I’m reading a fascinating book, one that I recommend with five stars for anyone interested in the brain and behavior. It’s titled The Brain That Changes Itself, and is written, beautifully, by Norman Doidge, M.D. The book’s primary focus is on the plasticity of the brain, and how, in contrast to what was formerly believed, the brain is continually changing in response to the environment. He relates stories of stroke victims, for example, who are able to regain the use of limbs rendered nonfunctional because the motor area of the brain that controls them was destroyed. Previously it was believed that the brain can not regenerate and once an area is damaged there is very little that can be done to restore functionality. However, that turns out to be a complete misunderstanding of how the brain actually works.
It appears that the pathways between the neurons of the brain are strongly affected by experience. Indeed, there is a kind of ‘competition’ within the brain, and as soon as one behavior becomes less common, another behavior begins to take over the neuronal connections. If for example, you stop using your right arm, the area of the brain devoted to moving your left arm becomes substantially larger. If you tape together two of your fingers, so that they can only move in concert, your brain loses the ability to move them separately.
What does this have to do with dog training? Well, besides being a brain geek, I was struck by the similarities between a new therapy for stroke victims and what we know about what’s effective in dog training. Think about this example from the therapy in which someone has lost the use of their right hand. In this new therapeutic paradigm, the patient is physically prevented from using their “good,” left hand. (Either it’s affixed to their body, or it’s covered in a mitt.) That prevents the brain from rewiring itself so that it only powers the left hand. The patient is then immersed in a therapy that uses shaping (a ha!) to stimulate the brain to power the previously useless hand. First they are rewarded for any movement, (right hand moves an inch), then simple movements, then increasingly complex ones. After just three weeks, patients often regain a tremendous amount of function–even ones who haven’t been able to use a limb for years.
The therapy is believed to be successful at rewiring the brain because of three factors:
RELEVANCE–The training is most effective if it relates to everyday life (patients may practice circular movements by washing windows, for example),
SHAPING–patients are reinforced for each small advance toward a goal, breaking each movement down into tiny step-by-step increments. Sound familiar?!
IMMERSION–patients are immersed in therapy. Standard physical therapy was one hour a day, several times a week. In contrast, this therapy uses what they call “massed practice,” in which patients work for 3 to 6 hours a day. Think of how fast people learn a foreign language when they move to the country in which it is spoken, instead of practicing an hour a day…
The reference to shaping, of course, immediately got me thinking about dog training. Most of us are already using shaping (but isn’t it fun to understand a bit more about why it is so successful?), and I suspect that we often unconsciously create a ‘mini-immersion’ schedule of training. I don’t know about you, but I tend to practice a new trick, for example, relatively often, perhaps 2 to 3 times a day. Once we’ve made progress, my ‘schedule’ (a seemingly overblown description of the random occurrence of training trials) tends to lighten up. But, after having read this section of the book, I am going to increase the amount of early training that I do.
Cautionary note: We always need to be careful not to overdo things in dog training, especially by making each session too long. I’ve seen far too many dogs end up regressing because they’ve been asked to do the same thing over and over, even when they are doing it perfectly. This is often a disaster with super smart dogs, who appear to assume that they must be doing it wrong, and end up changing their responses.
However, why not 5 short sessions a day? Why not 7? (Yeah, okay…. we all know a good answer to that! More on the reality of life in a minute…) I’m going to try something with Will for the next 2 weeks. I’ve spent so much of our time on working sheep, tricks and behavior around other dogs that I’ve never taught him a tight, classy heel. He’s had a sloppy, workable one for years, all that I really needed, but it just feels like time to polish it up. I’m going to try for 5 sessions a day for the next week. I’m the first to say it’s going to be tough, even if they only last for 2-3 minutes. There’s all my work, the farm, yoga to keep my body semi-functioning, cooking healthy food, etc etc, but darn it, I’m going to try. I ‘ll keep you posted.
This relates to my next post, which I’ll write sometime later this week. One of you asked a great question: How much time do we spend with our dogs? Doing what? The underlying question here is, I think, one that many of us ask ourselves all the time: “Am I doing enough with my dog?” There’s no question that our enhanced relationship with our dogs brings up new questions, and, sigh, new ways of feeling guilty. I’ll address that soon, but meanwhile, I’d better finish so that I can get the rest of this morning’s work done and run home and start session #1 for the day…
Meanwhile, back on the farm: Will is still on exercise restriction, he MAY have had a minor injury to a ligament in his back leg (he does not have typical symptoms, and doesn’t limp at all, but he slipped on the ice a week ago and for a few days “hopped” on 3 legs for 1-2 strides after getting up.) Given his dodgy left shoulder, I’m not taking any chances. I told Jim this morning that a Willie with 2 bum legs would be, uh… I won’t even go there. He’s going in for a chiropractic visit soon too, just to be extra careful. Meanwhile, Will, of course, is oblivious to all of this, and most probably has no idea why Tall Two Leg Female won’t throw a toy for him anymore. And no work on the sheep? Argh!
The inevitable March combination of mud and ice is with us, and would be intolerable if it wasn’t for the fact that it is a harbinger of color and light and life reborn. Right now it’s ugly as sin outside: gray and foggy, icy and muddy, bland and dull. You have to look for beauty a lot harder now, but it’s always there if you look hard enough. The sun came out right after I wrote that, so here is a quick shot of the flock in the orchard pasture up the hill behind the house. I suspect they are loving the appearance of grass, little as there may be, and lying in the sun in the balmy weather. (It’s over 40!) It’s not a great picture, but it does give you an idea of what it looks like this time of year.
And right below that scene, the woods by the house are still deep in snow, being on the north side of a hill:
emily says
If possible, it would be helpful to see some videos of Will’s “heel” progressing from something of the “sloppier” variety to more of the “tight classy” kind. I am interested to see the subtle or not-so-subtle adjustments (yours and his) that occur throughout that progression. Thanks!
Menopausal Entrepreneur says
The examples used for immersion – stroke victims, learning the language in a foreign country – also imply motivation. The stroke victim must want to recover, the visitor needs to be able to communicate in a strange country. Just immersing our dogs in more training may not produce the desired results unless it’s motivating and fun too!
Trisha says
Absolutely agree about motivation–sometimes I just assume that everyone knows the value of positive reinforcement and high value rewards. Always good to be reminded!
Cynthia says
I’m curious what type of positive reinforcement they use for stroke victims. Is it literal, like an M&M, or more what we consider secondary, like verbal praise?
I use checking this blog as reinforcement for pages of homework read, btw.
Catherine says
Cynthia, so do I! Although chocolate also works as reinforcement, especially when there are no new postings 😉
Wendy W says
OK – so this comment should have followed the discussion of hugging, but see if minute 3:00 of the clip at http://channel.nationalgeographic.com/channel/videos/feeds/cv-seo/Animals–Nature/Unlikely-Friends/An-Orangutan-Bonds-with-a-Hound-Dog-3.html doesn’t make you/us giggle a time or two as we work on that classy heel!
Trisha says
Love the orangutan and hound. Seen the dog and elephant video?
And I doubt that the patients need any reinforcement beyond the progress they are making. What could be more reinforcing than gaining the use of your arm back? Or the ability to speak?
And yeah Cynthia & Catherine for studying! Good girls! Sending cyber chocolate…
Kat says
Cool! Yet again I’m doing things well totally by accident. My life is so chaotic that when I’m trying to train Ranger I tend to do it for short bursts many times a day–or to put it another way I steal a minute here or two minutes there or maybe a five minute session somewhere else–he might get 20 minutes of training in the course of the day but five or six sessions. Now I wonder whether he seems to learn quickly because he’s so smart or because of how we train. Fascinating stuff.
Melanie S says
And how about the part (at the 1min, 22sec countdown) when Surya the orangutan puts a piece of food in his own mouth and then grabs Rossco the hound dog’s muzzle, prises Rossco’s mouth open and shoves the food from his own mouth to Rossco’s. Fascinating and hilarious!
“The Brain That Changes Itself” has been on my gotta-read-it list for months, haven’t got to it yet ’cause it’s waiting in line behind a lot of other worthy books I’ve already accumulated! Great to hear snippets from the book and your follow-on thoughts Trisha. And I smiled at your reference to youself, from Will’s perspective, as Tall Two Leg Female.
Bettina says
That would be excellent news for us owners of reactive dogs, if the neuronal connections are taken over by new experiences and behaviours, would it not? Because it would mean that a learned alternative behaviour as a reaction to a stimulus could “take over” the connections, and after sufficient repetitions, that alternative behaviour would be more likely to occur in the future (say, eye contact to handler as opposed to lunging at scary stimulus).
Providing I can get enough repetitions done to have this effect, that is…
Trisha says
To Bettina (and all): Yes yes, you’ve got it exactly right. And it is great news, and it also helps to explain why teaching an incompatible behavior can be so successful. And my sympathy re the number of repetitions, that is always the challenge with reactive dogs, isn’t. Take heart though, I didn’t use ‘immersion’ with Willie for many months when we were working on his immediate ‘bark/lunge/growl/be hysterical’ reaction to just the sight of another dog, but I still got it turned around. I’d work really hard for a few weeks, then slack off (and prevent any unmanaged interactions, that part is critical), then pick it up again when I had time.
Liz F. says
Are the factors important to stimulating preexisting connections just as important to forging completely new pathways? Are relearning and learning one and the same?
Is learning a new behavior to be considered as challenging as relearning an old behavior because both are the underdogs in the brain “competition” (in that the brain is most likely to take the path of least resistance in either case)?
North says
I’ve got a smart, highly trainable 7-month-old puppy (lab/border collie cross) who’s dead on for about 2/3 of what we’re doing in her obedience class (she has ‘go to your place,’ stay, and distance commands down pat, but heel is much harder for her) but I always feel like I should be repeating those behaviors since that’s what the rest of the class is doing. What you said about keeping training sessions and repetitions short once the dog gets the trick made me reconsider that: it’s during the repetitions of things she already knows that she starts looking frustrated and distracted and loses interest in me, my treats, and my toys (though this also tends to happen 35 minutes into an hour class, so it might just be the time). Maybe I’ll start working her on heel or other harder behaviors during that period, or mixing up what I ask her to do, and see if that helps keep her attention.
Deanna in OR says
Oh I love technology 🙂 I just clicked on your link to The Brain That Changes Itself, asked for the Kindle edition, clicked to order and voila! I have it. That’s why the silly thing is SO darn reinforcing for this human! Now to find time to read it…
In the Beg Obed. class I teach, I really try to emphasize to the pet owners who just want a dog they can live with–“Please, please, just train for 30 seconds when you are feeding them anyway! Short tiny sessions 4 or 5 times a day! Wait at every door–takes an extra 5 seconds! So much more effective than a half hour on Sunday trying to catch up before class Monday night!”
I have a Collie who gets easily bored by too much repetition, so we have always done frequent very short sessions, whether it is Rally or Agility or learning a new trick. That keeps it a game and a valuable chance to play with me (and get dinner or treats).
Ute Hamann says
Talking of motivation let me write down one most important practical advice for all who have to deal with stroke patients.
Never ever ask him to move the paralysed hand “just an inch”! This is what is usually practised and is the most depression thing for all paralised people trying hard to find back into being able to move. Ask them to move a muscle that is just at the border of where normal movenments still are possible!!!! In case of a paralysed arm concentrate on the shoulder progressing to the arm, not on the finger tips! Progress from the centre to the distal parts and you can observe the progression. Many therapists begin with the distal part and chances are that the demotivation is so bigh that the paralised simply gives up.
The biggest thing is being able to move the finger tip for an inch – this is nothing one can expect as a the beginning. The nerve connections to the tip have to develop beginning from the still ennervated intact parts to the paralysed ones – not vice versa.
That’ s my experience, having cared for my mother who had 5 strokes, 3 times one whole year paralysed and flat in the bed and still each time beginning to walk again, last time she achieved it when she was 92. And I tell you it was so much easier in spite of her age – we simply knew where to begin. Same body conditions, had they been in the first stroke, she never ever would have been able to get back her abilities.
Hearing the idea “just move your finger an inch” reminds me on all those pet dog owners who come in a dog school having in mind: my dog has to learn anything else except this one simple task, he simply has to come when called…
Ute
Melanie S says
Don’t you just love synchronicity… I just put on an Animal Planet DVD “Breed All About It – Utility Dogs” and am watching the episode on Rottweilers. A woman who writes stories with a Rottweiler character featuring also takes her Rottweiler in to hospitals as a therapy dog. She related a story in which she and her dog visited a little wheelchair-bound boy who was paralysed. While her dog was at the boy’s side near his hand the boy picked up his fingers and petted the dog’s nose. When she related this to the nurse a little later she was told that he couldn’t have done that, that hand is paralysed. But the woman saw the hand pat the dog’s nose… she tells the story on the DVD as an example of just one of the ways the therapy dogs have a powerful positive influence on patients.
I just love that the dog provided both motivation and reward for the child. The dog’s presence prompted the child to act, somehow the message made it to his hand, and then the act of stroking the dog is itself the positive reinforcement (all that lovely oxytocin etc.). How wonderful.
And BTW Trisha, when I watched (last week) the working dog DVD from the same series I saw you in the Border Collie episode with your sheep and your canine crew. Having read some of your blog entries to do with your lovely Lassie I actually got a bit of a lump in my throat seeing her on screen and watching her playing “let’s all carry the stick” with your other fellas. I also, though, had a chuckle when you were commenting about how BCs who doesn’t get the exercise and stimulation they need will
Pam Coblyn says
Some thoughts on training, session duration and repetition:
I think we’ve all found that short sessions are most successful. IMHO, both the dog and handler get bored and there is a time threshold for enthusiasm, success and a relaxed, happy team.
For North:
I can see a huge difference in my dog’s heeling style compared to the first 5 minutes of class and then at the end of the hour long class. By then, the enthusiasm has waned for both of us. Not even a fistful of cheese can bring back my dog back mentally. We are both bored by too much training time. At this point, I am certain that Fenway detects my faked “excited/delighted Good Boy!” at the end of the hour
rheather says
I’ve been working the feral pony in short bursts at feed time to teach her that people aren’t that scary and being touched/touching people is okay. I was doing it in the ‘nothing in life is free’ frame of mind but it is training in little bits-and it’s working pretty darn good. And that applies to what I call ‘walk-by noms’. If you come up to me-or even better let me approach you- you get cookies!
Now I need to work on MY brain…..
Rosana Hart says
Regarding Deanna’s comment about getting the Kindle edition, I don’t have a Kindle but just discovered that if you have a Windows computer you can download a free Kindle emulator. Works fine. Also agree that Kindle books themselves are a great example of positive reinforcement / instant gratification!
My sister is a linguist who has researched strokes and created software to help them communicate. I’m going to send her this link, as here our interests are overlapping
Trisha says
To Pam and all about training schedules: I couldn’t agree more that many classes ask people and dogs to practice any one exercise far too long. I think it’s critical to mix it up a lot, and never to spend too much time on one exercise. Even when classes do a great job of varying the activities, I think they are too long for some dogs (and some people?) I always encouraged people to leave class any time they wanted to and take their dog outside for some free time in the fenced yard. And oh, you are so right about that ‘forced enthusiasm.’ Who could be better than a dog or child at reading right through it!
To Ute about stroke victims. Thank you so much for sharing your expertise with stroke victims. I used the phrase “move the finger just an inch” far too loosely, and can see exactly what you mean when you say that that movement is not in any way a ‘first step.’ I hope you can get a copy of Doidge’s book, I think you’ll love it.
And to Liz F’s good question, are learning and re-learning the same processes? My simplistic answer is yes and no. Learning requires new connections being made between neurons, and the more those pathways are used, the deeper they become. Unlearning occurs when the pathways become unused, and ‘fill in’ like a ditch that begins to fill up with soil when water stops running through it. That makes it easier for new pathways to be ‘carved’ between different sets of neurons. That’s my “oh boy am I not a neurobiologist” answer, but it’s an analogy I’ve heard many neurobiologists make, so it couldn’t be too far off!
FYI, just for fun, I thought I’d mention that one of the scientists highlighted in The Brain That Changes Itself, Ramachandran, will be in Madison tonight and tomorrow. I might not be able to get back into town tonight (though will try my hardest), but I just got the opportunity to be in a small group of people having lunch with him tomorrow. Oh happy dance!
JJ says
I too am fascinated by how the brain works. Our local newspaper recently published an article about how the University of Oregon has produced a lay-persons video called “Changing Brains”:
http://www.registerguard.com/csp/cms/sites/web/news/cityregion/24501504-41/brains-brain-video-neville-lab.csp
You can watch the video on-line or buy it for $10.
The video is geared toward helping parents understand how their kids develop:
“At a crisp 75 minutes, the video features 12 segments that run five to 10 minutes each and offer a solid overview of how the brain develops particular skills from language to vision to attention….its focus is to reinforce and give a fact-based explanation of something many parents know intuitively: that nearly every aspect of a child
JJ says
This is a followup to my previous post.
I’ve had a chance to watch a good chunk of the video. (It’s free on-line and available now.) I thought it is very well done. I also appreciated how they make a point of making sure that every statement is “evidence based”. However, the information is pretty basic. Depending on your current knowledge, this video may not hold much interest for you.
What I tried doing while watching it was to think about how the information I was learning might apply to dogs and puppy development. That made the video much more interesting to me.
Angel says
I had typed out a long comment, but it got deleted before I could submit it. Stupid computer decided to do an update and then automatically reboot. Grr!!
So hopefully I will remember what I typed and re-do it later. But for now, here’s a question that is a little off topic but still related.
What can I do when my dog is suddenly uninterested in training?! Bear is very food motivated, has done well with training, has amazing focus when he wants to, has been in several classes and done well. But recently, when I try to initiate a training session at home, he could care less. He will do one command, then walk away! And we need to practice some tricks, because we are supposed to help a friend with a presentation at the mall on Saturday!! I am nervous, but more than that, I am concerned about Bear and what is going on in his mind. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!
Angel says
Okay, let me see if I can remember what I wrote before that was lost.
The point about relevance being a factor in the success of the therapy brings to mind how relevance affects the success of training a dog. Isn’t teaching “sit” one of the easiest things to train a dog to do on command? Could this be because it is a natural behavior for the dog, one they do all the time on their own? And isn’t it easier to teach a dog certain things that are relevant to the breed? Easier to teach, say a labrador retriever, to retrieve a given object than it would be to teach retrieve to a Siberian Husky?
As for training sessions, somewhere I heard or read to break training up in to two 15 minute sessions a day. I don’t remember where I saw the 15 minutes, but that is what Bear and I were doing. And I think it is too long for him. (Could this be part of the reason why he is not interested in training right now?) When we were doing 15 minutes at a time, he would definitely get bored, distracted, frustrated, or confused about what I wanted by the end. Or some combination of those. Now, we didn’t work on the same behavior the entire 15 minutes. We’d work on one behavior, doing 10 repetitions (sometimes a few more to end on a success), I’d take 30 seconds to jot some notes, then we’d move on to a different behavior. But I think 10 reps are too much for him. He’d do the first 5 or 6 perfect, then he’d start to just look at me, or offer totally different behaviors. Which I didn’t attribute to the time being too long until just recently. Sigh. Always something new to learn, and it always seems as though I am the one doing the learning! Laughs. Somehow everything always seems to be the trainers “fault”, doesn’t it?
And I am thinking that the upcoming post about how much training we do with our dogs, how much time we spend with our dogs and what we do with them was inspired by my comment. I can’t wait to read what everyone has to say!!
Time to go bring my barking dog inside to eat his dinner. Love the warmer weather (it was 60 today!), but the squirrels and birds that are out enjoying it are driving Bear crazy!
Trisha says
Am on my way out to hear Ramachandran, but quickly, Angel: There could be many reasons by Bear is turning away from training, but I wonder if it has something to do with an increasing sense of stress on your part about the demo coming up? Or, is there an exercise he just doesn’t like or that confuses him? Will struggles horribly if he gets confused, can barely stand it… You might try: NO training for a day if you can, next day use the best treats possible (chicken?), and only do 1 or 2 reps. Stop when he’s still drooling (and did better) and say “oh, too bad, we can’t do any more today…” Don’t know if that will help, but something is definitely going on….
Lolly says
There is much concentration on training sessions, but what happens between them is just as important. There is a great deal of learning that takes place between sessions. I’ve read this in Karen Prior’s writings, and observed it in working with my own dog.
One of the most interesting, and exciting things to me in class with my guide dog, was when she would make a mistake in the morning, and after being corrected and shown the right way to do the task, she corrected it in the afternoon trip. There must be connections being made in the brain between training sessions that help the dog absorb what it is being taught.
Ed says
Ute – great comments on baby steps and not setting up for failure – 8/9s of an inch isn’t
an inch so that would be pretty discouraging.
With my reactive dog – and this was basically my mode before I had a problem dog – I really want the motivation to be aligned with the behavior (which always includes impulse control) and I’m hoping that this is rewarding in itself. Naturally, I use markers and rewards to get the ball rolling because are inter-species language skills rely on such helpers.
I have found, when a long hike isn’t possible, that having someone ask her to do work (fetch, go to her place, over, whatever) builds a lot of trust – possibly because a person who asks her to do something she knows how to do and is pleased when she does it is “reliable.”
She’s doing quite well, but with today’s dog-bait shortage, we can only get so far. I do believe that between maturity (she was less than a year when she was picked up) the confidence from learning things in general, and the work we’ve done, she’s no longer anything like the dog she was a couple years ago. She had a bit of a reaction – and really not much of one – to a creepy guy recently. Frankly, I wasn’t displeased. It was not a freak-out, just a warning in the form of going very still (Dirty Harry mode, I call it) and a low growl. She was a little skittish about the next men we met (maybe 20 minutes later), but overall she kept her head and calmed down quickly. (And yes, with a dog like this, I check to see if her heart is still rabbiting and keep a close watch on her eyes and attitude to see how she’s doing. If there was something like a blood-sugar pen to test for stress hormones, I used it!)
It’s hard to tease out which of things I’ve done had the most influence on the way she behaves now – and how much is just a natural result of being in an orderly home instead of loose on the streets.
What I’d really like to do is find another technique or strategy to add to the mix.
Angel says
Bear’s lack of interest in training has been going on since before I even knew the demo was happening. And I don’t think it’s due to one particular exercise that is giving him trouble. We aren’t really working on anything totally new. Everything we’ve been doing (mostly tricks as we just finished up with a tricks and games class) is something that he is familiar with. For example, one is ‘take a bow’, which he will do with me luring his head down between his legs. I don’t have to have a treat in my hand at this point, so I’m not sure if you still call that luring. We haven’t made it to the point where he will do it on verbal or visual cue yet. I’m having trouble with that. I think the cue ‘bow’ sounds too similar to ‘down’ for him. Mostly because when I say ‘bow’ he goes into a ‘down’, laughs! And I’m still trying to think of a visual cue for him. I was going to use my left foot behind my right, like I was going to curty? But Bear doesn’t seem to be looking at my feet.
So. He will do one or two ‘take a bows’, then he just walks away. Which if he needs shorter sessions and less reps, that is fine. I was going to start doing that. But I don’t think it’s a good thing that HE is deciding when the session ends! Maybe I will try our next session with him on leash, so I can step on the leash and prevent him from walking away. Then when he tries to walk away, I can keep him near me, ask for a few commands, even ‘sit’ or ‘down’, and then I can end the session myself.
His behavior has been changing a bit in other areas, too. I’m trying to think of what all has been going on with him. He is about 1 year and 2 months old. (That’s an estimate because we aren’t sure. We found him abandoned outside a friend’s house, and the vet thought he was about 5 weeks.) I’m just racking my brain now, because I’m starting to worry about him, probably for no good reason. I’ll just be extra observant and watch his behavior.
Oh! Yesterday, I had decided to skip training altogether. I was just going to give him a break and see how he did. I’d rather just wing it on Saturday than to put too much pressure on him. I’m sure the kids will get a laugh out of it if he completely ignores me, laughs! Well, later in the evening, I was trying to play with him. He is really NOT toy motivated at all, so it is difficult to play. Unless you want to wrestle with him, he loves wrestling but gets too rough and mouthy. So I was trying to get him to play ball with me. He could care less but suddenly was super focused on me. So I asked for a few commands. Simple ones he knows really well, like sit, down, high five, and shake. He was great and stayed right in front of me, looking at me the whole time. I asked for 2 ‘bows’ and ended the “session”. So maybe the other times I’ve tried training sessions, he was just not “in the mood”? Maybe he was too wound up, had too much energy to sit still and focus like that?
And add to all of this that I’ve also been training him to accept a Halti, which he does not like at all. He may be thinking, “Oh, that crazy woman might pull that *&%^ thing out of her pocket and try to stick it on my face. I’d better stay away from her!”
Oh to know what our dogs are thinking! It sure would make things a lot simpler sometimes, smile!!
Lyssa says
Speaking of neural changes over time…I think “learning to learn” is an outward manifestation of this. I see it frequently when I’m working with adult shelter dogs who had little positive input or interaction with their former owners. Once they begin to understand the reward based system is very consistent with jackpots you can literally watch these dogs mentally bloom. The learning curve begins to improve, they pick behaviors up faster and they truly enjoy learning.
In terms of obedience classes, I agree that the hour long classes ore often much too long for many dogs, at least in the beginning. Most of the shelter dogs I take through basically “hit the wall” mentally and start to check out regardless of what games are played or how much variety there is. I try to give them mental time outs and often we use the rest of the class just learning how to be in the presence of other dogs. As they go through more classes, “hitting the wall” takes longer and longer and I think this is also a variation of “learning to learn.”
As a side note, I’ve seen this “learning to learn” curve in a variety of species: horses, rats, mice, house rabbits, dogs & cows : )
Kerry L. says
I took WAlter to 16 weeks of obedience classes and he was just not his usual happy self, he wasn’t visibly upset, but I could see it in his eyes and ears that he wasn’t having fun. Our training sessions take place at the dog park, when we’re there alone, and up and down the hallways at my workplace. 5 minutes a few times a week is all we get, but I’ve chosen to concentrate on ‘come, wait, stay, sit, down, watch me, walk nice, ah-ah, scoot and go (meaning get out of my way). As long as those behaviors are consistent I’m happy. Anything else is gravy.
Pike says
Bear sounds like Ronja. She walks out (mentally, if she is on leash) of training sessions, too. It didn’t matter what classes (obedience, agility, tracking) we went to, after a few happy sessions, she was done with them all. No more classes for us – they are wayyyyyyy too long and repetitive.
My only training is now thrown in at moments that are important to her: Before opening doors, before unclipping the leash on walks, etc….
kate says
Hope you share the highlights of meeting with Ramachandran! I bought the book! I just need to finish “Born to be Good” first….a little emotional self control training for myself 🙂
I LOVE sneaking in that 10 sec – 2 min escape from reality. Not many friends/people I know ever seem to have enough time in a day.
I’ve thrown the “guilt” emotion out into outer space to explode into smithereens. I just don’t have enough time these days to waste it on feeling guilty! I rather feel happy and have fun or be content and enjoy the quiet times.
I just wrote a blog post on a game I learned 8yrs ago taking a puppy class, “Silly sit” is the game.
It really shaped our training sessions. Teaching me and them to work enthusiastically for short increments. I have my own version “Switching gears game” , Dr. Ian Dunbar’s “Jazz’m up and settle” same M.O. for all basically.
It is so much fun and has so many great side effects. One being that they learn to rev up and chill and keep their eyes peeled on you as they NEVER know when that silly game is going to start.
It taught me that keeping things short doesn’t only mean we seem to make greater strides in learning new things, but also gives me time to be efficient in what I wish to accomplish.
I LOVE seeing my guys all rev’d up and having fun in the name of training. It makes me happy, I giggle and the whole world’s problems are lifted from my shoulders.
Also very helpful to recognize in my best buddy the body language that we’re both having fun and know when it’s time to quit before we both burn out.
I hope Willy is doing better. Poor guy. If it’s not one thing it’s another 🙁
cheers,
kate
Cynthia says
I’ve always wondered about positive reinforcement with people, though. If people were great at using down-the-road anticipated reinforcement, there wouldn’t be issues with motivation or willpower, etc. For example, in Cautious Canine you advise us to give ourselves chocolate, a beer (well, that was my idea 🙂 ), or whatever in the short term to keep us motivated for a very reinforcing goal: a happy and well-adjusted goal. Similarly, people trying to regain use of their hand may in theory be motivated to go through the physical therapy, but may have a hard time using that distant goal to motivate short-term behavior. Hence maybe a place for short-term, on-the-spot reinforcement. Praise? A break? Food? TV?
When I taught preschool I always idly wondered whether I could get a kid to, say, put on their outdoor clothing if I literally tossed an M&M in their mouth for each step completed. I’m sure I could, but there’s obviously a lot of reasons why I didn’t. People don’t just learn through operant conditioning and classical conditioning, there a lot of other learning mechanisms at work, some of which appear to be unique to our species (open to debate?).
Alexandra says
Angel, I think what you would want to do with Bear is stop the session while he is still engaged and wanting to do more. If you leash him, even though he can’t physically leave, he can still mentally check out on you. Stopping while they are still having fun builds interest. They leave thinking, “Aww… can’t we please do more??” instead of “wow, am I ever bored.”
Paula says
My first Great Dane trained *me* to short sessions. After growing up with Border Collies and then having some lab crosses, all of whom liked to work, a Great Dane was a whole new experience. She would practice any cue 3 times and no more than 3 times. If I asked for a fourth, she would simply shut down. If necessary, she would sit politely and quietly, but turn her back on me to drive home her message. Multiple times during a day was fine, but short sessions were a must. I’ve had two more Danes since and they both had similar low levels of tolerance for repetition. So we do lots of little training.
Jennifer Hamilton says
Just ordered the book, can’t wait to read it!
Isabelle and I are pet partners through Delta Society and we do AAT with children with cerebral palsy and adult stroke victims. I find the children do benefit from extrinsic rewards for achieving desired behaviors. My students get something small (candy) just for coming to the session, a movie ticket for showing they completed their physical therapy homework for the week and, for every task they complete with their weak side during our AAT session, they get 5 points towards sports equipment of their choice (i.e. Basketball, football etc). We didn’t start making significant progress until I added the higher value rewards like the movie tickets and sports equipment.
With the adult stroke victims, intrinsic rewards seem all that is needed. I will say, however, that many of the stroke victims seem depressed. Even though they will do the tasks assigned, many seem to think it pointless after enduring years of therapy with little improvement. Perhaps I will bring some chocolate to my next session with them!
kate says
We did PSA for a brain injury client and in speaking to her afterwards, she said doing simple things like using your opposite hand to brush your teeth helps or trying a new activity. Having a bucket list of things you’d like to try and working through it. Most important is to be conscious of falling into a routine.
I have to say in my professional life, that training my dogs with these methods, mixing up rewards, short “training” sessions …has indeed spilled over into my everyday relationships with peers, family and friends.
To top it off I find myself using this reward system without realizing it half the time. It’s second nature now.
My review this year pegged me as an enthusiastic teacher, respectful in negotiations, graceful and have a good sense of humour. My job description is so no where in the vein of the teaching profession, and I’m NOT at all graceful in any way shape or form..if there’s a banana peel…I’m the one to go flying on it wearing a mini skirt 😛
I think mixing up rewards and I LIVE by the interval training being absent minded and easily distracted by nature forgetting to give the treat in my pocket…is key too…sometimes I am so excited that I forget about the reward and in my excitement, my dogs start racing around and having fun…so that’s the reward.
With people, a touch, look, a smile, humour, using coloured font “way to go” emails, I show up with lattes unexpectedly after a tough negotiation, or mail chocolate with an invoice, or wine, and I have a drawer full of movie tickets I also distribute sometimes for a reason, sometimes just because. There’s so many options to reward people with that don’t cost a dime.
I think the saying “variety is the spice of life” sure sums it all up. My reward is the relationships I’ve built along the way.
kate
Carol B says
I know this post is coming late in the conversation but the implication that the technique of limiting the use of the
Trisha says
To Carol B: Gosh, I wasn’t suggesting that learning something new (in any species) is exactly the same as a patient working on movement in a paralyzed arm, but I am suggesting brain plasticity is still relevant to both topics. Learning itself is a version of brain plasticity, in that new connections are formed between neurons, and in that larger and larger areas of the brain are taken over by the new behavior (which, if movement is part of the behavior, involves motor neurons). That is why pianists have larger areas of their motor cortex devoted to the movement of their fingers, for example. The biggest difference between typical learning and that of a stroke patient, that Carol points out, is what’s called the ‘afferent’ nervous system, that sends information from the brain that tells it “your arm is moving!” That information is available to all of us and our dogs under normal circumstances, and turns out to have a profound effect on movement. (That’s part of why some of the new work is so exciting, in that it is finding a way around that problem.) My primary point in this post was to focus on the universality of the value of shaping and immersion learning, both of which appear to be extremey useful in a wide range of contexts.
And lastly, my sincere apologies for any comment I made that caused a perceived need to defend the profession of physical therapy. PT’s have made a huge difference to my long suffering body and I am deeply respectful of their expertise and eternally grateful for their efforts to keep this rusting, old machine chugging along through life.
Bandb says
This is perhaps more relevant to the sniffing and aggression topic but since neurotransmitters are implicated it does also bear examination in relation to this subject.
Whilst researching for a scientific connection between sniffing and aggression I read this ;
http://www.pnas.org/content/101/34/12742.full
Within this the authors clearly relate excessive sniffing in mice with aggression.
What particularly interested me , as the owner of a sniffing, reactive 8 year old male dog , whose behaviour was transformed sometime after his castration, is the connection between serotinin uptake inhibitors and hypervigilance, anxiety and increaded territorial and other aggressive behaviours.
I am wondering if there is a role for the use of serenics;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8-OH-DPAT
and more specifically;
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serenic
in temproarily assisting my chap to rebuild his neural pathways and reclaim his once perfect dog to dog behaviour?
Catherine says
Angel, I think Pike and Alexandra are right on. I’m fairly new at all of this, and have a motivated but highly distractable scenthound, but I’ve noticed that he has shown much more drive and focus in playing fetch after I began ending the game while he was still really engaged and moving on to something else. (Before he would often run after the ball, but then get distracted midway, drop it and run off after some scent.)
Similarly, I hadn’t been able to make much progress with “watch me” in distracting environments. Now, when we’re in the yard on leash, he has to sit, I say “wait” and unclip the leash, then ask him to “watch me.” Only when he makes solid eye contact does he hear “OK, go play” and go bolting off. He’s pretty food-driven, but the “life reward” of getting to go play is *so* much more motivating to him than any treat I could produce.
Perhaps you could try getting him focused on you through play or some ritual that he enjoys, maybe an easy trick, and then just do a couple of reps of something he’s pretty reliable at, jackpot him for engaging in the training exercise, do a couple more reps, and end it while he still wants more. In situations where you know he really wants something else, like off-leash time, have him perform a couple of actions first, then release him.
Deanna in OR says
Cynthia and others have mentioned in passing about extrinsic vs. intrinsic rewards in changing behavior, in dogs and in people. Certainly the advantages of using extrinsic rewards (treats, pats, play etc) to teach and reinforce behaviors in dogs are well documented, and I think this can also be applied for people.
I recently read a book that made me at least take another (or a different) look at this: “Drive” by Daniel H. Pink. It discusses how the highest level of performance is usually achieved in people through use of intrinsic rewards or “drive”, and how extrinsic rewards can actually suppress this drive. As I read it I kept applying it to dog training. Certainly, behaviors themselves can become self-rewarding or “intrinsic” in dogs. I know that agility is that way for both of my dogs, especially my border collie.
I wonder if getting to a place in training, where the reward is more “intrinsic”, would change how we view training schedules? What would an intrinsic reward look like to a dog? How could you use this to improve training?
I’m not a psychologist or behaviorist, just fascinated by how these brains (human and canine) work and interact with the world. I’d love to hear others opinions, or if anyone else has read this book, “Drive”.
Anne says
That’s an interesting question on intrinsic rewards. I’m thinking that means the activity itself is fun for the dog, which is true for many dogs with the running, jumping activities of agility, or sheep herding is a big one where the reward is all in the work. Another one is tracking for some dogs. I am doing tracking with a couple of my dogs and they start out finding the food along the way, but at a certain point they will start skipping past eating treats because they are engaged in the track and solving a nose puzzle. Then I know it is time to take the food off the track and start rewarding for the certain behavior of article indication (telling me they found something).
North says
@Deanna: I originally trained my lab/border collie puppy to chase a ball and bring it back using treats in my hallway, but she’s gotten to love chasing the ball so much that now it’s the absolute best reward I can offer – better than bacon, or peanut butter, or sourdough pancake batter, or even playing with another dog. It’s changed how that particular behavior feels, because now instead of training her to chase/retrieve, it’s a game and a reward, but it doesn’t change the way the rest of the training works. I still have to use external rewards (even when the reward is the ball) for the vast majority of the behaviors.
On the other hand, she does seem to find learning a new command kind of intrinsically satisfying, in that it puts an end to her frustration about what exactly I’m asking her to do. That seems like something that’s more true of working breeds. My neighbors’ heeler will spend half an hour trying new behaviors if she doesn’t know what she’s being asked to do, but their black lab (another working breed, but not as crazy for work as herders) will try three or four things and then be all, ‘this is boring. I’m going to go lie down.’ Guess who knows more commands?
Maggi says
Patricia,
I read “The Brain that Changes Itself” several months ago and I too found the information in it to be enlightening when it came to my dog training and behaviour modification practices. It is a fascinating read, especially since it covers both physical skills (ie the stroke rehabilitation) and mental/cognitive skills and learning. The parts on learning in children and adults with learning disabilities was especially interesting…for all those dog folks out there that think their dogs are “dumb” or have neuro damage and can’t learn…this proves (at least to me) that they CAN learn and that the trick is finding out how each dog/person learns best.
I was lucky enough to meet the lady (Barbara, who’s last name escapes me now) who started the Arrowsmith School in a personal development weekend about ten years ago. We stuck to the curriculum so I didn’t know her whole story, so I was dumbfounded to read her story in the book.
The information in the book can be extrapolated and used in so many ways..in all aspects of our lives. Creating new pathways to change habits, reactions, addictions…it’s all fascinating science and I highly recommend this book to anyone who has any interest. It is well written, not too full of scientific jargon and very entertaining.
Andrea says
I realize this blog posting is a couple of months old at this point but I enjoyed reading it. I love discovering things that positively reinforce 😉 the style of training I thought I was developing 10-15 years ago with few of the resources I have now. (Little did I realize when I started my hands-off puppy classes for 8-16 wk olds that there was a Dr Dunbar who had done nearly the exact same thing!) I’ve been teaching my students for years (especially for puppy parents) to keep the repetitions to no more than 3 correct responses. Also to avoid doing the same routine every single time, to mix up exercises to prevent anticipation and really teach the cues. I’ve also (like most other trainers I’m sure) have my students integrate the cues into everyday life while the dog is learning. I think by making the immersion training fun and relaxed, as well as short and rewarding, most dogs would be (and remain) very motivated.