Behavior Problems as Solutions
I love giving dogs choices, including when it’s related things I want/need them to do. Here’s an example of the “Premack Principle,” which says that “more probable behaviors act to reinforce less probable behaviors.” Most probable because that’s what the dog/cat/child/iguana wants to do, so it’s the perfect reinforcement, right? My version is a variant–the “most probable behavior” is often the one that we call the “problem behavior,”right? In other words, use the problem to get rid of the problem, by giving dogs a choice.
Case in point: Here’s Mr. Wonderful at the door we use often to go to the barn pen, which may or may not contain sheep. (There’s your variable reinforcement example.) Skip is eight years old, going on eight months, and he still loses his marbles when he knows we are about to leave the house and go to the barn. Lots of leaping and whining and, if allowed, would blithely knock me over, bash out the door, bounce off a car, and continue running, unabashed, to his goal. SHEEP SHEEP SHEEP SHEEP.
Needless to say, that was a bit of a problem. So–we have a high probability behavior which is also a problem behavior that we need to turn around. This is a simple one. Skip knows “get back” well, so three separate times I asked him to “get back” while at the door. When he did, quick as I could, I opened the door. The fourth time, I just stood at the door and looked at him. It took awhile (Skip is, well, Skip), but I stayed still, not moving, until finally, his brain calmed down and kicked it, and he scooched backwards. Victory! I opened the door as fast as I could and let him out. The most probable/problem behavior is now the solution.
Here’s a video–watch carefully around second 42. It’s when I put my hand on the door latch, and he knows I won’t open it until he backs up. I opened the door soon as I could once he did, and they were off to the races. (Note: also added in recall for the heck of it, bu never would have done that in the early stages of training.)
I wrote another post in 2020 about this same issue, when Skip became transfixed by the cats three days after he arrived. What Skip wanted was to stare, hypnotically, at Nellie (most probable = most problematic = best reinforcement). I started teaching him Leave It, and reinforced it by letting him go back to staring at Nellie (even if it was in the house, looking out the window.)
I’m writing about it again because I think this concept — the problem equals the solution — is under-utilized and not well understood. Lots of people read the comments, so I would love it if you would provide your own examples. (Sorry you can’t send in videos on a blog post, wish you could.) Regale us with your stories of how you turned problem X into good behavior Y by using X as a reinforcement.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: Snow! Finally snow! It’s been grey and brown and brown and grey forever here. (Another word has been inserted before the word “forever” when talking to friends. I do love alliteration.) Skip is especially thrilled, it can’t be too cold for him, Maggie loves it if the temp stays over 10 degrees F or so, otherwise her previously frost-nipped pads start hurting her. This morning it was 19, so all was good, and the dogs got a great romp.
However, it’s about to be brutal soon, so Miss Margaret will be going out to potty and little else. I’d dig out the booty gear but it’s not going to last, so it’s not worth it. Weather like this makes our one blooming Amaryllis extra appreciated. I’ve gotten away without buying more by feeding them during the summer and putting them in the cellar in fall.
Here’s the next one coming. I fear this photograph will get labeled as, uh, well, you know–not suitable for children, but I love watching the buds creep their way out of the bulb, so there you are. You gotta love botany.
Stay warm (or cool?), safe, dry, away from floods, fires, and the Four Horsemen, and send us your stories of using the Premack Principle on individuals of any species. Human subjects get extra points! Skip and Maggie send you their love.
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Patricia B. McConnell, PhD, CAAB Emeritus is an applied animal behaviorist who has been working with, studying, and writing about dogs for over twenty-five years. She encourages your participation, believing that your voice adds greatly to its value. She enjoys reading every comment, and adds her own responses when she can.
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I have a similar problem/solution if I understand correctly. Our BC mix, Archer, is obsessed with the backyard. It may have squirrels, he might get to play fetch, and he can sprint the perimeter. He went through the screen door twice in the first spring we had him (the second time was so traumatic that he didn’t attempt it again). I taught him that he wasn’t allowed to cross the door threshold until released. However, once released, adolescent Archer would sprint across the deck, jump over the two stairs, and spin around in midair. He wanted to see if the much slower human was following with his fetch toy. Unfortunately, there’s a walkway of concrete pavers between the stairs and the yard. One of these jump spins tore his CCL. Archer had to have TPLO surgery.
He doesn’t have an off leash heel, and I wasn’t about to train it post TPLO in a high stakes situation. Instead, we leash him up for the short walk to the bottom of the stairs, then he’s released. For over a year, we used a standard leash with a clasp. Dealing with the latch mechanism in winter gloves annoyed everyone, especially Archer. The humans fiddling with the leash delayed fetch and zoomies! Then I had an idea: vets and shelters move dogs using slip leads. Archer quickly realized the new slip lead meant faster leashing and unleashing. The moment you approach the back door with that lead, he’s stretches his head forward and puts his ears back so the loop will slip over as fast as possible. Even my husband was amazed at Archer’s eager participation.
Yay snow!! Yay amaryllis!!
This is slightly different than your example…we’ve been using a problem behavior to overcome a fear. For some reason, this year’s New Years Eve fireworks (which went on for a week) really threw Rowan for a loop. We always manage (drugs, white noise, radio, etc.) for a couple of days, but it wasn’t enough this year. Anyway – the fenced back yard became a No-Go zone, day or night, and she couldn’t go out any door unless it was bright daylight. (We learned she was Really Housetrained – she held it from about 4:30 pm to about 8:30 am until the days began to lengthen).
We did a number of interventions (Nutricalm as recommended by our vet, treat sprinkles, 1-2-3 pattern game, etc.). Things improved somewhat, but she was far from eager to go out of her own volition. Then – the squirrels started getting frisky, cavorting through the backyard. SQUIRREL SQUIRREL SQUIRREL SQUIRREL. Now if she spots one through the window, she barrels to the back door, and – no door manners – we open it and she blasts through. Then, after she’s chased it up a tree, she’ll potty and trot back to the house, looking smug. We’ll dial her back to proper door manners eventually, but thank goodness she’s back to finding fun (and pottying) in the backyard.
Premack is very handy. The main area I have used it is to teach my dog to play with one toy over another toy. Or to reinforce a recall.
Contemplating the concepts I really don’t see the difference between premack and operant conditioning. “You do this, you get this”. Is there a difference I am missing that separates these two concepts?
I have to say, I really love your column. It always makes my day when I see your email in my inbox. Today’s topic is one I have been trying to research and implement in our household. I cannot wait to hear about other readers’ examples for inspiration. Our best example is that one of our dogs loves tearing things apart. Recently in New York we started using the recommended bins, which means that every paper box has to be torn into smaller pieces to fit the bin. So here comes Ollie, the box terminator lol. If I feel generous I put a treat in the box, but Ollie is happy to shred for free.
We love our smart Border Collie Belle. A similar thing is when I take out the trash from under the kitchen sink. As soon as she hears or see the white trash bag, she is ready to go to escort me to the trash can on the side of the house. It is outside the normal fenced yard, so this is an unrestricted adventure with extra smells of rabbits and squirrels. As soon as the bag is dumped in the bin, she bolts back to the front door.
Same drill when going out to get the mail or the morning newspaper. I have her wait at the door in a sit/stay, and after I open the door, I release her.
I like the concept that she was going to get excited and bolt anyway if I just opened the door, but now she knows the drill and we are doing this together.
No story to share, but I just wanted to say I watched your video several times, beaming each time—LOVE LOVE LOVE seeing your beautiful pups!
I used this method all the time when training shelter dogs. The goal wasn’t to teach them the exact cues their new owners would – after all, who knows what cues they would end up using – but, rather, to focus on improving behaviors that would help them to be adopted more quickly. This method was very effective in teaching them not to rush out the door. As soon as they sat (and stayed seated), I would open the door and let them run out.
I also use this with my dogs when they sit at the curb before crossing the street. This is especially effective for our “husky/ lab” (i.e. pit bull) mix, who has absolutely no chill and goes from 0 to 100 in about 2 seconds.
I love Premack! I use it a lot for LLW: dog hauls owner out of the house so we get one step (and one step only) on a loose lead just by the front door, the garden gate etc and gradually add more steps until, bingo, the dog no longer charges off. Much easier than trying to get an excited dog to sit by the door, although that can be added later when the dog is calm enough. I find it useful with dogs that can’t take food treats when out because of their level of arousal as it also helps the handler to understand Premack and realise that food is not the only reinforcement as well as understanding how to use environmental arrangement and the consequences of antecedents.
I also use it with dogs who are ball obsessed and clamp their jaws around the ball. This is a bit more complex as it involves a paired cue (pick it up/drop it) but the dog works out, usually in under half a minute, that if he drops the ball he can get to pick it up too. You might have to wait and capture the ball drop to get started. Then we gradually desensitise him to having a hand move towards the ball until it’s possible to pick the ball up and extend the reward to getting to run after the ball if he allows the handler to pick it up.
I do find a marker indispensable for teaching this one so that the dog can work out very quickly that dropping the ball is what is being rewarded (and that no one is going to take it away again, at least not at this stage).
Can’t imagine how we ever managed with it, although I suspect that the really good trainers used it anyway without necessarily being able to accredit it to David Premack.
I think this is similar, at least I hope so:
My small dog, Gracie, is a devoted and dedicated barker. Her habit was to bark continuously from the time I got out her food bowl to prepare her meal until I set it on the floor. I’m addressing the behavior by stepping back away from the kitchen counter where I’m fixing her meal at the first bark. When she stops barking I step back up to the counter and continue. When her bowl is ready I wait to put it down until she is quietly sitting. We’re still a work in progress, but it’s working! I’ve used the same basic technique for getting ready to go out on a leash, hanging the leash back up until the pup is quiet.
I love this topic! My 20 month old Aussie Bess started out being super confinement-averse (panicky screaming and chewing hard on the bars). From a starting point of eating meals in an open crate and concurrently learning that lying down makes Really Good Treats happen, we added the condition that lying down when she finished eating made the crate door open. We’ve progressed by baby steps to the point that now she can happily relax in her closed crate after a meal, even if I’m in the other room washing dishes. She often goes into her crate in between times now to just hang out or enjoy a comfy nap.
I’ve never really thought about it like this but we use this technique in several areas. Being allowed up on the couch when they sit, sitting to be let out the door, sitting to get their leashes put on, lying down/staying calm to get snacks from the counter while I’m fixing dinner.
PS that recall was *impressive*.
Would you characterize “Grandma’s Rule” as being essentially the same as “No Free Lunch?”
Sorry if this is a dumb question
I’ve been ‘enjoying’ that same idiocy whenever we go outside. We’re working on it but using a leash seems to be helping. With Old English Sheepdogs, I find baby steps are the better solution and whenever you can get any kind of cooperation, so much the better. 😉
I love the idea of using the high probability problem as the reinforcement. I guess the closest I’ve come to that is when Archie, my 8 mo old Boston Terrier, sees/hears something in the woods and sets to barking. I can whistle recall then deliver super high value food rewards (I have meatballs just for recall) rather slowly. Then I release him back to the yard to see if the thing is still there. Usually it isn’t or he’s forgotten about it. But he gets to go look anyway.
I don’t have an example to share at the moment, I’m just sharing my joy, warm fuzzy awe, all-is-right for this moment feeling after watching the video 🥹☺️ Kindness and respect between species gets me every time. Love! Thank you for this wonderful start to my day.
I LOVE the recall in this video!!! It’s is so incredible!! I could watch it 100x”s!!
It’s so crazy how fast they are, coming from a Shih Tzu owner LOL 🙂
I love this idea! I think what I’m about to describe is similar to what you wrote about. Our young dog, three going on 3 months, as you say, melts down with joy when we go anywhere near the backyard agility ring. The ring is her happy place. She has a history of terrible leash manners, willing to rip off a human arm in her quest to go do whatever it is she wants to go do — chase a squirrel, for instance. I traded her harness for a martingale when I took her outside, so she got a little more feedback when she pulled, and then asked if she wanted to go play agility. Of course she lost her mind and tried to rip off my arm. I just stayed still, without judgment or comment, until she loosened the leash, then we headed fast to the ring. Over a couple of weeks I increased my expectation for how long she had to keep the leash be loose before we’d head fast to the ring. Soon she’d become a decent loose-leash walking companion, even on long-lead hikes. Every now and then she loses her mind for a moment, leaping forward in joy, but I just stop for a moment and she gathers herself. We’ve used the same idea to get her to sit calmly to get her collar on and wait until I open the door and release her.
I love this idea and it makes so much sense. Jojo is my first dog and I’ve been pretty successful (over time and lots of mistakes) in training her with the basics, but I have been utterly unsuccessful at preventing her jumping on certain guests. Is there a way that this principle could be applied here? I can’t imagine it could work in this case, but I’d love to hear people’s thoughts.
Here is my dilemma: Milo and I hike almost daily. In the car, he begins barking as soon as he recognizes we are approaching a trail head. When it is safe, I pull over until he stops. He has figured out the places I can’t pull over and now barks then. (ie: just pulling into a parking area where it would be dangerous) He then proceeds to bark his celebration at the top of his lungs and doesn’t stop even though we NEVER exit the car until he is quiet. Clearly I am failing in this training because he is almost 6 now and is still doing it.
I am with Erin ( above) that these techniques are invaluable for shelter dogs. Lots of foster dogs are “reactive” when out on a leash walk – usually to other dogs in our urban environment. A firm rule is “we do not meet in the street” so here is fix: my foster dog loses his mind and starts to overreact to the dog coming his way on the opposite side of the street. I start to tell him calmly, yes I see the dog … it is not for you, not YET. Depending on the foster’s level of arousal I might try a “touch” command or feed treats or simply try to keep his attention with “NOT YET” – here is the fix – “Let’s go smell ’em” – so after waiting (im) patiently for the other dog and handler to pass – we cross the street and sniff the scent trail AWAY from the direction the other dog is going. Satisfying to my foster – addresses the desire to engage or get to know other dogs while respecting space needs and getting arousal under control. This takes time but has worked so well that many foster dogs will alert me to an oncoming dog I may have overlooked by sitting and looking at me expectantly for my attention or a treat or waiting for the cue – OK, let’s go smell em. The over eager behavior to react to another dog on leash serves to reinforce better attention to me and emotional control. Because they are fosters, I often don’t know if their arousal is eagerness or fear. It just serves to get a nice walk going. This is a basic to get them adopted.
I have a “thinker” too,, and it’s sometimes a trial to get others to understand the behavior. My guy is very cooperative and wants to please you, but sometimes you just gotta give him time to think. He’s had a few more involved health problems this year, and I have to explain it very carefully to each vet and tech we encounter. The thinking time looks like hesitation to them and so they just want to grab him quickly. That’s the last thing he needs, and just sets us up for future problems.
I taught my first dog not to spontaneously chase squirrels on our walks by letting her chase squirrels – AFTER she stopped, listened, sat and I could be prepared to run with her. It worked so well she started stopping or sitting when she saw them so I could get ready. It’s still my best Premack moment :),
I have been using this techniques the 7+ years of my 7+ year old border collie’s life. She is a screamer (sigh…). Her arousal level can quickly be rocketing off the charts. She’s also prone to infrequent mild seizures that I know can be triggered by her getting overly excited – a major reason to try to help her.
We have to drive to get to our sheep and, needless to say, the ride up the driveway of the farm can be, ahem, noisy. I’ll accept a little whining but when it ramps up I stop the car waiting for her to quiet before driving on. Sometimes I’ll stop and back up the car before going on if she’s really having a hard time keeping control.
Same thing with opening the backdoor. Screaming? I walk away from the door then come back when she’s quiet. Ramping up the noise when I reach for the door knob? I take my hand away. Losing it when I start to turn the knob? I take my hand away.
We’ve been doing this SEVEN PLUS YEARS! LOL!
She’s a smart dog and certainly understands her screaming doesn’t get her what she wants. Are we making progress? Somewhat. She tries SO hard! <3
Needing ear plugs in PA,
Deb
My late lamented Finna used to fence fight the neighbor’s dog through our 6′ wooden privacy fence. The dogs were literally throwing themselves against the fence barking and growling. Not acceptable behavior. I would call Finna and initially if she even glanced my way I’d drop yummy treats on the ground near me which she’d dash over and consume before running back to fence fight some more. Gradually we reached the point where she’d come away from the fight and do something else she loved for a bit before being released to go fence fight again. The duration of the fighting decreased and the intensity dialed down to barking and the occasional pawing at the fence. I was hurling random treats over the fence to the other dog for no barking. Great progress. I was patting myself on the back for being so clever at solving this problem when we went out one day and the other dog was not outside. I watched as Finna ran to the fence and barked and whined calling the other dog who was inside when he ran out barking Finna presented herself to me asking for her treats. She had actually started a fence fight so that she could be rewarded for not participating. She was one scary smart bitch.
Three years ago a mixed breed dog with herding traits came to live with us and our koi fish pond. She quickly became obsessed with the six 20-inch fish and would run non-stop around the edge of the pond to herd them, try to catch them, who knows? We started small with rewarding head turns with her VERY FAVORITE FOODS. Eventually, we ended up with a dog who now can leave the fish easily. Many, many times over all this period I rewarded leaving the fish with immediately letting her go back to the fish. When we are doing other training activities I also will release her to “Go fish.” Sometimes she looks at the pond and chooses to stay with me. Other times she takes off like a banshee, but I feel good about being able to get her back. No fish has ever been harmed (probably not for lack of her trying). I love Premack.
This is an experiment and I don’t know if it will work, but it fits this category. My dog loves to scavenge and has figured out that people often drop bits of food when they get out of the car. So she is adamant about scavenging around cars in the parking lot. The complication is that we compete in Nosework and one of the search elements is vehicles. So I need to both avoid creating uncomfortable feelings about cars and to avoid having the focus around cars to be on scavenging. We’ve started by when she starts to scavenge the ground around a car, I interrupt it and when she lifts her head, I toss some food away from the car. My hope is to get to the point where I don’t have to interrupt but she will be conditioned to lift her head and I can toss the food. We’re on step one right now, and I’m having to work away from cars to get a quick look away and throw food away from us. I hope this works for us, but it’s good just to have a plan to start with!
I use the opportunity to sniff where another dog has walked and/or peed to reinforce my dog for not barking or lunging at other dogs. Once the other dog has safely passed, I will give him a “go sniff” cue so he can smell the other dog’s footprints (or urine, if present).
If I need my dogs to slow their pace, I will reinforce the slower gait by releasing them to go fast again once it is safe to do so.
Not sure if this fits the P principle. To dissuade my pup from taking my fingers off when trying to hand feed her treat, I offer the treat with an open hand but if she lunges for it, I will quickly close my hand. I don’t use any verbal redirection. I keep my hand in the same spot and open it to offer the treat again. We may go thru this lunge, oops no snack, lunge, oops, then she figures out if she is patient and gently approaches to take her snack it all works out and she positively gets her snack. It is very reliable and a win win.
I have used this successfully with other dogs in the past – most tiresomely I spent months standing up and then sitting down again every time my adult rescue dog chomped my thigh in excitement until she got the hang of it. However my current dog reaches over-threshold frustration hysteria in around 10 seconds (not joking). He genuinely can’t think once he gets like that. We have had him 5 years and I’ve never got anything vaguely Premack to work for him.
I’m a big fan of the Premack principle! When my dog Dudley was a puppy, he would go crazy when we would run into one of his puppy friends in the neigborhood. So first I taught him to lie down before releasing him to greet his friends. Alas, I realized my mistake when he’d see one of his puppy friends 2 blocks away in the wrong direction and lie down and refuse to move. So then we switched to him making eye contact with me.
This is also useful for agility! He loves running, jumping, tunnels, and above all, the A frame. But he HATED weave poles. Even when he got confident doing them, he would often dodge out of the last couple poles, especially if the A frame was in sight. But once he realized that he wouldn’t get to do any of the other fun stuff until he hit the weave poles, he’s gotten much better about it.
The occasion I always remember is when a much younger Sophy gate crashed a neighbour’s barbecue in our shared grounds – chicken! sausages! burgers! crisps! small children dropping all the above!! simply proved too much for her usually very good recall. I went to her, insisted, and eventually, very reluctantly, she began to follow me back to the house. After a few yards I sent her back to the party for just a few minutes – pure joy, and she was much happier about coming home when time was up. These days she is elderly, very deaf, and more determined to get her own way than ever, but there are still faint echoes of the time that doing just a little bit of what I asked for got her exactly what she wanted, she has been just that bit more prepared to compromise!
(Sophy had a slight cough and wheeze on Friday – given her age I made a Saturday morning appointment at the vets, “just in case”. A diagnosis of double pneumonia, several different antibiotic by mouth and injection and a small dose of steroids and she is very nearly back to normal after just a few days. Thank heavens for well-honed instincts that let us catch things early!)
Brilliant decision Frances, lucky Sophy! So glad she’s back to normal. Whew!