In August of 2011, I wrote an article titled “The Nail Wars,“ about the value of a “grinder” (also called a Dremel, but that’s a brand name) when trimming a dog’s nails. I’m updating and revisiting it here, after a friend mentioned that nail trims were a big issue at her house. Now that I have three sets of nails to trim, I find myself thinking about it again too.
Right now I am using the clippers for Tootsie and Maggie, and the Dremel for Willie. Tootsie came (at age 7 or 8, from a puppy mill) hating the clippers, and acting like my Lassie used to ((“I’M DYING!” her face said to me) when I got out the clippers. I used the conditioning method so well described by Sophia Yin in this great video, and Tootsie now tolerates nail trims, although I won’t pretend that she likes them.
I know nothing about Maggie’s experience with nail trimming (she came at about 14 months of age), but she was wonderfully easy to condition when I got her. I used a simple step-by-step procedure, linking food with holding her paw (which many dogs dislike by itself, no hand holding in the dog world), then the appearance of the clipper, then touching the clipper to her nail, then an actual clip. Each action occurred either while getting treats or right before a treat.
Maggie got a treat as I held her paw. As she ate the treat I’d move my hand down to expose a nail, then stopped when she was done eating.
Treats also came as the clipper was introduced. I took it away when she was done with the treat.
Notice Maggie looking away as I am about to trim another nail. This is a critically important signal–I suspect that she dislikes the “click” sound of the clipper as it clips off a nail.
Because I had no assistant as in Dr. Yin’s video, Maggie got the treat immediately after each clip. (The treats are visible to her here, on the other side of my leg.) Notice she is calm and compliant, but I’d much rather her mouth be open with a more relaxed expression. (FYI, that’s my finger behind her paw, not her tongue.)
This all got me thinking again about why so many dogs dislike nail trims with clippers, especially in relation to sound-sensitive dogs like Maggie. But surely there are at least three reasons:
1) They don’t like their paws held. We can counter that by starting as early as we can to counter condition it. When we first got Maggie I would hold and massage her paws while we cuddled. On occasion I’d give her treats for paw holds. She became totally relaxed about paw holding in just a few weeks.
2a & b) They don’t like the feeling of their nails being clipped. Even if they are not being “quicked,” which is painful, perhaps the feeling itself is simply aversive. Thus, they need lots of conditioning–linking tiny clips of the nail, barely visible, with high quality treats. Of course, 2b) is that once a dog has had the clipper cut off too much and go into the quick, it hurts. Dogs seem to remember being “quicked” as well as just about anything I can think of. Once it happens it’s critical to go back to the early steps of conditioning and work your way back up slowly
3) They dislike the sound of the clippers. This is exactly what I think is going on with Maggie. As time has gone on, she seems less comfortable with having her nails clipped. The click even sounds loud to me, and no one is messing with my paws. This is what I wrote about the topic in 2011:
Here’s why I think some dogs get worse with a clipper: the “click” of clippers actually makes things worse for some dogs. I first wondered about this when several clients told me that their dogs hated having their nails trimmed until they went deaf, and then didn’t care. Wow. Really? But I noticed the same thing with Pippy Tay; starting around the age of 15 years, about when her hearing started to go. When she was younger, Pippy was never aggressive about nail trims, she just acted as though having her nails done was a nightmare beyond belief. Oh yes, it was easily managed and we got through it fine, but Pippy clearly found it extremely aversive, even with the best conditioning and tons of treats. Once I switched to the grinder she completely relaxed, and would lie on her side as if being massaged when I’d say, “Let’s go to the spa!” She’d lie down and practically raise a paw. It was all I could do to not ask her to select her color and pay up before I finished the manicure.
Lassie never liked having her nails done, but appeared to be much less stressed with the grinder than the clippers. Luke and Tulip didn’t seem to mind much, so I clipped their nails because it’s faster and easier, but the device was a godsend for both Pippy and Lassie. Willie didn’t mind his nails being done at first, but after I cut into the quick once (*&$%#) he seemed to hate it. He’d tense up as if expected doom, and flinch each time the clippers made their ‘clipping’ sound. That, and my client’s dogs, got me to thinking: Could the click of a clippers condition dogs to expect something aversive as easily as something good as in Clicker Training? Why not? After all a ‘click’ is extremely effective at getting a dog’s attention. A clicking sound has an instant onset, abrupt escalation from no power to full power, and a full range of frequencies (the better to light up more acoustic receptor neurons), and few sounds are better at getting at becoming meaningful to a mammal.
That’s why I switched Willie to a grinder, and why I think I might do the same for Maggie. (I doubt I will with Tootsie, see point #3 below.)
Here’s Mr. Willie getting a treat as I turned on the grinder. I did have to get him used to the sound of it, but it seems far less aversive than the click. In part because of the structure of the sound, but also I suspect because the noise is not limited to the moment of the ‘clip.’
My interpretation of this face is: “Why don’t you just give me the treat right now instead of waiting for the digital camera that Jim has in his hands gets ready to take the next picture?”
Here are a few things I’ve learned about using the Oster grinder (dremel is a brand name, who knew?). It is adapted from my article in 2011, but still relevant and important. Be forewarned, I’m not a groomer, so groomers please, please jump in here!
1. Obviously, start slowly. First I sat down with a bowl of treats on one side, Willie lying in front of me and the grinder in the other. Holding it behind my back, I’d turn it on, give Willie a treat, turn it off. Repeat about 10 times. That was Session One. Session Two was moving the device toward Willie, as he got the treat, eventually holding a paw and moving the grinder to within an inch of a nail. In Session Three I ground 2 nails down just at tiny bit, giving him a treat between ‘grinds'(would have given them during but needed 3 hands). Then we did some more ‘Turn dremel on, Give Treat” with no contact. In session Four I trimmed an entire paw, although again only doing about half of what needed to be done. In Session Five I tried to do two paws, with lots of treat between, but that was too much. He scrambled to get up once I started on paw # 2, looking all panicky. I gently restrained him so that I could end the session rather than he, but touched the Oster to one nail, gave him 5 treats and then let him up. The next session I did one paw, took a break and did one more nail… etc, etc.
2. Be sure that the grinder spins in the direction of the nail growth, not against it. You can figure this out easily just by touching it to the nail. If it spins in the other direction it pushes the nail back into the bed and it clearly is uncomfortable for the dog. It almost bounces off the nail. If I hold my device in my right hand and move it away from the dog’s paw it seems to be best.
3. Watch out for hair, yours or your dog’s, getting caught in the rotating head. If that happens, it instantly winds up around the base of the area with the grinder on it. Not good. Although my Oster is an electric one (you can get battery operated ones too), when this happened when I first started using it shut itself off (or did I just turn it off instantly? Eeeps, not sure now!) and it never hurt anyone, but it did surprise Lassie and I a few times. Basically you need to be ever alert about keeping hair away from the rotating head. Once you get used to it it’s easy to do, but you do need to pay attention!
4. Just as in clipping, don’t take too much off at a time. One advantage of a grinder is that it is much harder to cut into the quick… you can see exactly how close you are getting, even on dogs with black nails.
5. Keep supplies handy. Keep your supplies handy, so that you can clip a nail here, and a nail there.
Some dogs may love nail clipping, buy many just tolerate clipping it, so why do every nail each session? if your supplies are close by, it’s much easier to do one nail one night, and another the next.
6. Never forget the always handy “Take your dog to the groomer or vet to get his/her nails clipped” option. For me that’s just more time and expense, so I don’t use that option, but it’s a great one if you are having trouble AND if you know a groomer who you totally trust.
Groomers? I’d love to hear your comments about nail trimming. I know some dog lovers on Facebook mentioned that your dogs love having their nails done. That’s fantastic, good for you. If your dog doesn’t, don’t feel guilty. Each dog is different and will react differently to the exact same methods. There are also at least two brands out there for medium size dogs: Oster grinders and Dremel. (I thought dremel was actually the name of the tool, but it turns out it is a brand name. See, I told you I’m not a groomer.) Any comments from groomers about which brand or method they like best?
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Wow. Spring. Wow. What can I say. It’s crazy wonderful out here right now. There’s no better illustration of that than these photos taken on Saturday by our friend Robert Strieffer, philosopher, ethicist and kick ass amateur photographer.
Here are Lady Baa Baa’s lambs frolicking, after being let out of the barn for the first time ever. They are about a week old.
The little girl is the leaper again in this shot, with grandma Lady Godiva and two of her triplets in the background.
Between lambs and spring flowers, it was pretty much a perfect weekend! Here are the leaves of wild ginger plants, unfurling in the warmth of the sun.
Laurene von Klan says
some day I’d like to see a study of hand shy dogs and leash reactivity related to grooming. I suspect dogs learn to hate being restrained and to hate human hands from their grooming experiences.
We have had a wonderful experience conditioning my mother’s chihuahua to nail clipping — the baby food in a tube works great.
I also prefer the dremel for dark toe nails. I think there is less chance of a mis-cut.
Thanks for posting this.
Genevieve Douglass says
Thank you for the thoughts on nail trimming! We are just about to get a new young puppy (9 weeks!) and we will definitely start the counter conditioning early. I was curious if you think we should hold off actually doing any clipping until after the 9 or 10 week time — the fear impression period? I don’t think his foster parents have done any clipping or counter conditioning of any kind.
Just to offer another idea to help with the noise that is non-behavioral: For our older dogs, I’ve been using cat clippers, which are small and simple in their mechanism and don’t make much sound, combined with a crystal nail file by Dog Fashion Spa (I’ve never seen one anywhere else). The file is pretty quiet, and my dogs seem to tolerate it fairly well.
Christy Paxton says
Oh my heavens those lambs are adorable!!
Before I was a trainer, I got a dog at 8 mos. who was already ruined in the nail department. It took 4 people to get his nails done (I handled the business end), and he was a 17-pound Dachshund!!
Determined to not go through that ever again, I pounded the treats into my 1-2 YO rescue Tawny as I conditioned her to the clippers. I have never had a problem, even when I hit the quick (say once a winter…) — she will literally draw her paw back momentarily, then give it back to me!! Eleven years later, she still gets a treat for every toe, and I will do that forever to make sure we never struggle. (One adjustment I’ve had to make though is that she is old now and will sit or lie down when she used to stand. Getting those back nails has become a challenge! Thinking I will have her Chill [lay on side] from now on.)
I also have made it a point to talk at length about nail clipping, tooth brushing, combing/brushing during my group classes (I spent one entire session on handling exercises to make sure everyone understood how to properly acclimate their dogs to these things).
Cathi Bunn says
Great information on nail trimming. I have 6 Tibetan Terriers and some are laid back about nail trimming and others take a lot of time and patience. I do have a trick for using a nail grinder on dogs with long hair. I pull a piece of panty hose over their nails and push the nails thru the hose keeping the hair out of the way of the grinder. Works great.
I love the photos of the lambs.
Monika & Sam says
Wonderful tips here (definitely implementing some the next time I have to groom Sam’s paws-he HATES his feet being touched). Thank you for sharing! ღ
Shari Goldfarb says
I used clippers for years until I got a pitch-black lab with pitch-black nails…at which time I panicked! I got a grinder and Emma got used to it fairly quickly (cookies made everything go easier for her!), and I had the comfort of knowing that I could avoid “quicking” her the vast majority of the time, and even if I blew it and got the quick, it would be a tiny nick and not a massive bleeder like in the bad old days!
Susan Garrett posted a video a few years back on how to turn nail trims into a fun game: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dzYGxgdY6eE I’ve never managed this level of fun with my pack, but nail time isn’t the worst thing ever either. And with the grinder, we get all the nails done fairly quickly so we can move onto more enjoyable activities.
Vicki in Michigan says
When I learned how to clip nails with my first dog (back in pre-Dremel days), she fussed and carried on like I was really hurting her. We did clipped anyway, but … sheesh.
Then, one time, I wanted to make a paw-print on fabric, with paint. I needed to clip the hair between her toes, to get a nice clean print. I used little-kid Fiskars, so I couldn’t stab her. Darned if she didn’t fuss and carry on, exactly as if I were using clippers on her nails. I know that hair-cutting does not hurt. It may be annoying, but it does not hurt………..
That was when I figured out she was being a diva, and that was the last day I felt sorry for her.
The thing that seemed to help most was singing to her. I made up this dirge-like song, about “SHE was always good, but THEY were always cruel. WHO could be so cruel, to such a good little dog.” Over and over, on and on.
(The “cruel song” even worked on my 18-month-old niece, once, when she was ready to be OUT of her car seat, but we had miles to go…………)
Everyone I know hates to cut nails. I’m betting the dogs know we hate it, and that is a big part of their objection to doing it…… Especially if we are afraid we will hurt them. Getting to a point where everyone may think it is tiresome, but no one is freaking out, is Very Good.
Stephanie Hamar says
My dog used to be somewhat accepting of the nail-clipping process, until an unfortunate visit to the vet. They clipped his nails during an emergency visit as a “complimentary service”, but we could hear the poor guy howling back there in a more desperate way than I had ever heard before or since. We were both a bit traumatized. After that experience nearly a year ago, we have had to do some extremely patient training to get him to allow clipping. The sound is definitely a trigger, and I’m interested to see if the rotary tool works better. Have you found it at all difficult with the grinder, due to the length of handling time per nail being a bit more extended than with clippers?
Trisha says
Love the panty hose idea to keep hair away from the grinder. Brilliant! And I would base the age of the first nail trim based on the behavior of the dog. The ‘fear period’ is variable and differs dog to dog. But most importantly, just be sure to make it absolutely fun. Break it up into steps–the paw hold, the expose the nail under the fur part, the clippers touching the nail part, and finally clip the tiniest piece imaginable from the nail. Done. Wait til next session to do any more. Good luck!
Margaret McLaughlin says
I used to be a groomer–till I got tired of seasonal starvation & returned to health care. My best advice is to hold the paw as lightly as you can; the tighter your grip, the more they fight it. If you don’t have a grooming table, tie the leash to a door handle so the dog can’t just leave, but otherwise do not restrain the dog. It also helps to turn up the dog’s paw–as if you were cleaning a horse’s hoof–rather than extending it forwards or pulling it out to the side.
A great tip I learned from the guide dog school I puppy-raise for is to use peanut butter if you don’t have an assistant to dispense treats. A glop on the refrigerator door (an easy-to-clean surface) or the grooming arm can make it very easy to classically condition the whole process. You could then take it to the next level & put it on cue.
Although i have never tried it myself, teaching the dog to file her own nails on a giant emery board made with sandpaper would be easy to teach a clicker-savvy dog, & bypasses the whole struggle. After all, the goal is short blunt nails, not forcing your will on the dog.
Tricia says
Two strategies…the dogs that don’t love it, but are okay with it: I made an agreement with them that nails only get done when on the grooming table (a crate, in my case). They seem to be comfortable with that contract. The grooming table always guarantees lots of treats too. They now race to be the first to jump up for their beauty treatments.
The newest dog, a small fearful Chi, hated the sight of the clippers, and would not allow the trimming at first view of them. We put a calming cap on her, and now she just cooperates calmly and patiently for nail trims. Never thought the visual would be that powerful.
Maureen says
I assume that breeders are doing nails on their litters – but maybe not? Starting from week 1 and every week thereafter, it’s conditioning at its finest. Handling paws and nails is what they grow up with and consider normal because it’s started as a neonate. Tipping the nail – usually with a pair of human nail clippers for the first few weeks – becomes part of the routine, like daily handling and putting them on atypical flooring and surfaces (crackling tarp, etc.) and other things being done to raise well-adjusted dogs from whelping to going to their new family after weaning. It’s easy and creates lifelong good habits.
Jenny H says
I use clippers since I feel that they are quicker — one clip and one nail done!
Which means that I can clip their nails like painting the Sydney Harbour Bridge. One nail a day — forever!!
But I have also worked out what the reason for a lot of resistence to nail clipping is — BLUNT clippers.
Gayla says
I wonder if there is a readily available substance of similar density to their nails? If there was, maybe it would simulate the sound, and we could use the nail clippers as a clicker.
Patti Levay says
as a groomer, I prefer the grinder (Dremel) and only use the nail clippers when the nail is either so very long or curled under into a circle or into the pad. I also have my dryers running as I use the dremmel, the air flow and the sound from the dryer is soothing to the dogs that I’m working on and most of my customers don’t mind their nails being done! however, for those difficult furbabies that really hate their nails being trimmed, I have their owner sit in a rocking chair with their furbaby being held on their lap facing me as I do their nails with the dremmel tool. it is much more relaxing for the furbaby! Make sure to use a FINE GRIT sanding drum band when you use a grinding tool whether its dremel, sears, oster, etc… that is important! a too coarse drum can injure the nail easily ripping it apart so again use a FINE GRIT sanding drum band. and after the nail trimming, I do reward with plenty of “good furbaby” and treats!
Chris from Boise says
Timely post! One of my goals this year was “one nail a day”, which has been a good way to tackle the chore. We’re now transitioning from clipping nails to grinding, to see if anxious Habi tolerates it better. In the past, husband Mike restrained Habi in his lap, and despite plying her with Spectacular Treat after Spectacular Treat throughout the whole process, she quaked the whole time. (As Vicki from Michigan commented, I suspect my discomfort carried over to Habi).
When we moved to a grinder, I decided to try a different approach. She has a great “Just Relax” (aka play dead, on her side), so I started there and moved V…E…R…Y S….L….O….W…L….Y, counter-conditioning at every step. After we reached the “turned-off grinder touches a nail” step, I had a brainstorm. Both dogs line up to get their teeth brushed with an electric toothbrush, so I repeated the steps she had just learned, but with the turned-off toothbrush. We then repeated with the toothbrush turned on; as she was comfortable with the tool, this step went pretty quickly, and I soon was able to brush (!) her toenails. Transitioning to the turned-on grinder went well, and we’re now able to touch the grinder to the nail without her jerking her paw away. We’re a month in, so it’s not quick going, but the other day I was grinding Obi’s nails while Habi was in her crate. She put up a fuss, and when I let her out she came over and lay down on her side, waiting for her turn!
Cheerful Obi learned the grinder game within a week (he constantly amazes us with what a border collie with no emotional baggage can do). He lies blissfully on his back between my legs; I learned this upside-down settle from a Kikopup video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7cq5X8aV95E and it works great for him. (Habi felt too restrained when I tried it with her; her Just Relax position, where she has the option of just getting up and walking away if it becomes just too much, works better for her).
This has been a good project while Habi is laid up after knee surgery; she only has two more weeks of strict confinement; meanwhile I’ve been taking advantage of her bored state of mind to tackle various quiet projects like this.
Stephanie: as the grinder can build up heat on the nail, I only grind for a second on one nail. If I’m doing more than one nail (Obi is happy to have me do all four paws in one session), I’ll do one second on each nail on one paw, then do another pass, then another pass. For Habi, I’ll do a micro-second, then treats fall from the sky, then another micro-second, etc.
Barbara says
My three German Shepherd Dogs have thick, black nails. A clipper pinches the nerves so I use the Dremel. They were all trained in many short sessions with lots of cookies. I have my dogs lie on their sides on the couch while I sit on a small stool. That is more comfortable for me and easier to see the end of the nail and know how close I am getting. Since the dogs are lying down their legs are supported and I don’t have to hold the foot up. I do occasionally draw blood but none of the dogs has whimpered or cried out. Thursday is pedicure day. I alternate the direction their heads are facing so the nails will be ground evenly and I can reach one front dew claw every other week. None of the dogs loves their pedi but they tolerate it. Mindy, the eight year old, acts like a princess on the couch and can hardly wait to jump up there as soon as I start setting up the equipment. She is more sensitive with her back nails, not at all with the fronts so I do the back nails first. Miley, the five year old, is also eager to get on the couch. She stares straight ahead like she is pretending this isn’t happening. Miley is more sensitive about having the fronts done so I do those first. Casey will be one year old tomorrow. He also thinks it is a treat to jump on the couch but he doesn’t like to lie on his side. He likes to watch and I have to remind him “No nose!” He has a long coat with a bushy tail. I wrap a towel around his tail so it won’t get caught in the Dremel. Did that once. Ouch!
All the dogs will pull their feet away at times. I let go and take a break for a little massage. I no longer give cookies because they became a distraction. I can do three dogs in less than half an hour and no one is traumatized.
IMHO it is much preferable to train the dog to let you handle her feet and trim her nails at home than to turn her over to a groomer or the vet.
Antonia says
I discovered that my dogs really don’t like the grip on their paw when I am clipping. So, I now do very little holding around their leg. I will apply gentle pressure to one side of the paw to keep it in place but no good grip. They always lie down for trims. When I do the back feet, I will sit cross-legged and have their feet rest in my lap. This gives me a good angle to clip without having to hold on very hard. I ALWAYS clip when they are sleepy. Makes for a much calmer victim!
Crandellpop says
I’ve finally gotten pretty good at this. I do weekly trims of tiny amounts using human clippers on two dogs (one big, one little) and two cats. My biggest fear now is a fight in my lap (no video yet!) over who will be next! Our newest, Jane, a 10 pound street dog, hated to have her paws touched and mouthed me at first. Using the slow process Trisha suggested, I treated with lots of squeeze cheese (yes, the nasty orange stuff) after each clip. That’s 20 clips and 20 treats for every session. Now Jane treats the clip sound like a clicker and turns to me for her treat. Our third dog has never allowed me to trim her nails even as a pup and goes to the groomer. Now that she is old she has terrible arthritis – especially in her feet. Did her feet always hurt, I wonder?
Frances says
I played the tap tap game with mine as puppies – touch a nail, treat; build up to a tap with the clippers, treat; then a snip in front of the nail, treat; etc. I don’t think they have ever enjoyed having nails trimmed, but they both tolerated it well until Sophy pulled a dew claw and it grew back in at an awkward angle – it needs clipping, but is clearly uncomfortable for her no matter which style of clippers I try. So that particular paw gets a jackpot, every time. She doesn’t like me doing it even so, but doesn’t actively fight me as long as I show that I am being extremely careful. For both of mine front paws are more of an issue than back – I’m not sure whether that’s because the nails are stronger and take more cutting, or whether their front paws are just more sensitive. Poppy (Toy Poodle) hates having her paws clipped, so much so that I use small scissors to trim the hair there rather than the clipper. I suspect it is the vibration, and that there might be a similar problem using a grinder?
Erin James says
One of my terriers was very easy to clicker train to self file her nails on a sandpaper board. She hated the Dremel, so I had to do something. My other terrier was a singleton pup and we’re still working on his intolerance to touch. He hates his paws being touched. I take him to a groomer and they use a muzzle. I keep counterconditioning him to paw touches and hope to be able to work up to using the Dremel on him, but I’m also working on getting him to use the self-filing sandpaper board. We walk twice a day on paved surfaces so that helps a bit to keep the nails short.
Susanne Sulutvedt says
Thank you for the info.
Specially thank you for the pictures of the happening lifeconfirming beautefull lambs
Ellen says
Lots of great ideas in the comments! I can add that having a grinder with a slow rpm speed setting makes it so much easier not to quick with the grinder. Also, making toenails an every few days job, a must if keeping nails “dog show ready” short, assuming the experience is always a good one, makes it much easier. Amongst other things, it eliminates having to remove a lot of nail. I also grind around the edges of the cut end of the nail, not flat on its ends. This minimizes the chance of causing pain. Puppies should be started having their nails trimmed in the first couple of weeks to spare their mom’s breasts from being scratched to shreds. Started that early, it can be done with a pair of baby nail scissors which make it easy to see what you are doing and avoid the quick. Last but most important, when we were dealing with our male Rottie during his coming of age (we don’t neuter, sorry) transition, I would cut a pound of bacon into tiny pieces and sit on the floor by his head keeping a continuous flow of bacon into his mouth while my husband did his nails with him laying on his side. This kept him occupied without a wrastling match. I crooned “dead dog, dead dog” to him the whole time. Eventually, he associated “dead dog” with the pleasure of bacon treats and would throw himself on the floor in a submissive position when he heard it, which was a really great help in managing him. He was from German working dog lines (police, military) and was a tough boy, so having taught him to be submissive on command and like it was a real help.
Elizabeth says
Mine were very concerned with the noise, so I started conditioning the dogs to the sound of the grinder by playing it for a week at each meal. The grinder would go on, then food came out and they ate. I gradually moved the grinder closer to them while they were eating. When the no longer flinched at the sound of the grinder turning on, I then moved on to working with them individually with the grinder as outlined in your post. I also trained scratching a dog nail file — which is a board covered with stick-on anti-slip stair tread tape. This works great for the front paws for some of my dogs. I’ve not been successful in training a kick of the back paws, so must clip or use the grinder on those.
Claire Aston says
I would really struggle without my grinder. When I started doing Rollo’s nails they were much too long so very easy to trim without quicking him, and he wasn’t bothered by the clippers, though he was never keen on the loudest clicks they made. But as they got shorter but the quicks didn’t recede enough, I quicked him a couple of times, which made us both wary and he became very uncomfortable as soon as the clippers came out.
It didn’t help at all that I was holding my breath because it’s hard to see the quicks on his nails and there’s that awful moment as you squeeze where you just pray you aren’t going to catch the quick! So we both ended up in a right old state. Looking back it’s true that the sound of the click became an aversive. Even on his dew claws where I could see the quick and it was miles away, he still flinched at the cut. I think it was the sound plus the pressure of the clippers.
I got a dremel and worked him up to it really, really slowly using the bucket game. He is much happier with me using the dremel, and I’m much more relaxed because I can shape his nails so that they’re weakened and then walking on hard surfaces wears them down naturally (as per Dr. Leslie Woodcock’s method) and I don’t worry about taking off a chunk of quick.
I’m a bit obsessed about his nails; sighthounds seem to have longer nails generally but I try to keep them at a length that’s comfortable. And I try to do either front or back paws a couple of times a week as they grow really quickly and he is more relaxed with regular shorter sessions.
It’s interesting what you say about the direction of growth – I’ve had that where the dremel bounces off the nail but I presumed it was the way I was doing it. I’ll make sure I pay more attention to that in future, thanks!
Keli says
I’ve always been a “good” dog trainer/owner and made sure to make nail time mean treat time, but when you are single, sometimes in the beginning it can be a little difficult. But what I found worked great on my first dog that hated nail trimming was to smear peanut butter all over the front of the oven. She could lick it up while I trimmed. The oven worked great because I could make it mouth level for her and it was a breeze to clean up afterwards.
Meghan says
Oh, those lambs! That’s one of the most wonderful things I’ve ever seen!
Thanks for addressing this topic again! I think it’s so important for people to know that husbandry tasks don’t have to be a horrible ordeal for anyone. When I got my dog, a GSD, she was about a year old and she hated having her paws touched. I left the issue alone for about a month or two–I wanted her to feel that I was very trustworthy and quite cool before I started changing her mind about paw handling. Then I systematically counter conditioned paw handling step by step, classically conditioned the appearance of clippers, classically conditioned the clipping sound (you can use spaghetti for this!), then introduced clippers to the paw handling. It took about a month and might have been unnecessarily thorough, but it was totally worth it–Nala is a cheerful participant in her “manicures,” and when I get the clippers, she follows me around until I invite her to hop up on the couch. I do her nails once a week to keep the good associations fresh (as per Emily Larlham’s suggestion in the kikopup video linked above).
At some point a few months ago, though, she started flinching after each clip. Given our history of happy trims, I decided to trust her, and asked the internet if my clippers could be dull and crushing her nails. The answer was a resounding YES! So now, I sharpen them before each trimming by clipping a folded up sheet of aluminum foil, and shape the edges with a glass file (the dog fashion one mentioned above) to save wear and tear. Nala no longer flinches with each clip, and she lolls back on the couch and drifts off a bit when I use the file! So I’m offering that as another possible reason for filing to be preferable to clipping–no crushing sensation from dull clippers. Hopefully it helps someone!
Rebecca M says
I am a dog trainer first and a groomer second… I have very different opinions from most other groomers because of my background in obedience & agility. It’s not my job to care what your dog likes or how it likes to be touched, it’s my job to get it done. Unless your dog is under 3mo or old or has arthritis I will wrestle, muzzle, tie up, sit on or do whatever I have to do to get it done. Do it and get it over with. I would never ever ever ever give a dog treats for a nail trim, and you shouldn’t either, they’re probably not even being that good…I prefer to use my words & actions. I’m not here to hurt them, but I’m not here to take crap from them either. I cut with clippers 1st then dremel. Even if the dogs gets a nail trim once a month, 9 out of 10 times they are too long to just dremel. Also No means No, so if your dog doesn’t listen, you might need to go back to square one. I’ve been going to a weekly class with a dog for the last 16 years,,, have you?
Claire Aston says
Oh, by the way – about the hair trimming thing that Vicki in Michigan mentioned – don’t forget that blunt scissor blades can pull the hair. I just trimmed Rollo’s hair on his paws (after dremeling – the changing the direction of the rotation if it bounces worked a treat, thanks! I was more or less upside down but hey…) and he was much more comfortable if I used the sharper tips of the scissors rather than using the main part of the blades. If that makes sense! I’d use my special hairdressing scissors only they are very pointy and I’d worry about stabbing him if he jerked his foot.
My mum used to trim my fringe for me (bangs?) and she has old hairdressing scissors that need sharpening, and every snip pulls the hair. Just something to bear in mind :-).
Back paws can also be ticklish at the best of times! I use a few Raccoon TTouches on the pads before I start; it does help.
Trisha says
Thanks to Claire and to Jenny for the reminder that blunt blades can pull hair, and blunt clippers make it more aversive to have one’s nails clipped. A great reminder for us all. I also love the suggestion to use cat nail clippers on small dogs.
I’m loving the comments about how each of us has found ways to make this process less aversive. I’m especially impressed with the whole “teach your dog to scratch her own nails on sandpaper” thing. Thanks Erin for the reminder. I should have added that into the article. I came back from Natural Encounters motivated to do just that, but got swept away in the rest of life. Someday… it is such a brilliant idea, and doesn’t seem that it would be that hard to train once you’ve built the board.
I do have some questions for Rebecca M: First, thanks for writing in. Even though we have very different perspectives, I’m glad you joined the conversation. I do have some questions for you. You say “It’s not my job to care what your dog likes or how it likes to be touched…”. I’m curious why you think it isn’t. I take Tootsie to a groomer on occasion, and she cares deeply what Tootsie likes and doesn’t like. I wouldn’t go to her if she didn’t. Also, you say “I’m not here to hurt them…” but then tell us you will “wrestle, muzzle, tie up, sit on or do whatever…” you feel you have to do to force the dog into submission. But being “hurt” can happen a number of ways, and it doesn’t just involve physical pain. Psychological pain, trauma and suffering can have serious and long-lasting effects on the animals who experience them. And one last comment: One way of looking at dog training is to focus on “Yes means Yes,” by training what you DO want, rather than focusing on what you don’t. Using food as a reinforcement works wonderfully in so many situations; I hope you stay open to using new methods that include positive reinforcement.
Jana says
Great article. I think it is also important to consider that even with great conditioning, each dog is an individual with their own unique preferences and experiences that form those associations. Most of my dogs preferred the grinder over clipper. But my current male much prefers the clipper over the grinder. I think due to 1) I’ve almost never quicked him just because of how his nails grow (although after the 1st time quicking him, he will now react to the ‘click’ just not very much). And 2) he hates to hold still, so the clipper is much faster than the grinder.
I did a friends old lab’s nails for her. She was brought to the groomers all the time, but when she got to 14yrs and could barely walk, the fact that for years the groomers just never got those long clicking on the floor nails short enough became a much bigger issue. I agreed to grind them down, if she’d hold her comfortably on her lap on the floor and pet and give treats.
She argued with me that she had to be standing up like at the groomers. Well, I convinced her I was right, and sat on the floor, took our time and we got all nails down to a nice short non-clicking length for the 1st time in years and years with absolutely no fuss. I just rotated and did one paw at a time taking them down some, then went back to the 1st paw again and took it down more in rotation, watching her and judging her level of comfort the entire time.
My pet peeve is too long of nails – it’s got to hurt so much to walk.
Beth says
I use a Dremel. I want to add that depending on the dog, the steps can take much longer. Jack is claustrophobic and panics with restraint. It took me about 6 months, working in short sessions 2-3 times a week, to condition him to let me do his front nails and it’s still not easy. He tries so hard it fills me with pride even though he’s pretty awful. He will jerk his paw away, then whine-grumble, shuffle his feet, and lift his paw to offer it to me again. You can almost hear him say “Drat, I blew it! Let’s try again.” Thankfully he wears them down and they rarely need to be done.
Rebecca M says
I’ll do my best to answer. I’ve been handeling dogs since I was 8 I have worked in several Animal Hospitals over the years doing vet tech & kennel stuff as well as grooming shops & learned how to properly restrain animals.I ‘ve pretty much seen it all inside & outside.
How does a dog at the vet hold still for x-rays or blood drawing without sedation if they don’t like it? By someone (s) restraining it. Sometimes dogs don’t get choices. I also groomed at one of the hospitals where all the grooming shops in the area sent me all the bad dogs they kicked out. It’s not about forcing anything or getting them to submit, it’s just about doing it. I’ve had to help so many dogs get over being handled improperly by groomers & owners who let them do what they want. How, just by doing it and not hesitating.
How many of you let your kids stay up all night eating candy and watching R rated movies? Then why would you let a dog say no don’t touch my feet or cut my nails weather i’ts yours or someone elses? I’ts just something that needs to be done. . I also think dogs “suffer” more “hurt” from owners letting their dogs dictate what they like or don’t like. I currently am a private groomer at home & wouldn’t work in another shop for any amount of money.
Cara says
I’m going to read your article again, and all the comments, for tips. But I already do much of what you suggest, in using a grinder (wish I had a REVERSIBLE one, as maneuvering their paws so that I can grind in the right direction can be tricky!).
I think my biggest roadblocks are 1) the time it takes to grind the hard nails of our Dobie and 2) the fact that I could get it done faster with a clipper, but it’s MY fear (of nipping them) that gets in the way of that.
Thanks
Nanci Tayler says
I have used a grinder successfully on 3 dogs. One very important thing to remember: heat can build up quickly, and become uncomfortable, when the rotating “drum” is held against the dogs nail. I have learned to count, “One, two, three”. I never hold the grinding head on a nail longer than that three-count. You can always return to finish the nail after you have worked on the other nails. As a nice finishing touch, slow the speed of the grinder and “finish” the sharp edges you have created on the nails.
Beth says
I just read Rebecca M’s answer. To be blunt: This is why I will never use a groomer. There are many wonderful groomers out there. But it is not up to someone else to decide if my dogs should be manhandled. My dogs know I will never force them to tolerate a situation they hate unless it’s a medical emergency. I will not have their trust in humanity destroyed over a grooming session. Honestly situations like this can turn a dog into a biter. Goodness. Jack has panic attacks if he’s held down (pounding heart, rolling eyes). The thought of someone doing this to my boy…..
Corinne says
I switched all my dogs to a grinder. Despite a concerted attempt at CC&D to the clippers I only ever got to the point of tolerating but not being happy with one of my dogs in particular. He doesn’t mind having paws handled, he isn’t noise sensitive, and I now believe that clipping caused him discomfort even when nowhere near the quick. He was super easy to desensitise to the grinder, and these days the biggest problem I have is him throwing paws at me and trying to barge in on the other dog’s turns.
em says
@Patti Levay,
I am rolling with laughter, picturing myself holding Otis the great dane on my lap for nail clipping 🙂
Fortunately, my dogs are good about their nails- I catch them lying down and clipclipclip easy-peasy, done in less than two minutes. We were very lucky with Otis- he has been very cooperative from the start. His nails are so large and hard, though, I have a slightly difficult time finding clippers heavy-duty enough to cut them easily. Sharpness is an absolute must. I also find it is very important to orient the clipping blades so that they slice parallel to the quick, cutting from the top and bottom not side-to-side, which squeezes and pinches the nail.
We did try a grinder designed for pet nails on him and found it was terribly underpowered for Otis- it got hot and was glacially slow on his huge nails. He disliked the noise and vibration, too. I have always been a little nervous about a high-powered grinder, so we went with the clippers and have had not trouble since. Even though many of his nails and all of Sandy’s are solid black, I find that if I cut with their paws facing upward towards me, I can tell where their quicks are likely to be much more easily.
I’m afraid I don’t have much to offer in the way of tips, except that I’ve always found that the calmer, quieter, more patient and quick I am, the easier it is for them. Also, if a dog pulls a foot away, I let them, give them a moment, then calmly take it again even if I don’t cut any more nails- I don’t pull back against them, and I hold their paws as lightly as possible when I do retake them, but I don’t just give up and go away. I also count down, out of habit and it may do absolutely nothing, but I say gently, four more, three more, etc until a bright All Done! at the end.
Sandy was fearful when she first came to us, and nail trimming is still far from her favorite thing, but she’s miles and miles better. I don’t give her treats until the end, but we worked on desensitization pretty consistently- I frequently touch her feet in affection during moments of relaxation (she loves attention and physical touch in general) and worked up from doing a couple of nails per session to the whole set as she grew increasingly calm and comfortable.
Pat Roth says
I have 2 Border Collies and I have been Dremeling their nails since last Summer. My groomer moved & both of my girls Kelty 11 years & Ciera now 4 both transitioned from the groomer to me doing them. They get up on our pause table on which I placed a soft rug and lay down with their front paws over the edge. This works well for me because of my bad knees. I sit next to them, give them a few treats and can quickly do their front feet. I usually trim their fur on their paws first to help prevent catching any hair while Dremeling. Not as easy to do the back feet but we usually do them a day or two later.
Beth says
Rebecca, quite to the contrary, Jack’s chart at the vet has “minimal restraint” and “prefers to be on the floor” all over it. They were 100% unsuccessful in getting a blood draw at all the one time they tried to restrain him; he thrashed and screamed so much that they couldn’t get a vein. The vet asks her techs to stand at his head and hold him lightly and talk to him. The last time he needed blood work, it took 20 minutes (Corgis wonky legs can make blood draws tough; the vein kept rolling away) and we succeeded with lots of peanut butter and soothing voices, and almost no restraint at all. I lightly held his collar and the tech slung one arm loosely under his belly to support his weight with one leg lifted. If they had tried to firmly hold his body they would not have gotten the draw.
Similarly when he had to go to the doggie ER for a scratched cornea, they let him be on the floor and didn’t restrain him at all. Again, they were lightly at his head talking to him and asking him to cooperate, which worked.
I would not work with a vet who wrestled my dog into submission any more than I would go to a gynecologist who strapped me down and told me it was for my own good. Ugh. People get PTSD from that sort of treatment. I wonder what happens to the dogs?
Beth says
Just wanted to add that my Maddie is just the opposite and calms down with modest restraint. She likes being held though.
Elaine says
I use a grinder on my dogs and it goes very easy regardless of what direction I go or grit I use. I can see from using the clippers in the past that even if I am not getting quickies then it looks like it is putting a weird pressure on the nail if there is any thickness to it. and I’m sure that’s painful. If i use the clippers at all its to just snip off the tiny bit at the end that’s very narrow.
Carole says
I use clippers. I have a small Tupperware container just small enough for their tongue to fit fastened to the table. I put some cheese whiz in the container and put my pup on the table. My pup licks the cheese while I clip their nails. they have to work hard to get the cheese because the container opening is small. Now that my dogs are older as soon as they see me with the clippers they jump on the table waiting for their turn. Last week two of them were on the table and I had a hard time trying to get one of them off the table so I could do the other dogs nails.
Kat says
One definite advantage of suburban life is that my dogs walk a lot on paved surfaces which tends to keep their nails filed down naturally. In the nine years Ranger has lived with us I think we’ve had his nails clipped five times. We have a groomer do it but he’s so good and it’s so easy that I can only remember twice when they actually charged us. I suspect that Ranger’s habit of putting his paw on residents when he’s visiting which almost always results in them holding his paw has pretty well ended any concerns about having his feet handled. https://www.flickr.com/photos/33350160@N02/24900083269/in/photolist-DWkrfv not the best photo but you get the idea.
Nic1 says
Oh nice blog!
Confession time – I have never clipped my dogs’ nails! Am I a bad owner??
I think I am a bit lazy to be honest as a pre requisite for me when adopting a dog is minimal maintenance in the grooming department. A dog that spends more time at the groomers than myself (twice a year for me) means we spend less time out hiking and getting muddy. However, I am prepared to eat my words when I finally succumb to adopting a lap dog and parading around like a diva.
We walk at least 2 to 3 hours per day and probably most of that is on our country roads and paths. Her nails are pretty well filed as a result and no problems.
Beth – dogs have a limbic system and therefore have all the equipment to suffer from PTSD too right?
Nic1 says
Restraining and hugging – possibly the same thing from some dogs’ perspective? I guess it depends how long and hard the hug is and whether the hug or restraint is from a person that the dog has a relationship built on trust, safety and behavioural understanding?
According to this piece of research, the data says don’t hug the dog:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/canine-corner/201604/the-data-says-dont-hug-the-dog
‘this data clearly shows that while a few dogs may like being hugged, more than four out of five dogs find this human expression of affection to be unpleasant and/or anxiety arousing.’
MinnesotaMary says
Great post! I cut the quick on my black dog’s nails once and she’s never forgotten it. I do use the grinder (I have both battery and plug-in ones. The battery ones just don’t have the power to get the job done). I started by putting the grinder down where they could see it and get used to it. Then I turned it on and off in front of them to condition them to the noise and slowly moved it closer to their paws. All this over the course of a few weeks before I was actually trimming. I make sure to do it right before bed when they are tired from the day and sleepy.
A friend developed another method. She uses duct tape to adhere sandpaper to a board. Click and treat whenever the dog paws at the board raking their own claws against the sandpaper. One thing to note is that you need to hold the board at an angle. If you lay it flat on the floor you get nails that are sharp and pointed at the tip. Not good if you have wood floors!
LisaW says
@Nic1, to satisfy my need for a hug, I put it on cue. I kneel down and say, “Give me a hug,” and Phoebe will put her head on my shoulder. If I need more than one, I rinse and repeat. I’m not sure she loves it but she loves the treat that comes after.
As for nails, Olive is the first dog I’ve ever had that hates having her nails clipped (what a surprise 🙂
We had found someone who used to be a groomer and would come to the house and spend as long as it took to clip Olive’s nails without restraint. She was amazing and loved Olive, and we had to insist on paying her. She is no longer in the area, and we are looking for a groomer that will be as patient and kind. No luck yet.
Because of our other challenges with Olive, nail clipping is one hurdle we decided to sub-out.
Ellen says
I’m very sympathetic with Rebecca’s position because to me, the result of the positive reinforcement school has been a world of bad mannered dogs I would never be able to live with. My dog experience also goes back to the fifties and sixties, predating Karen Pryor. Perhaps I also have a natural affinity for the “do it or die because I said so” approach. However, I want to share my observation from working with horses. You cannot impose your wishes with brute strength on a horse. In the horse world, use of food is much more widely frowned on than in the dog world because doing it badly has disastrous results for the same reason you can’t win thru brute force. So the most popular approach is frequently thru intimidation, which looks like it works pretty well on the surface but has some big disadvantages too. Then there are the horses that know they are god, have no use for people and zero inhibitions about treating puny little you the same way they would another horse. We ended up owning one of those. I will make a very long story very short. We had to either convince him to be obedient or send him to tour Europe in a can. The first step had to be to get him interested in working with us. We did this the same way a momma horse does this with her newborn, with food. Once he had a reason to be interested, the rest of the training went the way training a dog would go. He is now a happy, useful horse. And he adores us. And no, he doesn’t mug us for treats. A good friend, who used adversarial training techniques, was killed by her horse (kicked in the head). I’ve had horses I startled start to kick and pull it when they realized it was me. They know, they care. So do dogs.
Last comment, I think it is unreasonable and unrealistic to expect an animal to tolerate being hurt or frightened beyond just a little.
Judi says
For anyone looking for ideas on how to train dogs to file their own nails, this article by Shirley Chong is a good one. http://shirleychong.com/keepers/nailfile.html She owns Tervuren, for size reference on the size of the board.
One way to help desensitize to the sound of the clippers is to hold small sticks, like wooden matchsticks, by or between the toes. Cutting the stick with clippers makes a noise similar to clipping the nails. Most of us tend to close both hands to some extent when we close one, so we do have a tendency to squeeze with the hand holding the foot when we squeeze the clippers closed. Cutting the stick, paired with cookies, can give us more reps without risk of quicking a nail.
One thing I find important is to have a contrasting background when I’m clipping nails. I try to have my dark-nailed dog on a lighter background when I clip her nails so I can better see where I’m cutting, with a slight hope of seeing where the quick is. My white-nailed boy doesn’t need as much contrast, but a little is still helpful.
Beth says
Nic1, interesting. And I do believe they can experience PTSD, based on some of what we see with animals who have experienced trauma. Keep in mind of course that dogs have a wide degree of variation in how they perceive being hugged/restrained. Madison loves it and seeks it out. She will actually snuggle herself under you if she can. Most dogs dislike it but will tolerate it. Some hate it. Some, like Jack, panic (I have worked for years to desensitize him and he’s improved a lot, but still not great). The last group is the one that is likely to be traumatized, and if the situation is bad enough (repeated, or goes on too long and they cannot escape) they may be traumatized beyond repair.
After all, even people who love hugs tend to thrash and resist restraint, or find it frightening. I find it frustrating that as we are moving more and more towards recognizing in HUMAN medicine that people who are very anxious or frightened should be offered a sedative to relax them, we still have vets and groomers who believe that dogs should just suck it up and “behave themselves.”
Nic1 says
@LisaW I have a similar routine but call it ‘cuddles’.
I have found that Lily seems fairly tolerant if I approach her sideways and cuddle gently while scratching her rear. She sometimes slowly leans in and indulges my weird behaviour. 🙂 I remember you posting a cute picture of Olive as a puppy on another blog post here when she was a puppy and she was upright in a begging position (seriously cute). If Lily thinks I am going to cuddle her face on she usually adopts a similar position and will stick her front legs up and out.
LisaW says
@Nic1, If I had a bucket list, which I don’t for a variety of reasons, but if I did, one of the things on my list would be for Olive and me to meet you and Lily. I’m not sure she could walk the 2-3 hours with you all, but she sure would want to give it her best.
@Ellen, you had me thinking one thing with the opening of your comment and then turned it around by the end. I’m not sure why you wouldn’t extend the same reasoning you have for horses to dogs and all other sentient beings. Curious.
Nic1 says
@Ellen. In my experience it’s the untrained dogs that tend to have the bad manners. ?
I wonder if sone misunderstanding has developed about people using positive reinforcement? If you use R+ to educate your dog this doesn’t necessarily mean that you are permissive and lack guidance and control of your pet.
It would be perfectly possible to have a dog who is bad mannered if you are positively reinforcing the wrong behaviour or the bad manners. People do this mostly inadvertently, when we sometimes forget that our dogs are learning stuff all the time and we’re too busy doing other stuff or distracted. Because we are human after all ?
@LisaW Ditto. Lily and I would love to meet you and Olive. I think we’re probably human and canine kindred spirits! ? We do break the walking up into
2 or 3 sessions so we’ll go easy on you! ?
Trisha says
To LisaW and others: Ah, I too love the idea of a group walk somewhere! I also wish I could retire from all the rest of my work responsibilities and ‘talk’ on this forum more often. Oh, that pesky need to sell my books and generate income to pay for dog food.
So, thank you Nic1 for your answer to Ellen about the use of positive reinforcement and food treats not being a synonym for rude, ill-mannered dogs. It is absolutely true that there are dogs who ‘behave badly,’ but that’s true with any method that one uses. It’s also true that force-based methods can cause problems far more serious than dogs who jump up when they are not welcome too. It’s interesting to me that so many associate positive reinforcement with “spoiling,” when the science makes it abundantly clear that it’s the most effective way to influence behavior. If one wants control, it is a far more effective way to get it than force. But then, there’s that hierarchical aspect of social relationships in all of us that is hard to counter…
em says
@Ellen I have often reflected that one of the greatest surprise advantages to owning a dog bigger than myself is that it removed any temptation to rely on force or physical restraint in my training and interaction with him.
Before Otis, I would never have considered myself a ‘brute force’ trainer at all, quite the opposite, but owning him showed me exactly how many subtle ways I was relying on physical strength (on leash, especially) to manage my previous dogs, and having to surrender that crutch while simultaneously shouldering the added burden of a dog whose power and intimidation potential meant that he absolutely MUST NOT misbehave in public taught me more than anything I could have dreamt up about what forging a working partnership with my canine companion really means.
I firmly believe that I am both a kinder AND a more effective trainer because of it. I would also note that during his formative training period, because of his health issues, Otis was not just too strong to train with force, but distinctly disinterested in food rewards too. Fortunately, he was motivated by social pressure and an agreeable dog in general. I would also underscore that this does not mean that I don’t interact with him in a physical way- just that we have built up our bond of trust to such a degree that while I don’t for a moment kid myself that my grip on his leash is anything but a guideline to him ( and window-dressing for the public’s benefit), neither would I hesitate for a moment to reach into his mouth or push him out of the way in an emergency.
I just wanted to mention it because many people seem to forget that there is a very great distance between “no guidance, no consistency, just shovel out the treats willy-nilly, whether the dog’s behavior is truly desirable or not” and “just slap on a muzzle and sit on him if he struggles”. Neither extreme is likely to yield very good results, (though the first one probably isn’t causing actual permanent trauma) .
Successful training is, for me, much less about die-hard adherence to any one methodology and much more about understanding the needs and motivations of the dog in front of me, considering ALL my options and then making the most compassionate choice I can to achieve the behaviors I need. That’s why I love this blog so much! I love hearing about all the different experiences people have with their dogs, considering the rich variety of approaches, and relishing the chance to stay abreast of the latest scientific thinking on social behaviors and cognition.
Kat says
@Ellen, all the dogs in my therapy dog group are trained using positive reinforcement–we’re all a bunch of “cookie pushers.” The first comment we usually hear visiting anywhere is what beautiful manners our dogs have. Of course all of us have clear expectations of what good manners look like and a solid understanding of how to train. I suspect that people with ill-mannered dogs lack those two fundamentals regardless of what method they use training.
I expect my dogs to comply with my wishes but in turn I also listen to what they’re telling me. Ranger has a long luxurious rough coat which often means tangles, mats, and burrs. As I’m brushing I run into one of these and try to work it out. Sometimes I pull too hard and it hurts him. He lets me know when that happens. It doesn’t mean I stop trying to get it out but it tells me that a different technique should be employed. Because he knows I listen he doesn’t have to fight me and I don’t have to force him to comply; we communicate and adjust to each other. I’ve always thought that was the essence of training–communication. My job as a trainer is to communicate to the dog (or child, or kid, or cat, or horse, or whatever) what the rules are that allow them to safely and effectively navigate their world to maximize satisfaction.
NS says
FYI – Whole Dog Journal April 2016 issue article “Nailing It”. From Susan Garrett’s website: Cutting Your Dog’s nails: How important is it really? Aug 19, 2013 Contains 14 minute video by Dr. Leslie Woodcock.
Kelly Schlesinger says
My 2-year-old Jet is the happiest of all my dogs to get his nails done and he is the one with whom I have spent the most time practicing it. (Duh!) My trick with him was to go into a boring place with the clippers and a bowl of treats. He got treats for letting me touch his feet, tap them with the clippers and tip the nails. If he left, no problem, there was nothing for him to do and, anyway I had the treats! He came back and had a good time. My other dogs were easier-going than Jet and put up with things they didn’t really like if they got cookies. Jet has never been that accommodating and I had to find a new way. For him it paid to be a pain! He has taught me a lot.
Beth says
I would love to have Ellen go hiking with me and Jack off-leash to see what a well-mannered dog trained through mostly treat-training can do. He auto-stops if I drop the leash. Stops at every fork in the trail to see which way we are going. Will “wait” on command so I can leash him up if another dog is approaching. Will jump puddles, ditches, and small logs on request. Will stop when I ask him to not run through a muddy section and “walk it” over the log bridge instead. Picks up the appropriate paw on command if the leash is tangled under his leg.
He DOES mug people for treats but that is because of what other people taught him. My biggest regret. I taught him that “food = butt on the ground.” Other people, as they tend to do with short dogs, repeatedly said “Oh, that’s ok!” and pet him or give him treats while he’s standing on them. Ah well.
Bruce says
@em: Well said! Our dogs are nowhere near my size but they definitely run faster. Since my main training goal is off-leash response, the principle is similar: I need the dog to WANT to recall, on time, every time.
Unfortunately Red Dog’s recall has been less than stellar lately. Transcript from this morning:
Me: “Red Dog, come!”
Red Dog: “Oh, did you say something . . . let me think about it . . . oh, okay I suppose I could mosey over in your general direction . . . hang on, interesting smell . . . okay, I’m here, where is my reward?”
I kept saying “try again” and giving her the opportunity to earn a reward, but Red Dog was in a particularly distracted mood (I suspect lots of fresh rabbit tracks). In a fit of pique I had her do several recalls away from her dog food bowl before allowing her to eat breakfast. Sigh.
On the way home I will pick up some particularly enticing soft treats, and this weekend we will do some one-on-one work.
On topic: We use scissors-type clippers for the dogs’ nails. The Pug requires two people and a big bag of treats, but the other dogs are reasonably tolerant. I do need a bigger set of clippers 55-pound Red Dog’s nails. The internet recommends Miller’s Forge Large Dog Nail Clippers (orange handle) or Safari Professional Nail Trimmer (large dogs). Opinions?
KT says
Wow..luckily I have never had to deal with trimming my dog’s nails. He’s 8 1/2 now and has never had his nails clipped. For some reason, walking 3 to 4 miles a day on some sort of hard surface keeps his nails worn down..either that or he doesn’t have nails that grow quickly! I notice them getting longer in the winter when there is nothing but snow that is not abrasive so once a week we walk on the asphalt bike path for 4 miles and that keeps the nails in check. Maybe his nails are softer than normal and wear down quickly? Lucky for me because it would certainly be a battle to clip his nails!
Beth says
Bruce, One word to freshen Red Dog’s recall: Bacon.
I don’t use it often– it’s terrible for them– but the memory of bacon lingers a very long time.
Two other things I do is use catch-and-release often when off leash. And use jackpot rewards of about ten to twenty small treats periodically. Real cooked meat or cheese is a good jackpot reward.
I also try to give one treat after the leash is clipped most times.
Since Jack is particularly talented at finding his own things to eat while loose, I need to heavily reinforce recall to keep him reliable.
AddisonBear says
If anyone is having trouble, you might try different positions with the BEST treats (not usual training treats) + going slow. One of mine (rescue) much preferred a really firm grip on ONE toe but not her foot so that the Dremel’s vibration didn’t go up her paw, and we did nails sitting on the couch–she would run to the couch when I said “who wants to be a Cheese Dog?” because cheese was reserved for nails. Her sister got her nails done blacksmith-style–she’d stand, I’d stand straddling her facing her skinny behind and cradle each paw facing upward/backward to Dremel. She tolerated but never loved being a Cheese Dog. Current two are retired mama dogs from a breeder and are used to a grooming table, so they stand on the coffee table and lean into me while the Dremel is going
“doberdawn” has a good web site with instructions and pictures of how to Dremel–easier for me to understand than the Susan Garret vet description, FWIW.
Bambi says
Nail trimming is the bane of my existence. I was trying to have this at a groomer but after 3 months of success, Emma had a bad experience with a groomer so that has been taken off the table. The next month, I took her to the vet for her nails. I explained to the vet that she was skittish and had had a bad experience. Vet and vet tech came back to report the nails were done but Emma had bitten them both and apparently does not like being placed on her side for nail trimming. I was horrified she’d bitten someone and even more horrified thinking, how in the world will I ever get her nails done. I’m going to try the method with the rewards. I rescued her at 2 months old and have always “held” her hands and massaged her “fingers.” For the last 6 weeks since her last nail trim, I’ve been picking up trimmers and letting her check them out but as soon as I go near a nail, she’s goes bonkers.
Chris from Boise says
@AddisonBear – Thank you for the DoberDawn tip; I just checked out her dremel instructions. Both text and photos are excellent! (Actually, all the links and info people have provided have been great).
@Bambi – So sorry that Emma had two bad experiences in a row. From my limited experience, it might be helpful to just leave the “poisoned” clippers behind and switch to a grinder and start completely over, breaking the behavior into tiny, tiny pieces as Trisha described above, with lots of rewards for every miniscule bit of progress. Or try training her to the scratch board (per @Judi); it would be a totally different experience, and she might be calmer since she controls the action.
Habi does much better with what to her is still pretty scary, if she chooses to lie down (‘just relax’) for me rather than have Mike restrain her. Emma might feel the same way. Good luck with your training challenge – just take it slow and think about how to turn it into a game.
Bruce says
@Beth: Bacon is a great idea, but fortunately a new bag of soft treats has put the enthusiasm back in Red Dog’s recall. I will keep bacon in mind, though, if I need to “go nuclear”.
Claire Aston says
Interesting set of new responses since I last looked – and I definitely agree that positive reinforcement doesn’t result in a bad-mannered, spoiled dog. I have been thinking a lot recently how nice and easy things are when you have a dog who’s been given choices, who’s been shown what’s expected and then rewarded for doing that. For example, after a muddy walk there’s no battle to wash his paws, even though he used to be scared of having the bucket near him; he lifts each foot in turn (well, his fronts, he can’t lift his backs but he shifts his weight as best he can) as we’ve always done it in sequence so that he can predict where I’m going next, and he knows he’ll get a treat at the end. He waits nicely as I fill his snuffle mat or puzzle toys with food before diving in when released. Life is just nicer and easier for both of us.
He is another one who panics if physically restrained, and hugs scare him. Even too much eye contact can be too much pressure for him. He was terrified of needles and used to react violently when restrained to have vet treatment, so when he was diagnosed with lymphoma I had no idea how we were going to be able to do the blood tests and IVs. But a combination of a TTouch body wrap, a new vet practice with different people to break the cycle, and lots and lots of treats, meant that now he will stand without anyone touching him to have his temperature taken, he just needs his head lifted a bit to take blood from his neck and he lies down and shovels treats into his face during his IVs. I know for a fact that with the sort of restraint some people use, it would have been a very different story.
Finally… a couple more trimming tips I just thought of – I have Rollo lie on his side to have his nails dremelled. He is a long-legged lurcher who struggles to stand on three legs for long, and it’s much easier for him to lie on his side and relax, looking at his bucket of treats, while I do his nails. Easier for me too as I don’t have to hold a paw up and can mark and treat whenever I want. We have worked and continue to work on a lie on his side (which is the way he prefers to sleep anyway) when not doing his nails, so that it’s not just associated with that.
I also use a powerful small torch and put it on the floor behind the nail I’m grinding. It shows the quick on his lighter nails and gives a good idea of it on his darker nails. If I need to see better I lift the paw and shine the torch right behind the nail, then put it down again and remember what I’ve seen. Bit blinding for me if I look directly at it though 🙂
I did his front nails again yesterday and the tip about rotation direction is still working!
Randall Ring says
The commentary here is very interesting and educational. Obviously there is very diverse range of how-to’s.
Rebecca M’s tone and described technique for nail trims and belief that forcing every dog into submission, is not only very disturbing, it indicates a callous attitude and potentially induces harmful and traumatizing affects to the dog. I completely agree with Beth’s comments. I experienced 4 groomers before finding one that handled my two dogs with safety, understanding, compassion, and quality grooming. While the level of ignorance and incompetence in dog ownership, health care, services, food suppliers, and other related pet industry businesses, is no longer shocking to me, it is still hard to believe.
Dena (Izzee's Mom) says
My two English Springer Spaniels get their nails ground while on our grooming table. The grinder was a godsend for me, as I have nerve damage causing weakness in my hand. I wondered for years how people could pull off that sudden snap with the clippers, before my problem was diagnosed.
Pixie jumps up on the table and immediately gives me a paw, even when she’s actually up there for a haircut! If she’s not too pleased with whatever I’m doing, her first response is to offer me a paw (or the other paw). I conditioned her slowly, with lots of treats, petting, and praise. I’ve used the grinder with her from the beginning.
With Ford, I started with clippers, then switched to the grinder as I began to have trouble with my hand.
The noise of the grinder hasn’t been an issue for us, as my dogs are used to having their heads and ears shaved with the electric clippers.
And, Trisha, the Dremel [brand name] is a hardware store tool, for which you can get lots of different attachments for various purposes. It wasn’t originally designed for grooming dog nails. I applaud the bright person who first thought of using it for that purpose!
Peggy McCallum says
For Facebook types, there is a very good, supportive and R+ list called Nail Maintenance for Dogs. There are excellent resources pinned and now probably millions of good photos to illustrate and inspire. Good explanations here of the alternate cut line which can help overgrown nails as it seems to encourage the quick to recede.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/nail.maintenance.for.dogs/?ref=ts&fref=ts
Barb says
My guys over the years have seemed to prefer the Dremel to clipping the nails. Our vet thought that even sharp clippers may be putting pressure on the quick as the nail is compressed prior to cutting. She would always make multiple small cuts to each nail which the dogs didn’t seem to mind but I never mastered so I continued with the grinders.
An earlier comment mentioned the nail trimming video by Dr. Leslie Woodcock which is were I learned of a more comfortable Dremel tool. I’d used the regular battery Dremels, corded Dremels with an 18″ extension piece, but finding the battery powered Dremel Stylus was such an improvement in my ability to safely and effectively handle the tool. Unfortunately Dremel no longer makes the Stylus, but there are other manufacturers with an identical product. Here’s the Dremel Stylus (why they ever stopped making it is beyond me but there are other similar products currently available from other manufacturers). Now if only they’d make one with a reversing drive so it would be easier to do all the nails and dewclaws).
http://dremelnewsroom.com/dremelenewsletters/February2011/index.html#2
Brian Galindo says
A great way i’ve found to keep their fur away from the grinder…. Panty hose! slip them over the paw and pull the nail through hose. Keeps the fur at bay 😉
axel says
Thank you for the thoughts on nail trimming and best article for dog nail clippers
Luci says
As a groomer, I always try to give the dog the benefit of the doubt when doing nails. We start off very relaxed with me holding the foot and I start clipping and the whole time they’re quietly letting me clip, they’re getting praise and if it’s a new dog or a puppy, they get tons of praise and a short break after each foot. I always start on the back feet so the dog knows what to expect. I also try different positions of holding feet if the dog is being uncooperative. As for dogs thrashing around in a manner that could hurt them, 9/10 they calm down when you’re holding them. For small dogs like Chihuahuas I gently wrap one arm underneath their stomach and one loosely around the chest. I also do this for large dogs but they still have to stand because I can’t pick them up. Most dogs react to the holds like a thundershirt and with enough affection and praise they see everything was fine. I also do this for older dogs because it means the other groomer doesn’t have to manipulate the legs as much at potentially cause pain, and the older large dog gets support in case they feel like they may fall. Many vets and groomers will just automatically hold a dog down and traumatize them, but you have to go on a case by case basis. Most of the time with older small dogs I will just hold and have someone else do the nails whether they’re good or bad just for their comfort. I never want a dog to have a bad experience at my salon because they just get worse when they come back. Once they realize that by touching their feet and clipping/grinding nails I am not killing them, they come around.
dalila says
Great article. it’s very helpful to know informations about cut dog nails