A recent comment motivated this post. It was from a veterinarian who tries her hardest to alert clients to current and potential behavioral problems, and is a tad frustrated on occasion by how few of them seem to take her cautions seriously. I am sure that other vets, dog trainers and behaviorists are all sighing in sympathy as they read this. I sure am. It is such a common problem that I thought it might be worthwhile for us all to have a brain storming session about how to handle it. All of the pro’s reading this blog know what I mean: a 3 month old puppy in puppy class who plays well with others, but growls at you as you approach. Growling at a person at 12 weeks of age? ALARM BELLS! RED FLAGS! DIVE DIVE (the submarine)!!!
So, here’s the question. If you are a pro, how do you handle it when you see signs of impending (or current) problems? If you are not in the business, how would you want someone to tell you that they saw something that concerned them?
Here are some things I have learned that seem to help, but just like everyone else, the more ideas I have the better, so I’d love to hear yours:
1. Make analogies to human behavior. This is where being anthropomorphic can actually help our dogs. I’ll say something like “Right now your adolescent dog is like a teenage son who has drugs hidden under his bed, and is hanging out with guys named Rat Sniffer and the Dude from Hell. He’s a good kid, your son, but he could go either way. He needs you to benevolently intervene so that he ends up living a wonderful life, instead of making license plates in a federal prison.” I’ll adapt the story, depending on the people… making guesses about what will best resonate with them.
2. Don’t exaggerate, and don’t bring it up until you have established a connection. They must believe that you are on their side and that you want nothing but the best for you and your dog. If something happens the instant they walk in the door, keep your mouth shut until you’ve worked with them for awhile, made gooey over their dog (as best you can) and made it clear that you want to be their helper, not someone who judges them or their dog. If you don’t feel as though you are getting through, it is always a good idea to ‘mirror’ their behavior, which means speaking slowly if they speak slowly, leaning forward if they lean forward, crossing your legs if they cross their legs.. etc. Whenever I do it I am sure that someone will notice and think I’m making fun of them, but so far no one ever has. (Until now….. when I meet one of you and you ask me at a break in a seminar what to do about your 7 fighting dogs and I can tell you don’t like my answer. Sigh. Oh well, if you notice, then you’ll know I’m desperately trying to tell you something!)
3. Talk about it from the dog’s point of view. This is hugely important in most cases. It’s how you let people know that you are on their side, but that part of your job is to try to be an advocate for their dog. Again, make analogies and use the good side of anthropomorphism: (“And how would you respond if a strange man walked up to you on the street, grabbed your head and pressed his lips onto yours?”)
4. At the same time, although this might sound contradictory, we also need to be adept at explaining how dogs are different from people. (“Well, your dog probably greets you at the door with head and tail down, licking her lips and groveling because she is using what’s called ‘appeasement’ behavior (give an example from humans), not because she “feels guilty. If you grab her collar and drag her over to the puddle on the carpet she won’t understand why and respond as if she has to defend herself.”
5. Use visuals: Have posters (like the ones from Dream Dog Productions) on your office walls that show visual signals of stress or social discomfort in dogs. Have “before and after” photos of fearful puppies hiding from visitors at 3 months, and and “after” version showing their teeth at two years.
This is a short list, and if I had more time I’d add more to it, but it’s a conversation starter… I’d love to hear your ideas.
Meanwhile, back at the farm: Finally, as of this morning, all sheep butts are red! Yeah, Redford did his job. Took 2 weeks for all of them to come in. That’s longer than I’d like (it’s nice when lambing comes to have the lambs come closer together when you have a flock as small as mine), but at least I know when everyone if due and when they are bred. (They are all due now in late March and early April. You’ll be the first to see lamb photos.)
Here was Will last week, helping me keep the flock safely away from the road.
Jane says
I’m not in the business, and while I’ve become reasonably dog-savvy in the last few years, there’s still a lot I have to learn. I would be one of those people who would know enough to bring my puppy to a puppy class, and would be congratulating myself for just being there. Which is whyyour message–that my new puppy, to whom I’m becoming quickly very attached, is not just “full of spunk” as I thought but instead is a walking time bomb–would be pretty devastating. My first thought would be, she wants me to put the dog down now, before things get worse. Or I would think that you’re blaming me for what the dog is turning out to be, even if I’ve had little Lucky only a few weeks. And so I think that all the tactful steps that you outline above–get to know the owner well enough so they respect you, and use a little light humor when you deliver this message–are essential. You would owe it to me to prove your point, and those visuals that you mention, or some specific case studies, would be instrumental in doing so. Otherwise I might be inclined to think you’re just a wacko, ask for a refund from the class, and walk. But you do need to get my full attention, and hopefully drive in just how serious this could be, before we started getting into little details of behavior modification.
Jude says
Hi Trish and others, SInce I am no longer actively working with clients, I find this forum a great place to still talk dogs. Again, though not seeing my own clients- I still get this question from friends, neighbors, you know- informal situations. I’m sure there will be lots of comments- but my standard first response is that I tell the client that I am appreciative that the pup has communicated that he is feeling uncomfortable. With the growl he is demonstrating a display of discomfort, he is alerting us “I’m not digging this situation right now.” Then it’s time to usually to gather more info- talk about the difference between say… oh a space issue turning into a safety issue. So, for example if the dog is feeling crowded and can’t move away from the approaching individual- certainly I am not going to intensify the pressure and turn a space issue into a safety issue and teach the dog he has to defend. So, sometimes I’ll role model a social pressure game with the human- “as in backing them into a corner” and asking them how they feel when they have no option to move away. Usually they say they want to “bite me.”If now, they suddenly have a way to move away from the pressure, into a hallway let’s say- well, they’ve learned they can relieve some of that feeling of being boxed in . So, I try to role model or role play how I am guessing the dog might feel given my best insights. With kids, I often pat them on the head til it drives them nuts, or tickle them and pretend that they should be loving it and then I ignore their requests to stop. When I ask the kid how that felt… well, I got all sorts of negative responses. They usually relate well to this example.
Then, I go into work mode with the dog and human- to help them get more comfortable, help the dog to learn to move away if needed, and certainly teach the human not to make things worse by unknowingly putting more pressure on the given sensitivity. Perhaps a fear stage is emerging. Basically, diminish the sensitivity, manage the dog, and the people while teaching the dogs a skill- and really drive home to the owner- not to make matters worse by forcing the pup to “deal with the problem.” I’m pretty tough on my clients that their dog is looking to them for safety and not to expect a dog to be “bomb proof”. .I often found with the general public, that with young pups so often owners would unknowingly put a lot of social pressure, space pressure on a pup and expect them to deal with it. Often times, prior to the growl, the pup was showing signs of discomfort that led to the growl, that could then lead to more advanced displays of defensiveness. So, I try to give the human tools to be empathetic and the skills to turn things around.
Sounds easy, don’t it? By the way, I saw this a lot with goldens of this age, and I think part of it is that people expect goldens to be so “go with the flow”.
Jude
Megan says
Great entry! I’m a real newbie when it comes to dog behavior and training. We have had rescued senior greyhounds over the years but after lots of research and reading and discussing got an English Shepherd puppy this spring. I’ve been taking puppy classes and basic obedience creeping up the ladder to the agility and herding worlds. Overall the biggest challenge regarding behavior / trainers is exactly what you are referring to: communication. The trainers / behaviorists we’ve experienced may have a deep understanding of dogs but their communication skills with people lacks a bit of shall we say, finesse. I am hungry for someone to give me any intelligent feedback they can regarding my pup and my training because they can see what I can’t. I think lots of trainers/ behaviorists tend to be tight-lipped because they don’t know how to say things. When one said to the gal with the lunging adolescent black lab, “You need to get your dog under control” I want to know why they said that (I think the lunging was why but really, some people just think “my dog just likes to pull suddenly at people and dogs, he is just strong”), how to do it (in case my dog does that next class!) and what other folks should do when they encounter a dog like that. This might seem run of the mill to the pros but for people like me I want to hear all the obvious take for granted things like, “When your dog’s tail is like x it means x and you should do x about it.”
Also, idea for upcoming post: what to do with your puppy /dog when crazy relatives who are not dog savvy and watch too much C. Milan come for Thanksgiving! eeeek!
Mary says
I sure wish someone in that capacity had pointed me in the right direction with my dog when he was 10 wks old and growling at everyone he met. The vet never addressed it. The receptionist saw him growl as each new person came into the waiting room and said “Uh-Oh, he’s going to be like that for the rest of his life”. I didn’t know what to do. I had had several other pups and never had one that reacted that way. I started off doing the wrong things by telling him to knock it off when he growled. That obviously didn’t work. He progressed from growling and alternately backing up and lunging forward to lunging forward and trying to bite simultaneously. I finally did some reading and began trying to desensitize him. I took him lots of places and tried having people feed him etc… I just totally bungled around for years trying to find the right approach. I eventually got him around 80% reliable when strangers would walk by us, but of course that leaves the other 20%. I got so afraid he would hurt someone that I have made his world smaller and smaller so as to avoid as many potential bites as possible. That makes me so sad for him. I got so discouraged trying to “change” him that I finally decided after five years (he’s 7 now) to give up the intensive work and “manage” the behavior. Oddly, once I gave up on changing him I have enjoyed him more. Still, owning a dog with an aggression history stretching back to early puppyhood is so much more stressful that I could ever have imagined. Add to that the fact that his breeder and lots of other people have blamed his aggression on me and some failure of mine to be an effective leader, and it’s been quite a lonely ride. I will take responsibility for not knowing how to handle his aggression and probably making it worse at first, but I don’t see how I could have “made” him that way at such a young age…and in having him with me for less than a day when I first saw his aggression… So much for support huh?
Khris Erickson says
I thought you did a great job explaining what you would do in that situation – most of them are things that I already do as a dog trainer, and I’ll probably borrow the others.
One thing that popped to mind is that I think we need to know when to let it go. Sometimes with clients you run a very fine line between getting through to them, and being too pusy and alienating them. If you’re too pushy you alienate people and then might lose any opportunity to help them down the road because they are no longer open to your help.
I’ve also come to realize that there will always be people who really don’t want to hear what I have to say, and that no matter how I approach it they won’t be willing to take my advice. I’ve learned that I can’t continue to agonize over the future of the puppy or dog that is involved — if I did I’d burn out really quickly. I try to help the dog in the capacity the owner is willing, hope they seek my help or the help of someone else in the future, and in the meantime let it go and realize it’s no longer in my hands.
Pike says
Not being a pro, how would I want someone to tell me that they saw something in my dog that concerned them?
Well, if the concern is related to aggression, I wouldn
Cathy says
Thanks so much for the information and insights you have shared, here and in your wonderful books. I imagine the situation you are describing is a very common one but, interestingly, I’m having the opposite problem. My dog recently began to exhibit aggressive behavior towards other dogs and I’m having the hardest time getting anyone to pay attention–my guess is that it’s because she hasn’t actually hurt anyone yet, although she has made contact on a number of occasions. I know plenty of dog owners who manage to ignore the behavior that’s right in front of them, but I’m learning that it can happen to professionals, too.
Cynthia says
For me, number two was most important. I came out of my first visit with a behaviorist feeling hopeless, like the sweetheart my dog was at home was totally invisible and all that was important was the aggression he displayed in a strange and unfamiliar environment. I have two dogs with various issues, and I would give up if I didn’t take the time to enjoy their strengths-affection at home, excellent frisbee fetching, and so on. I would love to hear more “case studies,” situations in which a dog like mine got better and how. I understand the various exercises and learning processes, but I am desperate for someone who went through this process who can offer details and encouragement. If anyone wants to start a reading club/support group in the Madison area, let me know!
By the way, I really enjoyed your talk in Janesville.
Holly says
First thing I do is “make gooey” with their dog (love that….am shamelessly stealing it too).
Just like with kids, everyone wants to think their dog is the cutest, smartest, somethingest and the surest way to win over a parent (dog or child) is to find something nice to say and *mean it*.
Then that leads to questions like “how can i help you?” “did you call because of something that concerns you or are you just being proactive?” and that can lead to what I’ve seen, but I still have to phrase it as if it’s not earth shattering and as if it’s fixable. Most are fixable at least to some degree or another.
Amy W. says
I believe one reason many people ignore warnings from vets, trainers, and other professionals is because they do not understand canine behavior or the implications. Ignorance is bliss, until it isn’t and it bites the neighbor.
I am not a professional, so my answer to your question would be: I would want the professional to explain what their concern is, how it is or will be detrimental, and then help me solve the problem. It may seem tedious to explain the same thing over-and-over to every new client, but most of your clients will not be on your level of understanding, and will need the extra explaination. If you hurry through the concern or explaination, why should the client give it a lot of weight?
Case In Point:
When my dog, Axle, was 4 months old, at the end of an exam the vet said to me that she noticed Axle hid behind me and barked at her when she entered the room. She then offered free toe nails trims, so I could bring Ax in and help him feel good about being at the vet. 5 years later and lot of canine behavior reading on my own, I understand what (and why) she trying to do me and for my dog. However, at the time, I did not understand why this was important nor did I think it was that big of a deal, and the vet did not clearly explain the entire situation to me, so I ignored her offer – thinking I can trim the dog’s toe nails just fine on my own. If only I had known then what I know now…
puppynerd says
I think the most important thing for me would be for them to start with questions, not answers. i.e. ‘do you see what she’s doing now?’ ‘does she do X at home?’ ‘what training have you been doing?’
And then actually listen to the answers, as opposed to just assuming I’m a clueless dork who has no idea what’s going on with my dog (even if I am). Nobody likes to feel dumb. You covered a lot of this in point two, but I thought it bore mentioning.
Also, if you’re not in a professional setting, it’d be more effective to give advice as examples, not commands. So, ‘I had a dog that did X, and Y really helped’ as opposed to ‘you should….’. Unless you already have some sort of rapport, you’re just a stranger in a pet store, even if you do say you’re a vet. Nobody likes a bossy stranger.
Kim says
I am a first time dog owner and not in the dog training business. I have a dog who is fearful and aggressive and before getting help with a behaviorist, I would have liked to have been told of worrying signals, particularly from my vet, who I later found out noted on my dog’s record that he was aggressive well before I understood the signals. After meeting the behaviorist, I learned about alternatives to handling and exercise, like Canicross and Skijorring. Instead of being defensive or dismayed about my dog’s behavior, I was now looking forward to trying a new activity that would be better for both of us. Offering alternatives instead of just focusing on the bad behavior can help disarm owners and get them excited about working with their dogs. Incidentally, my dog has dog-on-dog aggression and is an obsessive sniffer. Often, we will sit at a comfortable distance to watch other dogs. As soon as they move away, my dog moves in quickly to soak up the scent.
Keli says
I am not a trainer, but being “dog savy” as my friends call it (but it is really just listening to Trisha on the radio for almost 20 years and reading her books, LOL!!!) here is a problem I have found when giving information out to those who ask. When you suggest things to try, they don’t like what they hear because it takes too long. Too many steps – they want an instant fix. I think in part it is from all the TV shows that wrap a problem up in a half hour. Even the TV shows that use more of a positive method make it look like problems can be solved quickly. When I tell people to work on something for a couple of weeks before going on to step two they look at me like I am crazy!
But I want to say for all you vets or trainers out there that are trying to help, keep trying. Even if some of your clients blow you off, if one student or one client takes you seriously and does turn their dog around then that’s one less problem dog out there! Kudos to all of you that keep trying to help!
Keli
Leah says
In my situation, I’d love for someone to tell me something like that if they had any ideas for how to fix it. Right now, I have an aggressive dog who hasn’t bitten (yet) but will just randomly pick someone to bark scarily at – and we can’t figure out any trigger or anything. He’s got aggressive signals in other situations too (food and toy possessive, growls when collar is grabbed, etc), and honestly I am just not sure what to do at this point. My husband is dismissive of it and works long hours, and I have two little kids (yes, of course they are always separated from the dog unless under constant supervision) which limits my ability to work with him even if I knew exactly what to do – which I don’t. I would love to send him to one of those doggy boot camps or something, but he’s ridiculously attached to us (mainly my husband – he’s a shelter dog, perhaps that is why?) and I think he’d freak. So anyway, my rambling story is that if someone were to tell me that, I would be fine, I would just really need a “next steps” discussion to go from there or else I’d just feel more lost and stressed about it than I already do. (and of course, I welcome ideas here as well :-))
Jessie says
I’m not what you would call a pro, but am very experienced with dogs. I also do a great deal of dog-walking and pet sitting. Luckily, I don’t meet a lot of dogs with brewing behavioral problems, although I do meet quite a few people who marvel that I can walk the dog calmly while they are being yanked every which way, sometimes even by a very small dog!
In these situations I explain that I don’t have any ‘doggie magic’, I’ve just learned some things along the way that they can also learn. Most people think that training a dog will be very intuitive, while it is actually a skill. Everyone can learn a skill and how to perform that skill better. They weren’t born, nor did they expect be born, knowing how to drive a car, perform accounting, rewire a lamp, read a map, etc.–they learned! Dog training is the same and they can learn how to train better, too. This seems to keep most people see that they have not somehow failed or are under personal attack, but in fact expected too much from themselves and their dog. It gives them an action plan and the confidence that they can make an impact with a little practice and the right tools.
It’s more frequent that I notice a brewing health problem (persistent diarrhea, teeth that need cleaning, matting in the coat, etc.)
But the ideas you outlined work well in both cases. Unless it’s an emergency (as it sometimes is with health issues) , I wait ’til there’s some relationship, call and ask if I can stop by for a chat and go from there. It goes pretty much as you outlined. The only thing that may be different, and I suspect you do this but didn’t jot it down, is to reinforce and compliment everything they are doing well for the dog every chance I get.
darlene says
I do petsitting, and often have new dog owners anxiously bombard me with questions about their dog(s). While I refer them to a trainer or vet, I often can help by using I statements and making sure I’m very clear that I’m not accusing them of being bad dog parents. I also make it sound as if they have already decided to take appropriate actions, and I always stress that everything is fixable or at least manageable, and that one should always get a professional opinion.
So the conversation goes something like this: “Hey, while I was taking care of Spot today, I noticed that she growled at every person who walked past us–does she do that with you, too? You know, I’ve taken care of several dogs/had a dog/had a friend with a dog who did the same thing, and it turned out to actually be a symptom of a larger issue–luckily I think you’ve caught it in time. My understanding is that growling at such a young age may be a sign of aggression issues which can only get worse, except that you’ll be able to intervene now and manage this so it doesn’t become a problem! Here is some literature I printed out for you on this stuff, and you may want to get into that puppy class sooner rather then later–and don’t forget that card I gave you for my trainer–she’s awesome and will really develop a personalized course for your baby. ”
If they are resistant I get personal. I have a dog-aggressive rescue, and so I explain how hard it was for me to figure out what was happening and then learn to manage it, and how helpful my trainer was, and that not fixing the problem doesn’t make it go away, that this isn’t an issue of them doing something wrong, but of the dog’s personality. How my two dogs now get along, but it was a process. Every dog is different, even within breeds. If they have kids the parallels are obvious.
Liz F. says
I am not a dog professional.
How I would like to be told- my background may make me an exception here, but I would probably respond best to questions… not exactly being told, rather being made to realize the problem on my own with the help of skillfully selected questions.
I spent a few years as a college-level liberal arts tutor and was encouraged to use the Socratic method of questioning whenever possible. Asking a series of questions to try to make someone form a cohesive point of view or stance, then following up with more questions to flush out inconsistencies, can be the greatest way to empower an individual rather than kind of force feeding information. Less likely to be viewed as judgmental in many cases. Also can lead people to discover that they care about something more than they had previously thought because of deeper connections to other issues that concern them.
The downside, this can make you seem a bit like a lawyer. Not everyone’s cup of tea, but personally, I love great questions!
Kerry L. says
I am a formerly novice owner who would have given ANYTHING for some caring assistance from a vet or trainer. It’s hard to hear negative feedback about a dog you love and who is a mushball at home, so establishing a relationship and, as Holly said above, finding something positive in the dog with the problem would be extremely helpful. I think it’s easier to accept critiques and/or suggestions that come from a position of caring and not just “because I’m the professional”.
Lynn says
In another comment, Cynthia wrote: “I came out of my first visit with a behaviorist feeling hopeless, like the sweetheart my dog was at home was totally invisible and all that was important was the aggression he displayed in a strange and unfamiliar environment.” I can relate!
I am also a first-time dog owner with a fearful and aggressive dog. I didn’t need a professional to point her problems out to me, but I did hope for someone to help me understand them better, devise solutions, and perhaps help me implement them. What I got was something very like what Cynthia describes: an intensely overwhelming consultation which left me feeling utterly hopeless. The behaviorist is knowledgeable and experienced, and I didn’t disagree with her evaluation. But she failed to connect to me or my dog, and didn’t display a great deal of empathy for either of us. Equally importantly, she had only one concrete suggestion on how she might work with us, and the suggested method wasn’t the right one for us at that time.
What I probably needed was someone who could listen to me, recognize that I’m serious about doing the right thing for my dog, and make a good faith effort to connect to me (which is easily done with some minimal compliment for my dog!). And then follow those things up by discussing options, giving examples of specific training methods, and offering whatever concrete assistance is possible. A morale boost would have been appreciated too — “yes, your dog has problems, but with hard work, consistency, and patience I think you two can make a lot of progress!”
Or put more simply: be kind to me, be kind to my dog, and try to be as clear as possible in communicating problems, solutions, and information. Whether it is pointing out a problem or dealing with one I’ve already identified, a little kindness goes a long way.
Kat says
I’m not a professional but I am continually studying and learning about dog behavior and what to watch for. I consider myself reasonably dog savvy but not actually an expert. The first thing I need before I’ll hear any criticism (or anything that I might take as criticism) of my perfect pup is respect for the person telling me their concerns. I’ve had people tell me that my dog was aggressive after watching him play with his friends at the dog park. He and his pals do play rough and they like to make the snarly faces and play growls but if you actually watch them they aren’t connecting with their teeth, it’s all mock battle with relaxed bodies, weight on the back legs, tails held in a relaxed/neutral position. They’re also taking frequent quick breaks and offering lots of play bows. When the person who wants to tell me that my dog is aggressive has a dog that greets everyone entering the park with fierce barking and growls, greets all dogs with the head thrust over the back and weight on the front legs I’m not going to listen at all. On the other hand, if it is someone that has a good-natured well mannered dog and clearly has a great relationship with their dog and knows what they’re talking about I’m going to take their concerns seriously. In other words, unless I’m convinced you know what you’re talking about I’m not going to listen so show me your skills first. The next thing I’d want would be a description of what you see that is of concern–don’t start by telling me my dog shows aggressive tendencies start by telling me that you’ve noticed my dog greets all other dogs with his weight on his front legs and a hard stare, go on to tell me what that means and why it is an issue. And please, know the difference between dominance and aggression. Ranger is a dominant dog but he is not aggressive.
When I have advice for people based on what I see them doing that could improve their success with their dog I generally couch it in terms of what I’ve learned from training my dog. I see a lot of people who can’t get their dog to come when it is time to leave the park and can’t catch their dog either because the dog is having fun and doesn’t want to leave. I point out that rather than having Ranger’s leash clipped to the fence I wear it draped across my shoulder as a sash and explain that the reason I do that is to remove his ability to guess when we have to go–if he doesn’t have the clue of the leash being picked up he doesn’t know whether he’ll be getting an ear scratch and/or a treat or the leash attached and taken out. I also share how when we first got him Ranger was every bit as intent on ignoring me and continuing to have fun so I’d make a point of calling him over whenever he wasn’t doing something fun and giving him a wonderful treat and some loving so he’d never know when it was time to leave. Some people learn from that and I’ll see them implementing it others blow it off so I can’t say it is a hugely successful strategy but I haven’t had anyone get defensive about me offering advice so that’s probably a plus.
Alexandra says
As a first time dog owner, it was a difficult process for me to realize my fear-aggresive rescue, Izzy, had a problem serious enough to need professional help. I didn’t realize the magnitude of her issues until well after she had tried to bite several people, almost pulled me into traffic, and gotten in fights with a couple of dogs with whom she had previously seemed friendly. In retrospect and having the knowledge I do now, there were plenty of warning signs that her fear was severe and that she wasn’t emotionally capable of “just getting over it.”
I wish my vet at the time had said something. On our first few visits, Izzy was so terrified that she expressed her anal glands, and I didn’t even know that was seriously abnormal. I wish someone had done something as simple as asking me if I knew why dogs did that instead of handing me an air freshener for the car ride home.
I found a new, much more progressive vet years ago and we don’t have those issues now.
Thinking back on my early experiences with trainers and just passers-by on the street, I think I would have appreciated an honest, constructive comment about my dog so long as it were not phrased to be judging or blaming. I knew deep down that we needed help long before I picked up the phone to find a behaviorist. Once I actually started working with a professional, I found that being asked questions and encouraged to work things out myself was the most instructive.
Anna says
I am not a pro just a concerned dog owner but I would want a trainer or vet to point out and issue if they see one could arrise. I would want a caring approach in helping me to see what concerns them and why. Also I would want them to give real ideas/help with the solution. With that said I have a question that has come up from this blog and that is my 13 week old PWC pup growls alot when wrestling with my 11 month old PWC pup who doesn’t growl at all. Now if I interupt she does not growl at me nor have I noticed her growling at other people or dogs. Do I have a potential problem that requires a behaviorist or is this normal puppy behavior?
Trisha says
To Anna: Growling during play is extremely common and by itself not a problem. Lots of dogs growl while playing so don’t worry as long as both dogs appear to be enjoying themselves and your young dog doesn’t become so aroused that she becomes “out of control” and slides into aggression. That’s easier to explain while watching, but you get the general idea. With any 2 dogs, it is always a good idea to teach them a “that’s enough” cue, so that when you think things might be getting a little bit too “I went to a fight and a hockey game broke out,” you can quietly stop the play and re direct them.
kate says
I prefer the honest approach.
I was lucky to have booked a private with a positive reinforcement trainer (Alice at Dogsmart) come to assess and help with my puppy introduction to my dog ( 7yrs ago now). She explain the behaviours that I was watching first hand…were not “usual puppy” behaviour and explained why. At that time she asked if there was a possibility of returning him to the breeder.
Lost in my puppy love….I heard what she said but it didn’t sink in. She didn’t push matters which I am thankful for because I really don’t think I would have accepted them. She knew he was enrolled in her puppy class so she’d see me again 🙂
From the first puppy class and it was clear as day the difference of my pup’s behaviour compared the rest of the puppies. Slowly over the course of a few weeks, I began to see the progression of growling displays towards, strangers, dogs, anything that moved.
When I was ready to accept her words of wisdom..she then let me know what road lay ahead for us if I choose to keep the puppy, again, explaining full details. Saying things like; no kids, possibly keeping guests separate, no dog park and lots of sub threshold desensitization and counter conditioning without guarantee that any of it would make him a social butterfly. She would be there for support.
She even went as far as telling me about a behaviourist (meds) qualified to assess if she could help further by way of meds while the training took place and or for the rest of the pup’s life.
I think she handled it perfectly for me.
1-explaining her observations
2-leaving me with food for thought
3-me being able to see the progression she had spoken of
4-finally after accepting the facts….being able to go to her for support
5-she outlined a couple options and plan of action with no guarantee of a social butterfly, story book outcome, but we wouldn’t know how far he’d progress unless we tried. Having options for me to choose from also made the info easier to digest.
Amanda says
I don’t offer training advice professionally, but I am willing to help when people ask me for it. There are lots of reasons I gave up perusing a professional avenue with training/behavior. This is one of them.
I have, however, seen countless “light bulbs” go on when I explained the dog’s experience in terms their owner could understand because they were in human context. For example, an owner who was having problems with her dog at a dog park couldn’t understand why he was so defensive when new dogs came to greet him. When I explained to her it would be akin to her walking into a huge crowded grocery store and the moment she passed through the doors they locked and every person in the store came running at her. I said “I don’t know about you, but I would be ready to start swinging.” I could tell at that very instant – she got it.
Liz Maslow says
When asked what is the best part of my job, I say that I get to play with puppies all day. I love what I do and am ecstatic that I get to do what I love. Helping people have a better relationship with their dog, is the best job in the world. It is unbelievably fulfilling to see a dog emotionally connected to his human partner, especially when, 3 weeks before, the two of them were connected only by a leash.
That said, when I see a young puppy display behavior that is scary and potentially dangerous and I know that it is up to me to help his owners see what I see and figure out what to do from there, that is the most difficult part of being a trainer.
Your suggestions are wonderful. I find that really listening to what the puppy’s owners are feeling about their puppy and then explaining things from the puppy’s perspective to them helps them to see me as a friend and not someone who thinks their puppy is evil nor someone who is criticizing them about their puppy. Once I feel that the owners trust my opinion, I don’t hold any punches. If there is something I see that concerns me I will tell them. I try to give worst and best case scenarios. I explain the steps of desensitization (if indicated) and also talk about the management that may be involved. I then have them take some time to make decisions, but I am there to support their decision whatever it may be. I want the owners to know that they are not alone.
Pam says
Ten months ago my ACD was a snarling, snapping puppy that I would have happily given away. Trying to do the right thing I took him to Puppy Class and as, in the midst of being held in a ‘down’, he was growling and biting at me, the instructor walked by and blithely said “You better get a handle on that” and continued on to the next pup. That was the last class of his I attended (when he emailed to see if I was taking the next set he got a scathing 2 page reply). I knew I had a problem and I thought I was paying him money to teach me how to work through these issues. Knowing I could not deal with this on my own I sought out the trainer I had worked with several years ago and her assessment was very straightforward and along the lines of “If we don’t get this little monster under control now he’s headed for a needle” Her bluntness did not bother me in the least because she also made it clear that she would be there for me every step of the way.
BTW…the ‘little monster’ just turned 1, is loving agility and freestyle, and is the least dog-aggressive ACD imagineable. His people greetings are a little exhuberant and need some work yet…lol
Jessie says
Darlene, you are a natural salesperson. You are using the Feel, Felt, Found technique. I actually edited this out of my answer for fear of being didactic, but you explained it beautifully!
Client Feels x. You and your clients have Felt X, too. You’ve Found that y has remedied the issue(x), and might you demonstrate y?
Classic sales and customer service. Some people do it naturally and some learn to phrase things in this way (not unlike training!), but it is always effective.
You are acknowledging and validating the clients point of view, telling them they are not alone, and then offering a solution than has worked for others with a similar problem. This is usually highly effective.
Josh says
I am a part time professional and I think the one thing that helps convey both the situation/concern and potential positive solutions is using human (especially toddler/kid) analogies.
The reason I bring up toddlers in particular is that it seems to help client get into the frame of mind to “teach” rather than “correct.”
The other thing that seems to help a lot is bringing up that MY dogs both have issues. This seems to help on two fronts – gets around the clients feeling like I am judging their “bad” dog and let’s me begin the conversion on how to start working on solutions.
The biggest problem I really see is that people just don’t see their dogs behavior for what it is. Just getting clients see basic calming signals/appeasement gestures is huge.
Trish – I would love to hear more about your “mirroring” clients. Does mirroring somehow get people to positively relate to others?
Cynthia says
When I code tapes of mothers playing with their 3-year-olds for parent-child interaction quality, mirroring is one of the items we score them on. In this case it means the mother picks up on the emotional state of the child and reflects it back to them, either through body language or verbally extending and affirming their feelings (“it looks like you feels sad because your block tower fell down,” etc.) Trisha, sounds like you are a high-quality mother to your clients!
Ellen Pepin says
I am not a professional, but I have observed dog behavior for some time. I have also read a lot on the subject including both of Dr. McConnell’s books. When we got our dog, Nikki, we knew we had a problem. She barked and lunged at anyone who moved near her (walkers, joggers etc. We had three different trainers to help her over the problem. All of them used different methods, such as getting the dog to surrender,and basic training. None of these people did her any good. Then, as I read more, I used only positive methods. I taught her the watch command, and rewarded her if she remained calm. It took a very long time, years, to get her to be calm. Thinking back to the trainers, they all thought they had the perfect solution, but not with my dog. She was an individual who’s problems required a special solution. Just as people think there is one great method to teach children to read, it’s not true. You have to tailor the method for the individual.
Our new collie goes wild when a vehicle goes by. We are now working with an Associate Applied Animal Behaviorist. What she suggested was a calming cap over her eyes. She can still see things, but it is very filtered. It worked like a charm at first, but now she reacts to the sounds of cars or the head lights. I see a need for a change of plans. What I want from the behaviorist is to try another method, but it must be positive.
If I had a puppy at a class and the trainer noticed a problem, I would want that person to politely alert me to the problem and have a remediation plan in mind. Then I could be taught how to work with the dog. What I want the most is for the trainer to be flexible and use several methods if one doesn’t work.
Lisa R. says
great discussion – i have to find myself a trainer/behaviorist for my 9mo old pyr/lab mix. his been with us for 3 months. he’s a great dog, but there are some issues: he growled at us once when we tried to take a chew toy away (we usually trade for a treat, but i didn’t want him to swallow this thing) and when running outside-onleash he sometimes jumps up and bumps into me. i’m not sure what that’s about, but i would prefer he didn’t do it. we went through a basic good manners class – but that training was based on dominance theory – i continued the class to help with my dog’s socialization, but didn’t follow their advice with anything that would cause my dog to be fearful. i’ve read a good deal of books on dogs and training, but i do best in a class setting, it keeps me motivated to practice, practice, practice.
i would want a trainer to mention something positive about my dog first even if it’s just about his looks ~ if possible and as others have said above, talk about what the trainer is seeing, not just say ‘aggressive’ behavior, but break it down – lunging, stiff body, etc. and most importantly give the owner some hope that there are things to do that might help lessen the behavior.
Carrie says
“Growling at a person at 12 weeks of age? ALARM BELLS! RED FLAGS! DIVE DIVE (the submarine)!!!”— That sounds just like one of my border collies. My girl came into the world gaurding, growling, and scared.
My vet at the time, first 6 months of ownership, did an awesome job in helping me. This was my first dog, and while I had read up on everything I could about border collies, I was clueless to what makes up normal dog behavior. The vet would often use her dog as an example when explaining behavior. She would say “My border collie does x & y when z happens. Does yours?” The vet would make me feel like we were comparing notes, and then give helpful suggestions. “Have you tried doing X? Some dogs respond very well to X.”
Sadly I moved when my puppy was just 9 months old and I lost that helpful vet. While she helped me alot, the one thing she did not do was give me the tools to work on the issues in her absence. I floundered about for a while until I found a website, books, and others in my situation.
The hardest part is communicating with the professional. I didn’t know that my dog was scared. All I knew was that she would be happy and fine one moment, and then snarling and running away the next. Hearing and reading about how other dogs acted gave me a base to start from.
I still have issues communicating my problems with my new vet. The last time I asked for help with my looney border collie they dismissed my questions about anxiety meds because “she looked fine,” at the moment. She better! I have put a TON of time and energy into teaching her that the vet’s office is the best place ever. Just because I can now bring her into their office and they can treat her without a muzzle doesn’t indicate a full recovery in behavior. I know my dog will never be quite right, and it would be nice if my observations and concerns were taken into consideration.
On that note, my final suggestion would be not to dismiss an owner’s concerns because you, the professional, have more experience and knowledge. The owner is with that dog every day and may see behaviors that are not being exhibited around you.
Pam Coblyn says
Thank goodness for this blog!
I volunteered to assist a trainer at our local club and help teach Intro to Agility. Needless to say, it’s a noisy, active atmosphere. One of the students is a 2 year old Welsh Terrier. Poor little Manny spends the entire class bark screaming and lunging at the end of his leash and my heart goes out to his owner. She’s a sweet woman who simply wanted to have fun with her dog. She swears he’s an angel at home and in the dog park. But in class he’s a one dog tornado and highly disruptive. I am not experienced enough at training to suggest what steps need to be taken to control his reactive behavior. All I could think of was to keep walking him outside to take him away from the noise & other dogs who got him hyper excited. I figured that calming him down in the class was NOT going to happen, so why keep subjecting the poor thing to an environment that was keeping him out of control. The other thing I thought of was to give her a clicker and simple instructions about using it to teach and reward him for sitting and being quiet and attentive to HER. I even printed out basic clicker instructions for her. I’m just not experienced enough but want so desperately to help her and her dog. So thank you for addressing this problem and how to open up a dialog with the owner about behavior modification. The good news is that the club has a Reactive Dog class from time to time….and you’ve given me the confidence to talk to her about taking it.
Rose T. says
As a new trainer, I’ve noticed that many clients have little understanding about canine body language and behavior. Typically, during dog play time and class time, I point out behaviors as I go along and explain what they mean to the client.
I’ve also found that directing them to reliable resources, such as this website (thank you Trisha) helps strengthen my case.
I regularly check up with them during class on problem behaviors to see how they are progressing along and if they are not going the way I think they should be, I’ll offer additional solutions and resources if appropriate. Most importantly, if it is so serious that I can’t handle it myself – I’ll direct them to seek additional professional help from a CAAB or Vet Behaviorist.
The simple act of telling my clients, if we can’t solve this together, I’ll find someone who can, does wonders for building the relationship and ultimately being able to help the dogs under my care.
Adrienne says
I can’t say that I’ve read all the comments but on the post, here are my thoughts.
Firstly, if you “mirrored” me like that *I* would notice. I have had people do it to me and I *have* noticed. I don’t say anything because what do you say? But it would drop you down in my confidence. It is an artificial communications crutch and darn annoying to boot. This is not to say that one shouldn’t adjust their communication to he person being spoken to. Some people need you to be more gentle, some more emphatic, but please be natural about it!
Now, on the dogs. I landed myself with a reactive dog. I went to training classes to get help. I *told* the instructors I thought I need to be in a class for dogs with issues beyind the norm. I struggled through 8 weeks of regular classes. What really would have helped me was learning how to “read” my dog. It was very apparent to me that I was missing things. A dog doesn’t just go nuts without giving warning signals and I knew I was missing them.
I really wish some instructors would offer a class that was only on this. Something on the order of playing a clip of dogs interacting and making the class say what they SAW. Not what the dogs were thinking, just what they did. Then playing the rest of the clip to show what happened next. It would go a long ways to teaching people to observe their dogs. It would undercut current training methods.
Adrienne
Denise says
Many of the suggestions in response to this topic are wonderful. Not all will work with every owner and some owners won
Mary Beth says
This topic is ironic. I agreed to foster and assess a dog for a friend who works as an animal behavior consultant. After a couple days at my house, the dog was loose in my yard about 5 feet away from me. Out of the blue, the dog leapt at me as I was walking through the yard, grabbed my hand and sunk her teeth up to the gums in an uninhibited, unprovoked bite. Two deep puncture wounds, a full mouth impression, lots of swelling and limited use of my hand for two weeks was the result. The dog let go, backed up and sat down. My other half called her into the house, placed her in a crate, and she was fine. I came close to passing out.
My friend’s very first question was “Was it redirected aggression?” Second question was “Did she think you had something in your hand?” The answer is no to both.
The last words on the topic several days later was, “well, I can’t possibly recommend euthanasia. It could just be a fluke”. (with teary eyes).
I have barely spoke with her since then. This is someone who should be able to address the topic and problem more objectively. As I look at the scars on my hand and puzzle over it again and again, I’m afraid that there might be families with dogs with problems that aren’t being fairly addressed.
So, this topic is near and dear right now.
Mary Beth says
Pam, field dog trainers ask me all the time why I bother with agility. They say that obedience has a place, but agility is just a waste.
What I tell them is that agility is where you teach a dog control while in high drive.
I watch more nice dogs that don’t have behavior issues develop issues in agility class when the dog owner can’t balance teaching the task, i.e how to walk across the dog walk or how to go through the tunnel, with controlling the emotions, enthusiasm, drive and motivation in the working dog.
Sounds like your student is a nice lady with a nice dog that simply has to learn that lesson.
Personally, I could teach my dog so many tasks but I couldn’t teach him not to be anxious or calmly focused on an agility course. When I switched from agility to field work, I was able to develop a dog that could work in high drive with control and mental balance. 5 years later, I went back to agility and was able to finish training and achieve excellent level titles…as a true team with my dog with us both having fun. It took a long time for me to see all that.
Nancy says
Wow. Amazing how many people out here have dogs with issues. Me included. I love hearing that it’s OK to have a not-so-cool dog. There is SO much pressure to have a bombproof dog and it has been very disheartening for me to go from my bombproof dog (passed) a bona fide biter. (I have a dog who will bite, and bite hard, if he’s cornered.)
I loved Mary’s note here (she posted early on). I’ve done classes and training, and I’ve worked iwth behaviorists and trainers and I’ve cried to a few vets, and here’s where I’m at now–some 3 years after his first bite and nearly 2 years after his second (and last, I should hope, or I will need to be put down for being so dumb about him) swipe (not a full-on bite), I have come to realize that management is OK. In fact, it’s preferable. My dog is a cool dog–for me and for my current situation. I trust him completely, but only with me. He’s not so cool outside of his comfort zone.
So what do I do? I keep him cool and in manageable situations. I think owners hear too much about the “Oh, that’s bad” and not enough about “It’s OK if he doesn’t try to meet people.” And many well-intentioned owners continue to put their not-so-bombproof dogs into very tenuous situations because we feel crappy that we have a “bad” dog.
And while I would love to have a bombproof dog for now I have a dog who is funny, goofy, loyal, cuddly, and energetic. I’m embarrassed about him sometimes, especially out on walks when I have to tell people to not come any closer because he bites (and I see their faces), and I feel constant guilt about what he’s done and about my still loving him anyway and not having immediately put him down.
After 3+ years, though, that’ll have to do.
Angel says
I know this post is old, but I feel compelled to reply here, even though maybe no one will read it. I am not a professional. Just a first time dog owner who’s attending a lot of classes with my dog, reading lots of books, and pestering the heck out of my trainer whose become a friend, thankfully.
First, I think the steps you outlined are great. Have a connection with the person first, even a small one. Comparing dogs to humans is great as it helps people to understand for themselves how the dog must feel. Pointing out that dogs are DIFFERENT is also very important. I’ve come across so many people that think that dogs respond the same as people, feel the same as us, and just come into the world knowing what we want from them. And definitely, give them something they can DO about it. Give them ideas, steps to take, books to read, something, anything, lots of things. If you’re just going to point out the behavior with no direction, don’t bother. (Which I would hope most trainers would not do.)
And this is to the last comment by Nancy. Congratulations to you!! I applaud you for loving your dog ANYWAY. For making it work in the best way you can to make you and your dog happy, while keeping others safe. Our dogs only have to be as smart or funny or well-trained or good with other people or playful with other dogs as we want them to be and as they are capable of being. If your dog is dumb as a rock and can’t even shake paws, who cares? If your dog doesn’t like to go to the dog park and play, who cares? If you love him, if he is happy and healthy, if you keep him and other dogs and people safe, it’s fine!!! HE IS YOUR DOG.
My Bear jumps up on me (and others), gets mouthy and plays too rough, chases the cats when they run, grabs anything and everything that he can get his mouth on (except his toys!), tries to climb in the front seat while on car rides, pulls on leash and I’m sure other things I’m missing. And we’re working on it. We’re both still in training here. I’m not 100% happy with the way things are right now. But I love him with all my heart. He’s my boy. And he’s all right by me.
Annie says
I love your blog and recently had the time to go back and read older entries. This one was particularly relevant to me because last week I returned a puppy to its breeder. She was 13 weeks old and so beautiful. And in a home setting with my other dogs (I am not a novice dog owner) she was wonderful, smart, funny, respectful of the older dogs, playful and confident. But take her into the world, whether it was a quiet walk down a country road or a more crowded walk along the rail trail where there were bikes, other dogs and walkers or a visit to a friends home or a crowded agility trial, she was fearful and clingy. And over the 5 weeks she was with me, that fear began to manifest in seriously aggressive behaviors, snarling, snapping and hissing. When she accompanied me to an agility lesson, she was fearful of the instructors dogs (hiding under the car) and the instructor, whom she resisted any interaction with, without some serious food bribes.
After attending an indoor agility trial and trying to get more and more friendly, non-threatening exposure for her, several friends took it upon themselves to advise me that if I wanted to train her for dog agility, I had a major project ahead. It would be years before she could be trusted off leash in public. Her comfort zone was extraordinarily small. My agility instructor called me that night and encouraged me to send her back to the breeder.
And after much thought and consultation with the breeder she went back. I am grateful for the friends that took the initiative to advise me. They were kind and thoughtful about it and very considerate of my feelings. And the breeder to her credit was willing to take her back and refund her purchase price. I am hoping that she can be rehabilitated. If anyone can do it, I think the breeder can, when she gets over marginalizing the temperament issues as an acceptable trait of the pedigree.
Thank you again for a great blog. I love reading about the lambs and the farm.