? When I was young, it was “humans are the only creatures who use tools” Now we know that is not true. Etc. I like how Trisha has said (I’m paraphrasing) that what separates humans from other non-human animals is not a matter of “kind,” but of “degree.”
When I was in college, I had an economics professor who insisted that what separated humans from “animals” was trade. He said that nowhere in the animal kingdom do you see two animals who recognize. “This is mine. That is yours. I will give you this for that.”
With RG, I think we have the, “This is mine.” part covered. But what about the rest? Well, don’t we often talk about doing “trades” and “trading up” with our dogs for training purposes? Is it a “trade” only because that is convenient language to use or is it a trade in the sense that my professor meant? I don’t know.
For some reason, that professors assertion has stuck with me for many years. I still ponder it now and then. This posting and discussion brought it all back again.
Trisha says
Thanks JJ! I did indeed mean Pos Punishment. That’s what I get for writing in a hurry…
liz says
I think that “trade” in the way JJ mentions can be both casual usage, and, in some cases, in line with dogs having a concept of “this for that”. At least in my house my girl will try to ‘negotiate’ a trade with my boy for the stick or toy he’s playing with by grabbing her own and putting on a grand display of fun. I interpret it as her making a fuss like “oh my stick is the greatest,” only as soon as the boy comes to investigate, she leaves hers and grabs his. They swap happily. Although, she could just be seeking attention from him and care little of the stick in her mind. Interesting!
I’ve wondered if there are any other subtle visual signals besides the stiff body, hard eyes, mouth signals? I’ve come up empty handed in the search for studies, and having seen dogs react to even slight food bowl interference by going from “mouth in food eating/eyes down on food” to snapping in half a heartbeat, I’ve been long curious about the body language involved. I check tails, ears, and overall posture, but am not sure of any patterns. It seems a lot of dogs eat with ears relaxed, or back/flattened, and the latter can be an ambiguous position. Tails can be ambiguous too, since a gentle wag can be “oh happy food time,” or “I’m nervous.” Dogs eating with forward/alert ears, who sort of splay themselves around the bowl claiming space, and/or who have their weight shifted either far forward or back, give me the most concern (but they don’t necessarily act on the their food intensity either). I’m trying to see both the whole picture and the details, but nothing pops out as reliably predictive besides the stiff body, hard eye, and mouth signals that I wish more dogs would show if they are going to guard!
Fox says
I think you are right, JJ… about dogs understanding “This is mine. That is yours. I will give you this for that.” I think that’s why there is such a challenge involved in training a dog not to RG their owner. If there is a tight bond between them… what could you possibly offer the dog that has more value?
Kat says
@JJ, I have absolutely no doubt that Ranger understands trading. My first indication came about a week after we’d adopted him. He found my daughter’s school notebook and took it to her (it smelled like her it was hers is I assume how he decided to whom he should take it.) When she reached for it he growled softly and crouched over it in clear resource guarding pose. Since he was still new to the household I told her she’d need to give him something else to get her notebook back. She went to the kitchen and grabbed the first dog treat she found and offered him that. He sniffed it, crouched back over the notebook and looked pointedly back to the kitchen. She went back to the kitchen and brought him a higher value treat that he consented to trade for her notebook. He turned down a treat in front of his nose in favor of a potentially better one to come.
Another clear example was the time he brought my husband a piece of junk mail. Hubby told Ranger it was fine he could destroy that. Ranger looked surprised, abandoned the piece of junk mail and came back with a book for which my husband traded him a treat. Ranger acted as you would expect someone to act when told their trade good was worthless, he abandoned it and returned with something of greater value.
In the story I told above Ranger got the larger chew to himself by setting Finna up. She has been guilty on more than one occasion of taking something from Ranger because he doesn’t choose to contend for it. In the case above he controlled the larger chew entirely and managed to get most of the smaller chew as well.
Given a choice of two treats identical except in size Finna will always take the larger one. Ranger checks both treats and chooses one based on a logic that is not clear to me.
I find dogs endlessly fascinating.
Rose C says
Kat,
The incident with Ranger and Finna and the cat is fascinating indeed. These are the things that make me wonder what exactly goes on in the minds of these non-human animals. When I witness harmony (including some ‘compromises’) between animals, I am always reminded by the words of Mark Bekoff from an article in Bark magazine:
“The borders between ‘them’ and ‘us’ are murky and permeable, and the study of animal emotions helps inform the big question of just who we are. Another big question for which answers are revealed by studying animal passions is, ‘Can animals be moral beings?’ In my development of the phenomenon that I call ‘wild justice,’ I argue that they can. Many animals know right from wrong and live according to a moral code.”
I myself would put it as ‘the unseen and unspoken natural laws of the animal kingdom and of all living things’. And like you, I would not even attempt to interpret that. I am content to marvel at it and realize that our understanding of animals and the world that they operate in will always be limited to only how far our human comprehension can go. We will never experience their world nor fully understand it.
JJ,
I agree, I think the ‘trade up’ is similar to what your professor meant. Maybe not as much as how we humans weigh pros and cons before actually trading up, but is nevertheless done for similar reasons. I think it is basic to any animal (including us) to always attempt to make certain that it has what it needs to survive, be comfortable, and be satisfied. I think it falls under the ‘self-preservation’ concept. So with training, when the dog wants the treat that we have, it will do what we ask of it to do — and there are those dogs too who, when we just won’t hand out the treat, would sit, lie, high five on its own, as if telling us, “What do you really want? Is it this (sits)? How about this (lays down)? This (high fives)?” The dog is basically trying to ‘trade up’ with us. The same reason we take high power treats when we train them for recall. Don’t we notice sometimes they seem to hesitate as if weighing, ‘Should I run for that mudpit (or chase that squirrel) or should I come back to her? Hmmm? Oh why yes, she brought chicken today!’
With RG, I think it could partly be similar, at least how we attempt to treat it (the dog gets the high value food reward in favor of letting someone come close and not growl, snarl, or bite). But then, the other aspects of the treatment for RG as Trisha had shown above, doesn’t stop at ‘trading up’. To me, ‘trading up’ is more like an individual simply weighing, ‘What’s in it for me?’. More than just ‘trading up’, I think (and as mentioned) the ultimate goal of the treatment is changing the dog’s internal response to the trigger. I see it more like the dog learning to associate someone approaching or taking its food/toy away as something that is pleasant and ‘non-threatening’ — as opposed to plainly saying, ‘I’ll only let you do that if you will give me those’. So I guess it is partly ‘trading up’ but not entirely.
Dena Norton (Izzee's Mom) says
@Kat, your description of Ranger’s behavior certainly does sound like trading as I understand it. Or maybe buying and selling, with price to be determined by consensus!
Josh Lankford says
Thank you so much for your articles on inbreeding in dogs and genetic diversity. I grew up on a farm and always knew I would breed dogs someday, I used to crossbreed our chickens just to see what would happen. I have two female Dogue De Bordeauxs and I can’t help but notice they seem to need to go to the vet a lot more often than our “mutt” dogs did on the farm. Also, the more I research into what a top breeding program looks like the more it doesn’t sit well with my stomach. The more I read the more I just want to create good dogs that I would want myself and not necessarily dogs with papers. Starting to wish I would have minored in genetics/biology and not art I will continue to do my research. Thank you.
Beth with the Corgis says
Re: the Dutch Shepherd guarding his handler: many of the guarding breeds are specifically bred to naturally guard their handler. In fact, some of the temperament tests for certain working breeds specifically call for them to guard naturally, with no training.
I’m not saying it can’t be trained away from, just that it may be an uphill battle.
Beth with the Corgis says
Let’s remember that “trade” in the human sense involves reciprocity: I have something of value that you want, you have something of value that I want, we mutually decide that x is worth a certain proportion of y.
For dogs, I’m not sure it’s reciprocity so much as “What you have is better than what I have so I will drop what I have.”
Whenever I “trade” with my dogs, they would go right back and take what they gave up in a heartbeat if I let them. They have no sense that they granted ownership to me in return for what I gave them. It’s a more immediate “I’ll drop what I have because what you have is better, but if I can find a way to keep what I have as well then I will do that.”
It’s like a child giving up a tv program for the promise of an ice cream.
Human activities are not unique, per se, but they are definitely further along the scale. I have not seen in my own dogs or others an idea of trade in the way humans think of it.
Kat’s story of Ranger and Finna sounds like a very smart bit of trickery, which is clearly a higher thought process. Dogs absolutely value some things more than others. But they have a more hierarchical system. More organized crime than capitalism, if you will. Animals who lack rank will try to get their way by being obsequious or by tricking, but those who have the status simply take what they want, the exception being care of young puppies and some other rarer circumstances.
From what research I’ve seen, dogs do have a certain sense of fairness, but it’s not quite as evolved as monkeys, which is not as evolved as great apes, which is not as evolved as people. Here’s the overview:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=97944783
And the idea of trade as WE define it would seem to require the higher sense of fairness, the one that says “the bread is not worth as much as the sausage, so if he’s getting sausage and I’m getting bread for the same work, I’ll quit working.” The monkeys do this, the dogs don’t.
Nic1 says
The cognitive ability required to comprehend trading would require self awareness. I think it’s simply a matter of having something of a higher value than what the dog currently has in it’s possession. We could certainly interpret it as trading due to the action in involved, but the dog certainly wouldn’t. There has to be something in it for them, as dogs really are in it for themselves.
It’s like teaching a dog to leave or drop. It’s a lot easier when you offer them a stronger motivation than what is currently holding their attention in the environment or what is currently in their mouth. A lot of old school trainers would perhaps have the mentality that the dog should do something ‘because I say so!’
We know better of course – we have to make it worth their while to do the things we want them to do. It simply means we have to pay them to do things that they really have no interest in. Coming when called; not guarding toys or food; sitting when asked etc. these are things that are useful for us when managing our dogs and keeping everyone safe. They are utterly useless to them! I think reciprocity does come into it, but not that the dog comprehends that of course. We understand that it’s how mutually beneficial relationships work.
Rose C says
Nic1,
I agree with you. What we are really doing is using strategies and training techniques that go along with, rather than against, the natural tendencies and inclinations of dogs. Also, with regard to what you said: “There has to be something in it for them, as dogs really are in it for themselves.” I remember a quote in an article in dogster.com on some tips about understanding how dogs ‘think’ — “Dogs will, first and foremost, always choose what is convenient, what is comfortable, and what satisfies.” (also paraphrased). This quote has been stuck in my head since I read it. Very useful to keep in mind when training dogs.
Nic1 says
Rose C – great quote! Once you have an understanding of that, the dog is in a much better position. Training through behavioural understanding naturally creates a better bond too I feel.
JJ says
Thanks to *everyone* who replied with thoughts about trading. I was tickled to read those replies. Kat: your stories had my jaw dropping. Also, you are very good at describing events without interpretation. Nicely done. Fox, I loved reading your reply. Exactly.
For those who don’t think it is possible that dogs participate in trading similar to the way that humans do: I don’t believe that we have done nearly enough study to make this determination one way or another.
For those who think that because dogs are in it for themselves, that’s an indication that dogs don’t participate in trade, I would like to point out that all humans I know of participate in trade with the exact same motivations. When two kids participate in trading baseball cards, it is because each one is negotiating and trying to get something that makes them better off. When I buy something at the grocery store, I am giving the store something I value for something that I value more. The grocery store is doing the same thing. Each of us is looking out for ourselves – to the betterment of both. At least that is what happens when there is a good trade.
When we “trade” with our dogs, our dogs are trying to figure out what they can do to get what they want and they are often willing to give up something that they don’t value as much to get something better–even knowing that they will not get back what they give up. I’m not saying that is 100% indication that we have a human-style trade going on, but I haven’t heard or seen anything that indicates to me that we don’t have it going on either.
Sometimes I think it is all just semantics. Other times I think it is worth thinking about. Anyway, thanks again for everyone’s thoughts.
Beth with the Corgis says
JJ, trade in the human sense means something very different than what we are describing when we use operant conditioning to teach a dog to surrender something in exchange for food or a toy. I hope you are not implying that dogs engage in commerce? Conditioning is not the same thing as people mutually deciding that certain things are worth x amount of certain other things, and further that something abstract and valueless such as money can stand in for those things.
I agree more study would be interesting, but I did link to the study on fairness which is a close approximation. One dog will quit working if another dog is getting rewarded and he is not. But the dog will keep working if he gets bread and the other dog gets sausage, while monkeys will throw a fit and literally throw away their less-valuable payment if another monkey gets something better.
While they are certainly behaviors along a continuum, they are not really the same thing. My point was that while we clearly surrender title to something when we trade it away, and we recognize that if we then try to take it back without a new payment we are stealing, dogs will willingly take back the item they “traded” given any chance to do so, unless they are conditioned further using operant conditioning not to.
“Trade” in the human sense of commerce involves a large amount of moral processing, mathematical processing, etc that no studies I am aware of indicate dogs are able to partake in. If I trade my dog’s toy for a treat, he doesn’t think the toy is now mine and he no longer has a right to it. He drops the toy because he wants to eat the treat.
“When two kids participate in trading baseball cards, it is because each one is negotiating and trying to get something that makes them better off. ” That is very true, but that assumes a knowledge of what “better off” means and involves long-term planning and envisioning the future. It involves being able to assess your current state of affairs, and then put a specific value on what the new item will add to or subtract from your future state of affairs.
Now, I think my dogs are pretty darned smart, but I have trouble seeing anything that would cause me to feel they are engaging in some form of commerce. “Trade” is the word the humans come up with, in large part because it tends to be said in a happier voice and “leave it” lends itself to being stern. Since we want the dog to think of “trading” as a pleasant experience, we use a word that has a pleasant connotation in the mind of the human.
Beth with the Corgis says
Trisha, you mention that “leave it” and “drop it” are probably different things in the mind of the dog, and I do agree completely.
On the other hand, I think that many dogs are able to generalize. In my house, “leave it” means “don’t pick it up,” “spit it out,” “don’t pee on it,” “don’t sniff it,” “stop staring out the door looking for something to bark at,” “stop making that shy dog nervous,” “don’t look at it,” etc.
I don’t know that I consciously set out to train this, but it seems that my dogs actually interpret “leave it” as meaning “that has nothing to do with you, don’t pay any attention to it with any of your active senses” or something along those lines.
Of course, it also falls under the fact that dogs respond to body language and tone, which is why your dog will release from a stay if you cheerfully say “cheerio” in the same tone you usually say “ok” unless you actively practice training them that “ok” and ONLY “ok” is the release word.
jackied says
A tricky situation I’ve had to deal with several times – when your dog catches a live animal and doesn’t kill it, so you need to rescue it (or at least put out of its misery) as quickly as you possibly can. For one of my dogs it’s the only thing he is at all RGy about, so impossible to train for. The other one does RG and has growled at me a few times over bones and other treats, which makes it even harder to know what to do.
Kat says
@JJ; Living with Ranger is definitely an education and a continual challenge to any preconceptions I might have about the limitations of dog cognition there’s no doubt about that! I often wonder if part of the reluctance some people feel to accept that dogs can engage in trade, for example, isn’t simply that we are culturally conditioned to the idea that dogs are ‘dumb animals.’ Observing Ranger for the past six years I kind of feel like I’ve had my mind forced open on the subject. I don’t “know” what his cognitive process is regarding trade, maybe in his mind he’s not trading maybe he’s just asking for treats or chews by showing us something he could chew up if we don’t give him something else to chew. His internal mental process is inaccessible but the behavior he exhibits fits easily and naturally into my concept of how trade works between humans so I can without difficulty use that explanation to describe his behavior. The simplest explanation I have is that he has some internal representation that x can be exchanged for y provided the humans have some desire to possess x. When my husband said he didn’t ‘value’ the junk mail Ranger got something else to ‘trade.’
My other dog Finna, on the other hand, doesn’t appear to me to possess the same cognitive abilities as Ranger. She’s smart, learns quickly, solves puzzles very quickly, and would be described as a smart dog by most observers. However, when she was chewing on the corner of the storage bin where most of the camera gear lives I don’t think the motive was to initiate a trade. I think she just wanted to chew on something and the bin was handy. She happily abandoned the bin in favor of a bone because the bone is a much more desirable chew. If Ranger starts to chew on something inappropriate like the storage bin he does it facing me with frequent looks at me as if he’s making sure I’m seeing what he’s doing and the instant I get up to go in the other room and get him an appropriate chew he stops and waits for me to come back with a good chew. Finna was chewing on the bin looking the other way, she didn’t stop chewing until I’d moved out of her sight and then she followed me into the kitchen and watched while I got her a bone. Her behavior doesn’t fit as neatly into the concept I have of trade as Ranger’s does. Finna will give up something she has in favor of something better but she does not offer to exchange something she thinks I want to get something she wants and Ranger does.
Rose C says
JJ,
I agree that dogs trade for similar reasons humans trade but I’m sure it is not for all exact same motivations and degree of complexity. I can imagine for dogs, it’s as simple as, “I want that which you have, what do you want for it?” (This is just speaking of training, not of resource guarding.) For humans, it’s more complex. We think, we weigh things out, we rationalize, then we decide. For dogs, it is trade just the same, but much simpler. Similar but not entirely the same.
JJ says
A comment about the blog design: I just noticed that the blog pages do not give the date of the blog post. (At least I don’t see the date.) If you happen to be looking at one of the 5 most recent posts, then you can see the date in the right panel. But if I say save a link to a favorite post and go back there later, I can’t tell when the blog post came out.
I don’t know if the lack of date was deliberate or not, but I would really appreciate seeing the dates. So, I thought I would let you know that.
Just a thought for you. Thanks.
Beth with the Corgis says
Ok, here would be an example of dogs engaging in the sort of beginning trade that, say, grade-school students engage in during their school lunches:
Fido gets a new tennis ball from his owner. Fido likes tennis balls, but he has three already. What he really loves is frisbees, and he does not have a frisbee. So Fido is quite insistent on taking his tennis ball to the dog park. When he gets there, he notices that Fluffy has a frisbee.
He offers his tennis ball to Fluffy, but she is not willing to surrender the frisbee for a ball. But he notices Fluffy really likes squeaky toys, so next week he brings a squeaky toy to the dog park and offers that. Fluffy ponders briefly, then drops the frisbee and takes the squeaky toy. Fido takes the frisbee and everyone is happy. Fluffy goes home with her squeaky toy and Fido goes home with his frisbee. This is the way grade school children trade ham sandwiches for chocolate chip cookies, and is the beginnings of human trade.
This is quite a more advanced concept than a dog using trickery to entice Fluffy to drop her frisbee for a stick by engaging in play behavior with the (found and existing in the environment) stick to get Fluffy curious enough to come over and examine the stick, therby granting Fido the opportunity to steal the frisbee from an unsuspecting Fluffy.
Now, the trickery described above is pretty advanced. One could plausibly argue that the trickery described above was an early (of many) steps along the evolutionary chain that eventually led to trade. But it is not trade in and of itself. It is to trade what gliding squirrels are to flight: a likely precursor, a fascinating behavior, but not the total package.
I think it’s important to distinguish reward-based operant conditioning from true trade, because the two concepts require a different set of behaviors on our part to get the desired behavior on our dogs’ parts.
Nic1 says
JJ – I think that humans are generally in it for themselves too when it comes to trading things. Why bother otherwise? Unless it’s charitable of course, which has a higher level of cognitive ability – and requires empathy; the ability to think about the future and an understanding that sometimes you have to sacrifice your own needs for the higher good. Even though a dog may give something up for a higher value item, as I understand it, he does not have the cognitive ability to process that he may or may not get the item back in the future. Dogs lack developed frontal lobes, cortex etc. the decision making and abstract areas of the brain. That is my understanding anyway but please correct me if I am misunderstanding this.
Say you take something to the pawn brokers of high value to you sentimentally and financially, say for example a piece of jewellery. You are in a position of financial detriment, therefore, you would have to consider taking less money for the item than the market value because: a) you need the money and b) you may have an opportunity of getting the item back in the future if your fortune changes. You’ve traded because you have to, so to speak, not because you want to and with another future trade in mind. Would there ever be a scenario where a dog would trade because he had to? The buried chew story is pretty amazing as that definitely implies some future planning!
em says
I have been thoroughly enjoying the stories and discussions so far. I just wanted to throw a couple of ideas out there- it may be splitting hairs, but I would say that dogs do indeed have a sense of ‘trade’ as in ‘I will give you this without a fight if you give me what you have without a fight’, and I WOULD argue that that is very similar to what humans and other primates do when they trade. But, I would NOT argue that dogs have a similar sense of long-term social obligation to that found in humans. Specifically, the concept of ‘owing’ another creature as a result of social interaction, gifts, or favorable trades.
Dogs can and frequently do form positive associations with people or other dogs who have interacted with them pleasantly in the past, but every transaction seems to be a clean slate, so to speak. I can’t quite imagine that dogs take the kind of long view that humans (and perhaps other primates) do, i.e. ‘you did me a favor last week, so I owe you a favor today’. In humans, this sense of obligation/indebtedness is so strong, we will even do things we don’t enjoy for people we don’t like. The desire to establish peaceful, conflict-free relations in the long term is a powerful motivator in humans. I wouldn’t say this kind of social interaction never happens with dogs, because I think the difference is mostly an issue of degree of cognitive complexity, but dogs seem to operate on a simpler, more direct, and more immediate social stage.
I wonder whether (just thinking aloud) the difference may have some connection to the relative obstreperousness of the two species. It has been my general and unscientific observation that groups of familiar dogs are generally far less likely to ‘argue’ or fight, get angry/offended/hold grudges amongst themselves than people are, and to work far less hard to avoid it. It’s hard to say how much of that is the influence of domesticated life, of course, but to a casual observer, the direct, short-term and low sub-text approach works pretty darned well as a social strategy.
Another comment on the dog concept of ‘ownership’- it seems to me that dogs are capable of a surprisingly nuanced and varied sense of ‘having’ and ‘owning’ things. There are some objects (his favorite bed) that my dog seems to feel are permanently ‘his’. He won’t get nasty, but he comes and begs for human intercession if another dog, stranger or resident, occupies ‘his’ spot. Other things, like most toys and food, he seems to consider ‘his’ only as long as he is actively using or consuming them. He’d be at least somewhat offended if another dog tried to take them out of his mouth, but if he leaves them behind, he doesn’t care who picks them up. A third category are things he considers semi-precious, if you will. He doesn’t care enough to keep them close, but if another dog swoops in, he becomes interested again, and will try to get the item back. He never tries to take items orginally ‘owned’ by another dog.
His sense of ‘fair’ and ownership in others (dog or human) are similarly complex, with ‘had it first and currently using/consuming it’ 9/10ths of the law, and ‘had it but left it and is now far away and not paying attention’ the least compelling as far as other dogs’ ownership of desirables. But he can also grasp ‘permanent ownership’ in others, too. Mostly he applies it to the things that belong to humans, but there are toys that he never touches when certain dogs are present at the park, no matter where the toy is relative to the dog.
‘Fair’ is a tricky concept to apply to dogs, I think, but there is a phenomenon at the dog park that I always think of when it comes up in conversation. Many owners carry treats, and when one of the dogs spot another recieving a goody, for any reason, they tend to make a beeline to the ‘honey pot’. The dogs all know some form of an “all gone” cue and will mosey on again with no fuss at all if the human doesn’t care to make a general hand out, but many soft-hearted owners do enjoy giving the dogs a treat, and will hand out treats to the whole group, one at a time, usually after asking for a ‘sit’ or some such.
Here’s the ‘fair’ bit. The dogs originally swarmed because they saw a dog getting something that they themselves were not getting. They couldn’t care less what the dog had done to ‘earn’ it- they might be willing to trade an action for a treat, but I’ve never met a dog who felt that he didn’t “deserve” a reward just for showing up and asking for one. On the other hand, the childlike phenomenon of ‘but HE’s getting, so I should too…..’ seems to be very much a part of dog’s cognitive and emotional repetoire. They all knew the owner had treats, but they didn’t beg until they saw another dog getting something.
THEN, the fun begins. Three dogs seems to be the maximum number of dog that can be fed in turn before the doggie doctrine of ‘fair’ comes into play, which is all about lapsed time, as far as I can see. If I hand a treat to both of my dogs simultaneously, one in each hand, they eat their treats and move on without looking at all affronted. “He got one, I got one, that’s fair.” With three dogs, the time lapsed between when the first dog gets his treat and the third does is very short, mere seconds at most, and most of the time, they react just as when fed simultaneously. The funny part comes in when a person tries to feed more that three, or is particularly slow on the draw. By the time the fourth dog gets his treat, the first has finished, and she watched #4, and possibly #5 and #6, eat with nothing in her own mouth. The fact that she swallowed a treat only seconds before evidently means nothing.
When the generous treat hander-outer finishes, the first dogs shuffle their feet, lick their lips, scooch closer and pointedly sit, stare expectantly at the face of the treat giver, often with a slightly hurt and hopeful expression. They act, in short, just like dogs who have observed another dog recieving a treat and NOT recieved one themselves. Some people laugh, but there are a lot of softies (willing to spoil other people’s dogs) at the dog park and people sometimes get trapped in increasingly hectic, comic loops, because if the first dog gets seconds, she’s satisfied, but then the rest want more, and by the time you finish paying them out, the first has been done for some time AGAIN, and so on…
People sometimes wonder aloud at the accounting of dogs, but to me it seems very simple- they don’t keep track in a long-term cumulative way. To turn it into words, it’s as if they think, ‘nice person gave me a treat, and I ate it, so now I have none. HEY! He’s getting one when I HAVE NONE! NOT FAIR!!!’
That’s what I mean about dogs moving on a simpler, and more immediate plane. I do think they have a grasp of concepts like ‘mine’, ‘yours’, ‘trade’, and ‘fair’, but I don’t think it’s at all surprising that the dog version of these ideas doesn’t quite equate to a human’s, and I see a lot of the difference involving the length of the social game, so to speak. Humans more often weigh out the long-term risks and dividends, while dogs seem to be all about the right now. It’s one of the qualities I love about them.
LunaGrace says
Having arrived VERY late to this discussion, I would nevertheless like to add to the “trade” portion.
One day, when Yogi the Bear Dog was just over a year of age, I was sitting at the table, eating dinner. None of my dogs have ever been allowed to beg, are not fed from the table, and usually don’t even hang around closely as what goes on over their heads never seems to involve them. However, on this day as I was eating, Yogi went to his Doggie Toy Box and selected a toy which he brought to the side of my chair and dropped on the floor. I wasn’t paying much attention at that point, so I didn’t understand what he was trying to communicate. But he picked the toy up and dropped it several times, right beside my chair, and so I NOTICED. Yogi then looked very pointedly at the area of the table where my plate was. OK, so I was pretty sure he wanted something from my plate, but those are not the “rules” in my household so I ignored him. He then picked the toy up, placed it in my lap, and pushed against it FIRMLY with his nose as he purposely PLACED it …… “THERE!” ……. and looked at me, looked again at my plate, and then again at me, his eyes flicking back and forth from my plate to my face. “Did you understand?” or “Are you going to give me something?” He was offering something he valued for something I had that he wanted more. Is that not “trade”?
Not adverse to playing this game that Yogi initiated and wanting to know how far this would go, we have progressed over the past 7 years to trading with strict application of rules …. The toy brought for trade cannot just be dropped on the floor, it has to be PLACED on the lap or in the hand; sometimes the toy he brings doesn’t get him anything, “Sorry, not good enough”, in which case he will return to his doggie toy box and select something additional (of higher value to him?) to place in my lap or hand; sometimes two or three toys do not get him the desired piece of food and he will either abandon the “trading” and go lie down on his sling bed to wait until I am done at the table or decide to “up the ante” to four toys to try to get a piece of food from me. All toys brought are put out of his reach, either tucked behind my back against the chair back or put in the center of the table, so cannot be re-used to trade for additional pieces of food.
I have to remember to warn dinner guests of this “trading” before we sit down to eat as Yogi doesn’t choose to trade at every meal, and doesn’t always confine his trades for food morsels to me. I tell them if they choose to accept Yogi’s trade goods, they have to KEEP the toy and give him something of value in return. Of course, they can also choose NOT to participate in the trading at all and, after the first unsuccessful attempt, Yogi will quit them and try another trading partner. After explaining the “trading rules” to guests, they ask if I have trainged Yogi to do this and I tell them honestly, “No” that HE has trained ME to do this. It was HIS initiation and he decides if I am asking too high a price in dog toys for a food morsel.
Kat says
This story is about a two and an half year old child rather than a dog but I think can shed some light on the subject of trade as it exists in the mind of a dog. Two-three year old children are fairly opaque as to their motives, much as dogs are. We can see what they do and we can make inferences based on our own motives but they can’t tell us why they did something. A friend of mine had a bunch of women and their toddlers over for a play date. The kids were playing in the yard and the moms were chatting and my friend did not watch her toddler as closely as she later wished she had. Her husband was a theatrical fight choreographer and began his day working out with various swords and knives. Her son, unobserved, went into the house, climbed on the kitchen counter and took one of her professional chef knives from the knife block. He brought it back outside to his friends–the assumption was to show his friends what his daddy did every day. Clearly a wickedly sharp knife in the hands of a toddler in a group of toddlers is an extremely bad thing. Mom had a choice of 1) asking for the knife and hopping he’d surrender it just for the asking, 2) attempting to physically remove it from him with all attendant risks, or 3) trading him something for the knife. Knowing her child responded best to trades she opted to exchange ice cream for the knife. He son cheerfully followed her back into the kitchen holding the knife the way she requested (point down and edge angled away from him) and surrendered it in exchange for the ice cream.
The son has now learned that the knife has value to his mother and he can exchange it for ice cream. Does he have the idea, at his age, that this was a single exchange and now his mother for ever after possesses the knife or is he going to try to trade that knife for ice cream every time he gets his hands on it. If you’ve lived with a toddler you know the answer is the latter. His mother put her knives behind childproof latches. (In her defense he was her first child).
When we exchange one thing for another thing with a very young child perhaps we are merely operant conditioning them to give up something in exchange for something or perhaps we are teaching them the rudiments of trade. Living with the dogs that I do I think that Ranger, at least, operates very much at the cognitive level of a young child. Finna sometimes rises to that level but in general is no where near as sophisticated in what she can grasp. Does Ranger grasp that once the trade is made he can’t have the object he gave up any more? I’m not sure; most of the things he trades away are put away out of his reach but some of them like books live at his level. He doesn’t pick up the same book again and offer to exchange it. He will, however, sometimes pick up another book near the one he just traded away and offer to exchange it. Usually though a single ‘trade’ is all he’s interested in. It could be that he just superstitiously believes that only a different item will get him a ‘trade.” Or he could have some limited sense that he’s already trade that one away he needs to use another one. Or the few occasions this has happened when he grabbed another book to initiate another exchange it was simply a random selection.
Come to think of it, the storage bin Finna was chewing on earlier remains exactly where it was and she hasn’t gone back to chew on it again. I suspect it’s more to do with the fact that she hasn’t felt the need to chew and so lacked motivation. Still, I’ll definitely have to watch how she interacts with it in the future.
I find my dogs, and others, endlessly fascinating.
Kat says
@Em, Your treats in the dog park comments reminded me of an exchange from a day I was working with Ranger in the very distracting dog park environment on some behaviors. Ranger loves dried apricots, they are one of his most high value treats, so I was rewarding him with bits of dried apricot. One of his pals came up and carefully observed for a bit then began to mimic what Ranger was doing clearly hoping that by doing so he would also earn what Ranger indicated was a truly wonderful reward. Asking and receiving permission from his people to give him a bit of dried apricot I rewarded both dogs for a very nice down while other dogs ran around. Ranger gobbled his up with great satisfaction and the other dog spit his on the ground with every indication of disgust. Clearly I had violated the implied contract of tricks for treats and paid him in yucky stuff while paying Ranger in good stuff. He had no concept that the treats involved were identical only that Ranger had a good treat and he had a bad one.
Martina says
Gina always had a serious problem about food. Nowadays food is still her priority number one, but unless it’s a treasure found outside, it’s no issue anymore. Once she gets something valuable enough (her standards, not mine) in her mouth, I’ve got no means to get it out of her, except force – which I try to avoid. It’s obvious that she has had a bad history and when using force to make her do something, she retreats and remains inaccessible for the next days.
Toys were always very low on her agenda and even when still a puppy, Robby was allowed to take them from her. So he grew up believing all toys and sticks and everything lying on the ground belonged to him. Our old trainer was no help, believing in dominant dogs and that they would handle this among themselves and all situations where resources might become a topic had to be avoided at all costs. Unfortunately Robby is a gentle dominant, but was lacking self confidence.
At some point Robby started intervening when I was petting Gina, sometimes even physically by pushing her aside while growling.
Flash forward to today: Robby has learned to share toys with Mailo (now 9 months old); and we seem to have an Einstein duo: I see Robby with a toy that Mailo wants, so Mailo goes to Gina and does something which triggers a wild reaction from her, Robby drops the toy to go to Gina and save Mailo while Mailo turns around and picks up the toy. At first Robby would go after him, now he just let’s him play with it.
Mailo can sit on my lap while I pet Robby and Gina. When receiving treats they line up and wait their turn, and when the treats are bigger, they all go to their favourite places with them. On the only condition that Robby is not allowed outside, cause then he starts guarding the treat instead of chewing.
Even when we meet other dogs with toys, he greets the dogs but doesn’t pay attention to their toys.
That was achieved thanks to discovering your books and blog and finding a new trainer wo listens and observes.
@Trisha thanks for the beautiful words about Tulip. The major reason why we got a third, way smaller dog than our retrievers, is my partner who cannot physically handle them, due to a rheumatic condition.
Linds says
An excellent article, and by the way I completely agree with you giving the bird back to the dog who then trusted you ever after – exactly what I would do!!
Thanks also for including the little bit about classical and operant conditioning, as a behaviourist I know this but it’s good to see it spelt out neatly for those learning and interested in the subject.
Mireille says
I haven’t got time at the moment to read all the post, just wanted to add that Shadow does not have an RC problem thanks to Trisha :-). We had a husky named Chenak who was rehomed to us at the age of four. He was a resource guarder, not food bowl but chewbones and yukkie stuf he found as prey. I can still remember a long walk, blessedly in the dark, with him carrying a dead stiff cat, refusing to let go. And boy, are a dogs jawmuscles strong, forcing him to give something up was impossible. He wouldn’t bite, just clamp his powerful jaws together, turn his head away and hold on…. He would growl and snap if he was chewing a bone in the living room, but with +R we got to the point were we could sit next to him, pet him when he was chewing. When we got the new pups, I wanted to make sure they would not start RC. Having read the story about the lab puppy that loved to steal socks etc and was punished for it (and had to be put down) I was resolved to ‘do it right’. The first night I fed the pups, Shadow growled when I accidentally touched his bowl. Uhoh, work to do…. So we started trading games, I knew I was not able to say ‘leave it’ or ‘drop it’ in a non-strict voice, so we started using ‘did you find something goooood?’ and to make a long story short; whenever our sock stealing monster came prancing trough the room and we asked him this, he would immediately drop it and come collect his reward. He gives up anything I want, well almost anything…. Recently he found a tiny young rabbit killed by a car and wolfed it down so I guess I have some work to do.
On hereditary or not: Shadow and Spot are littermates. When we got them, Shad was bigger, fatter en guarded his food. At our place, we fed them seperately. Within foor weeks Spot was bigger (still is). He never guarded anything against us. He did tease Shadow (see this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uGhNWfBWLZ4&sns=em , apologies for the quality, new camera…) but… we had an older sibe with a dislike for Shadow, he frequently got told off whereas Spot was allowed much more space and consequently behaved as the nr 1 puppy. After our older dog died, they got into a serious fight over a bone, Spot kept pestering Shadow who was chewing it and finally something snapped and he attacked. First and only real fight, my hubby had to seperate them by hitting them with a broom, all other things did not work. Sinces then Shadow is top dog and started to take everything thing he wanted from Spot. If I gave them both a chew bone, he would collect them both. If I took one from him and gave it back to Spot, he would attack Spot. I was not happy with that, so finalky decided to interfere, first by giving goodies seperate (one in a pen, one outside) and later by giving Spot something, blocking Shadow and rewarding any attention to me, any sit etc with CHEESE. Oh, and by sharing the empty yoghurt cups by letting them lick in turns (another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iy5gptURec&sns=em ) were calm behaviour was rewarded. Foodstuff is now fine, even with strange dogs I can hand cookies around, no problem. Toys otoh are usually claimed by Shadow to the extend that Spot deigns not to have anything to do with them. When Shad is around an I throw a ball, Spot reacts like ‘now you got that thing out of your hand, can you give me a cuddle’ or he runs after is halfheartedly and comes back for a cuddle whereas Shadow loves to retrieve (and play keep away). One day I wanted to make a film about my two brothers, the retriever andnon retriever sibe. I put Shad out of sight in the garage and this happened; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGYeEz1NAWE&sns=em I have two retrieving siberians 🙂 only one of them does not want to challenge the other about his prized ball 😉
My theory is that Shadow is more confrontational, doesn’t shirk a fight and is prepared to defend his resources, (resulting in a fatter puppy, fighting his littermates) whereas Spot, who is much more unsure, prefers to shirk confrontations and thus gives up on his posessions much easier. Since there were nine pups in this litter and a mother with 8 nipples, it *might* be that Shadow is fiercer than he would have been had he been in a smaller litter??
Nic1 says
@Beth – really important point you made about operant conditioning because that is actually how all animals learn, regardless of what we may perceive is actually happening with regard to trading. I may be tempted to trade my chocolate chip cookies for a ham sandwich with my best friend, despite the fact I prefer chocolate chip cookies. But my understanding of my relationship with my friend and my ability to put myself in her shoes, (empathy) allows me to be kind and lose out on the deal. Dogs lack that higher cognitive ability in order to truly trade and lack the self awareness to understand that trade may benefit the other dog or person in the deal too.
‘what’s in it for me then?’
Whenever I am trying to teach my dog anything, that question is always what I imagine she is thinking.
Rose C says
I am really thrilled reading through everyone’s comments, learning what each one think or how each one feel about these topics. And I am enjoying the stories you all share.
Kat, the way you related and described the incident with Ranger and Finna and the cat makes me think that you would make a great ethologist, if you aren’t one. But then, having read through the many stories and observations each one has made on their own dog/s (or dogs they have encountered) makes me realize that we essentially are all ‘ethologists’ to some degree as well.
Em, I especially enjoyed reading your post. And I agree to the things you mentioned as well.
LunaGrace, what Yogi does is really cute and funny. Although if I would be asked why do I think Yogi does what appears to be ‘trading’, I’d probably say it is not trading as why humans do trading. Dog will repeat what previously worked for them. If an act will result in them receiveing treats, then they will repeat the same act in hope that they will get another treat. They learn by repetition, also the reason why after they learn a command, we keep doing exercises to ‘proof’ their response to it.
As much as I believe in the human-dog bond & relationship, in canine cognition, and how dogs have come so far in their evolution that they have become so attuned with humans, I consciously make efforts to always see and acknowledge them as who they are, not how I want to see them nor what I think I see in them. Often, when we observe them doing something, we make inferences (thanks, Kat, I had been looking for that word) based, not only on our own motives, but also on our thoughts and feelings if we ourselves would be doing the very act that the dog we are observing is currently doing. We can’t help it, we can only explain things based on what we know. The rest will pretty much be assumptions, theories, and educated guesses. Not a bad thing at all, but still not the actual thing. I always have to remind myself that dogs do not think, act, nor react like me, and I do not seek that they do. What I do seek is to find a common ground between me and my dogs (and me and other dogs) so that I can relate to them better and for both of us to benefit from our interactions.
Beth with the Corgis says
Kat, I can understand your inferences drawn from watching Ranger “trade” a book for a treat when the mail won’t work, but I can argue there is another, slightly simpler (though still impressive) explanation, and it’s something that we run into often with clicker-training and other high-motivation techniques where we use shaping to generate a behavior: you back-chained one step more than you anticipated when you trained the behavior of relinquishing for treats.
Let me give an example that’s unrelated: suppose I am trying to teach “quiet.” I click-treat when my dog stops barking, then I add your command “shush” or “quiet” or whatever you use.
Over time, I suddenly realize, in frustration, that my dog is barking MORE. He will reliably “quiet” every time I ask, but he is initiating barking now at random times when he never barked before.
I realize that what I’ve done is developed a link in his mind that if he starts to bark, I’ll give a command to quiet, he’ll oblige, and I’ll reward him. There is a technical term for this, but alas I forgot it.
When we use training based on capturing behaviors, dogs will frequently offer up behaviors that worked for them before if the current behavior does not generate a reward.
Combine these two concepts, and what you get is a simple operant conditioning explanation of Ranger’s behavior:
Since relinquishing an item gets me a reward, I will sometimes pick up an item just to relinquish it. If the item I picked up does not work, I will randomly offer other, similar behaviors until I find the key that gets me the reward.
While operant conditioning is surely the basis for many types of behavior, both animal and human, human-type trade requires many more sophisticated layers piled on top of that. If the simpler explanation works to describe the behavior, usually I go with that.
Beth with the Corgis says
Kat, I also wanted to address this: “I often wonder if part of the reluctance some people feel to accept that dogs can engage in trade, for example, isn’t simply that we are culturally conditioned to the idea that dogs are ‘dumb animals.’”
I can tell you why I am reluctant to think they engage in trade: Because when I was about 8, I read the story of Clever Hans. Hans was indeed clever. He was very clever at reading subtle breathing changes in his owner. But he most decidedly was not capable of doing math. It made me realize at an impressionable age that we ascribe human-like motivations and capabilities at our peril.
I certainly don’t think my dogs are dumb. I think they are amazingly clever at some human tasks, like picking up simple language using nothing but context, and reading human facial expressions (I learned this the hard way when I inadvertently taught Maddie that a smile was a release from a stay; I didn’t even realize I was doing it til she made it plain I was.)
I think dogs are much better than us at some things. I can no more find a frisbee buried in a snowy half-acre than Jack can drive a car. I trust Jack over myself to determine whether or not it is wise to approach a new dog. Both of mine are amazing at recognizing the subtle clues that we are about to do something that they found fun (or that resulted in them getting food) in the past, even if it only happened once. Both of mine started pulling like crazy on the leashes once (unusual for them), and Maddie started squealing, to get to some people that were nearly two blocks away. I couldn’t figure out why til we reached them, and then I remembered that they had doled out a ridiculous number of treats to my dogs the last time we saw them. The kicker is, we were in a park on a lovely day and it was quite crowded, yet my dogs correctly picked out of that crowd two people they had met exactly once before, just because those people had fed them. Ask yourself if you would recognize the waitress from a place you ate once at a month before if you saw her at a crowded movie theater; I know I would not.
But being fairly certain that my dogs have no real concept of commerce certainly does not reflect a belief on my part that dogs are dumb. Dogs are brilliant at all sorts of things I am lousy at. But they are not little people in fur coats, and I do not need to find them capable of very human activities in order to feel they are quite brilliant.
Many higher social functions are part of a long evolutionary process, and dogs and other social animals exhibit some precursors to our more complex processes, surely. I find it fascinating to see the similarities. Nothing described here about people’s dogs amounts to human-type trade, though.
Martina says
Beth, that’s exactly what happened when I wanted to teach Gina not to bark at the cats who were sitting out of her reach on top of the wardrobe in the hall.
I called her into the kitchen and rewarded her. Worked every time. Except that Robby went in the hall, barked, looked into the kitchen as if asking me “where’s my treat?” after not much more than a handful of repeats with Gina.
His combination skills paired with his memory are a constant challenge 😉
Kat says
@Rose C., Thank you for the kind words. I’m not an ethologist but I do try very hard to be an honest observer. And I try to keep an open mind about the possible meanings of what I observe.
Personally, I don’t find it at all a stretch to observe behavior in my dogs that is analogous to that I observed in my children when they were very young. After all, dogs have evolved to live in relationship with humans. And as Nic1 so rightly points out, just like people, dogs are in it to maximize their own ‘good’ which, of course, they define individually just like people do. Trade, as I use the term in the context of giving something to a dog in exchange for something the dog has, fits the dictionary definition of an exchange of property. LunaGrace’s dog Yogi uses property that our customary usage would label as his property—they are his toys. Ranger uses found objects that he thinks we will ‘value’ and to be honest sometimes we value them simply because we don’t want him to have them—the broken plastic cd case with sharp edges for example that he retrieved when the cat knocked over the trash can.
Of course we can’t know what mental representation of the exchange the dog possesses, we can only observe how the behavior looks to us. Many of my friends and relations are medical professionals; they have a saying that if a patient comes in with hooves and a mane it’s better to think horse rather than to start looking for evidence that it is a zebra. Or to use a more common saying, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck it probably is a duck. I like the horse and zebra saying better here because while you start with the assumption that it’s a horse you keep an open mind that it might still turn out to be a zebra. When a dog like Yogi puts one of his toys in someone’s lap hoping they will give him a bit of their dinner in exchange it looks like trade—an exchange of property. When Ranger rejects the treat in front of his nose in favor of a potentially better (higher value—and we all accept that some treats are preferred over others) treat it looks like a trade negotiation. When a toddler brings you a pretty rock and asks for a bite of your ice cream in exchange for giving you the rock we have no problem labeling that an offer to trade even though it is a behavior we have conditioned by giving the toddler things in exchange for other things in the past. I am comfortable with the hypothesis some dogs engage in behavior that appears to be trade with humans. I try not to discount competing hypotheses and to evaluate the arguments and data supporting those hypotheses fairly but so far I haven’t been persuaded that my “horse” is actually a “zebra.”
Dogs have evolved to interact with humans as well as with other dogs. Studies on the gaze of dogs have shown that they look at the side of the human face that most clearly displays emotion first (I apologize that I don’t remember for sure which and don’t have time right now to look it up) but dogs do not look at that side of another dogs face first. It is a behavior they have evolved to make living with people easier. Given the number of similarities apparent between dogs and people—emotions such as joy, fear, anger, etc.—and the evolutionary strategies employed by dogs to get along with people I can easily accept that some dogs engage in a behavior that appears to be trade with humans. I can never know whether the dogs are viewing it as trade in the same way that I am.
And that’s enough out of me on the subject. I’ll leave it to others to have the last word. Thank you for allowing me to clarify my thoughts.
Rose C says
Kat,
An excerpt from and the link to a reasearch article with the info that you couldn’t remember:
Reading Faces: Differential Lateral Gaze Bias in Processing Canine and Human Facial Expressions in Dogs and 4-Year-Old Children
“Visual processing of emotions is known to be subject to brain lateralisation in both human and non-human animals. Two main theories have been proposed regarding the type of lateralisation involved. The Right Hemisphere Model suggests that the right hemisphere regulates emotional processes, regardless of their valence and the Valence Model states that the right hemisphere is mainly involved regarding negative emotions and the left hemisphere is mainly involved regarding positive emotions.”
http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0036076
Beth with the Corgis says
Martina, it can be very hard to avoid training in the extra behavior you don’t want. When teaching puppies to kindly relinquish stolen items, it is very easy to accidentally teach them to intentionally steal things, in order for you to ask for them to be relinquished and to then give them the reward. I was careful never to reward Jack for relinquishing stolen items when he was a pup. I would just try to catch him and remove them, or distract him with something else. I WILL treat him every time for surrendering or leaving dropped food items, since he can only get them if we drop them to begin with.
If you use capturing to teach a “sit” you can get it then (the dog looking at you hopefully and sitting down for no reason) but that is easier to avoid because you then put it on cue and only reward when you ask for it.
We use that tendency to our great advantage when we teach “heel”; by rewarding the dog randomly for walking nicely by our side, we then can get a dog who offers the behavior frequently and spontaneously, and then we can put it on cue. I used this to teach Maddie to heel.
Perhaps Trisha can do a post on how to avoid getting in the unwanted barking/stealing etc. I have heard how to do it but it’s tricky and I can’t recall. I’m forever wary of it with Jack because he will play anyone like a violin when he thinks he’s figured out a way to con extra treats out of you. I never treated him for “quiet” and only used verbal praise because he is already an over-zealous barker and I was afraid I’d accidentally capture the “bark so she tells me quiet and I get a treat” chain.
Basically, you need to delink the prior behavior (barking) from the reward sequence and I am always puzzled how to do that.
But dogs picking up items they should not have and giving them to a person for a reward is probably one of the top 2 behaviors where we see the unwanted behavior (taking items) chained to the wanted behavior (surrendering them) in the reward sequence. Barking is the most common, I think.
Thea says
My Sylvie terrier is very perceptive when it comes to chaining. Some time ago I was feeling clicker-crazy and decided she could help me clean by picking things up from the floor and putting them either in ‘trash’ or ‘recycle’. It was super cute but not that helpful, because she also chained the behavior of grabbing bits of paper out of the recycle bin, and then would shred them to bits with a gleam in her eye (instinctive drift maybe?) I also taught her ‘put your toys away’ in the toy bin. Sometimes she will get take out a toy and then appear to change her mind, and then very obviously places it back in the bin for a treat.
Of course she knows the dreaded bark-quiet chain all too well 🙁 I tried to circumvent this by putting the barking on cue, thinking that if it was its own distinct behavior then it might be less likely to creep in to the ‘quiet’ behavior. And that seems to work pretty ok, ish… (Sylvie is much more naturally talented at barking than at ‘quiet’.) Also I reward ‘quiet’ with exponentially more and better treats than barking on cue, which only earns kibble. Still, Sylvie had a scam where she barks at the door and then runs over expectantly, and she does this most often when there’s really good food out on the table.
Can we talk some more about RG of people? Sylvie was a stray before I had her, is now a Velcro dog, gets mild separation anxiety when left alone (sometimes loses her appetite for lesser foods), and guards me horribly from my boyfriend. She will hunker down on top of me and insistently lick his hands if he comes near, or lunge at him with inhibited bite (closed or open mouth). She also seems to hate my roommates’ best friend, who comes over often. The friend is quiet and gentle and nice, and often brings over delicious Korean food that sometimes falls on the floor, so Sylvie’s dislike seems completely irrational to me. Maybe because the friend often sits on the couch with roommates and watches movies? Interestingly, when the friend came over to hang with my male roommate while my female roommate was away, Sylvie was much more tolerant of her presence.
Rose C says
So that is called ‘chaining’. I was starting to think that dogs have learned to manipulate humans, which can be considered as partly true depending on how one looks at it . . .
Anna says
Hi,
This was a super helpful post, and I’ve had to do a lot of similar exercises with my GSD who exhibited resource guarding towards dogs and people in various circumstances (re: people- food re:dogs – food, water, toys, sticks, our apartment building, and most recently, me)
We’ve come a long way wrt most of this discomfort. His food guarding is completely resolved, and outside, a combination of making drop it the best thing ever has gotten a solid drop and approach for treats even when other dogs are around, even though the discomfort isn’t 100% gone. (I normally do not opt for making him drop a toy because I can tell it still makes him tense when other dogs are around. The general rule is no picking up toys/sticks unless I say so.)
My recent issue is that he’s starting to get extra nervous/protective around me. He’s actually a pretty timid and petite guy. When other large or dominant dogs bother him, or when he’s given up a toy, he’s always been encouraged to come to me for reward/encouragement. Lately though, I’ve noticed that I’m exacerbating his discomfort. In situations where he is mildly uncomfortable with a dog/toy situation, he comes back, and if the other dog follows him, he’s very likely to snap. Very “get away from us!” So I’ve started grabbing his collar to control any potential fights. I do try to redirect with food and happy noises, but I can tell my grabbing the collar for control is now part of the trigger. He’s liable to start grabbing/snapping at nearby dogs the moment I touch it.
Fortunately, no fights so far, but this seems like a very unsafe cocktail. Not sure whether it’s possessiveness/discomfort or a negative feedback loop I’m making worse. Also not sure how to address this. It doesn’t help that this is normally on long off leash walks, where we’re unlikely to run into the same people/dogs, and have limited opportunity for controlled situations to acclimate to discomfort.
Ckoei says
Thus far, my recently shelter adopted Standard Poodle has been willing to give up resources like a beamish boy,though I’ve noticed a bit of AG (Activity Guarding) during our daily flying saucer sessions: when returning with floppy frisbee, he alternates between giving it up in a wink and moving a few steps behind my back to do a pancake routine (dropping it on ground and turning it over with nose and paws like a proficient baker at a church fete). An interruption of this process is met with the guardian grumbles, for sure…
Kristin and 3 chis says
My dog Rylie is a wonderful dog, I have no doubt if ever anybody was a real threat to me she would give her life to protect me. Her instinct to protect me is causing problems, though. I’ve had 4 different positive reinforcement trainers over to try to help us and Rylie just started fluoxetine. She resource guards me from certain types of people, mostly big and male, kids running, people that look like my mom, and my mom. We are getting ready to move into my mom’s house and I am really worried. When we are at my mom’s house Rylie does her “fierce and ferocious” bark and lunges at my mom if she gets close to me or sometimes even if she just talks to me. If she pets or talks to the other dogs she also goes crazy barking. I know she is over threshold, but we have tried everything. My mom is the only one to give treats or food while we are at her house and Rylie obeys her commands for sit and high five. She’ll take the treats or food then run away to eat it. My mom hasn’t ever teased Rylie or taken anything away from her. Not sure what to do next.
Kristin and 3 chis says
I know she is not protecting me, but guarding me as an important object. It just feels like she is protecting me. Really feels like I have a 10 pound bodyguard.
Marilyn Marks says
Great blog post! This topic is near and dear to me not just as a trainer who has to help families with this issues but because I have one crazy cocker spaniel (failed foster) in my house. We call him crazy because he really does lash out and seem to loose his thinking faculties at times and it’s always over a resource. Patricia, if you answer these responses, do you differentiate between “normal” resource guarding, where a dog tries on humans a mild warning and it maybe works so they use it again and more obsessive (maybe not the right term) type where they go into a transfixed and transformed state of being?
I have had much success with my dog using the type of program you describe here but he will never be safe when handled by joe public.
FWIW: Like the dog you described, my cocker is submissive in all other social situations, never tries to take things from other dogs or people (food off the counter notwithstanding). He has noise phobias and sudden environmental contrast issues. He has seizures several times a year. When I first got him (at 10 mos. old) he did not differentiate what he was guarding (no value structure where meat was more valuable than kleenex, for example) nor who it was from (not allowing some people in closer than others before responding, not giving different levels of response to different people). With training / behavior mod he has become more normal in that he does differentiate items and people.
Can’t wait to read your dog-dog solutions, as that remains a huge issue and I have tried so many ways to modify that! The best teachers seem to be the other dogs who weasel their way into his zone.
Marie says
My question is about touching the dog when they have a valued object. My dog will let me come up and take the object without much fuss but if I touch him he growls. I am wondering if I am putting too much pressure on him by expecting him to be good with this . . . He does drop the object when told to drop it and does let me take it. It is more about the touching him. This also occurs with food . . . I don’t want to over react/correct but I also don’t want to ignore . . . any advice/suggestions appreciated.
JJ says
Marie: I am by no means an expert. I’m just a lay person. But I had some thoughts about your post.
If it was ever just going to be you *and* if there was a guarantee that you would never accidentally touch your dog while he felt he had to guard a resource, THEN maybe it would be fine to ignore. But your dog is actually growling. That’s pretty serious. What if a kid brushes up against your dog some day when he/she is eating? My point is that this seems serious enough and this world is just uncontrollable enough that it would be wise to carefully try to address the situation if you can.
My other thought is that if you try to address this, this would be one of those situations above where Trisha suggested that you bring in a professional. Your dog is actually growling at you. I would think that you would want someone else with fresh, expert eyes to take a look at the situation and give suggestions on how to proceed.
For what it’s worth, that’s my 2 cents. Best of luck to you.
Mary K. says
Just wanted to give a quick update regarding my earlier post about my dog’s resorce guarding issue. I have been using the treatment plan that Trisha outlines above and I have to say that I am beyond pleased with the results. I first started by tossing bits of cheese (one of his very favorite treats) near to him as he was chewing on his most RG’d possession; a bully stick. I would then just walk away. I did this on several different occasions. We are now to the point that the minute I approach he looks at me with soft eyes (trust me when I say I was met with a very hard stare and stillness prior to this) and a low sweeping tail as he anticipates the bit of cheese. I am now able to stand beside him and still I am met with soft eyes. Next up is the classical conditioning step and reaching for the bully. I am very interested to see how this step goes but I will be watching closely to see if I need to back it up a bit. This is certainly a several step procedure but so worth the time and effort. Thanks Trisha and I’ll see how it continues to go 🙂
Rose C says
Mary K,
Great news! Happy for you and your dog! He is lucky to have a patient and dedicated owner like you.
Marie,
Like JJ, I am not a professional but just a lay person too. IMO, your dog’s issue *may not* be RG per se but is a concern nevertheless. Maybe your dog just doesn’t like to be touched in certain areas. If it happens only when he has an object or food, then maybe it is a form of RG but displayed in a different way. Since he lets you take the object or drops it when you ask him to, maybe the growl was a mild protest just before doing what he is asked to do.
But a growl is a form of warning about something. And when a dog growls, it typically is communicating that it didn’t like something. In your example, he probably didn’t like either how you touched, the fact that you touched, or the fact that you touched him when he had the object/food. I would suggest that you follow Trisha’s recommended treatment in this post before the situation gets worse, that is, before his behavior manifests: 1) more frequently, 2) in more context(s)/situations, and 3) with more intensity (snarling, stiffer more ‘forward’ body, a look that says ‘I’m giving you a last warning here’, and of course, biting).
If he is showing these signs already or if you are not sure how to handle the behavior, it will be best for you and your dog to consult a professional.
Keep us posted as well.
Rose C says
@Marie,
BTW, if he growls when touched only (and only) on the same area of his body, it might be worth considering that there might be something that bothers him on that area. It’s always good to eliminate any possible physical causes first.
Sarah says
This is a great informative article. My dog resource guards from other dogs. Usually balls and water bowls. I’m working on this with him so the tips are helpful and learning more about dog behavior in general has been helpful. It’s hard to use treats at the dog park when he’s around other dogs, although I usually use positive reinforcement techniques everywhere else. Why? Because all the doggies will attack you for your treats 🙂
Annette Stiebing says
My BC Lauca sometimes tries to RG me when I pick him up at my dogsitters house after work. He spends my workdays there with 4 other dogs (2 Malinois & 2 German Sheppards)and all the dogs love some attention from me when I come to the house. Luca sits in front of me and tries to bodyblock the others away, he does not growl or threaten the others, since he is the last in the hierachie of the pack. I ignore him if he tries to push the others away and invite the others to come to me for petting and only give him attention if the others are accepted close to me by him. Up to now I can take anything away from him be it food, treats or anything else. We also practised touching him anywhere since he came to live with us at 9 weeks, our vet really appreciates it.
Martie says
What is the difference between the command “off ” and “leave it”? I watched the video about multiple dogs in the home and Pat demonstrated the command off with three of her dogs. Can someone explain how they are different?
Jim says
Fantastic post. Unfortunately we just went through a major rg issue and had to rehome a dog. He was exceptional with the exception of RG his bones and bully sticks and despite hand feeding, trading etc etc for 3 months, he bit 3 members of our family and 6 year old. Curious if everyone agrees with our trainer that its not necessarily part of the dogs lines but goes back to wolves. It was really sad and the wife is by shy about another pup. Many thanks
Susan Hill says
Hi I was disappointed to read that the only way you mention to deal with RG is to use treats. Why not become the leader? So many dogs are being relinquished to shelters where they die because no one wants to adopt a dog with aggression. My dear friend, Brandon Fouche, is an aggression dog expert and has rehabilitated thousands of dogs deemed unadoptable, vicious and slated for death. If treats work fine. But if they don’t shouldn’t we be observing what this fine gentleman does not in months but days, weeks and sometimes minutes to hours all without rewards based training. He doesn’t abuse the dogs either. He is the kindest caring loving man you’ll ever meet. Dominance doesn’t mean abuse. Many blessings! Rev. Susan Hill
Maggie says
Wonderful, wonderful blog post and some insanely helpful comments! Thank you! I will definitely be implimenting some of these idea with both dogs. I have two dogs, catahoula mixes. Hank is 3 and Tonka is 1.5. Tonka was rescued @ 5 months and definitely had some hoarding tendencies. I did many of the things above on Trisha’s list – treats for just coming in the room near toys, trading up, returning the his OOD (object of desire) etc. We never had a problem with him and human but I wanted to make sure he saw us as good and learned to trust us- he was definitely fighting for food as a puppy and was less socialized. Foster mom said he was the bully of all the siblings, so we make him work for everything (in/out of house, wait for food, no on the couch, etc). He is adorable and smart and he shows no sign of RG w/ humans. Unfortunately, he has started w/ the older dog (Hank). As a puppy Tonka pushed the limits but ultimately respected Hank and we made sure any of his bully behavior toward Hank was controlled and redirected. Hank has been a social skills great teacher for Tonka. Recently, within the past 2 months, Tonka has begun RG certain toys. Not all of them and not all the time. At least, I think it’s RGing. Hank will have a bone, Tonk will see it (even though he has a bone of his own), walk up and try and take it. Hank will tell him “no” and most of the time, he respects it. If the bone is too high value or he doesn’t like that Hank says gives him a warming, Tonk has attacked. It has happened 3 times now – each one we were there and jumped in immediately. He has drawn blood and it was terrifying for all of us. My husband and I are watching him but I don’t know how to do, as Trisha said, and re-train his brain. We are controlling the toys/bones in the house and the situation – but I want to help re-wire his brain to see that he doesn’t need to steal the toy. This is new and I’m trying to document how he is but it really depends on his mood. I did a little clicker training with him previous and he responded well to it. I’m wondering if there is a way to work that in? Btw: I did look for a good clicker trainer in the area to speak with and I can’t seem to find any. Thank you again, everyone for your comments. It’s great to see all these amazing comments. So much knowledge here…I’m excited I found the blog!!
Maggie says
Mary K: that’s a wonderful update!! How are things going now? I know I’m jumping on this thread waaay late inthe game…but updates are always fun to read 🙂
Annette says
I’m so glad to have found this blog. I’m looking for great resources to help a woman who is training a puppy (and having a very hard time at it) unfortunately I can’t convince her to give up the trainer she has hired, who uses outdated (and unscientific) methods.
Thank you so much for the post! I’m always so excited to find new, useful and eloquent resources for dog owners!!
Thanks!
And also Susan Hill, I urge you to read articles related to “dominance theory” so that you can understand why it isn’t truth (and is provably incorrect). I have rehabilitated over a hundred shelter dogs with resource guarding and other aggression problems. All without ever needing to be the “pack leader” or with using “dominance”.
Unfortunately leadership tactics and dominance theory really is using fear as the method of controlling the dog. Some trainers are very good at subtle uses of force and fear in their methods. Whether or not it is “abusive” is definitely up for debate and I don’t claim that it is. However it doesn’t work nearly as well as using so-called “positive training”.
I’m sure your friend is a wonderful person who is devoted to helping dogs and that is wonderful. However while he may cause the dogs to stop RG in his presence and for a short period of time it nearly always crops back up in the dog after he goes to his new home. This is because the dog is not afraid of his new owners.
Even if the new owners use fear and force (“dominance”) there is often a small child or stranger that will end up receiving a nasty bite as the dog will asses that person as not being bigger and stronger and scarier than he is and will defend his “property” from that person. This results in a lot of children getting bitten (often on the face) and a lot of dogs being put down. It is sad, but true. I have witnessed this first hand.
That is why I made the switch to positive training myself, because most shelters lack resources and therefore lack educated trainers and teach those outdated “animal breaking” techniques to the new volunteers and workers.
They are all people with good intentions, they’re just using outdated technology. I love to see them make the switch to something that works far better. It is always hard to learn something new but it is worth it in the end because you ultimately end up saving more lives.
vivian says
Hi guys, I’ve been reading about RG because of my cocker spaniel. He is 7 years old, golden color. I am really attached to him, and treat him as a baby and spends lots of times with him (I work from home), and take him for walks, and to cafes and everywhere I go. I already went to extremes to get him with me in airplanes, trips, etc. He is mostly a sweet affectionate dog, like a cuddly little bear. But as everybody knows cockers have a certain tendency to be aggressive which he had started displaying kind of early on. It had been mainly growling in the beginning, but then he started snapping over time, until he finally bit a carer when I was overseas. It was scary cause I thought they might even try to put him down, I had to rush a friend of mine to get him out of her place same night. And now he has bit my boyfriend twice. In both situations he bit because he was confronted, very similar situation with the petsitter and boyfriend. With her: she allows dogs inside the house at all times except when family is having meals. She puts them in the backyard. Jung (my dog) hates being away from humans and alone, so, one day and he realized she was about to send him to the backyard to have lunch, he hid under the table. She went to grab him, and confronted him frontally when he growled, trying to grab and pull him out and he snapped and bit. With my boyfriend and me at home it goes the following way: 1) he gets an object to guard, usually our shoes, or his bone. 2) then he usually goes into our bedroom (where he also sleeps). 3) he gets aggressive and tries to block the way when we try to get into the bedroom. We usually ignore him, don’t even look and walk in, and he eventually settles down and accepts it (growling all the way). But the worst is when one of us: either me or my boyfriend are in the bedroom with him, and the other human tries to get in. Then he gets even more aggressive as if he is resource guarding the person who is inside – whoever it is – and the other person is not allowed in anymore. I already had to sleep in the living room more than once cause my boyfriend was sleeping, I didn’t want to wake him up and Jung would not let me in the room. The only solution for that is usually the person who is in the room to grab and control him until the person who is out come in. Once in he settles down and accepts it (not without some growling). This is usually at night. So we have to coordinate to come into the room together. Ridiculous now that I write this! But then there are the mornings! My boyfriend wakes up before, go make breakfast, have shower, etc, and then gets back into the room to get dressed. Getting back into the room after having left is a drama, Jung growls, he mostly ignores it and walk in, but sometimes the growls gets bad and he start barking then I have to try to hold and control Jung (sometimes even covering his face with the sheets) so my bf can walk in. Then by the time he is leaving the room we have another drama: Jung gets upset and aggressive when people say “good-bye” and are about to leave. He just snaps every time. I usually have to alert people to not say good-bye. When my bf was leaving this morning he started growling bad and I took him off my bed where he was sitting and growling. Then my bf decided to try to control him by claiming the territory, and pushing him away towards his own bed (he has his own bed in the room). He snapped as I was expecting. But different of what usually happens when he snaps, this time he didn’t stop when I screamed at him, he kept attacking and bit my bf ankle, who managed to grab him from the neck and put him out of the bedroom – he was attacking all the time. It was scary cause I had never seen him doing that – attacking and continuing attacking after I had screamed and interfered. After few minutes, I went out the bedroom and he was already calm and passive again, so I put him in the bathroom and later outdoors by himself in the house (with water of course). After some hour or so, I opened the door, and let him inside but blocked the way upstairs, where the rooms are. Now, I don’t really know what to do with him. We are about to move to a new place so I thought it might be a good chance to condition him to not come into the bedroom anymore. But I am afraid that is not a good solution as he might feel isolated and that might worsen the aggression. Did I mention that the slight move we make towards the bedroom he runs in front of us and gets into the bedroom before? He is always afraid we will leave him out which very rarely happens – sometimes we try to have alone time in the bedroom and he barks and scratches the door all the way. His behavior is really affecting my relationship and my life generally, cause I can’t go anywhere anymore, can’t leave him with anyone as I am afraid something will happen. Just for the note: my bf loves him also, and treats him as a baby too. We both spend a lot of time and energy into making sure he gets all attention, love, exercise, etc. But lately we can’t even have time by ourselves. If anyone has any experience with something similar and can point me out some “solution”, I will be very happy to hear and try anything. I am really afraid something worst will end up happening. Btw, we are based in Brazil atm, and I’ve talked to few people but havent found anyone with experience on this yet, so I am trying doing my own research also.
Thanks!
Kristi says
Interesting reading your post and all the comments. We have a Beagle whom we have had since 9 weeks, her resource guarding issue has become so extreme we are seriously considering giving her away. The intensity has crept up to a dangerous point at 10 months. She is only interested in stolen objects, socks, remotes, phones, which we try desperately to keep out of her reach, but occasionally fail. We use gloves to get them away but she remains furious and attacks me lunging and biting for a minute or so after removal. She also can become agressive when we try to correct her, make her stop chewing or get her off the couch. We’ve all been bitten, skin breaking bitten by her. We are working with a trainer but we are not sure we will ever feel comfortable with her alone with our 5 and 7 year old children. We are sad and frustrated because we feel like we have ruined the dog, never anticipating this kind of agression, and now we’re not sure how long it will be before she can become a trusted member of the family. Any thoughts on the success rate with this when you have young children who just want to love their dog and forget easily why they can’t do certain things?
Karen says
My 5 yr old neutered male lab doesn’t have a problem sharing his bones or food with people. You can take a bone, food, etc right out of his mouth with no issues. We have been having problems with him ‘guarding’ us and relatives from our 9 mo old lab puppy. We have been taking him for behavioral training and they tell us to try to prevent attacks by watching for signs before an attack. Most of the time there is no warning. It is so random it makes it hard to catch before he attacks the pup. No growl, no snarling, just a lunge and he is on him. It sounds like he is trying to maul the poor guy. Twice he has punctured the skin. We are beside ourselves since it looks like we may have to surrender one of them for their own safety. Any insight would be extremely appreciated!!
Karen says
In addition to my previous post about the 5 yr lab and 9 mo old lab puppy…. I forgot to mention that they love to run together, play and at times sleep nose to nose. They wait for each other to go outside. And after what seems to be a vicious attack, the older dog is adamant about “checking up” on the younger dog. He will approach the pup, tail wagging and sniffing as if he is making sure the pup is OK. Again, any insight on this situation will be deeply appreciated!
Karen says
Great article! My situation is little different……
My 5 yr old neutered male lab doesn’t have a problem sharing his bones or food with people. You can take a bone, food, etc right out of his mouth with no issues. We have been having problems with him ‘guarding’ us and our relatives from our 9 mo old lab puppy. We have been taking him for behavioral training and they tell us to try to prevent attacks by watching for signs before an attack. Most of the time there is no warning. It is so random it makes it hard to catch before he attacks the pup. No growl, no snarling, just a lunge and he is on him. It sounds like he is trying to maul the poor guy. He has punctured the skin on two different occasions.
After what sounds like a vicious attack, the older dog is adamant about “checking up” on the younger dog. He will approach the pup, tail wagging and sniffing as if he is making sure the pup is OK. We don’t know what to do anymore. We are beside ourselves since it looks like we may have to surrender one of them for their own safety
I must mention that they love to run together, play and at times sleep nose to nose. They wait for each other to go outside together. (they run free in my fenced yard). Any insight would be extremely appreciated!!
Ruth says
Is there a dog-dog article on working with resource guarding?
Betsy Cambareri says
I have a puppy that I got at 11 wks old. Shortly thereafter, he showed guarding behavior when my adult dogs would approach me and he was laying at my feet. I have now found out that both his mother and grandmother did/do, guarding their humans from other dogs – fine with people, though. When I was making the choice to bring this pup home, I expressed to my breeder friend how important a good temperament was to me and asked if the dam had any issues, and she didn’t mention this hereditary tendency to guard their people. I have had people say that resource guarding “is not a temperament issue.” Seems to me it is part of their temperament to be guardy. Is this a semantics issue?
Vince says
Hello ,
I have a question
I am going through dog training academy, and we are doing a case study
We have a dog that is RG and has already bitten members of the family
I like the idea of using kibble in dropping kibble in the bowl and for treats, but the family feeds the dog wet food.
I was planning on having them use kibble , but if they do wet food, how can they “toss” wet or canned food around and still keep a safe distance?
Thanks
Vince
Janice Gerard says
This is all really interesting – I am particularly interested in comments on people guarding. Spike is an intensive guarder (of me, mainly, but also my husband and possibly our other dog) from other dogs . No close contact is required – he escalates into full blown tantrums and attack mode at the mere sight of other dogs (some can be 100m away or he can just smell them and this produces the huffling, barking and jumping about). With others its when they get close enough for eye contact, even though the other dog is doing nothing other than walking with its owner towards us (on the other side of the street).
Spike was in a rescue for more than 2 years and in that time was re-homed but then returned to the rescue for killing a cat (he has an off-the-scale prey drive). We have no issues with any other form of guarding – toys, dead stuff, food, beds, attention – he willingly and quite submissively defers to us. We walk him in a headcollar and I suspect that this may not actually be helping (because of the restricting effect) but it’s the only way I can control him when I have my other dog with me (they weigh 35kg each and I weigh about 55kg). I use the ‘watch’ tactic with yummy food to divert his attention but sometimes this does not work, especially if it is one of his main nemesis dogs, or if he has already gone into the hard stare. Any comments or suggestions would be most welcome as I can’t find a solution for this extreme guarding. We will continue to manage the situation and will keep everyone safe but it’s obviously very stressful for Spike as he feels he has to guard me from everyone and everything.
Mary says
My PRT guards me & my chair (or he thinks his chair) especially when he is resting under a lap quilt. One time he even bit me through the quilt thinking I was my son who was standing next to me. I have taken away the quilt but now am hoping my husband will help with the treats idea. My husband thinks a good whack & keeping the dog on the floor works quicker!
Janice Gerard says
Mary, I am smiling at that – my 2 are way too big so it’s easy at home – dogs are not allowed on any furniture at any time and I control all the food.
Its outside that I have the problems; he is so reactive! There is definitely somehting about black dog syndrome though – Spike’s worst reactions are to black and choc labs and black spaniels. Ironic as he is a black lurcher himself…
Interestingly though since the dark mornings this year (we are into week 2 of having to walk the streets in the mornings instead of going into the fields), Spike is being more responsive to the ‘watch’ command with treats – we have been working on it now for more than 18 months every time we are out so perhaps it’s getting through…..liver and venison cake is the only thing that can keep his attention although its not 100%.
Nicole says
Thank you so much! I loved the book “The Other End of the Leash,” and it never occurred to me that you might have a blog. I was just looking for some helpful hints to address the beginnings of RG in my 2 year old pit mix Daisy (we just got a second puppy), and this was the top search result. I didn’t even look at the blog title, but as I was reading I thought “I really love this! It reminds me of that book I read!” Anyway, thanks for all your help and for your very sympathetic yet pragmatic tone. You’re such an excellent resource.
Lexa says
So here’s the thing – I have an 8 year old Kerry Blue Terrier – has always guarded his food but we have got him to a point where he does not hiss or snarl when we walk by his bowl while eating, although no chance of taking bowl away from him mid-eat without exposing oneself to serious injury. Last weekend we gave him a bone knuckle for the first time ever as I thought it might help keep his teeth free of tartar – we put him in a separate field. He became a dog possessed, hissing, snarling, growling if we came within even 6 feet of him. It was pretty terrifying I wondered how we would ever get him away from the bone. After about 3 hours he was panting with exhaustion from his obsessive gnawing on the bone. We managed to get him away by calling him to give him his normal evening food. He trotted out of the field and into the house like a lamb and I dived into the field to retrieve the bone. What I don’t understand is why the bone produced such a reaction – we feed him raw – so it was not the meat. Guess the only solution is no more bones!
a little person says
Hello!
So… how DID you convince that dog to hand over the carcass?
Martin says
Hi Dr. McConnell,
I find your article very relevant. I would like your opinion of what is behind my dog’s behavior. Do you believe it is “resource guarding”? How would you modify your training instructions to address his behavior?
Thank you,
Martin
Martin says
Hi Dr. McConnell,
I found your article very relevant. I would like your opinion regarding whether my dog’s behavior is a form of resource guarding, or some other behavioral problem. Any suggestions regarding how to address/correct this behavior are most welcome!
Tucker is an 18 month old male Border/Healer. He is not neutered yet. He is a very energetic pleasant dog. He does have a strong need to harass our cat but he has not hurt the cat. Tucker was my son’s dog but when the dog was a puppy my son left for college. He is now very attached to me. He follows me everywhere when I am home. When I am not home my wife and other son play with him, walk him, etc… He is perfectly fine with them, content and pleasant. Beginning about 6 weeks ago the dog began acting differently when I am home, however. Now whenever my wife or EITHER of my sons get close to me the dog growls, gets close to me and stays between me and whoever is approaching me. (The dog could have been playing with them shortly before I got home.) This behavior can occur when I’m standing in the kitchen, lying on my bed or sitting on a chair or sofa in the den and the Tucker is near me. Regardless of where I am, when my wife or my son’s approach me Tucker gets closer to me and growls. (Mind you this does not happen EVERY time, but it does happen MANY times my wife or my son approach me when the Tucker is near me.) If they continue to come closer he growls louder, shows his teeth and even nipped at my son once. He did not break skin but he left teeth marks. I firmly tell Tucker to stop and tell him is is being bad but it doesn’t stop him from growling, etc. I have to put him in his crate until he calms down. When I let him out of the crate, the Tucker sometimes Tucker will play ball with my son in the same room as I’m in as of nothing had occurred. Other times, however, he will come by my side and repeat his behavior if my son or wife approach me.
I don’t know if this is resource guarding, protectiveness (altho my wife and/or son aren’t threatening me) or some other form of possessive behavior. I have to think that it’s possessiveness related, since the dog is not afraid of my wife or sons when I am not home and they are not threatening me when they approach me. In any case, I need to stop this behavior. I am more concerned how the dog would respond if someone he was less familiar with than my wife or son’s approached me.
I am very anxious to hear any ideas on how I might implement your “resource guarding” training in order to stop my dog from acting this way.
Jennifer says
We have a 2yr old English Cocker Spaniel (Angus), that RG everything but bumans. Toys, water bowls, food (that’s a big one–90% of all fights in our house happen because food was somehow involved)
Angus is CRAZY smart, all other humans love him, and he is always the best behaved whenever we take him anywhere. However, his brothers (also cockers) all despise him because he is a bully. If one of the dogs walks past his kennel & he’s in it, he pitches a fit. If one of the dogs walks past the multi-pet water bowl, Angus flips out and tears off after the poor unsuspecting dog. He doesn’t give up either. It has gotten better though–I can get him to make eye contact with me & simply say, “knock it off”, but eye contact MUST be made. One of our cockers loathes him so much that he’s got a personal vendetta out on Angus. We have to keep the separated indoors at all times.
I would gladly take any advice. I had been doing one-on-one training with Angus, and I broke my back so now our training has been put on hold….. I am the discliplinaran in our home and I feed the dogs too. I’ve actually been hand feeding Angus b/c he eats his food so fast he throws it up. They all eat together in the same room, and they all sleep together–thought if I instilled a pack mentality that would help.
Noha El Sadr says
Hi, I have 2 pekingese and I think they are guarding dogs according to your article, the problem that I think they are guarding me from my mother who lives with us in the house. Whenever she is alone with them there is no problem at all and she feeds them and everything. But, once I’m home .. she can’t walk around the house without getting barked on aggressively. I tired to stop that by treats, by shouting by talking but nothing .. she moves, they bark .. I told her once to shout at them and if they stop barking she should treat treat them, again nothing.
Please tell me how to end that
charlie says
I have a 5 year old pit bull that all of a sudden got resource guarding, of my granddaughters bed. She would not get out of the bed and growled tried to bite me showing her teeth. I have never dealt with this type of behavior ever in my life and I have owned a lot of dogs in my time. My granddaughter grew up with this dog but it got to the point that the dog was trying to even bite my wife. If I would have gotten rid of my granddaughters dog it would have devastated her. So this is what I did. I read everything I could about resource guarding. I then bought a battery operated training collar with remote control. I have used them in the past on dogs that would not come when called and it worked great for that. I had no idea if it would work in this case. Well I put the collar on her and she went into my granddaughters room like she did every night. In the morning I went to get her to put her outside. She lunged at me again attempting to bite me. At this time I told her “NO”. She continued to growl and again try to bite me. I then hit the button on the remote. She then jumped off the bed. She didn’t know what happened. I told her to go outside but she wouldn’t , so I hit the remote button again. At that time she went out outside. For one week I would not let her in my granddaughters bedroom.I kept the training collar on the dog for two weeks just in case she acted up again, but I didn’t have to use it again. I now can let my granddaughters dog into her bedroom at night. In the morning all I have to do is call the dogs name and she gets out of the bed and goes outside. I have had no problems with this dog since . Bottom line I know some people don’t believe in using training collars, all I can say is it worked for me and my granddaughter still has the dog she loves so much.
Rosemary Kirby says
We have adopted an 8 year old cockapoo, Maggie, and have struggled now for a year + to deal with her issues. The organization was not entirely honest with us about those issues but we are her third home and I guess we just don’t want to give up in her.
She has until now only guarded food in a mild way. In the last few weeks our lives have changed a bit with me going away for two days to look after a grandchild. Maggie has taken to guarding food badly. I mean her food dish, any treat except the tiniest ones, unopened bags of dog food, the plastic containers the food and treats are stored in, and our own groceries! She is also guarding furniture, in particular our bed. Woe betide that knee of us gets out of bed in the night. She moves up to claim the abandoned pillow and will growl, snarl, lunge at us to keep,us away. Our solution for now, while we seek any and all advice and research like crazy, has been to keep her leashed so we can grab her safely, and physically remove her from the bed. She will not be allowed to sleep there at all. Same with other furniture, although we will invite her to the couch. It helps with the food too. Is just not permitting her to growl and snarl enough? She’s fine once the object is removed or she’s away from it. Is she too old to be re-trained? She is not an only dog. We have a male cockapoo, same age, no issues whatsoever. Delightful personality.
Lastly, our vet feels strongly that she has been abused in her other home(s). We don’t want to give up in her but we can’t leave her with anyone so we don’t ever get away. We are very stressed and need help.
Barb says
Hi Pat,
I was wondering if you have a handout for the 7 steps for the resource guarding? I’d love to have it to give to my students who have issues with their dog.
If you don’t, is it ok if I copy them to a handout of my own, giving you the credit of course.
Thanks!
ibs c treatment says
Second, exercise is an excellent stress-reliever.
Jena says
Question. My bulldog gets weird and possessive about licking the carpet. If I try to get her to stop she will get extremely aggressive and bite. It is just a carpet rug so there is hardwood underneath which her slobber will ruin the hardwood. I just did the chicken toss and it worked great! But I can’t eventually take the carpet away from her so what do you recommend for something like this?
Jenn says
Question: I am a trainer professionally and have dealt with RG before, but typically the dogs I have worked with RG food, or a specific toy, item etc. I have a dog about to come in now that picks random items with no apparent value to guard and switches item 8 to 10 times a day; things like a leaf, a gum wrapper, a hole he has licked in the wall, etc. Is it common for them to RG such random things are is this something else do you think? Very odd..
Amanda says
I have been looking for something to help me with my 4 year old Maltese mix. I rescued him in March of 2017 and he has pretty severe resource guarding. I have been bit several times, hard enough to break skin twice, where I’m left with no choice but to take something from him. In both instances it was chicken bones, once from the garbage (I learned quickly) and once near the dumpster someone had dropped and not picked up.
This is the first post I have come across that has useful information on how to work with him in slow, manageable steps. I am looking forward to trying this. He as had some individual training lessons but I don’t think the trainer adequately understood the significance of his resource guarding she only used toys to demonstrate getting him to “trade”. He will drop most toys for a regular treat. But any sort of human food or bone has been a no go in getting him to trade unless I have meat on hand which I don’t always. I eventually want to be at a point where I don’t have to always trade and that he will just allow me to approach even if I don’t immediately have something better on hand as this is not always logical, like if we are out walking.
Anyway I just wanted to say thank you for the well written post and I am hopeful that this will finally help me and my little guy.
Trek fetters says
I like the technicians explained in my training experience I worked with the no, drop it and leave commands.
sandy says
hi
i wonder if you can help me with my problem. my 9 month old rescue has just started snapping and “going for” other dogs. it started in the dog park. if i sat on the bench and he was close to me, when another dog came over, he would snap at them and go crazy. i stopped sitting and didn’t allow him on the benches. then i discovered when my friends and i rented a house together, he would do it when he was in his spot on the sofa, or his spot under the table.
he LOVES daycare but i have had to stop him going as he has snapped and started a fight with other dogs near the gate. (they take dogs for relief walks, he was leaving with one of the staff and another dog walked over) it happened twice so they said he should take a break. so its not just related to me which is what i thought at first. he doesn’t resource guard any toys and is quite happy running around in the parks with other dogs and balls, it just seems like certain places or areas?? super hard to work out where it may happen. im now nervous in the elevator in my building for instance in case it happens there. any suggestions would be hugely appreciated .
Lori says
If you are still watching this blog comment, any suggestions you can toss my way? (will be getting “Mine!” to see if I can pull anything. I have a senior Bernese cross (small-ish at 60# not neutered for age and HW+ reasons) and a <2yr Great Pyr foster (neutered in August). Neither has any trouble with any other dog in the house (all spay/neutered).
They seem to be resource guarding ME. I'm trying the cue "no protect," voicing off "eh eh" and not petting either when they do it, but petting them separately later. Its the only time I have to keep them separate. Any tips ANYONE has to offer, appreciated. lorijacobson67@yahoo.com
I've dealt with other resource guarding behaviors before and was always successful fairly quickly. Right now, I'm at a loss.
Trisha says
Regretably, this kind of resource guarding is pretty common. I call it the “owner as best bone in the world” syndrome. It makes sense really… there’s only one of you and who wants to share cuz you’re so cool? Karen London and I wrote about a treatment in Feeling Outnumbered that is also shown on the Feeling Outnumbered DVD, called Belle of the Ball. Check it out on my website. Briefly, you teach that dog–in a step by step fashion–that dog A gets great stuff if you pet dog B. Let us know if it helps.
Charles Couturier says
I think resource guarding is a learned behaviour. Dog tries (by instinct), it works, he keeps learning.
My dog as a pup, tried, it really didn’t work, she learned that it doesn’t work, so she really stopped doing it.
It could be that simple. Knowing her as I now know her (after more than 2 years living together), she’s really your extremely moral dog, which won’t compete with any dog or any human, except in one instance: if she’s digging a hole (Shiba Inu), and she’s sure there’s some critter there, I let her do. 15min after, if a dog shows up wondering what she’s doing, she’ll instinctively defend her hole (which I find extra cute by the way).
Now fun thing is that, I can at any time, recall her, or ask her to move away from that hole, and she’s cool with this.
Beth Smith says
I have a rescued foxhound who joined us last — he is 2, German Sh is 3 and very active, but very laid back, Blue Heeler, 12, is arthritic, likes the foxhound, but not the GSH. The G Sh is very submissive to her.
The main problem is that when the foxhound and GSH are outside together and something comes along (loud truck especially like fed ex, dog, cats, motorcycle, etc), they both bark. THe G Sh is more excited and the FOxhound is in protective mode. If a delivery driver tries to hand a box over the fence, the G Sh will jump up and say hi while the foxhound will try to take the hand.
He also repeatedly runs at the G Sh and snaps in a very annoyed tone. The G Sh either ignores him or tries to chase him in a playful manner. Sometimes, it gets pretty scary sounding. Certain times of the day, I only let out one at a time. After the “thing” has moved on, they are buds again.
The G Sh is very sensitive to a slight jingle of the key chain on her laser…all I need to do is jingle it out the door and she will run to the door (90-95%) time and I will let her chase the laser for a while. But sometimes, if a dog actually walks up, she won”t react and it is scary to me. What if he actually bites her….what will happen…a dog fight scares me. The old dog has bitten her when she grovels too much and licks her too much and she just gets really upset with these crying yelping sounds…and goes to pout.
The Foxhound will also steal almost everything she plays with…she just lets him, like it’s not worth it to her.When they play hard in the yard, it looks like she is the boss.
Any suggestions? I have been trying to use chicken and cheese in a recall with the foxhound and it works sometimes, but not in an escalated situation like fed ex delivery or stray dog.
Any help would be great!
Sue Clarke says
“Resource guarding” and anxiety in dogs. This behaviour is often demonstrated by my daughter’s dog, a border collie of 9 months old, largely towards other dogs. Do you have any solutions to offer? If so, can you please direct me to appropriate resources to assist with the management of the problem. Many thanks.
Trisha says
Order Mine! from Dogwise.com. It’s great! Good luck…
Louise Henry says
any resources you might suggest regarding resource guarding of a person? Our beagle will not let our other dog anywhere near me when I’m home…it starts off with a stare then escalated to the two dogs snarling and barking at each other as neither will back down. The one dog seems to enjoy instigating thevusdue, by waking up to the beagle who is guarding me
Lucy says
I need some help/advice please. My partner has a German shepherd and I have a labrador, Co x (15 weeks) and a miniature poodle (6 months) Me and my partner have been together for nearly 2 years and in that time we have introduced the labrador to the German shepherd. The other 2 came later on. They are both girls and will be 3 this year. Everything had been going fine and they were the best of friends, but a few weeks ago the gsd attacked my lab for no reason what so ever. She will also attack the puppies too but my lab gets most of it and it’s becoming a daily basis.
When my partner is at work they are fine and I have no problem with them. But as soon as he comes home she will rag my lab around. This morning it happened 3 times and she was foaming at the mouth. My lab was/is petrified she hides under the coffee table and refuses to come out. My partner took the gsd to work with him this morning but it’s just going to start all over again when she comes home. I’ve been crying all morning as I have a feeling I’m going to have to rehome my dogs if I can’t stop this behaviour. I’ve found 3 puncher wounds on my labs neck so far. What can I do?
Trisha says
Lucy, I am so sorry that you are going through this. I know how hard it can be. If you can get a truly great trainer or behaviorist in right away it would be fantastic. Nothing like an objective, and skilled perspective to help you work through this. The only things I can say is that you absolutely have to keep the dogs apart for now. Period. Before the gsd comes home, create a plan in which the dogs simply can not be together at any moment in time. It might mean crates, gates, two sets of door shut in between, whatever it takes. This will protect your poor terrorized lab, and give you some space to take a breath and figure out your next steps. Good luck, hang in there.
DJ says
My cute 8 year old cavapoo is a serious RG dog! He’s bitten me about 5 different times. I’ve started to see the signs ahead of time, but often by then I know I’m going to get attacked soon thereafter. He is super affectionate and fluffy and fun 95% of the time, but when he gets fixated on an item, like a paper plate with crumbs on it, it’s the start of a stand off. His eyes get large and bulging and dialated. He snarls. He turns into a dog full of rage and anger, and ge forgets he loves his mommy! The last bad bite was about 10 months ago, when I went to shut the bedroom light off. He decided he owned the sock I as walking towards, so he lunged at my barefoot and bit my foot up with several chomps! I know you will say it’s time he go to doggie heaven but I just love him so much. He always shows remorse afterwards. My foot has a nice scar right on top, and I was lucky that time but oh the pain. He was from a puppy mill which we learned after we owned him a while. I can’t figure out how to stop him from being a Cujo! We had him in classes, which he passed both series. I’m hoping we find a good behaviorist before he acts like a pirhanna again! PS I do find him les bitey when he’s tired. We had a wonderful Goldendoodle nam d Dakota. Tall and white and so smart! She had a stroke and passed at 12 yrs old. The cavapoo was kind to her…. mostly.
Trisha says
Yes yes, please do work with a behaviorist or progressive trainer who knows how to use positive reinforcement to change behavior patterns. And be sure that there are no physical issues going on, including behavior changes related to diet. Good luck and stay safe!
Rikke says
I just came across your blog post while doing a little research on the subject. Over the course of the last month or so, my 4 y/o female English mastiff suddenly started displaying resource guarding behavior at first to the other resident dog and now to me. The most recent and concerning situation set itself up in her crate, where she is fed. I had fed her and she remained in her crate happily chewing an old chew toy. I opened the door to her crate to remove the empty bowl and as I reached down I noticed she stopped chewing, stiffened and showed her teeth. It progressed to a slight head lunge (she was laying down) as I removed the bowl. Baffled and curious I lingered and tested the situation a little (prob not the smartest move on my part) and reached down towards the bone and got the same reaction but with a little more assertiveness on her part. Not sure if she guarding the empty bowl or her bone in the initial episode but it’s possible it’s both. I’ll probably get her into the vet just to rule out any other medical issue making her cranky. She’s an anxious girl generally (fear of men) and has always been more in the submissive side so I was shocked when she nipped at the more historically dominant (but now elderly) dog when she dared to lick her bowl while she was in her kennel with the door open. Anyway, I like your approach as it aligns with what I have seen from most of the trainers I have used in the past. I’m not above getting the help of a trainer but I’ll be testing the waters with this approach for a little bit first and see how things go.
Crystal Dubois says
Great Article.
Or maybe off subject, yet why not have any Great Pyrenees any longer? My past pooch was a GP salvage, and I love finding out about how you prepared and communicated with yours.
Mike B says
Good read my dog Rocky has a little RG when it comes to me may try some of your techniques to see if it helps thanks for the blog.
Anna says
What a great article, thank you! We have a Dutch shepherd who is resource guarding treats/bones, spaces, and toys, and we urgently have to work on this. I am going to start implementing the training plan you outlined first thing tomorrow!
Sarah and Mags says
On the hunt for any ABA-related info to help me with my little RG and came across this, thanks Trisha.
Maggie’s RG started with preventing other dogs from coming near me, and is now beginning to generalise to the environment outside of our home (barking and growling when hearing others bark).
I am scouring the internet for strategies on how to work on this; is it simply a case of finding a willing friend with a dog and working on some counter-conditioning? Would I be able to use food in these scenarios or would it make the guarding worse? She’s not a food guarder at all, mind.
Maggie is able to “stay” whilst I walk over to a dog and stroke it, in anticipation of a reinforcer. Yet I’m unsure of the next step…
Melinda Schneider says
I’m struggling with a little foster (cattle dog mix, 16 pounds) who resource guards laps. He’s fine until another dog comes very close (within a foot) of him. I’m assuming I should have the person holding him deliver treats as I approach with a leashed dog and stay more than a foot away to start. I’m kind of thinking I want to start with an Open Bar/Closed Bar game at greater distance so that Paddington begins to make the connection of “see dog, get great treats” before we even work on closer approaches. I had a trainer here yesterday who recommended that as soon as he lip lifts or growls, the holder should dump him on the ground. I think this is wrong as it is punitive and may result in him feeling all the more insecure (he’s not a confident dog) about other dogs coming close. It did seem to work after just one repetition but what’s going on in his psyche and will the improvement last? Might he think that the dumping only applies to that one trainer and he will still guard other laps? I much prefer your idea of using CC to change his emotional response. None of this was occurring when I first got him; the RG didn’t appear until after he’d been placed; he was returned for this reason. He is fine around all food. I can have him with any number (1-4) of other dogs and hand out treats by saying each dog’s name prior to delivery. I can do a group scatter feed outside. He is fine with all of this. It’s only about people and laps. Most pronounced with laps but he will also RG when he’s standing close to a person and a dog comes near. Interestingly, he has never RG’d ME, only other people. A bit of a puzzle… Wishing I could have you do a consult! I’ll be passing this article along to whoever ends up adopting Paddington.
Trisha says
Melinda: What a lucky dog to have you as a foster! I get your discomfort with the “dumping him on the ground” strategy. (I assume, hope, that the trainer just said “Just stand up.” That kind of punishment can indeed work, and sometimes fast, but it also can elicit other behaviors you don’t want and interfere with your relationship. (ie: “Other dog approaches me on my person’s lap and something horrible happens. Hate it when other dog get anywhere near us.) I’d support your plan for CC from much farther away in the beginning, long before he lifts a lip. Be sure to switch who is holding and whose lap he is on, that’s important for him to generalize it. Keep us posted!
Melinda F Schneider says
Thank you so much, Trisha!
Actually, much to my dismay, the other trainer actually pushed Paddington off her lap. It was quite dramatic and, I’m sure, both startling and a bit traumatizing to the dog.
My biggest fear is, just as you suggest, that he will decide that other dogs nearby mean danger!
I learned this lesson many years ago (I’m 64). I was around 40 years old (so yeah, long time ago, lol) and had a lovely border collie. This was when so many trainers were still of the push-pull-punish ilk. I was training my BC for competitive obedience and, on the advice of the instructor, using the methods of the day (positive training was just starting to creep into most people’s consciousness). My BC was become more and more reactive over time. During that period, I attended a workshop called “Are We Having Fun Yet?” (You may be able to figure out who the presenters were based on their title!) While their dogs seemed to be happy, willing workers, the presenters were all about the “motivational pop” and by the end had most of us (me included) ready to purchase a prong collar.
My first real introductions to positive training were several years later when I discovered agility. But even agility, in those early years, was not as positive as I now would like. Too many trainers would pop dogs up on a full height seesaw, willing to lure him/her across while all the while s/he was shaking; most instructors, I hope, are doing better now as better methods have been developed/discovered.
In any event, I continued to look for better ways to train and started following certain trainers, you among them. I had a real breakthrough in my own education 8 years ago when I adopted a dog described as “feral” by the shelter where she was taken after being trapped. I’m not sure that that word is accurate for this particular dog. Although she was clearly Very Afraid of People, she came around fairly quickly and now, with careful consideration of where we are going and who is judging, holds titles in tricks, Rally Obedience, and agility (all low levels, but still…wow). She is the love of my life, the beat of my heart. A formerly feral dog will not be one that lets you get away with even low levels of “correction!”
Two years ago, I started fostering a truly feral dog. Born to a feral mother, she also ended up in a trap and taken to a shelter. I agreed to foster and evaluate to see if she would ever be able to live in a pet home. (The initial foster thought she might need behavioral euthanasia, something which I support in some cases.) The second girl is equally remarkable! I adopted her in July 2020 despite the fact that I was unable to touch her during that first 6 months. And that remains true today. Perk will not allow touch unless it is initiated by her. I have taught her a nose-to-hand target, she plays lots of confidence building games, she knows “sit,” “down,” “in-the-house” (but not a crate yet as that is still too scary!). I play by Perk’s rules. Even though she will still back away if I reach or move in her direction, she sleeps on my bed, performs individual agility obstacles, and jumps all over me from behind when her dinner is being fixed. Obviously, I cannot clip her nails so I taught her to use a scratch board even before I knew they were “a thing!” I would never place Perk in a pet home, (she remains a significant flight risk) but for a trainer, she is a dream because of how much she can teach me!
Thank you, especially, for the reminder to help Paddy to generalize. I live alone (with 4 dogs + fosters) with a fenced yard full of training and agility equipment. I’ve recruited several people to come help with Paddy’s rehab. I’m planning to drape a sheet over my A-frame so we have an easy “closed bar” place for the helper dog to be. The helper dog will come out from behind the sheet while both dogs get rapid fire treats; and when the helper dog goes out of sight, Paddington’s treats will disappear (though he’ll still get to remain on the person’s lap). My remaining question: should the lap person withdraw patting/attention when the bar closes? Or is it okay for him/her to still pat Paddington? I want to be sure to make an impression on him via closing access to treats but I’m unsure if ALL reinforcement needs to end? I don’t want him to see this as punishing in any way.
Thanks so much, Trisha!
Trisha says
Wonderful stories Melinda, thanks for sharing them. I’m curious what others might say, but I’m all for doing some petting even when the bar is ‘closed.’ I just like the idea of it all feeling fun and relaxing. But I’d pay careful attention and be ready to modify if you think it would help. Others?
Laura says
Any suggestions that you can offer would be greatly appreciated! We recently fostered and then adopted a 4th dog, who is a spayed female 14 year old 51 lb pit bull mix. She has cancer and after her vet exam through the rescue group, the doctor estimates that she’ll be with us for about a year. She is also hard of hearing, but will react to a loud voice or the other dogs barking. Her past life was a difficult one, but despite that, she is a very loving dog. (Her name is Bear.) Given her past, we’re not surprised that she resource guards food. She will growl, bark, and lunge if another dog even walks past her food bowl or a bag of garbage outside the can, but will wait patiently for her turn to get a treat with the other 3 dogs. She will share water bowls (there are 5 throughout the house) and beds (there are 10 throughout the house). She does not have any interest in toys or chews. She’s been with us since the beginning of November and as she becomes more comfortable in our home, the resource guarding has gotten worse. She has also started to see me as “high value” and will try to exert her influence on our German Shepherd to move from his spot in the kitchen while I’m making dinner or doing the dishes. (I’m his person and to him, “high value”. He is also special needs and very timid and submissive.) He generally stays away from Bear, but she follows him around, and I usually step in to give him a break, since she can’t hear his warning growl to stay away.
Steps we are taking: Dogs are gated from one another when eating and all food bowls are picked up before the dogs interact with one another again. Bear and our German Shepherd are never together unsupervised. I try to spend time with just our German Shepherd to help him build confidence. My husband and I are clear leaders and interact with all our dogs using commands (ex: sit to be petted or get a treat, recall exercises from the front door when they bark, praise using the same language when they are interacting appropriately, etc.). We have established routines for feeding, the morning before leaving for work, and when we have to leave the house. We have an upcoming appointment for Bear with our vet to better manage her arthritis pain and to see about any other health issues that may be impacting her behavior. We have worked with a behaviorist in the past and I will contact her after the holidays.
We know how to avoid the resource guarding behavior, but would like to work on reducing the behavior since we’d like the dogs to be together without constant oversight. We’d like to resume having a pet sitter visit during the day, but can’t if there is tension between even two of our dogs. It’s also difficult to have family over, since they’re not always aware of what “dog language” to watch for and could unintentionally create an issue.
Specific questions: All our dogs, except Bear, know “leave it” and “drop it”. How do you teach “leave it” and “drop it” to a hard of hearing dog? How do you teach “go lay down” to a hard of hearing dog? (We think these commands may be useful in training for resource guarding and her following our German Shepherd around.) Since Bear is so reactive to other dogs near her food (or anything with food in it), is there a step we can start with before walking another dog near her while there is food?
All of our dogs are special needs rescues and we believe very strongly that all dogs deserve a second chance. Every new circumstance is an opportunity for us to learn so that we are better prepared to help them. (I’ve read “The Other End of the Leash” and based on the comments on this article, have just ordered “Feeling Outnumbered”!) Thank you for your help!
Nicole Windsor says
Great article and I will definitely peruse your website for more on the topic. I have an 8-month old English Cream Golden Retriever who displays mild resource guarding, but interestingly tonight actually snapped at me (and my hand) when trying to move her face away from some weeds that she apparently wanted to nibble on (note we had a visit to the urgent vet last Saturday morning because we suspect she ate a hibiscus bloom which caused nausea and vomiting; don’t want a repeat!). She also had a tennis ball that she had in her mouth but voluntarily put down beside her (apparently she decided I wasn’t a threat to the ball). She’s done this a couple of times before – among other behaviors that have convinced me that she sees me as a littermate – not her alpha. Just looking for remedies for RG in an adolescent ECGR! Thanks!
Alexandra Collins says
I have 2 male American bulldog puppies ages 9 month Ct and Khan both from the same litter I’ve had them both from birth I am their mothers keeper aswell. Both generally get on very well but only recently I’ve noticed that Khan has started showing signs of resource guarding but only with bones, new toys including tug of war ropes, soft toys etc , any old toys he’s fine even with old bones when their both feeding absolutely fine and when given treats fine. I always separate them when given bones now or chewy toys Khan is secured in the crate and Ct on their bed (this is where they take themselves for their bones etc, only a few days ago khan physically attacked Ct causing them to both go for each other viciously and fighting. I then removed all his triggers new chewy toys, bones soft toys and Ct’s aswell as khan would take his aswell. I gave them the same toys bones etc, Ct and their mum don’t do any resource guarding and will happily share their bones and toys with each other and khan so I don’t understand why khans started displaying this behaviour and really would like some advice on how I can stop and prevent this resource guarding so they can once again play happily together with their toys, I’ll be giving them their bones and dog chews separate like i always do I just want stop the possessiveness with their toys,