I was going to write a follow up blog about over marking, but I want to gather a bit more information before I do. I have to say that I’ve found the comments about over marking absolutely fascinating. I’m going to summarize them next week and will give you a report of what I find. I suspect there won’t be any patterns there, given how variable the sex, status and context of markings that have been described, but if that’s true, it’s interesting in itself. (Keep the comments coming to my last post on the 17th, I’ll post my summary next Tuesday.)
While I’m working on that and Willie’s recovery, here’s a laugh for you. This is another video that is just plain funny, and doesn’t involve intimidating a dog. And we all know that laughter is the best medicine. Wish I could watch old comedies with Willie! The video below made me laugh so hard I had tears in my eyes.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: In some ways Willie is recovering well. He is eating some food (although not with much enthusiasm, could be the pain meds, could be pain, hard to say), putting weight on his leg, and the area around the surgery is swollen but not unreasonably so. I was, however, blind-sided by the change in the rehab schedule suggested, which is based on what they found in the surgery. Willie’s shoulder has a torn medial glenohumeral ligament, a torn lateral colateral ligament, a moderately inflamed supraspinatus tendon and a badly inflamed bicepital tendon. It’s a miracle how well he was doing before the surgery. Honestly, I’d say that after his 2 months of leash restriction and 2 more months of exercise restrictions only 1 in 1,000 people could see even the slightest lameness when he walked, trotted or ran.
The surgery, in which they cut out the bicepital tendon and attached the muscle directly to the bone (with a huge screw, I almost fainted when I saw the radiographs) should, we hope, resolve the pain related to that tendon, but it won’t affect anything else. So they recommended two months of complete and total “crate rest” in hopes of healing the other tissues. It’s doubtful now that he’ll ever be 100%, which was my motivation for the surgery, but I made the decision to go ahead because I thought I’d always second guess myself if I didn’t do everything I could. He’s had 3 other sessions of leash restrictions for 2 months or more each , and I want us both to never have to do them again. We may anyway, but at least we tried our hardest.
So for two months (with a small chance of sooner) it’s no movement at all, except for passive PT, unless going outside to potty. THEN we start PT that involves 5 min walks and some active movements of his legs. He won’t be back up to speed for perhaps 6 months, and we won’t know until then how much better he’ll be.
That’s not great news. I was prepared when I took him in on Tuesday that the rehab would be extensive, but nothing this lengthy or confining. But all that has minimal effect on me compared to this: Willie won’t look at me. He refused to acknowledge me when I picked him up at the vet school. He greeted 3 vets and a PT, granted a little bit dopey and drugged, but he still licked faces and said hello. He completely ignored me. It’s continuing still. He won’t cuddle up with me; he sat this morning at the end of the leash, head and body turned away from me and whined while looking longingly up the staircase, waiting for my friend Meg to come down. I’m not making this up, he wants nothing to do with me. It’s blindingly obvious. At first I wondered if my slight anxiety about picking him up, learning his PT passive exercises, getting all the post-surgical instructions down etc, was making him nervous and so he avoided me. Nope. That’s long over. The only hypothesis I can muster, anthropomorphic as it sounds, is that he attributes the pain and movement restrictions to me. As Meg said “Welcome to being a mom.” Of course, so far I’m the one doing all the passive PT (which he doesn’t like), so that’s not helping.
All yesterday I felt hurt (very hurt, Willie and I are best friends, and after all, he is my only dog now). I tried not to be, buckle up and be a grown up Trisha, but still, it was a tad difficult. This morning it continued, and I cycled from, yes, true confessions, a tad hurt to bit irritated. However, at the moment, everything feels so ridiculously and relentlessly difficult, that after crying on Tuesday over the bad news about his shoulder, and crying on Wednesday over the bad news about his rehab, and then feeling miserable about my dog rejecting me, I’ve evolved into just laughing. I laughed at Willie, laughed at an Alpaca at a neighbor’s who had been shorn to look like a Dr. Suess character, and most of all, laughed at myself. I think I’ll be watching those old comedy movies after all.
Here’s Mr. Will and my dear friend Meg Boscov who came to help me and Willie while Jim moved his mom to Madison. Meg, with Liz Maslow, is the co-founder of Muttmatch in Philadelphia, and I honestly don’t know what I would have done without her. What a wonderful friend she is.
I was going to include a photo of Willie’s shaved shoulder (and back and belly and leg…. jeeez they go crazy with those clippers!) but he has razor burn for one thing and scratched himself badly scratching himself with his back leg while at the vet school, so although “grueseome” is a bit strong of a description of the photo, I thought it was better to spare you all, and include some spring beauty instead.
Jenny says
Oh no! I’m so sorry to hear that things are going from bad to worse. Give Willie some time, he’ll remember that you are one of his favorite people soon enough. We’ll be rooting for you both!
Debbie says
awwww, poor Willie! Of course he’s mad at you. My son rejected me when he came to after having his tonsils out when he was five. His first words were, “I want my Auntie!” I was crushed.
My little Lucy hates me for awhile right after I do her ears. She’s a Cocker Spaniel, she gets her ears done every other day.
Willie will come around, so will you. You know how to win him back.
That dog video is the best. Have you seen the other videos that guy has made? He’s a genius.
My best thoughts to all of you. It’s good to have friends, real friends, isn’t it? It’s humbling sometimes.
mungobrick says
Oh, Trisha, I’m so sorry…I can just imagine how awful it feels to be so concerned about him AND have him blaming you for his pain. I’m sure he’ll come around, and I’m so glad you’re able to laugh about it a bit. Two months of complete crate rest for a young active dog – that’s really hard. But it is really just a blip in a long life, and if it gets rid of his pain for good then it will be worth it. I hope he’s talking to you again soon (I know he will be) and that the two months flies by…
Beth says
Oh, goodness, there is no other way to say it but to be blunt: that just sucks.
We had a Springer Spaniel when I was a kid who knew how to hold a grudge. She would give people the cold shoulder. I’m sorry about Willie. Hopefully he’ll get over it soon.
Susan G. says
I can’t even take the puppy dog sad eyes, let alone the cold shoulder! I hope he moves on soon. I’m sorry the road will be so slow. At least you know what to expect, I guess. It has been a long few months for you, no matter how you slice it. Here is to the start of good things and moving back uphill instead. 🙂
Liza Lundell says
What Beth said. Sorry you and Willie are having such a rough time.
Dee says
I’m so sorry poor Willy is worse than you thought… and it is worse for you. What an emotional few weeks it has been for you!!!
Many, many years ago, my husband got transferred 500 miles away from our families when our youngest daughter was not quite 2. After the move, she kept insisting on calling my sister and brother-in-law to tell them that I was a “terwibble mama.” Usually because I served her vegetables. She would insist we couldn’t leave the grocery store because she hadn’t found a “new mama.” So, it comes with the turf – human and canine. All you can do it laugh! That daughter is 20-yrs-old now and thinks I’m pretty cool.
Please tell Willy I commiserate with him. I have 14 screws in my leg because of a nasty fracture. (Of course, my leg is bigger than Willy’s) I just got released from crate rest after 4 1/2 months. I’m learning to walk all over again. I feel for you both! I least I could read, watch TV or surf the internet while I was crated. Maybe Willy will want to watch Animal Planet for hours on end, or episodes of Lassie.
Michy says
Oh I do so love that dog tease video. I can’t imagine NOT smiling or outright laughing every time I watch it.
I am so very sorry for all the issues with Willie, especially the being ignored part. I hope you can figure out ways to entertain him while he’s stuck being a patient.
Nicola says
Trisha,
I’m so sorry for your bad news – it sounds like you and Willie are in for a tough time. I’ve had a kelpie cross stuck in a crate for two months twice now, and like you, I never want to go there again. I had to sedate my girl with ACP because she just wouldn’t stop doing too much when she was in a pen (crate was too small for elizabethan collar). How about getting Willie some Nina Ottosson puzzles to explore while he is crate bound?
It is tough, too, that Willie is giving you the cold shoulder – I hope he comes around soon. Good luck!
Frances says
I hid under the table for three days after having my tonsils out at the age of two – after 50+ years I am not sure how much I was avoiding being taken back to the hospital, and how much I was punishing my mother for (very, very reluctantly) taking me there in the first place! Poor you and poor Willie – as if you didn’t have enough to deal with already. A former boss of mine used to say when I was working as a consultant and bewailing the impossibility of the latest assignment – “If it were easy, they wouldn’t need us!” – I hope there is some comfort in knowing you are have the best possible knowledge and experience to cope with Willie’s tribulations.
Sue says
My heart hurts for you both: Willie, who can’t understand more than what he has experienced, and you, who can. Thank goodness you have the physically easier season ahead for his healing and your own. Keep looking for balm for the soul; beauty and laughter help. (My car is registered with my motto, dating from nursing career, RX LAF)
Loved the video all over again and glad it’s tucked in here where it’s so accessible!
May the days ahead become ever brighter, and may Willie warm up as his pain cools down. You’ll know best how to engage his focus till he can become active.
EssMac says
I know that it is small comfort knowing that you are doing what is right and necessary when your buddy is giving you the “cold shoulder” treatment. Willie will forgive you, trust that he truly adores you as much as you cherish him. The work that you will do with him, both in rehab and in keeping him intellectually challenged over the next months will build on your already wonderful relationship and bring you closer than ever. Trust the relationship that you have built with him. Good thoughts for both of you.
Trish says
I have an 18 mo. old Border Collie who has had a mystery orthopedic injury/intermittent limp for some time. We are now at the stage of total crate rest, which will be followed by a full CT if the problem persists. A full x-ray shows that it MIGHT be fragmented cornonoid process, which would require surgery on both elbows. To make a long story short, it is very hard to keep a border collie crated for weeks on end, no less to imagine the rehab for this surgery. So I have been following Willie’s story pretty avidly to see what I could learn from it. Does anybody have further recommendations for blogs, books, or advice on how to help a dog through this kind of restriction (even crate restriction, for a very active dog)?
trisha says
Trish: I’ll be writing lots more, but one of the things I’m going to work on is scent discrimination. It’s not something I’ve taught before, but I’m going to call in some help and get a program started. There’s just nothing I’d normally do that Willie can do (paw for food, etc etc), so I think that might be our best course of action. I’ll write a blog soon asking for advice from others. Hang in there, we can do it!
Kat says
Having your beloved friend reject your company and act like they can’t stand the sight of you really hurts. I know I’ve gotten this treatment from experts–cats. The good news is they do come around in time.
I truly feel for you and Willie. It won’t be much fun for either of you but I suspect it will be worse for you because you can’t explain to him or help him count down on the calendar or any of the strategies that help when it is a human child. I forsee another booklet coming out of this. As more and more dogs are treated with orthopedic surgery there’s a real need for information about keeping them quiet but not bored out of their minds.
Best wishes for the speedy passage of time and a remarkable recovery.
trisha says
Thanks Kat, and everyone… I have to admit it was a tough couple of days. But good news: First I finally was able to shake it off, and now, even better, I am no longer person-non-grata. I have no idea why, but Willie has decided I’m part of the family again. Whew.
Susan Mann says
So glad Willie has forgiven you! I’m a nurse, and one of the things we often do with kids is make sure we, not the parents, are the “bad guys” as far as any painful treatments, and sometimes parents even prefer not to be in the room so that they are even associated with it in any way.
And of course, with kids, stickers and popsicles go a long way towards reconciliation afterwards, at least for most minor stuff. Hopefully, you’re following up his passive pt with some kind of treat, food or otherwise.
One of the things I love best about my dogs is their ability to live in the moment- but that really sucks when it comes time for surgery, chemo, rehab, etc, which are all a function of “endure something now for the hope of a better tomorrow.”
Best wishes for a full and speedy recovery!
Beth says
Trisha, I’ve just been thinking that it’s probably a good thing that adding a new puppy did not work out at that time, since having an adolescent to work with now (with all that’s going on) would probably be difficult.
Of course in the long run if Willie’s injuries mean he’ll be more of a pet, you may need another BC to work the sheep.
But in the short run…. well, you know what they say: Good thing, bad thing, who can say? What seemed like a bad thing at the time (the pups not working out) may have been a blessing in disguise.
Andreja says
When I got my dog I was amazed that when I took him to the vet he would shake out of fear and be in obvious discomfort, and yet when we came out he didn’t seem to like me any less than before. I mean, he didn’t know I was putting him through that ordeal for his own good, so how come he didn’t come to the same conclusion as if I hit him or screamed at him for those 15 minutes – that I was not to be trusted? The last time we were there a wound had to be cleaned and stitched up, all without anastethic. I think it really is a miracle when a dog comes out of the vet’s office after an unpleasant visit and he still trusts us.
Trisha, I’m very happy to hear that Willie has accepted you again. I wish him full recovery!
D says
Sorry, I must say, I HATE that video. (not a word I use lightly, either) Someone sent me the link before you posted it, and my response is that dog oughta bite the guy. I can’t stand anyone who teases a dog for any reason…even when it’s “all for laughs” in a video. (actually that brings to mind questions about people who “pretend” to throw a stick for a dog but hide it, etc. …I think teasing in ANY context ends up with distrust, whether it involves humans or dogs, don’t you?)
But VERY glad to hear that Willie is no longer blaming you for his ordeal. Ahhh, if only we could tell them when these things are truly in their best interest for the long run…but dogs do live for the moment, don’t they?
em says
I am so relieved that Willie is no longer avoiding you. It breaks my heart to think too hard about the confusion that dogs needing medical treatment must feel, when the most trusted people in their lives seem to be the source of frustration and pain. I admire your courage and good sense in choosing to see the lighter side of a very difficult situation.
I went through a similar thing, early on, when we adopted Otis. He needed a really nasty-tasting oral medication to treat a moderate case of demodex (brought on by a combination of youth and malnutrition). He hated it, and increasingly dreaded it, balking at even passing through the front door at medication time, struggling to stay away from me, giving me every appeasement gesture he could come up with and ultimately developing a deep-seated fear of praise and treats as a result (our vet recommended lavish praise and treats to help the medicine go down, as it were. Unfortunately, he had no positive experience with praise and rewards, so it quickly came to mean the tone of voice and gestures someone used when they wanted to do something painful or unpleasant to him).
This very destructive cycle was finally broken the day I made up my mind not to feel sorry for him anymore. Not to apologize (even mentally). Not to try to soothe or cajole or make it better, and not to offer him a treat immediately afterwards. I had to be strong, and if that meant that Otis would learn that I could be mean sometimes, so be it. Instead of wheedling and babying, I matter-of-factly marched him through the routine, gave him the medicine, and immediately backed off, let him go shake it off and pull himself together. When he returned to me, THEN I praised and treated and cuddled.
It was like night and day. He stopped with the balking, the shaking, the avoidance. He’d trot off to the living room for twenty seconds, try his darnedest to spit out his medication, then turn right back to come mooching around for the same treat he turned and fled from two days before.
Turned out, he could handle the medicine, what he couldn’t handle was the confusion caused by being praised and punished in the same breath, especially combined with the stress of being pushed to accept reinforcement when he wasn’t ready. Once I stopped bombarding him with conflicting messages and let him set the pace, he was finally able to build a truly trusting relationship, confident that I was not trying to trick him. Before Otis, it never occurred to me how important emotional honesty can be to a dog, particularly a stressed dog. The experience also taught me how important it is not to pollute positive reinforcements by too-close proximity to unpleasantness.
It sounds like you handled Willie’s lapse in confidence exactly right. As someone who had to learn the hard way, I will join the chorus and say that I would love to see another pamphlet written to help owners (and vets) cope with the special needs of dogs undergoing medical treatment. Best wishes for a speedy and full recovery for Willie, and a happy and peaceful summer for you and your family.
trisha says
To em: Wonderful comment, em, as usual. You’ve captured something critically important that is often lost in the “positive versus dominance” training debate. Your phrase “emotional honesty” perfectly sums up what dogs desperately need from us, and how confusing and stressful angst-ridden conflations of praise, treats and (unintended but unavoidable) punishment can be. There is, after all, a reason that nurses stride into your room with a “matter-of-fact” attitude. I had one once who couldn’t stop apologizing and within a minute I wanted to scream at her to just get it over with and stop whining about it.
I remember working with a new dog who was afraid to go up the stairs. We had been together for over two months, she and I had established a great relationship with lots of positive reinforcements, but nothing was good enough to lure her up the stairs. I began shaping it, click-treat for sniffing the stair, click-treat for raising a paw, click-treat for putting her paw on the top of the first stair. We did this for about 3 days, and in a pique of impatience, I finally said “Misty, this is foolish, we have better things to do” and just walked up the stairs with her attached to the leash. (I suspect those were not my exact words, this is the family-rated version.) I am aware that some would be appalled, and see this as a failure of my training abilities. I saw it as a way of managing my time. Misty and I went up and down the stairs two times, me just making her follow by virtue of the leash and collar, and the third time she was running up and down herself like it was a circus trick. Problem solved in 3 minutes. I never would have done that if I didn’t know her better, if we didn’t already have a relationship established, but you get the idea.
Otis: you’re a lucky boy.
trisha says
And to D: Sorry to bring that video back if you dislike it so much! I assumed that the words had absolutely nothing to do with the context of taping. I imagined that the video was shot, and THEN afterward the words were dubed in. Anyone else?
Leslie says
Once again I have to recommend raw green tripe! Willie would love it, no more appetite problem, and it’s so good for dogs. I get mine at Nutzy Mutz in Madison. A great reward for a dog who’s gone through a lot.
As for avoidance, didn’t you write once that dogs ignore their owners after they’ve been away on vacation because they feel they must have done something wrong for their people to have left them, and are trying to appease by being extremely submissive? Perhaps it was another behaviorist, but is it possible that’s what Willie is doing?
Debbie says
D, the video was dubbed. It’s a youtube member that takes video of animals and puts words to the video. Go back and enjoy the video.
Here’s what he does: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6_nZ_LDIHM
His cat videos are pure genius.
Sharon C. says
Glad to see that Willie finally worked things out for himself. The hardest part of being a caretaker/ parent/ guardian is waiting for those we are caring for to get to that place we know they need to be, emotionally and psychologically. It’s so hard to be patient.
Robin Tinay Sallie has some neat blogs. She listed her plans to manage a long-term crate-bound dog in one post. I’m sure that you’ve already thought of a lot of these ideas, but it’s neat to see them all listed in one place. BTW, scent discrimination training sounds like a great idea – it will keep his brain busy. In addition to the standard scent discrimination work, maybe you could modify some of the nose work training to meet his limitations (it uses anise, birch, and clove).
I hope it’s appropriate to list Robin’s link here –
http://foundations4lifetraining.blogspot.com/2010/03/some-one-recently-asked-me-to-pot-what.html
Best wishes for a smooth, and seemingly speedy recovery!
Bonnie H. says
hope time flies by for you and Willie. And yes, most nurses do the ‘matter of fact’ thing to assure patients that they know what they are doing, and to help alleviate fear and anxiety (I was taught in nursing school to NEVER let a patient know you hadn’t done ____ (whatever it is you were going to do) before–talk about fear and anxiety!).
I’m with you on the video thing, I think it was filmed first, then dubbed. It seems more like the dog was anticipating something rather than stressed (like my dogs look when I ask if they want a cookie, and the ‘yawn’ is almost their ‘hurry up’).
Wishing Willie lots of good wishes and hopes for a good recovery.
Kat says
Em, your comments brought back some wise words I was given when my children were tiny. I was advised to leave the bleeding and pain to the patient and just get on with the treatment, that that was the best help I could be. Skinned knees and the like never amounted to much at my house because the attitude was always yes, it hurts now let’s clean it up and put some antibiotic ointment and a bandaid on it; the approach was very matter of fact. That attitude carried over into handling Ranger as well. When we needed to give him some nasty tasting medicine the first time he took it fine the next he tried to avoid me. I pinned him in the corner and administered the meds the third night he stood himself in the corner and while making it clear that he didn’t really want to take this stuff obediently took his meds. Fortunately there were only two more doses after that and for both those it was the same as the third night.
D, the video is dubbed. Try watching it with no sound and you’ll realize that the video is actually just a dog listening to his person talk and responding. I get lots of those same expressions just conversing with Ranger about our day including the turned back when he’s suggesting that I should stop talking and come do something with him.
Debbie says
Here’s the original video, the pup’s name is Clark Griswold. It’s almost as cute as Andrew’s version.
Mary says
So sorry to hear the post surgery exercise restrictions. It’s bad enough for a “normal” dog, but doubly so for a dog who has to have exercise to remain sane. I’d cry for more than 2 days if my BC had those restrictions!
Interesting to read the comments about emotional honesty. My dog has some fear issues (slippery floors) and was truly phobic about an agility obstacle (which we worked through), so knowing that he has that capacity to become phobic, I’m reluctant to try the “no nonsense” method with him. Any thoughts?
trisha says
Mary: I’d NOT try the “Just Do It” method with your dog, especially for slippery floors. I knew Misty really well by the time I said “Oh, let’s just go up the stairs!” and she wasn’t a particularly fearful dog in any way. Slippery floors are usually best handled with increasingly narrow strips of carpet or carpet runners. It also helps to teach them to relax their paws (that’s harder!)… when they’re afraid of slippery floors they flex their toes and end up walking on their nails, and that usually doesn’t work out so well.
Cindy M says
Trisha, sorry for the less-and-more-than-hoped-for outcome from surgery and the prognosis for the next 8 weeks. Especially sorry for the cold shoulder from Willie. Hang in there. Try not to take it too personally. Your honesty in posting is admirable beyond words. Perhaps Willie is just trying to sort out his relationship to YOU, now that it has changed. You were his work and play buddy. You were a cue for some very specific joys. The hospital staff are cues for something different. He’s perplexed. He’s chemically impaired. His parts don’t work like they did. He knows THAT much. And now he has to figure out how YOU fit into that picture. He WILL improve. 100%? 95% Whatever it is, the two of you will sort it out; he will show you “what works,” and you will see it and make it happen. And somebody else can keep track of the numbers.
Janice says
I am interested by the interpretation that many had that Willie was, in some way “blaming” you (“holding a grudge,” “giving you the cold shoulder”) for what had happened to him. Is that really a fair interpretation, or just another instance of us projecting negative human-style emotions on to an animal who may be feeling some other emotion entirely? For example, people often jump to assign “guilt” to a dog that is actually acting fearful in the face of human anger. Or deciding that a cat that pees somewhere other than the cat box is being “vindictive” or “sending a message,” when actually the cat is likely anxious and urinating as a way of identifying the space the cat is trying to mark as its own, (Primates do use urination as a weapon, as people who have worked with captive monkeys may tell you–but this isn’t a cat thing). So are we projecting human interpretations when we assume a dog is blaming us when perhaps a more simple explanation might do?
Now don’t get me wrong, I am well convinced by both scientific evidence and personal observation that animals are capable of experiencing FEAR, RAGE, CARE, SEEKING (I am using Dr. Jaak Panksepp’s naming convention here), to name a few, emotions. And I have no trouble recognizing that an animal can have an association with a person when something unexpected and negative happens to them with that person present. (Like the cat who became afraid of its owner after it followed the owner to the fridge and got doused by icy punch from the punch bowl that the owner accidentally dislodged from the top of the fridge). But to think that a dog will “blame” a person or hold a grudge for a set circumstances (surgery, pain, confinement, PT) and show them the cold shoulder for this….I don’t know…. Would any other explanations fit the circumstances? Is it possible that you were feeling so worried and dismayed and he was then mirroring your fear and sorrow or going into a quiet submissive state as a way of dealing with the anxiety you are expressing about his medical condition (i.e.,making himself a small target in the face of a fearful stimuli) or fearful about the PT? Were you looking at him with a more discerning eye as you are trying to evaluate his condition (I have known dogs that are fine about being looked at, until someone, usually a vet, focuses their attention to a specific thing and actually LOOKS at them and in an instant, the dog goes from being happy to fearful)?
So can we say that Willie was blaming you for his troubles before ruling out that perhaps he was just reacting to what was going on (dare I say it?) on the other end of the leash? (there is no offense intended here–I’m just trying to consider other explanations here…… )
Heidi Meinzer says
I do love that video! So glad you could have a laugh while you go through all of this with poor Willie. I think your lightened mood helped him come around more. Laughing is good! I’ve always thought our dogs could read us better than we could ever read them — if only they could write books for us! Hang in there!
Ellen Pepin says
I’m so sorry to hear about all the movement restrictions for Willy. I can only imagine trying to keep a Border Collie in his crate all day. When my collie hurt her leg jumping for a squirrel, we couldn’t allow her to do any activity without being on a leash. That was hard enough, but keeping Willie in his crate, oh my.
I am wishing all the best for you and Willie. Maybe after all the rest and PT, he will be better. I am very glad that he has decided that you are his family and now loves you again.
Amy W. says
Oh, I thought this video was cute. Not once did I think this dog was being tortured.
I am so sorry to hear about Willie’s shoulder and lengthy recovery. I can only imgine how heartbreaking the surgeon’s news must have been. All I can say is…keep on keepin’ on.
em says
Thank you so much, Trisha, for your kind words. I have always felt like the lucky one to have found Otis. He truly is my heart dog.
Kat, your story about your kids reminds me of a technique that my brother and sister-in-law used with their little ones. When their toddlers took one of the many inevitable minor tumbles that new walkers do, they’d immediately smile and proclaim, “Safe!”, as if the child had just successfully slid into first base. It’s genius- not just because it reassures the toddler, but because it really helps the ADULTS think of the kids’ gravity-induced learning experiences as an athletic adventure rather than a risk to be sheltered from.
Kyra Collins says
Our 4 year old rattie Pico was just diagnosed with an uncommon autoimmune disorder – eosinophilic myositis. It took weeks to get a diagnosis and he was in a lot of pain all that time and finally reached the point where he stopped eating period. Not pork chops cut up fine, not scrambled eggs cooked in butter, not the evil forbidden canned dog food – nada. I finally started force spoon feeding Pico, much as I did a sick Dorset ram years ago that the vet had given up on (and who survived and sired many lambs). If you could get shmushed up food in, Pico would swallow. Of course, when they made the diagnosis, we realized that it had been pure agony for him to even open his mouth for weeks.
Point of this long story is that Pico, who sleeps with me and is a total lover and normally a remarkably cooperative guy, just hated me. He would try to sneak into my partner’s bed in the evening, he would look very pointedly away from me and flinch if I touched him. He was Mr Friendly tail waggler at the vet’s and with the techs, me NO! So I think your friend is right – welcome to being a mum. Mums are always the bad guys – the ones who have to back angry 9 year olds into a corner to get some antibiotic into them, the ones who say:No, you cannot get a bra in 4th grade, No, you cannot sleep over with your boyfriend when you are 14. Etc etc. You know. Pico is on steroids now and he loves me again. The power of drugs. I HATE the drugs he is on, but he is Mr Happy Pico again.
Beth says
I agree that the “Just do this” approach is not good for slippery floors. The dog is likely to slip, thus reinforcing his fears.
I used a combination of “let’s do this” and counter-conditioning when a very young Jack developed a fear of brooms and mops (not sure if one fell near him or if we over-projected the “this is MY broom” posture when he used to chase them as a puppy). After trying to bribe him near it with treats, I gave up and put a leash on him and marched him past it a bunch of time, giving lavish rewards after he passed it.
But he’s not a dog who is in any way prone to phobias. He’s an otherwise confident, outgoing, steady dog who had one isolated fear.
Now when I sweep he hovers near me, hoping for treats. 🙂 So I was perhaps a bit too successful, but “excuse me” is a nice command to teach a dog if you want to impress people. For some reason putting a command in terms of a typical human interaction makes the dog seem very clever to an observer! If I said “over” and got the same effect, no one would notice much.
I agree with the others that I can’t imagine two months of crate rest. The calmer of my two dogs was ready to pop her buttons after three days of pen-rest (spay for a five-year-old). I’d take her out to potty and she’d hit the end of the leash and pull, and this is one of the politest leash walkers you will ever meet (which is why it’s obvious I didn’t leash-train her; I’m a terrible trainer of leash manners).
liz says
In the vein of the very clever “emotional honesty” thought- I’m usually a wreck with big veterinary decisions when there’s a lot of lee way in determining treatment. From this perspective, I think that any residual doubt over the best course of treatment (and the ensuing stress) changes how our dogs view us… sigh, another thing to try to set aside for the sake of consistent demeanor and best possible care.
When we were teenagers, my smarty pants younger brother told me to “learn to make decisions and not regret.” (Ha, Russ, I’m still working on it. Easier said than done!!)
Patricia Bee says
It is a natural human reaction to equate Willie’s changed behavior towards you as being a result of his blaming you for his current condition. but one of the first things I learned from you while listening to your radio show all those years is that it is a mistake to assume from our animals what would be normal human reactions. I had a neighbor some years back who used to beat the crap out of his rottie, no doubt causing the animal immense pain, but the thing that made me crazy about how unfair this was is that the animal truly loved her master despite the pain he caused her.
Oh! And now I am just reading that things are better between you two. Yay! See what a good teacher you have been?
And I must thank you for the video. I am a big fan of the guy who does these
greatdaneservicedog says
oh I am so profoundly sorry for your hurts…my guys between them have had 6 surgeries in 3 years, and are dying inch by inch from chronic Ehrlichiosis. I know how hard it is to see them when they’re miserable. I’ve hand fed, homecooked, bought barf and poo clean up at 2 am, the works. If disabled me can do it, you can too kiddo, so long as you just put your head down and take one day at a time. Don’t think about 6 mo, just today. You’ll make it!
parlance says
I’m so sorry to hear you have a long haul ahead of you, of restrictions that are so strict. I’d like to say, though, that the time WILL pass. We had ages with Penny not able to do much, and when we started I thought we could never get through it. But now we are eight months down the track and feeling much more positive.
It might sound trite to say this, but just take each day at a time, and try to do things together – for instance, just be together while you are watching a tv show, or give Willie a nice soft massage a couple of times a day. Maybe feed him by hand, so you have together time while he is eating.
Good luck.
I loved the funny video, so much so that I phoned my friend to tell her about the site – I couldn’t even wait for her to read an email.
Debra says
I am so sorry to read about the extent of Willie’s injuries and prognosis for future. When Jelly had her TPLO surgery and required 8 weeks strict confinement, it was very difficult. With her being so high energy, I resorted to sedation. She slept away most of those 8 weeks. Between sleepy times, I spent a lot of time on the floor giving belly rubs. Her skin was also torn up by the razor. The vet provided something called “Care Cream” with aloe to apply twice daily. Thankfully, she did not react as Willie has and blame me. I would have been a puddle of tears–even more so than when I removed the splint and wrappings and saw the grusome incision.
His reaction is so interesting. I think the great thing about dogs is their ability to forgive. Best of the best wishes to you in this tough time.
Debra
Lucia says
Haha 🙂 the video is very funny, the last part is very very hilarious 🙂 stilll laughing here. Thank you 🙂
First of all I hope these two months will pass quickly and more good news will come.
Then it is good to know Will accepted you back. It is a bad to feel “rejected” by a very special friend.
I’ve experienced a similar situation with my cat Zorba at least once when I was forced to leave him at the vet’s for more than 10 days for a complicated treatment he was undergoing. At the vet, while in the cage he looked reactive, he interacted with the vet and her assistant but once at home he completely ignored me (when i read the post it reminded me of a very similar situation). I was surprised I felt i was exaggerating, it could not be real – he couldn’t have been “upset” with me, that was nonsense! But even my father and my mother noticed he was deliberately ignoring me, not looking at me, staying away. He would not react when called as if I were not there.
I don’t like to anthropomorphize animals either, although he had a specific behavior which involved not looking at me and staying away from me. While looking at his expression I wondered if he might have been shocked… but he could clearly recognize home or I wondered if he kept associating me to his departure from home. All was fine after one day. Well, I know this does not really seem a scientific approach, but honestly i was not able to infer something else. I don
Jennifer Hamilton says
So sorry to hear things were worse then anticipated for you and Willie. It will be hard, but of course you will get through it. Scent work is an excellent tool to use an amazing large part of their brain. When I worked my crate confined dog on scents, she would start panting as if she had been physically exercising her whole body. If you haven’t considered it already, I found using an x-pen tightly wrapped around a firm pad to be better than a crate. That way you have easier access from the top and sides for brain games. This only works if you have a dog that won’t jump up or out, of course.
Also, if you’re going to anthropomorphize…I have a more positive interpretation of Willie’s behavior. Since dogs and babies seem to think if they hide their face/eyes, they have totally hidden themselves…maybe Willie didn’t want you to see him in such a weakened state. Maybe he was “embarrassed” to show you how vulnerable he was and was hiding from you in the only way he could, you being his leader and all. I’m not saying this is the case, but I suspect it is no less valid an interpretation than the “he thinks you’re a meanie” version…so why not pick the more positive anthropomorphism…I would!
Barb says
So sorry to hear about Will. May the best outcome be coming your way.
AnneJ says
Trisha, your story of Misty and the stairs was almost the same as mine of Tessa and the stairs. She did the upstairs just fine, and coming down them, but the basement stairs she was scared to go down, not even for the best treats or to follow the other dogs. For a long time I ignored it, since she didn’t need to be in the basement, but finally decided she should learn not to fear them because she didn’t even want to near them. I picked her up and carried her down, and as I stepped down she freaked out and whipped her head back (40 lb dog), whacking me in the face hard enough to bring tears, but I’m proud to say I kept calm and did not shriek or curse.
I set her down on the next to last step and she jumped to the bottom. I let her look around, gave her some treats and ever after that she has gone up and down those stairs with no problem. I guess sometimes they just have to see that something isn’t going to kill them. Probably I should have used a leash to avoid being whacked in the head.
Patrice says
That video is obviously dubbed. The person whose knees we see just sat there and someone made motions or said things to the dog to get the dog to move his mouth and body. Then all that dialog was added in later. Nothing cruel about it, as far as I can see. Just video editing.
I’m glad to hear that Willie is paying attention to you again. I have a dog that has a chronic disease, and our weekly sessions are uncomfortable for him. He turns his head away, which lets me know he doesn’t like it, but after these 2.5 years of doing these sessions, he just lets me do them with only a little initial resistance. Then for a few minutes afterwards, he goes and hangs out by himself for a bit to recoup. Eventually, he’ll come back out and ask for a scratch, and all is well until the next week.
D says
Sorry – have been really busy and didn’t get to check back. I appreciate your response (as well as others) to my post. I knew, of course, that the video was dubbed (never for a moment did I think it was the dog’s voice on tape!). And yes, I think the person who created that is brilliant – I have seen some of his other videos and they’re terrific. Lest I come across as a person with no sense of humor (which I don’t think is the case), let me just say that I just don’t like teasing. No, I was not teased as a child, and no, I’m not a psychiatrist. But I took enough undergrad psych courses to learn that teasing usually has some element of truth behind it…and it is akin to bullying. And I simply do not believe in teasing dogs.
I’m a novice handler who participates in multiple dog sports, and I once worked with one of this country’s top trainers, who said to the group “Don’t ever lie to your dog, don’t ever tease your dog.”
Also – I didn’t think anyone was being cruel to the dog! And I do recognize it was all intended as a joke….but that is not my point.
em says
I think the point about anthropomorphism is very well taken. It IS incredibly difficult, if not impossible, to know for sure what is going through an animal’s mind and there are probably several ways to ‘read’ Willie’s reaction.
But I don’t know whether attributing the ability to conceptualize ‘blame’ to a dog really constitutes anthropomorphism. I don’t subscribe to theories about dogs plotting revenge or sitting around dwelling upon the wrongs that have been heaped upon them, but I have seen many, many examples of dogs who form associations between certain people, dogs, or objects and unpleasant experiences. Some dogs link cause and effect, rightly or wrongly, much more readily than others. Sandy, our new addition, is a shepherd/rottie mix and a very clever dog, but is blissfully disinclined to leap to conclusions about anything. Training takes more repetitions, but I don’t have to keep such a tight grip on my own feelings when I’m out with her.
Otis, on the other hand, is strongly environmentally focused, but also strongly sensitive to my moods and reactions. The combination means that if I feel upset or nervous or angry, Otis will behave abnormally, actively scanning the environment for anything, ANYTHING suspicious or out of place to focus his own frustration and anxiety on. This may not be ‘blame’ exactly, because Otis may not actually think that the strange dog/billowing trash bag/person acting strangely is causing my feelings, and by extension his feelings, but then again, he may. He certainly acts as if he does.
I guess my impression may be colored, however, (if you’ll excuse a friend of a friend story) by something one of my park friends told me. I had been complaining because I’d had a bit of a family crisis that week and Otis had been a knucklehead for days, hyperreactive to everything. At that moment, he was standing in a field, declining to play, scanning the horizon for potential threats. In response, my friend told me a truly horrific story about the first great dane she’d ever known. He belonged to a neighbor and had always been a friendly and much-enjoyed pal. She saw him nearly every day for more than a year, played with him, walked him, fed him, the works. One day, though, her neighbor suffered a late-term miscarriage. My friend, coming from next door, was the first one to arrive to a horrible scene. Blood everywhere, pain and fear, sirens wailing, EMTs pounding on the door… the dog was left in a crate as his owner was carried away, returning hours later, grieving and in pain.
The next day, my friend went over to her neighbor’s house, and the dog who had known and trusted and liked her for over a year went full-on Cujo. Snarling, barking, snapping, foaming, crashing against the door. This reaction was limited to her specifically, and whatever was going on with him, he never got over it, and she was never able to go near the dog again.
I don’t know for sure what goes on in a dog’s head, and fortunately I’ve seen many, many, many examples of dogs who don’t make these types of associations, and those who forgive and forget offenses and mistakes, over and over, but stories like that make it hard for me to believe that whatever does go on in a dog’s mind when they make connections between people and unpleasant events cannot be something akin to ‘blame’.
Bonnie H. says
As to attributing human emotions to dogs, I have a funny story about the first dog my husband and I had. I don’t even remember now what my husband had said or done that day, but it was something involving the dog (no, he did not hurt her in any way). Anyway, when we went to bed that night, Jessie jumped up on the bed as usual, but didn’t come up near us for the usual cuddling. She simply sat on the foot of the bed with her back to my husband. He kept calling to her, but she wouldn’t even look at him. She would look at me when I said her name, but wouldn’t move. I told him she was probably mad at him (for whatever it was he did) and that he needed to apologize to her. He said ‘I am NOT apologizing to a dog!’. She actually stuck her nose up in the air at that point, and I told him “Apologize to her!”. Husband sighed, and said “Jessie, I’m sorry.” The dog stood up and ran up to him, with lots of doggy kisses!
No idea what was going thru her head, but it was rather funny to see the change in behavior after he apologized.
Sara says
Glad Willie’s turned around for you!
I found another video I thought you would like… (the music is what makes it so funny – oh, anthropomorphism.)
Kat says
I think using the term blame is too much anthropomorphism but I do know from experience that cats will associate a person with a painful event and never forget the association. My late lamented Roguespierre cat AKA Crazed Killer Attack Cat hated all veterinarians until we moved here. I was thrilled to discover that he actually liked his new vet and was a cooperative model patient; that is until she noticed a small spot of gingivitis developing and the bit of associated tartar on the adjoining tooth. She was scraping the tartar off with her fingernail and accidentally brushed against the sore place on his gums. For the remaining 13 years of his life he was never a relaxed and cooperative patient with her although her associate vets he would behave for. I always found it interesting that while the vet’s office was never a favorite place he objected to her a lot more than he did to the place. He disliked her to the point that she needed to don falconer’s gloves just to handle him. I always felt bad because he had actually liked her–occasionally even purring during exams. The other vets in the practice he would tolerate but I never felt like he actually liked them.
Janet says
I’m really sorry to hear that so much was wrong with Willie and that he (and you) will have such a long recovery. I understand how you feel about Willie not interacting with you. Give him a little time and lots of pampering and as he starts to heal and the pain lessens, he’ll get back to being your Willie again. My Papillon, Katie, who is 13, hates going to the vet and to the chiropractor. She used to just not be very happy about it but it gets a little worse every time she goes. Now it’s a struggle to hold her still to have anything done. Who knew it would take 4 people to get blood from a 4 pound dog? After I take her, she will not come by me, kiss me, or even make eye contact. Sometimes she won’t even eat for a day or two! I feel SO bad but she needs to see to vet periodically for her own good. I’ve tried different vets and it makes no difference!
JJ says
I can’t figure out why some people think that dogs are not capable of “blame”. While it may not be an emotion that dogs have in every circumstance we credit it to them, surely blame is present some times in dogs.
According to my dictionary, “blame” means: “1. To hold responsible. 2. To find fault with; censure.”
We know that dogs can form associations. To me, the concept of forming associations is pretty much the same concept as “holding responsible”. Whether it is fair or not to hold something or someone responsible, surely dogs do it all the time. Also, when dogs make a negative association, they change their behavior accordingly. Sometimes that change in behavior is about protecting themselves based on what they fear. However, in my mind, sometimes that change in behavior is “censuring” the object/person responsible for ____ (whatever it is that upset them).
In my opinion, being able to blame is every bit as much a dog characteristic as human – and thus is very appropriate anthropomorphizing. (As opposed to the inappropriate kind.) Dogs may not “blame” in as many situations as novice dog owners attribute, but Willie’s example seems pretty clear to me.
I’m so glad to hear that things have gotten better with Willie. Just reading about it happening is heart-wrenching.
Gayle Ballinger says
Patricia,
Loved meeting you last September here in Seattle, you are an amazing and inspiring lady! I’ll keep Willie in my prayers for a full and fast recover. 2 months crate rest? Enough to drive a Border CRAZY!!!!
Gayle
trisha says
Actually it’s more like 4 months of crate ‘rest.’ It’s just that after 2 months of NOTHING but passive exercise he can begin to do things like a 5 min leash walk (then back in the crate). It’ll be October or November before he can ever be off leash again. (And he was on leash restriction for 2 solid months in Feb and March, then restricted April and the first half of May, but allowed a little freedom. So it’ll be from early Feb to late Oct or Nov before he can have his life back. Eeeeps, time to repeat ‘one day at a time!’
But he and I are great friends again, and are indeed going one day at a time. I’m going to write a blog in the future about this blame/mad at issue, I think it’s fascinating. I originally thought his behavior toward me (or lack of!) related to him sensing that I was anxious about the surgery, his rehab etc, but his behavior didn’t support that as a hypothesis. He had little or no time to discern my internal affect, he entered a room w/ 6 people and greeted everyone but me. He continued to refuse to even look at me the next day when I was completely comfortable. Still, I’m not willing to reject that as a hypothesis, but it seems less likely than some other explanation…
Meanwhile, I’m collating all the over marking comments from you all…. preview: everyone over marks every one, but some more than others. 🙂
Beth says
What you are going thru right now is one of the hardest things. I was a wreck for a good 2 weeks when my Lab had TPLO surgery 2 years ago. She is a very active, always on the go sort of dog who doesn’t rest unless she’s been run ragged. So to go from that to complete crate rest and then 9 weeks later a meniscectomy followed by another 6+ weeks of crate rest was so challenging for her and us. But it taught me how strong I can be when needed for my kid! And even though the arthritis is starting to set in, she can still be a crazy Lab and no matter what, is still happy-go-lucky. But 2 years ago there was no way I would have believed she’d end up as great as she has. There’s a great Yahoo Group called Ortho Dogs that helped me thru the worst of it. Knowing there are others in the same position really helps, and you may get some ideas for your bud.
trisha says
Thanks Beth, much appreciated. This IS hard, there’s just now way around it. Sounds, Beth and several others, like you’ve been through it in spades. Willie has had three other sessions of 2 months on leash-only, but never total ‘crate rest’ for 2 months followed by extreme restrictions for the next 2 or 3. I’m going to check out Ortho dogs, great idea, thanks for the suggestion. There are some others who have commented that they might be in the same situation soon, I hope that helps them as well. And thanks to all of you for your encouragement. Never has “one day at a time” meant more to me. A friend said this morning “Don’t worry, it’ll be November before you know it,” and I answered, hands over my ears “La la la la la.” I can’t handle thinking about October or November, just today, maybe tomorrow, but no further than that! But we’re doing okay, as long as I stay at one day at a time. It would help if I didn’t have so much work to do, when I’m home I want to bring him out of the crate so at least we can lie down together and he can get his belly rubbed. And rubbed. And rubbed…. Willie is being fantastically wonderful, I’m just having a struggle getting enough work done . . . (whoops, better stop here and get back to writing the next blog!)
Lucia says
November… 🙁
I hope November will arrive soon for you and Willie.
The idea of thinking about very near future helps me a lot too. I’ve been suffering from insomnia for nearly 4 years now, and when days are really hard I just consider the word “today” and when I am a bit more confident the word “tomorrow”. It helps me, it limits overthinking and frustration.
Once again thanks for the very intersting topic and comments. Now I have to admit I am very fascinated by the stories I have read about certain dogs’ ability to associate events (and i would dare to say maybe a cats ability too). 🙂
An ability that might become a dangerous sort of dis-ability in several contexts…
Thank you again.
Sally says
If you do join orthodogs you will probably come across my recent posts about my young BC who has just been doing the rounds of the ortho specialist to be told she probably has biceps tendonitis and is currently just entering into week 2 of a 3 week preliminary run on full crate rest. She had xrays and ultrasound scans just over a week and a half ago and because her reactions are a little inconsistent and only mild we are opting for a wait and see approach. Although the lameness has been on-going on an intermittent basis since mid December 2010.
As you say you can but take it one day at a time and thats become my motto lately as well.
Thinking of you and Willie (and the other lame doggies especially BCs who are on crate rest that were mentioned in the comments). Crate resting a BC is like the end of the world.
EmilyS says
the dog in that video has a name: “Clark Griswold”
http://paulbradleysmith.com/2011/05/26/who-am-i-clark-griswold-the-dog-ultimate-dog-tease/
The Learning Vet says
I’m behind on my blog reading, but have been thinking a lot about you and Willie. Just wanted to send my heart-felt wishes for recovery and better days soon.
Speaking of videos, I guess this is an older one and maybe you’ve already seen it, but it’s still pretty fun:
http://youtu.be/clUEQU7WADw
Reidun and the Spanish furkids says
Just want to say that I was really sad to read about Willie – we send lots of positive healing energy from the Pyrenees to Willie, and strength to you. And we wish Willie a very speedy recovery and pacience for his long rehab!
dogs4ever says
I feel your pain and wanted to tell you that Willie has not forgotten his best friend (YOU). He’s more focused right now with trying to heal his body and get back to the things the way they were. Hang in there!!