One of the best talks at APDT’s Cognition Symposium was Monique Udell’s presentation on her research on pointing gestures. I promised before I went that I’d write about new results on this issue, and Monique gave me lots to talk about. To recall the issue: some researchers, Hare and Tomasello originally, found that domestic dogs were able to follow the direction of a pointing arm to find food, while wolves and chimpanzees were not. They concluded that domestic dogs were inherently better at interpreting human gestures than other animals, presumably because the two species had co-evolved for over ten thousand years. If that were so, then it means that dogs contain some permanent change in their genetic complement that makes them able to communicate more effectively with people. Much has been made of this in a wide range of scientific papers, most of which have accepted as fact that dogs are better at ‘reading’ human gestures than even our closest ancestors, chimpanzees, and wolves, who are biologically the same species as dogs.
I’ve always been curious, as I mentioned in an earlier post, because in my experience (and based on your comments, yours too), dogs seem to need to be taught to follow a point. And as was clear from the video, one needs to be careful about discussing “pointing” with the arm. Does the head move as well? The eyes?
Monique Udell, working with Dr. Clive Wynne at U. Florida, did a solid, well-controlled study to tease these issues apart. It was lovely work, with lots of good controls and a thoughtful experimental design. (As a preface, one of the points that she and her advisor, Dr. Wynne, made — and a good one at that — is that the noun “dog” can mean many things. Your pet dog lying at your feet as you read this? A village dog at the dump in Mexico city? A Dingo in Australia?) She tested owned dogs, shelters dogs and hand-reared wolves. She varied whether the subjects were inside or outside, had a fence or barrier between them and the tester, and whether the ‘pointer’ was the owner or an unfamiliar person. She also (YEAH! first time I’ve heard of this and about time!) did NOT have the food actually under one container. Other tests have some food in both, but also have accessible food in the one pointed to. Surely dogs can tell the difference between a little food and a lot of food, not to mention different kinds, how fresh, whether just touched by the tester, etc). The subjects were taught that one container would have food, and then were made to wait while the containers were moved to the side. The tester (standing, some in earlier studies were sitting) pointed to one container or the other (no head turn or eye movements allowed if I remember correctly). If the dog went to the container that had been pointed out, it got a food treat. If it went to the other, it got nothing.
It turns out (I’m summarizing here, her details will be published soon I’m sure) that hand-reared wolves tested outside scored just as high as pet dogs tested inside, scoring about 70% correct. Pet dogs tested outside don’t do much better than chance, whether with familiar people or not, and shelter dogs tested inside scored no better. If you test the dogs who did well with a fence between them and the pointer, they also do no better than chance, and about as well as wolves were shown to do in the past.
She presented lots more work, looking at what aspects of the gestures in all the studies are most effective. Clearly the most effective are a combination of head and eyes turned toward the object, and what they call a “dynamic proximal point” — the arm moves toward the object and stays there, versus a point that is made in one motion, then withdrawn
Thus, Udell and Wynne are not in agreement with Hare et al (also see Riedel 2007) who argue that only domestic dogs are capable of following pointing gestures. Based on their results, they argue that environment and development are the key factors. For example, the wolves that were tested earlier, they argue, were behind barriers, and not necessarily by familiar people. They argue that what is most different, along with the context of testing, is that dogs and wolves have different developmental time frames. The critical period for domestic dogs peaks at 7 weeks, end around week 14. In wolves, in peaks at 3 weeks, and ends at 6 weeks. This gives dogs a much longer time to think of humans as social companions. No matter what the developmental differences, the fact that pet dogs and shelter dogs did no better than random does not support “co-evolution” as a driving force creating permanent changes in the behavior of dogs.
Here’s what I love about all this: This is a great example of how science works. Someone discovers something. Some people consider it fact. Others question, wonder… and then someone else does more research and tries to replicate the results, and comes up with a different outcome. Hummm. Someone altogether different does another study, and another… and eventually, we start teasing apart what we know, and what we don’t know. It’s like an intellectual roller coaster. Science gets a lot wrong at first, but often (not always) ends up correcting itself, like a person wavering over a balance beam.
So what’s the answer to the question about dogs, pointing gestures and genetic predispositions based on co-evolution of two species? The answer is clear: we don’t know yet what’s going on, but we’re starting to ask better questions.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: We actually left the farm last weekend, so that our sitter for New Zealand, who is new, could get in a trial run. (She rocks — She even wrote a diary, from Willie, for us to read when we returned. I feel so lucky to have her — leaving the farm for 3 weeks is hard. It’s way over my comfort zone, so I do all I can to set things up to go smoothly and safely. Thank heavens for great sitters, I couldn’t leave home without them!)
We spent the weekend at a friend’s cabin and hiked in nearby state parks. We did a 5.5 mile hike on Saturday with our packs (mine only half full, still working up to the real thing). Lots of up and down, so it was a good workout. I was happy to get to the end, but except for one uphill grind it felt pretty good. One day of the Milford includes 5 miles of nothing but uphill, so it’s good to practice.
Here’s the pond on Sunday morning behind the cabin. Wish I could include audio of the resident Kingfisher rattling his objections to our intrusion.
A little detail of some late fall leaves on the cabin’s foundation. I love textures, and there’s something about fall that seems to emphasize them . . .
Nelson says
I like that living together creates cross species communication in a “natural” manner, both species observing the other and taking meaning from a look or gesture. I point or look at an object, my dogs figured out that I’m trying to communicate something to them, we work together to understand that communication. My dogs turn around and use the same thing to communicate with me – look from me to an object – to relay that they desire that object. It is mutual communication. It sounds like the obvious, but I’ve never encountered a bird, squirrel, or other non-household animal that would do the same thing to communicate with me, so it is a skill learned through our relationship.
Melanie S says
I was recently at the first of my blocks of practical training of the NDTF (National Dog Trainers Federation) course in Dog Behaviour and Training (in Australia), and one of the lecturers/instructors mentioned that not only is the critical period different in dogs compared with wolves, but it has also been either hypothesised or discovered (I can’t quite remember where she said the information came from) that the critical period for various dog breeds is/may be different. The idea was that some breeds such as Labradors have an extended critical period, whereas some others (I think GSDs may have been the example) have shorter than average critical periods, and that this is one contributor to the differences we see in the reactivity, socialisation etc. of adult dogs of various breeds. Have you heard of this Trisha? I’d be interested to hear your opinion…
emily says
Thanks for your very informative post, as always. I wonder if you might write more at some point to follow up on your note about your sitter. That is, it would be great to hear your thoughts on finding the right pet sitter, or making the choice to board your pet at a daycare, and if there is anything special (I presume there is!) you do to get your sitter, your pets, and yourself ready for the trip. Thanks, again, for your insightful writings!
Thea says
My dog doesn’t understand pointing gestures well. She would rather lick my finger.
I wonder whether following another creature’s gaze is an innate behavior. I can see how it would be adaptive, especially among animals who have the same predators or the same food source.
It seems logical that different breeds of dogs would have different developmental windows, since some breeds take longer than others to settle into adulthood and lifespans vary between breeds. But what defines a critical period, if the length of time is variable? Is it like the window during which baby humans easily learn languages, which slams shut at a certain age, making me struggle with French? Or is it more like the drawn-out adolescence that some American teenagers enjoy through their twenties? I’m inclined to think that the variation between dog breeds’ developmental periods is more like extended adolescence than like our window for language acquisition. Also, if Labradors have longer periods of mental development than German Shepherds, how are the Labradors I know such big silly goofs, compared with super-smart German Shepherd police dogs? (that’s pretty anecdotal, I know.) Perhaps GSDs’ sharp focus has to do with earlier winnowing of neurons as the critical period ends, while Labradors’ playfulness is the result of a longer critical period and less winnowing of unnecessary neural pathways.
Trisha, I love your blog and I’m looking forward to reading your books. After reading through the archives here, I feel like a fool for jerking my dog’s collar to get her to heel. I really like the analogy of science to the person on the balance beam.
Carmen says
I just did a little experiment with pointing with my young dog a few weeks ago. My elderly golden retriever Noah understands what it means when I point to something (usually I’m pointing to food that I dropped while I’m cooking), but it has been so long since he learned that behavior that I couldn’t remember the learning process. I tried it with my young rott Noel to see if she would figure it out initially or if it would be a process to teach her. I put a treat on the floor when she wasn’t looking then pointed to it, keeping my arm extended and also looking at the object. Her first response was to look for something but she wasn’t necessarily looking in the direction of the point. Meanwhile from across the room Noah saw me pointing (note to self: move him to another room during point training another dog) and it’s amazing how fast a 15 year old dog will move for food. My first attempt was foiled due to a lack of planning on my part, but after watching another dog steal the treat that I pointed to, Noel immediately figured out what pointing to the ground means – to look for something in the direction I’m pointing. Since I had Noah’s “help” training Noel, I’m still not sure what the initial outcome would have been.
Pamelia says
I am very impressed with the research, I agree different breeds have different learning curves. I have had many breeds over the yrs and have been impressed with ea dogs eagerness to learn. Our Basenji was very aloof but extremly intelligent, and stubborn.
Our Lab (Scotty-Lab cross, a mini Lab) loved learning new things and had inborn traits such as the ability to know that his sibling was struggling in the current in a small stream and jumped in, swam over and pushed him out of the swift to gentler water, it was amazing.
I am now working with Cavalier King Charles Spaniels and have been amazed at their intellect and desire to please their master even after they have been ill treated as in several rescues I have helped.
I use the hand gestures as described all the time. I use just the gestures alone and just my voice alone
then together . Also, I use my eyes and head to gesture.
I noticed one of my Cavaliers was jumping on the back door to go in the house, she would turn her head and look at the door and lick her lips sometimes.
I realized they use signals all the time with each other and have started cataloging them.
Thanks for all your info, I am anxious to learn more.
Janet Sellers says
I train poodles to be service dogs for the disabled. I’ve trained border collies and bc/heeler mixes, too. I noticed that the poodles take cues so differently that the bc, much more outcome focused. So as the outcome of a point, I tried just the arm/hand/finger point, but I see that the poodles look at the overall picture, think about the outcome for the command/request, and also observe my body language. I relax all over, and my face, when they begin to do what I think I asked. I can call a ball a toy or a book, but the poodle will look at my face/eyes and get what I really want. This is so helpful for a cognitive disability when the right word won’t come out for a command. I can ask without words, and my body asks my service dog all the time… he takes my ptsd cues before I know I have them going. Aside from classic basic obedience and public access, our “together”-ness is how he trained himself to help me. The rest of my trainees (6 poodles) have the same learning style. The bc, nope. They are so headstrong that they prefer to fail on their idea before going along with mine. Needless to say, in a game of fetch, the little toy poodles have learned to stay in the outfield to win the ball and be on the home run.
Chris Waggoner says
Excellent summary~there were many things about the original experiment that bothered me-one was the food in the container/s, which Ms. Udell solved nicely. I heard Brian Hare speak last year at the APDT conference-wish I could have made this one. Interesting stuff!
Bonnie H. says
My dogs usually ‘get it’ when I point to something, especially when accompanied with the word ‘there’. And they’ve apparently learned to point with their noses when they want something;my Lucy knows where the hot dogs are kept and will point her nose at the right-hand fridge door (of a 3-door fridge). Scientific? Of course not. Amusing? Absolutely! Oh, and they’re not pointers; they’re lab/Australian shepherd mix brother and sister.
Lindsay says
My lab mix definitely understands my pointing gestures indoors. But outside when he’s in retrieving mode, he has a hard time focusing on just about anything. I’m trying to teach him to follow my pointing gestures to find objects like his frisbees and tennis balls out in the field we live on. It’s a good challenge for us.
terry pride says
i get a huge kick out of the spontaneous day-to-day communication from [and to] dogs –
one of the reasons i love NILIF specifically with SIT as the coin of the realm is that it creates a simple “Pretty Please?” which most dogs teach themselves in a matter of days: it’s a precise, un-cued SIT often with eyes-on-eyes, adjacent to or underneath the object of the dog’s desire.
i can now spot NILIF-trained dogs in any pet-supply store –
they see a bin of favorite toys or a bulk-bin of rawhides, wag in anticipation, walk over and SIT by it prettily, and look up at their sensei with a smile and bright eyes — U can see the thought-balloon, “Pretty please, may i…?”
i also love the look-at-that intention or inquiry glance, which my horses have used, as well as cats, dogs, etc, looking out the window + back to me [“let’s go…”], at their bowl and back to me, and variations of the same.
i like TWO-WAY communication, not top-down orders to a subordinate.
order is fine, order is good… HIERARCHY? get outta here – this is family. if U’re old-enuf to talk
[and i don’t mean English], U’re old-enuf to have a valid opinon and preferences;
short of actual dangers, i generally say yes.
to fewer boundaries and more negotiation,
– terry pride, APDT-Aus, apdt#1827, CVA, TDF
Frances says
I was very interested to read what you have to say about how poodles learn, Janet. I have been very aware of the differences between my papillon and my toy poodle – both bred for generations as companion dogs, both intelligent, happy, affectionate, sweet natured little dogs, but very, very different in what they learn quickly and easily, and what they struggle with! It seems to me that Sophy, my papillon, puts her greatest efforts into teaching me to understand what she wants (she needs to go outside, or wants to play a particular game) – Poppy the poodle tries to guess what it is I want (sit? down? jump through the hoop?). Neither, it has to be said, are particularly good at following a pointing finger – their eyes tend to be glued to my face instead.
Pam Coblyn says
Having been recently bitten by the agility bug, your pointing communication discussion is of GREAT interest. As I’ve progressed as a handler, my dog and I have settled on our own vocabulary. It consists of pointing gestures and the position and direction of my body parts (hips, shoulders, feet), my speed and where I am in relation to an obstacle.
The pointing gesture was the first thing I learned and it’s a powerful directional tool. My arm pointing down to the floor means something different then my arm raised and pointing. Also, moving it to the left or right, waving it, pulling it closer all mean different things.
Once you and your dog “understand” one another and you’ve established purposeful and consistent movements (not an easy thing to master!) the dog will move around an agility course as directed. I’ve experimented with totally silent handling and also a combination of verbal/visual cues. Since each dog (and handler) is different, the outcome will not always be the same. Some dogs are so visually focused (like my bc) that I can pretty much silently direct him around a course….and save any verbal commands for extreme impact, such as calling him away from an off-course.
Terrific article and thoughtful study of this topic, Trisha!
AnneJ says
This topic made me think of the difference between pointing and blocking that is used in training agility vs. training herding dogs. In agility the handler points with their arm and the dog is taught to take an obstacle with that cue. In herding you hold out your arm, with stick in hand as an extension and the dog goes the opposite direction around the sheep, the arm is a blocking signal. Most, but not all, herding dogs don’t have to be taught the blocking signal- they pick it up the first time. Humans on the other hand, need many repeated reminders of “don’t point” especially if they have done agility training with their dogs first. It can be confusing to the dog if they are holding out both arms, one as a point and one as a block, and tells the dog, “don’t do anything”.
Mary Jane says
I surely communicate to Wolf by pointing. If I throw his ball but he can’t find it, I will look until I find it and then point to it. He happily follows my gesture and picks it up. We also communicate by looking at something. Sometimes, when I want him to go to his crate, I stare at the crate and he follows my eyes and enters the crate. He does the same thing. Sometimes when he wants to go out he looks at his leash. I guess that behavior is similar to a gesture in another comment “pretty please”.
em says
Terry pride,
That’s an interesting point you bring up. ‘Volunteer’ behavior was one of the complicating factors for me when I was trying to figure out how to help my initially strongly non-verbal dane understand me. Watching carefully, I noticed that Otis will consistently respond to no less than half a dozen gestures with a ‘sit’. He’ll sit for formal cues like The one I use, as well as the different ones two or three of his favorite humans at the dog park use, but he’ll also consistently sit for a handful of other gestures (hand holding treat clutched to the breastbone, a move to stand squarely in front of him, a hand in pocket, etc.) And those are just the ones he does consistently. Any time someone has something he wants but hesitates to give it to him, he defaults to ‘sit’ as his ‘guessing’ behavior whenever he feels frustrated, trying to persuade the person to hand over the goods.
This causes some confusion among friends and family. One day, one of our park friends and a frequent cookie donor was surprised and a little frustrated when she asked him verbally to sit and got no response at all. ‘Come on, Otis’ she said, ‘You know this.’
‘Actually,’ I said, ‘he doesn’t.’ I showed her one of the gestures, but I also started really paying attention to the other dogs at the park, and I came to the rather startling conclusion that maybe one dog in ten (and these are dogs all well trained enough for off-leash walking) actually understands the WORD for ‘sit’.
Whether they understand it or not, nearly all recognize the tone that means ‘I’m willing to give something away…’ and the dogs work the crowd of potential treat-dispensers like cold-reading champs…picking up conscious and unconscious cues, catching people’s eyes and volunteering behaviors (one particularly pretty shepherd mix has mastered the art of not only sitting, but cocking her head in that irresistible listening gesture. She has yet to meet a human who was not putty in her paws). These behaviors are charming to see, but the net result is that many people end up confused and sometimes frustrated because they have no idea exactly what their dogs are responding to.
That’s why topics like these are such a treat!
Dena (Izzee's Mom) says
Ah, yes, a common communication problem between dogs and people. “My dog knows the word “down”.” But the dog was actually responding to the slight dip of the handler’s head when she said, “down”. When she remembered to hold her head still, the dog was clueless!
Ed Hargon says
My pharaoh hounds are completely different in their response to pointing. The male is very responsive to gestures and body language, while the female is more responsive to vocal cues and eye contact. Perhaps it’s the difference between male and female, or their age (the female is 9months vs 5yrs for the male,) or perhaps it’s genetic. Either way it’s been a fun road of discovery.
It could also be an element of conditioning…cue>>behavior>>reward. I have found that utilizing body language works well in most situations, but verbal commands seem to ease the other humans in the surrounding area.
With direct regards to the study, it would be interesting to learn whether the more ancient breeds (Saluki, Basenji, Akita, et al) respond differently than the more modern breeds (Labrador, GSD, Doberman et al.) Or working dogs vs sporting dogs, sight hounds vs scent hounds. There are so many variables that can be considered in the administration of the testing.