First off, some good news. Many more people from all over the world have joined us in the past few months, the traffic to The Other End of the Leash blog has increased rapidly in the past six months. (Hello Serbia, United Arab Republic, Boliva, Nepal…!) What a joy it is to have this international conversation with dog lovers from so many different perspectives. However, our increased traffic was causing some website problems; as a friend says, a “high quality problem” indeed. Along with fixing website glitches, we are taking this as an opportunity to renew and refresh, and so we have made some design changes to the blog.
When you go to the home page you will automatically be on the page of the most current blog post. Comments will be visible directly below, and previous posts are linked at the top of the page on the right hand side. It’s cleaner, easier to read and write comments, and should allow yet another substantial increase of visitors to join in without causing the website to lick its electronic paws.
Secondly, this seems like a good time to pass the microphone to you, and ask what you would like to discuss on this forum. I have a list of potential topics that I’m charged up about and look forward to writing up, but since we have so many who are new to the conversation, this is a great time to hear from you about what you’d like to discuss. The sky is the limit and I’m all ears… And if you recently joined us from Albania, the Palestinian Territories or Albania, (etc.) just jump in and say hi.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm. Cabin fever is raising its bland, soggy head. We missed the huge storm that much of the midwest got today, I’d say we only got 4- 5 inches out here. But, oh oh oh, I miss color! I miss green leaves and red flowers and bright yellow and black bees. Fresh snow is beautiful, and the woods here in winter can be a true delight, but for right now, I must confess, I’m more than ready for spring.
In a desperate attempt to surround myself with color, rather than the black, white and grey of the outdoors, I took a photo of my winter socks that I wear to bed every night. Besides being warm and cozy, the bright colors make me happy. Move over Lady Gaga.
Forgive me if I’ve shared too much.
This morning on the way to feed the sheep, Willie posed in front of the red barn with his blue plastic encircling his head. A great photo and lovely colors, but of course, I had no camera on me. Later this morning I tried tor recreate it… you all know how that went. I ended up laughing so hard I couldn’t keep the camera still, because either Willie wasn’t in front of the barn, or he dropped his frisbee and cocked his head, or he was facing away, etc. etc. Here’s a shot I did get, in which Willie enchanges his head for the frisbee itself.
Someone tell me that spring really will come again? Willie and I BOTH have cabin fever, we are both fighting boredom in the evenings. The silver lining is that we are making significant progress on his learning labels for two toy objects. I’m going super slowly, this is clearly difficult for him. The hardest part will probably be going from two toys to three, but that is far down the road. At least this week Willie got to work some of the flock at the University, when we did a sheep herding/predator-prey demonstration for my UW class. He was clearly a bit nervous.. he hasn’t worked all winter and the stock pavilion is small and enclosed, but he did just fine and seemed as happy as I’ve seen him when we got home. Spring will come, yes it will.
Rebecca Rice says
Not a comment on what I would like to see, but on the blog set-up. I would find it infinitely helpful if there was a way to go to “first unread comment”. When they get long, over several days, it can be hard to remember what you have and haven’t read already. Thanks!
Beth with the Corgis says
I do like the new design. Very clean.
I would love to see a post and discussion about dog-to-dog greeting behavior. Little of what I have read matches in any way what I see.
My Maddie is by all indicators a dog with little status. The cat knocks her around, given half a chance (of course we control activities in a way that greatly minimizes this). Jack will walk right up to her and take a toy out of her mouth. Other dogs completely ignore her corrections, even puppies: if a dog is crowding her or trying to hump her and she snarks, they ignore her completely (of course very mannerly dogs will, but no one else). She never gets the ball or frisbee if there is a group of dogs. She is neither an alpha nor an “alpha wanna-be”.
And yet… she almost universally greets other dogs with pitched forward ears, stares, and up on her toes. If anyone tries to engage in any way she is behind our legs. She does not read other dogs very well despite plenty of socialization. It seems to me that her approach is not one of dominance but rather of uncertainty. But her posture is classic “dominance”, save the absent tail. This dog does not have a dominant bone in her body, with dogs or people.
Jack on the other hand…. he is ingratiating to people out and about, but at home does not hesitate to challenge requests. He has lots of opinions and is quick to argue his point. Once he has bought into house rules he will not only follow them whether there is someone there to watch or not, but also enforces them (if he has a chance, which again I tend to minimize) with the other animals.
If HE tells another dog “enough” the other dogs listen, always. I have seen adolescents who barrel over the top of everyone give him a clear birth after one “back off”bark. He is generally quite tolerant of other dogs capers, but if another dog is rude enough or pushy enough to get on his nerves he will say so and the other dogs back down. I can think of two dogs he is deferential to and both are over 100 pounds, males.
However, he loves nothing better than to meet-and-greet. It’s his favorite thing in the world after hikes in the woods. He goes out of his way to attempt to greet any dog or person who gives him a friendly glance. The more the merrier. In the house he does not like petting or cuddling, but tolerates and even seeks out bear hugs and pats and cuddles from strangers. (for this strange reversal of behaviors I have dubbed him “The Mayor.”)
And so HE greets other dogs and people alike in what is commonly called a “submissive” posture, with ears back, puppy-style, against his head to varying degrees and a slightly lowered posture. After greetings he will cheerfully assert his authority if it’s required (and frequently he will immediately sit on the feet of new people).
It seems to me from watching my two that greeting behavior has little to do with relative dominance and a heck of a lot to do with what the dog hopes to gain from the interaction (for Maddie, protecting herself from other dogs’ always unclear—to her— motives by assuming a “back off” posture; for Jack, making new friends). It has made me watch other dogs, and I’ve noticed similar traits from them.
So what gives? Countless online and published resources still talk about greeting behavior as being a giveaway to status and I just fail to see it.
Jen G says
Ugh! I hear ya on the spring thing! We’ve had so much snow up here in Saskatchewan, I’ve got to pull out the big snowblowin’ tractor at least once a week. At least the sun shines today and the birds continue to sing. 🙂 Perhaps we should strive to be more like dogs and just enjoy the moments no matter what? Easier said than done…Our new mantra: “Spring will come. Spring will come.”
Marguerite says
Congrats on the need for a redesign! I respectfully offer a “bug report,” though. Bits of the text on the right side of the text section are getting snipped off. I find this problem in both Firefox and Chrome.
And yes, spring will come. An elderly friend and I always jump the season and celebrate Spring on March 1, no matter what the weather. (Frequently we celebrate with thimble-sized glasses of sherry–or brandy, if available–which is warming in and of itself.)
Rose C says
I like the new design, particularly the top right where now I can see the blog titles. I just recently started reading the blog [and saw I have up to 2008 to go back to :)] and with the calendar with highlighted blog dates before, I kept clicking on the past dates just to realize I’ve read those blog entries already. This design works better for me who tends to suffer from (premature) short-term memory loss.
I can’t wait for spring either. I didn’t like that with this year’s winter, snowdays had often been followed by rain then a sudden drop in temperature again (Chicago area) and it had turned the snow-covered areas into slippery blocks of ice, at least in the places where I bring my dogs to. I slipped the previous week as I didn’t realize there was hard ice underneath the fluffy snow. It caught me off guard. My one dog seemed to think it was my signal for ‘Playtime!’ because she ran back to me and jumped on my lap! I thought that was fun.
Kat says
Using Chrome I experience the same bug that Marguerite reports. The joys of different browsers as I learned when overseeing a website design recently. No doubt your webmaster can fix the problem fairly simply now that it’s been pointed out.
I’ve enjoyed all the topics that you’ve addressed, I especially love discussions about how dogs think and learn, and expect I’ll learn things from anything you choose to discuss. But like Beth w/ Corgis there’s something I observe a lot in my own dogs that is at odds with the literature I find. The behavior is humping and mounting. The literature describes it as dominance and mating but what I see is that Ranger sometimes uses it to initiate play and sometimes to settle a dog that is very wound up, stressed, uncertain, out of control. After watching Ranger and now watching him with his high strung unsocialized sister I think there is a whole lot more to the behavior than humans typically think.
Beth with the Corgis says
Kat, I agree that there is a lot to humping that isn’t said. Maddie will hump Jack, and only Jack (I’ve never seen her try it with another dog). And she only does it when he runs and plays in the house, something that she seems to find exciting, but is then unsure what to do with her own excitement. SHE does not really like running in the house.
In virtually all matters she defers to Jack. He generally tolerates her humping with a sort of benign frustration, though occasionally he will give her the most mild of corrections. Over time I have conditioned her to get a chew toy instead, and that mostly works.
She has done this since soon after we brought her into the house. In her case it seems to be a displaced excitement (I want to join in your game but I don’t know how so I’ll hump you instead). But I’m not 100% sure myself of her thinking.
I suppose it matters that she copies most of what he does (“Let’s pee here!” “We’re going in our crates!” “Oh, let’s roll in this spot!”), but in this case she can’t copy his enthusiasm for hall hockey and so she does this? But again, not sure.
Trisha says
I love the idea of talking about greeting behavior and the real function of mounting. And thanks so far for the feedback re the new design. We’ll relay all this to our IT prince on Monday and go from there. Very much appreciate letting us know how it looks on different servers, etc. How to fix such things is beyond my pay grade, so Katie and I will be sponges and send in reports soon.
By the way, we just got back from Olbrich Gardens Conservatory in Madison and surrounded ourselves with warm, humid air and a multitude of green, flowering plants. Ahhhhhhh! That helped the cabin fever. Hang in there all you other snow birds, we’ll make it…
liz says
Ears- I’d love a discussion on ear positions and what they mean in various contexts. For instance, flattened ears can be indicative of fear or anxiety, right, but can the gesture sometimes signal concentration? Or maybe serve some other more utilitarian purposes?
Thanks for the opportunity, and for all the great writing!
Jane says
I’d love to hear a bit about what is known regarding the relative abilities of different dogs to understand verbal commands. This actually seems to fit right in line with your current Willie project, and his difficulty associating objects with spoken words. I’ve had a Lab who was (god bless her) dumb as a post in terms of learning new tricks, but who seemed to learn speech effortlessly. We never deliberately tried to teach her words like “toast”, “popcorn”, and “dinner”, but she learned anyway, and would instantly move to the right part of the kitchen in the hopes of something dropping her way. I think we’ve all known dogs who would go nuts over a word unless you spelled it. (And some even seem to learn to “spell”–I had a Welsh terrier who ran into the back yard at the letters S-Q-U because she had learned to associate those sounds with the word “squirrel”.)
My current dogs, both red heelers, are completely different. As herders they are intimately tuned in to motion, of course, and so training them to perform new behaviors is a piece of cake, as long as I use consistent signals with my body. But even after four years living in my home, they don’t react to the words walk, ride, car, leash, or any words associated with food except for “treat.” It took me more than a year to get them to reliably lie down with just a verbal “down” command, though a flick of my finger gets instantaneous results.
So maybe this is a really naive question (I’m no professional!), but is it well known that there is a breed difference when it comes to understanding human speech? Do dogs often “specialize” in either speech or movement? And if a given dog doesn’t understand human speech very well, are they less likely to also correctly interpret the sounds their fellow dogs make?
Frances says
I’ve had the same problem with text clipping on Camino.
I too would find an investigation of greeting behaviour interesting. Sophie sounds very like Beth’s Jack – she checks out every oncoming human and greets those that smile, flattening her ears and turning her body sideways. She is so good at it that I often feel like a Lady in Waiting, following behind to take the bouquets and posies as she passes them on …
I would also like to discuss all those not-quite behaviours. The dog that is shy, but not pathologically fearful; that humps or the equivalent, but not obsessively; that is not very keen on other dogs, but not to the point of attacking them on sight. Do we need to act? Will things get worse? Or do we just expect far too much from our dogs, who are merely acting like dogs?
I would love to hear about ways of enriching my dogs’ lives that don’t necessarily involve getting involved in organised or competitive activities (never really been my bag!). And finally, I am always fascinated by your take on new research and investigations, and the ensuing discussions.
Meanwhile, yes – roll on Spring!
Beth with the Corgis says
I have another request, though this one may be a bit more controversial. I’d love to see a discussion on parvo risk vs socialization of puppies, given what we know about current vaccines and their ability to get past maternal antibodies. Are puppies safe to go out two weeks after one round of shots? Two? Three?
I read such conflicting things. I know what my vet and breeder told me and what advice I followed, and while I have found info to back that up I have also found info that directly conflicts with it. I know there is no 100% correct answer, but a weighing of the odds would be helpful, to me anyway.
carla karr says
I love videos and the discussions they generate. Put greeting behavior and video together and you will have a winner!
Life with Riley & Stella says
The crocuses have just started blooming here in Vancouver BC and are a welcome sight. It seems early this year but I am happy to take it. I like the new blog design.
Bonnie H. says
We’ve got plenty of green here in the Pacific NorthWest, along with a lot of gray. Suppose all the gray is what gives us all the green… but when the sun shines, it’s SOOO beautiful!
Maybe something about training in multi-dog households? Might be somewhat ‘too late’ for us (we have littermates who are 11 now and have US trained well), but still an interesting topic and helpful to many people.
Christine C says
Love your blog! I have a burning question…when dogs encounter something stinky (say fox poop or a dead frog) it appears there are at least 4 options: 1) smell and move along, 2) smell and then pee on it, 3) smell and then roll in it or 4) smell and then eat it/attempt to eat it. What makes them choose one over the other? I have noticed that as my dogs have gotten older they most often select option 1 or 2. Unless we’re talking about deer or goose poop, then it’s almost always option 4 (ick!). When I watch them investigate something interesting I always wonder what’s going on in their head? Why might they choose to take a roll today and ignore something seemingly similar tomorrow?
Aurora says
I’m so head down in the details of puppy management at the moment that all I can think about are my own individual stories and questions. I’m not quite sure how those fit in here, but I guess that’s your call rather than mine, so I’ll just ask them already and stop dithering.
I have a four month old samoyed, and we are failing crate training. We didn’t really start working on it until ten weeks by that point the puppy on/off switch was gone. Spring is delighted to stay in the crate as long as there is something tasty to chew. Once the food is gone she will bark. No matter how sleepy she is when I put her in she will either chew on the foody thing until it is gone (then bark) or, if there is no food, she will just bark. I’m sure it’s not scared barking…or at least, I’m certain it doesn’t start that way. She barks a couple of times, waits for me to come let her out, and gradually escalates from there into near constant barking. If she hears me moving towards the crate she goes silent until she concludes I’m not actually going to let her out or give her food. After half an hour I take her out to pee (in a micro-pause), put her back, and she barks for another ten minutes or so before finally going to sleep. I tried waiting her out about five times (though not on consecutive days), and it did not get better. It was utterly miserable for all of us and left me worried about a complaint to the landlord. I’m at home all day at the moment so I can technically watch her, (I have been) but it’s really wearing on me and I feel like the constant togetherness is negatively impacting almost every aspect of her training. So I’ve given up on putting her in there for naps and I’m training it like a stay. That’s working, but still only for a few seconds at a time. It feels like we’re a very long way away from the crate being anything more than a place to stash her with a bone (and if she has a bone, I don’t really need to stash her anywhere). Is there something else I could be doing? Are we just condemned to muddle through for however long it takes? Short of moving in with my parents and their big safe yard and Spring’s distracting mother and brother, is there something I could be doing to enforce my own boundaries without a safe place to leave her alone (we’re still working on body blocks, but if we look at her while we do them they often result in some combination of play bows, barking, jumping, and grabbing at me–and it’s really hard to regulate how much pressure I’m putting on her if I’m not looking at her)?
Oh, and on the subject of individual questions, is there somewhere I can get more of Calling All Pets than is available on WPR’s website? I’m only finding 21 episodes now and I could swear there were more this summer.
Lisa Milbrandt says
Your frisbee story made me laugh, River jogged our entire jog this morning with her frisbee in her mouth but flipped over her head like some weird gag. Maybe not a bad idea for a somewhat reformed Fiesty fido!
Altissima says
More observations for your IT prince: Using safari on iPad and iPhone, I also find small portions of the text snipped off,as others have reported in Chrime and Firefox.
Otherwise,overall the layout works well.
Lisa W says
I like the new design, too, although I must admit the first time seeing it, I thought something was wrong!
@ Beth w/Corgis: I have read about dogs that are unsure or less confident moving into the thing that makes them anxious. It doesn’t mean they are ok with it, but some dogs move into their fears (and then once they get there don’t know how to handle it or have an adverse reaction) and some dogs back away or freeze, etc. Just as people have very different reactions to loud noises or some perceived threat. Sounds like Jack doesn’t have much to worry about, but maybe Maddie does and she doesn’t know quite what it is yet! Just some thoughts. Can’t wait to hear Trisha’s take and a larger discussion on this.
I’d love to see more blogs on things that seem like a contradiction but when you peel back the layers, there’s an ah-ha moment. I also loved the last two blogs that discussed a study or someone’s finding and led to really interesting discussions and stories.
Jeff says
Likewise, Chrome on Mac OS X, the text doesn’t fit in the frame, or whatever device your web magician is using. Comments work fine, though…
Also, the text is TINY. You’re either going to have to have to write less, edit better, or increase the font size. (or I’m going to go blind, and not of my own doing…)
Kerry M. says
I’d also be very interested in the parvo/socialization risk. I imagine there might be regional differences, too, but I’d love to hear a frank discussion.
Are you going to do Brian Hare’s dognition canine assessment test? It’s how I’m spending my Sunday. I’d love a discussion around that.
Beth with the Corgis says
Lisa W, I do know just what you are saying and it’s hard to get a read on whether she’s uncomfortable or just excited. She’s very “herdy” and Corgis are close-contact upright herders; it’s also entirely possible that she is just very excited and hopes they will run! She does better off-leash and she DOES tend to chase after any dog that moves quickly. She will bark when things are moving or when she hopes to get them to move.
Needless to say, we carefully manage her dog-to-dog greetings. She is lovely with tiny dogs, young puppies, and has a special fondness for beagles for some reason. Big dogs she is hit-and-miss with on initial greetings (meaning when she first sees them, even if she knows them). But once she’s around them for a minute or two and relaxes she’s fine. Since she plays “monkey see, monkey do” with Jack all the time we have found it helpful to let her watch Jack greet the other dog first.
She also has the attention span of a gnat, so there is that. 🙂 But she’s such a sweetie and a cuddler, and so loves life that she really is a joy to be around.
Laceyh says
Christine C:
There’s a fifth reaction possible to an icky thing. My first foster, a Pomeranian, was the first to spot a half of a mouse on a walk. She retrieved it to my hand immediately. I struggled to say “Oh, how nice! Thank you!”
My Misty is a leader-type, not competitive over status but she can tell an obnoxious dog “No” with one vocalization, and it works. She tries to ignore and avoid dogs she doesn’t like, but will correct if she’s pushed. She has also helped timid or anxious dogs quite appropriately.
Ute Hamann says
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvaY7Eut_o8
Interesting video for a discussion: I watched it several times, would be interesting to talk about in the blog!
Ute
Nicola says
Even in Australia where we still have green in winter, I have a lovely burgundy bedspread I put on to cheer me up! I don’t know how you cope with months of snow.
As for questions, a while ago you talked about autonomy, and I’m still wondering about need for autonomy versus the need for preventing bad habits forming, especially in puppies; also anything about getting cats and dogs to get along.
Ute Hamann says
I would love to have the kind of subscription that sends you an email as soon as a new topic is opened. So often I missed the best discussions as I am not that organised to check regularly enough. Possible?
Ute
Janet C says
I’d love to see more information following on the Cautious Canine. I’m re-reading the book now to continue helping my extremely timid guy. It is very difficult to create scenarios since his safety perimeter is so very very far.
Lisa W says
Beth’s last sentence brought another request for a blog topic to mind. What is it about dogs, and our dogs in particular, that make us love and try so hard and appreciate them so much? Not the lowering of blood pressure or the brain’s chemical responses, but the things we love despite the challenges or realities of the dog we have vs the dog we thought we wanted. The story of the dog not the dog’s story. Maybe too open-ended but I know I’d sure love to read about it.
Barbara says
I’m a huge fan of yours! This is only my second time commenting. I would love for you to cover more in-depth topics on dog reactivity and aggression and dog-dog resource guarding.
Also, both of my dogs have been going through some major changes since turning four. I remember reading somewhere (maybe on this blog) that dogs go through another “phase” after turning three to four years of age. My female’s noise sensitivity and anxiety got increasingly worse, and my male has become more status seeking.
Lastly, a post or two about bringing home a baby among dogs would be great.
Keep up the good work!
Barbara
Janet says
Love your blog and books- thank you! Much appreciative for you welcoming input, too.
I’m with Beth with Corgis in wanting to learn more about socialization cues. We have a mini poodle mix rescue that was about 3 when we got him and he’s lived a year with us now. He definitely was undersocialized as a pup- he’s fearful around people and dogs- and we’ve worked to help build his confidence. He’s much better with people now, although he still has certain triggers (men in hats, anyone?) and will bark.
He’s curious about other dogs from a distance of 10 feet – head up, ears curious, tail wagging. This is new and wonderful. But depending on the dog’s energy, he can quickly become terrified and want to GO NOW. It all happens so fast that what looks like a potentially good situation goes bad quickly. I don’t want to keep walking him away from opportunities for success, but I also don’t want to continue these undermining experiences.
We live in an urban centre (Vancouver BC), so off-leash areas where things could unfold organically could be good in theory. Most of our experiences haven’t been good- when I have let him off with one or two dogs whose energy looks unthreatening to me, he can get rushed and anxious. He has good recall, so I take him elsewhere- there are some good trails where he has space to choose a meet and greet with other dogs on the trail – sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn’t. Those have been good outings, but they’re not possible to do during the week.
He does have a couple of dogs in the neighbourhood that he loves, but his meet and greets with them are always on leash. We have a lifetime to build this, I know, but how best to do this? He’s come a long way and I know he can get more comfortable and confident, but I need to know how best to support him?
Dieta says
Hi… I’m from Singapore. It’s looking great, except that the right portion of the blog content is snipped off, just like what others have mentioned before. I use google chrome for browsing.
D
Kellen says
I tried to get a second dog this summer to be a companion for my current dog. However, the current dog kept starting fights. Since we don’t have a schedule that allows us to separate them all day, we moved the 2nd dog out.
Our first dog really enjoys being an only dog, but is alone for at least 10 hours a day. She has a yard that she can get in and out of.
Do you have any suggestions for more entertaining toys for a single dog? Or suggestions for what games we can play with her when we’re home, since we are now her only source of socialization?
Frances says
Oh yes – I second the cat question! And dealing with the self appointed fun police – Sophy enforces my rules on the rest of the animals whether I want her to or not (No clawing of furniture; No stealing of food off the table; No yapping when we are out in the car; No cat fighting on my bed when I am trying to sleep), and when I ask her to stop gives me that “But you said it wasn’t allowed!” look…
Tina says
I would love to see information about bringing a new dog into a 1-dog house. Especially a cautious dog, that is very attached to me. She is OK in a doggy daycare situation (I am not there), but has been snarky with other dogs we meet on walks, esp. if they want to greet me. It has never been more than a growl and snap. How do I know if dog-dog greeting will escalate. I work hard to have a loose leash when greeting. I think my dog is an Alpha wannabe.
My dog is a mix-breed anything & everything. She is very playful, and loves the chase, don’t think I could ever call her off a rabbit. Very sensitive to visual changes. Person carrying a box no longer looks like a person and warning barks begin.
Laura says
The blog reads great and sometimes that is very hard to accomplish with a screen-reader so bravo. Anyhow, i’d love to see a post on dog names. i’d love to know why you named your dogs what you did. I read in your books why you named Lassie the way you did, but what about your other dogs? I’d also love to hear why fellow readers named their dogs what they did? Did the dogs come already named and if so, did the reader keep the name? i’d also love a dog post on dogs and dreaming. I think, from observabable evidence alone, it’s clear that they do, but have their been studies done? As for Spring… yup, i’m in that camp as well. It’s just gray, snowy and gloomy around here, but not terribly cold, which is something. i just remember last year, when it was 80 degrees on St. Patrick’s day. that was wonderful having Corn beaf and cabage with the windows open. Spring is coming, Spring is coming, Spring is coming.
A.S. says
I love your updates and discussions on current dog research and studies.
Kat says
@tina; what you’re describing seeing in your dog sounds a lot like the resource guarding/protecting me that we experience with our dog Finna. She was raised by animal hoarders who then dumped her at the Humane Society (credit to them for trying to do something about their overabundance of dogs). From all appearances she’d had very inconsistent interactions with people in her formative years and then was dumped into the terrifying shelter environment. Having taken her out of the scary place, offered her consistent interactions, shown her want we wanted of her and being, generally, the source of ALL good things I became her most precious resource to be guarded from the other animals and even people in the house much less people or animals we met on walks. She got so bad we stopped taking her for walks altogether and my husband couldn’t get within 20 feet of me without her growling and even snapping at him. Not saying your dog is anywhere near as bad as Finna was or that it’s necessarily the same cause in your dog’s case just that the behavior sounds similar.
In good news though, many private lessons with a highly skilled trainer with experience in cases like her and just recently Finna finally found a way to soothe herself and relax when my husband comes near me. She grabs a rubber ball and chews it like gum but it allows her to be calm enough to lay down when he comes near me and the more she is practicing that the less she’s finding it necessary to protect/guard me. She still has a long way to go but this was an enormous step in the right direction. All of which brings me to another blog topic suggestion–behavior can often look the same but the cause and intent of the behavior can be different (fear aggression, resource guarding aggression, etc. all look the same for example) so how do you figure out the underlying cause so you can treat the problem.
Rose C says
I agree with all the suggested topics:
>Dog-dog greeting
>Mounting
>Re: dogs’ relative ability to understand words (always amazes me when dogs turn their heads in response to their names being said)
>Dog cognition (broad topic but anything about it will be wonderful to discuss)
>Regarding rolling on icky things (or things I don’t even see), my question is why do they do that? Do they want to keep the smell and communicate with other dogs where they’ve been? If so, for what possible purpose? Or do they like the smell so much that they want to take it with them to sniff more later (like how we take home a spray from the perfume tester in the mall?)? Is there any other animal who does this?
>Are there ways to help our dogs read other dogs better? Or do they just learn this as they meet different dogs? My one dog gets snarled or snapped at from time to time and always, it was something I saw coming just by looking at the other dog (though my dog appeared totally clueless as she wag her face and body in front of the dog). Did she just not read the dog well or was just too persistent by personality or too nervous to notice (I know she is not a confident dog)?
>Also would wish to know other innate dog behaviors that could possibly explain some behaviors (either good or bad) that we typically see in our own dogs (e.g., headshake and grabbing another dog on the back neck is a prey-killing move) so I would know whether to just observe, discourage, or be concerned about a particular behavior. I’ve also come across ‘puppy retrieval’ and ‘puppy retrieval call’ behaviors which really fascinated me, especially with regard to the timing of the onset and offset. I wish to learn more innate behaviors not typically discussed in general dog books.
>More topics regarding the human-dog bond, the relationship that we don’t share with any other animal species. Evolution of the relationship(?) and how it developed through the years.
>Biggest questions in my mind: How do dogs really see humans? How do my dogs see me? (Though I guess I have to be a dog to find the real answer to this.)
I am looking forward to all the discussions we will have.
julie says
I am wondering if thereis any research on dogs sense of smell. I have one dog who is reactive. He does not seem to have a good nose. He has a hard time locating a lost ball for example. Could a deficit in sense of smell cause him to misinterpret what he is seeing and overreact?
Nee says
Greetings from Singapore too, and I see Dieta has also found you – a coincidence indeed :). It’s hot (usually above 80 deg Fahrenheit) and humid (90%) most of the year, though we’re getting some monsoon storms the past few weeks. Some bits on the right side of the page are also snipped off in Safari. I was just watching your DVD, Lost in Translation, and since you invited us to your blog, I came! Looking forward to sharing ideas on dog behaviour.
Rebecca Rice says
I’d like to know your thoughts on psychotropics and dogs. I currently have Katie on Prozac, which is an SSRI (selective serotonin re-uptake inhibitor), and it has really made a difference in her anxiety/stress/fear levels. But I have not really clicked with the behaviorist that I have been using and who is prescribing it (and that might be worth a discussion in itself… how important is that “click”… do you use someone who is well-regarded, skilled, etc., but that you don’t feel a connection with, or someone maybe less well-known or skilled that you do feel a connection with?) I am thinking that, at some point, I will want to try weaning her off the Prozac, to see if the changes are permanent or not. But that is a scary thing to think about, when I remember how very different she is when she is a scared dog! My thinking is that she is either a dog who finds a lot of life very scary, and thus can learn, through time, patience, and counter-conditioning, to overcome that, and can come off the Prozac and be relatively happy. OR… she is a dog that simply does not make enough serotonin, in which case she may be on Prozac for life to keep everyday situations from being overwhelmingly stressful. But there doesn’t seem to be a way of figuring that out except trial and error.
Trisha says
Welcome Nee and Dieta from Singapore! And a few answers to some requests:
Jeff asked if the font size could be bigger. You can actually change that yourself by going into your Preferences and changing the size of the text.
Ute asked about a subscription feed. That’s what the RSS button is for, just click on RSS and it will get you signed up.
Monika says
I like the new design and it works fine on my browser (explorer) or maybe you already fixed it!
It is always great to read about new research on your blog and the practical application. It’s nice to read your personal updates and see your pictures – it puts everything in context. Also the video exercise you did a few weeks ago was really helpful!
The topics that were suggested sound interesting.
It would be good to know if you can help a poorly socialized rescue dog to read other dogs better or adopt better dog manners.
Nee says
Thanks, Trisha :)! I’m sorry to jump back to your earlier post on the effect of music, but if I may share some anecdotal information. I recently published a maiden article in APDT’s The Chronicle of The Dog (Spring 2013 Issue) – the short title is “The Midnight Snack”. In there, I mentioned the use of classical and new age music (such as contemporary orchestral and vocal renditions of Buddhist mantras) as one way to help a noise sensitive dog relax in an urban high-rise living situation. I’ve also tried the music from “Through a Dog’s Ear” – my dog did sleep through it, but I was woken up by the bird calls in one of the tracks (perhaps because my Ph.D. was in bird behavioural ecology and so woke up in order to identify the calls :)). As a dog trainer, I work pretty closely with a key shelter in Singapore and would be curious to see how we can design an acoustic setup that can be applied functionally to both soothe the dogs and humans. This may be of interest to you too, since the shelter will be relocating in a few years time to a site that’s close to an airforce base, and I’m trying to think of a way to help both canine and human ears! Thanks for listening and reading… bedtime!
Andy says
I know it’s a somewhat delicate subject (no pun intended), but I would love to hear a follow-up on the spay-neuter issues Ted Kerasote referred to. This can have some significant policy implications down the road and I’d love to hear what you think.
I watched your dog play video not long ago via Tawzerdog and it was delightful, delightful, delightful. Thank you so much for being such a fantastic presenter. I learned a lot.
Sylvia Teague says
The new format is nice and is used by many other web sites I visit.
I would like to know if there are any studies that tell us how dogs learn by using different senses. For instance, I know that we learn best through either visual, auditory, or tactile means. I’m a more tactile hands on type in learning. Do dogs use scent as a learning method? Do scent and vision provide enough information for a “fear”, “play” or “curious” response? Does breed, (sight or scent hound, working/herding) influence learning? What senses are involved in “problem solving”?
Since age and orthopedic issues are beginning to limit strenuous activities for my dog I’d like to add some stimulation/learning we can do to keep his mind active, since he’s a herding breed and needs some new jobs! LOL
Mia says
I would love to hear your thoughts about training livestock guarding dogs! We visited a sheep research center with my Ethology class and were told that the only way to raise a good guard dog is to never ever let them bond with people. The Anatolian pups out there were shut in a goat pen and completely isolated from people. 🙁 This is apparently the conventional wisdom, but it certainly didn’t seem like the way you would have raised Tulip.
Which kind of ties into another discussion I’d love to hear about: how to balance the welfare of dogs with some of the jobs we ask them to do. Military working dogs are trained pretty harshly to do stressful work, and increasingly often I’ve noticed service dogs that seem very stressed out and are almost constantly reprimanded by their handlers. Are there things we can do to make their lives better? Is it even ethical for us to demand these things from them?
Frances says
Just a quick thank you to your webmaster for implementing changes so quickly – I particularly like being able to see that there have been new comments on recent posts!
Rebecca Rice says
I don’t know if you would ever do a blog on this, but will throw it out there just for an idea. What’s your thoughts on animal communicators? Total hokum? Mostly hokum? Absolute truth? Fun, but take with many grains of salt? I ask because I got advice from one once (on the color of harness that my dog would like), which was a color I never would have chosen (pink), and, technically, not a color that I think dogs would be good at distinguishing. But I was at an event with collar vendors, and somewhat on a whim, offered my dog a choice of several different collars, and she consistently picked out one particular shade of pink. We shuffled the collars several times, and she always picked the same one. And she loved that harness to the day that she died. So, I don’t know what to make of that. Random coincidence? I know that you may say the Clever Hans analogy was in play, but it wasn’t the shade of pink that _I_ wanted (I liked the dark cherry one, and Trinkett kept picking a bright clear pink). I’ll admit, for things like collar colors it probably doesn’t really matter if they are hokum, as opposed to something like medical advice. But just curious what your experience has been, and whether there are any studies on this.
Leslie V says
Hope I’m not too late with a thought on a topic to be discussed. And maybe this is not so much a topic in itself but could tie in with some of the other great suggestions. I would love to know why some dogs will do what I refer to as a “corn chew.” It’s a nibble that makes me think of eating corn on the cob, hence the corn reference. 🙂 I believe it’s a social thing but would love to hear thoughts on it. I see it mainly when I am loving on one dog, the other joins in and does the “chewing”. I’ve also noticed that not all dogs will do it. A friend of mine who only in the last several years has become sold on adopting mixed breeds, said she never saw it in any of her purebred dogs, but most of her mixed breeds will do it. Both canine parties seem to enjoy this, the one nibbling and the one receiving the nibble.
Looking forward to lots of great discussion on many interesting topics!
Trisha says
I’m writing a list of all the topics suggested, thanks so much for so many good ideas. Leslie, I just read your comment and love your “corn chew” phrase. If I am right about what you are describing, it usually is called ‘nibbling’ and is a kind of grooming that dogs do to others that they are close to. It fits then perfectly that your dogs join in when you are “loving on” one of them. Sounds like your dogs get along great, at least for group grooming sessions anyway!
Tina says
@Kat, I think your observations about my Freyja seeing me as a resource to guard is true, not severely so, but an issue to watch. I hope to find a great trainer in my area to help me out, would like to introduce a new, less nervous dog into our household.
Nic1 says
Hello Trisha — I hope I am not too late to the party.
There is always a lot of discussion on the topic of ‘Deed, not Breed’. While I absolutely agree with this in principle, in reality, it can be a very grey area.
In my experience, I have witnessed some pretty horrifying handling of some of the large guarding breeds who are pet dogs. Usually, it’s when the dog is aroused and the handler is struggling with managing the dog lunging at another dog – they end up shouting, yanking the dog around, hitting it around the face etc. And it is testament to these dogs amazing self-control that they have not resorted to aggression in these circumstances.
I have recently found myself considering the appropriateness of specific breeds as pets. Particularly the guarding breeds. Why do some people decide to choose large dogs with aloof temperaments who require very astute, experienced handling? In a world where there are increasingly more people and dogs, don’t we require pets with temperaments to reflect an ease of sociability? It’s a controversial subject but anyone can own a dog, regardless of knowledge and experience. Yet an Akita, simply due to the laws of physics, would be much more difficult to manage when fully aroused than a Chihuahua. Both these breeds of dog have had reputations as being ‘aggressive’, but practically speaking, one would be considerably more dangerous when fully aroused and charging than the other simply due to it’s size and weight.
The media always like to pick up on aggressive dog stories of course – the comments by the public are usually extremely polarised and regrettably reflect the lack of awareness of canine behaviour at large. My point is that in reality it is much more difficult to fend off a fully aroused attacking Yorkshire Terrier than an Akita. So isn’t it more a case of size and temperament as opposed to actual breed with regard to the fallout of predatory or aggressive behaviour? A charging big dog can also do a lot of damage even without using his teeth. Some dog breeds may simply make better pets than others, but this definitely depends on the knowledge and the experience of the owner.
To put this in context though, it never ceases to amaze me that these wonderful animals we love and admire so much who walk around with a mouth full of knife equivalents very rarely resort to using them….regardless of breed.
Nic1 says
Oops! Typo error – 3rd para. Should read ‘much more difficult to fend off an Akita than a Yorkshire Terrier’!
But then again on reflection, my aunt’s Yorkie was an absolute terror and perhaps this is correct when it comes to Peppy! 🙂
Beth with the Corgis says
I agree that I would enjoy a deed/breed discussion, though for some reason those conversations tend to get difficult.
Here’s the strange thing: get a group of informed dog-lovers in one spot and they will talk about how their 6-week old pointers were pointing butterflies, how herdy their Aussie is (despite having never been trained), how tactile their lap dog is, how good a ratter their terrier is…. but even mention that perhaps a pit bull is more inclined to be dog-aggressive than your average fox hound and watch the place go silent (despite the fact that many pits are sadly still bred for dog-fighting while the fox hound was selected to hunt in large packs and be peaceful with its fellow dogs).
I had a greyhound rescue cheerily tell me that most greyhounds are good with cats. That is a serious disservice to future adopters and their cats, and have heard more than one story of a greyhound owner coming home to find their dog snoozing peacefully after dispactching the family cat who decided just today that a game of tag would be fun.
I dunno, in some circles mentioning any breed trait than can be at all viewed as undesireable as possibly having an inborn tendency has become the moral equivalent of racism. I just don’t get it.
Nicola says
@Beth
I agree Beth – it’s the elephant in the room isn’t it? Which is strange considering that human beings perpetuated the breeds that we take home today as pets or working dogs. Dog breeding is eugenics and one could argue a moral case against that too. But selective breeding in dogs is sensible when undertaken with applied scientific understanding; taking the welfare of the animal into consideration. i.e.Health and temperament.
If we really do take the future welfare of Canis familiaris in the 21st century seriously, then surely everything should be up for discussion. Especially temperamental suitability and the importance of breeding for good health and not looks. There are plenty of experienced, knowledgable and amazing people who raise wonderful working dogs as pets. But equally, there are some people who really love their dogs but simply don’t or can’t ‘think dog’ to train, socialise and exercise them appropriately. It seems like common sense that some dog breeds make better pets than others, simply because they are easier to manage, train and are physically healthier. I think the real issue is that people assume that a discussion of this nature entails banning breeds. Really, what it ultimately entails is much more responsible breeding is required.
Beth with the Corgis says
@Nicola, exactly. I am 100% against breed bans for so many reasons. But I also flinch at the campaigns of some (not all or even most, but some are high-profile) rescue groups to paint dogs as all being the same, as if breed makes no difference.
I recently returned a Husky to a family after she wandered away from their fenced yard for the thousandth time. They thanked me in a frustrated way and mentioned that they were trying to find a new home for her; she got loose a lot, you see, and they were a busy family with young kids who really wanted a dog they could just let out in their yard with its three-foot fence to play with the kids and not worry. And I thought “And no one told you that Huskies roam? In this day, with the internet making info so easy to come by, you never even checked into it?”
The couple dog parks we have around here are frequented by bully breeds and we won’t go unless they are mostly deserted because my girl is not always adept at the art of canine communication. And therefore I don’t want her playing with a very large terrier whose lines may recently include dogs who were selected to be game in a fight; if there IS a fight (which can happen with any dog) I would prefer to take my chances with a dog that’s mostly bluster and noise. We were charged once by a pit bull who slipped his harness (he was being walked by a young adolescent boy) for the express purpose of attacking my dog, who was at least 20 feet away at the time. He immediately went for the back of Jack’s neck (the kill bite). Thankfully he misjudged the size of my dog (Corgis have huge necks for their size— 14 inches on a foot-tall dog) and lost his bite, but he came in a second and a third and fourth time before my husbands yelling and foot swinging sent him away.
We live by a very busy park. We meet hundreds of dogs a year and yes we’ve been charged before. But never have I seen a dog whose FIRST reaction was to go for a kill bite, with no provocation whatsoever. And my Jack is so good with other dogs that I frequently use him to help people socialize their fearful or reactive dogs; other dogs like him, he gives off no vibes and he looks away from (and moves away from) dog-aggressive dogs when he spots them. He was not sending off any challenging signals.
Beth with the Corgis says
Whoops, I forgot to include my point. My point is that there is no such thing as a bad breed, but there are breeds that are terrible for the situation they are being put in, and it’s a shame that while we are mostly happy to point out that a border collie is a bad choice for someone who wants a dog to come home and watch tv with every night after a 15 minute walk, and a bulldog is a bad choice for someone who wants a jogging partner, we are disinclined to say that a pittie is a bad choice for someone who wants a dog park dog, or a greyhound a bad choice for someone who shares a home with 3 cats or a houseful of loose rabbits. I know of someone who saw a puppy killed at a dog park by a greyhound. The poor greyhound owner was horrified that her sweet dog did such a thing and the rescue never told her (according to the version of the story I heard) that greyhounds can switch to prey drive with a small running dog. It’s not the dog’s fault. But people should really know what they are likely to see in this day and age when dogs are expected by so many to be such social butterflies.
liz says
One brief take on one aspect of the questions of Beth and Nicola, said in a whisper: it’s heartbreaking situation to experience firsthand. That is, as an animal lover seeing the extent of the position pit bulls are in, it is a struggle -for me at least- to now have a removed, logical conversation without the pull of heartbreak. Before I saw the whole situation I didn’t get it either. Whenever that happens in the dog world I feel like Tom Hanks in the movie Big. (Odd reference but true.) Hanks, playing a kid trapped in a man’s body, is at a meeting full of proper business executives who are wrapped up in the intricacies of a project, when Hanks interjects, “I don’t get it…” Blank stares follow, but it turns out that his innocence eventually allows for brilliance, realization, and successful outcome… I say this because I think it illustrates the importance of hearing a variety of voices from different perspectives, but at the same time encourages us to look at that strange place of not understanding an issue. Weird movie references and emotions aside, is seems that there simply aren’t good solutions. I suppose this is all the more reason to have conversations about it, provided they remain graceful and poised 🙂 (smile with occasional down-turned corners to indicate conflicting emotion)
Rebecca Rice says
While I understand the frustration about talking about breed behaviors, it’s not a simple issue, especially with aggression. A lot of people, especially ones without dogs, don’t get that a dog that kills cats doesn’t necessarily kill other dogs, and the fact that a dog that will happily fight another dog to the death doesn’t necessarily mean that it will ever bite a human. So the pittie owners do ave a hard time acknowledging that the breed is dog aggressive, because people automatically jump to “oh my god, it’s going to kill my children! destroy it!”. And the unfortunate situation there is that breeds like the Jack Russell are even more dog aggressive than pits, and very few people think anything about turning them loose in a dog park.
And, I work with a greyhound rescue, and have rescued greyhounds. A vast number of them, probably around 50%, are perfectly fine with cats. Mine live with two, and I have had a whole lot more issues with the little rat terrier (a stray that I adopted after she followed me home) and the cats than I ever did with the hounds. There’s probably another 25% that are ok with their cats, in their home, but that will cheerfully attack any cat they see outside. A great many racing greyhounds don’t actually have much prey drive. My first, who ran in 164 races, didn’t have any drive towards rabbits, squirrels, cats, etc. She’d lie in the yard with a squirrel two feet away from her and not care, and just looked quizzically at rabbits that bolted out from hiding in front of her. But let an empty plastic bag go flying by in the breeze, and she would immediately go chase it!
Which is the other problem with breed tendencies: they are tendencies, not law. So use them as a guide, but don’t be disappointed if your dog didn’t read the manual.
Kim says
I would like to see a discussion of dog-dog aggression as dogs age. The dogs I have had have all played nicely with other dogs as puppies, but despite this at some age they decide they don’t like interacting with strange dogs. With some of my dogs this has happened as they reached maturity, but sometimes they are middle aged before it happens. These are all dogs that get opportunities to interact with dogs belonging to my friends, and regularly get out to dog competitions and classes. So, why does this happen, what can we do to prevent it from happening, or is this just a natural stage of development in some dogs?
Beth with the Corgis says
Rebecca, it’s funny you say that about JRT’s because most of the people I know who own any little terriers know they can be a handful with other dogs. My aunt has had as many as two at a time for years. She won’t have three because she has seen cases where two or more will decide to gang up on a housemate for some minor reason and seriously injure or kill it. And when she did have two, she would not leave them loose together if no one was around to supervise.
You make some good points and I think it’s up to experienced dog people to explain that prey drive towards cats does not translate to being bad with kids, for instance, but it’s important to respect the prey drive. Ditto for dog-dog aggression; it’s only recently that dog parks and dog play dates have become common and it’s up to the people who breed and do rescue and love the dogs to point out that while every dog is an individual, some are more LIKELY to be suited to dog parks than others, and a pittie that was great at the dog park at 14 months might very well not be so great at 26 months, for instance (and the size and gameness need to be respected).
And sure you might get a beagle who has little interest in using his nose, but if you want a rabbit dog you are best off starting with a beagle rather than a Corgi….
Rose C says
@Kim
I’ve learned these from reading books and attending/watching seminars: A dog’s behavior is influenced by several factors: genetics (breed, temperament), the breeding dog’s emotional state during pregnancy (e.g., stress has a hormonal effect that gets passed on to the unborn puppies), the dog’s experiences as a puppy, and the environment it is in at any given time. Dogs would have their breed tendencies, some would exhibit the behavior and some won’t, while some (given the right ‘recipe’ of nature and nurture) may exhibit it even if later in life. Some dogs will exhibit mild signs of an unwated behavior (breed-related or not) and if not corrected and managed and if they remain in an environment that nurtures or reinforces that behavioral tendency, the display of that behavior becomes more apparent. If a dog exhibits even mild signs of certain unwated behaviors early in life (e.g., possessiveness), there is always a probability that it will display such behavior later. From what I understand, a dog’s behavior can be affected by anything within its current environment. We have to continually manage a dog’s environment throughout its lifetime so it doesn’t exhibit inherent or learned unwanted behavior, be it breed-related or not.
Rebecca Rice says
You know, we could do a lot with breed biases! There is the bias against the bully breeds, because they are perceived to be dangerous. But there is an equally dangerous bias in assuming that some breeds are “good dogs”. My brother’s kids were attacked by a lab that jumped a fence, and my little rat terrier got attacked by a golden when the owner lost control of the leash. (And no, it did NOT want to play. The few seconds it took the owner to get the dog under control were the scariest I have been in, and the ones where I felt most helpless. Thankfully ratties are both quick and agile, and Pixie did a good job of dodging the attacks the golden was making.) Both of those are breeds that are known for being “friendly family dogs”, so I think that owners can be complacent about signs of aggression in those breeds that they wouldn’t accept in a rottie, pit, or GSD.
And, putting aside aggression, I sometimes wonder if people are more disappointed, upset, etc. with a dog that doesn’t live up to the breed standard than they are with a mutt who acts the same way. If you have a lab that hates the water, or a border collie that has no desire to herd anything, do people take that as more of an affront, especially if they have carefully researched breeds to get a certain type of dog? Do the owners try and force them to the mold, or do they accept the dog for what it is? While if they had a mutt, and it didn’t like X, I think that the more likely response would be to shrug and go on with life. But I could be wrong.
Beth with the Corgis says
“And, putting aside aggression, I sometimes wonder if people are more disappointed, upset, etc. with a dog that doesn’t live up to the breed standard than they are with a mutt who acts the same way. If you have a lab that hates the water, or a border collie that has no desire to herd anything, do people take that as more of an affront, especially if they have carefully researched breeds to get a certain type of dog? Do the owners try and force them to the mold, or do they accept the dog for what it is?”
Well, if I bought a puppy from hunting lines to be a duck dog and it hates the water, yes I’d be pretty darned disappointed. Plenty of people still get dogs to work, participate in certain activities, for hiking buddies, frisbee dogs, etc. If you buy a dog from a particular background specifically to engage in a particular task and the dog does not, that is a major impact on your life and plans. If you pick up a puppy or a rescue dog primarily because you want a dog (opposed to wanting a dog who does something) and are willing to rearrange your life to accommodate because you just really want a friend and companion, of course your expectation will be different. If I get a lab because we spend every weekend at the lake and I want a swimming partner and the dog hates the water, that does not just change my relationship with my dog, it changes how I spend my whole weekend, if you see what I mean.
Nic1 says
@Rebecca
great points regarding breed bias. And couldn’t agree more about how we cab have unrealistic expectations of certain ‘good’ breeds. Particularly some off leash gun dogs/retrievers whose sometimes rude and uninvited charging is interpreted by some of their owners as a friendly, playful approach. My policy is to avoid all off leash, strange dogs due to my own dog’s lack of tolerance and manners with space invaders, mainly because of inappropriate experiences with owners of some of these breeds. The main reason I adopted a mutt was because I figured that I would have no breed bias. I would have to accept the dog for who she was. To my mind, some Heinz 57 mutt has to have better genetic variation than a pure pedigree, but of course this is a gamble as one has no idea how the physical health and temperament will manifest. My expectations of her were therefore nothing to do with assumed behaviour traits based on her breeding as I simply didn’t know anything about her.
@Rose C
Great point.
Environmental management is key to setting our dogs for success and not failure. I would say my true understanding of how powerful that is has been the single most important factor in me understanding my own dog’s individual needs.
Beth with the Corgis says
Hmmm. Interesting that the term “breed bias” has become interchangeable with “breed tendencies.” I tend to see a pattern in who uses which, but is it bias to say that beagles are likely to chase rabbits? It seems the word “bias” itself carries a bias, if you see what I mean.
If I say “Well, if you want a great herding dog, your best chance is to start out with a border collie” that’s actually a fact; there are border collies that are awful on sheep, and non-collies who are herdy, but your best chance is to start with the b.c. and that’s what selective breeding does.
The funny thing is, I spend a fair amount of time talking people OUT of (and it’s easy) getting Corgis, because I adore them, they are my passion and I wouldn’t want another breed, but they are also inappropriate for a lot of families. So they are funny and have a sense of humor, love life, are energetic and smart and bond intensely with their people. But they are also pushy and bark a lot and shed a ton, and really need exercise every day, and are manipulative and willful.
Those are breed traits; not every Corgi has them but most Corgis do and one who does not will be unlikely to be used in breeding programs.
But is that bias? After all, Corgis are selected for those traits, and those same traits that make them a joy for ME will make them a nightmare for someone who really wants to come home to a clean house after a long day and cuddle on the couch all night with the dog after a quick ten-minute walk.
I see countless posts calling labs and some other gun dogs “rude” but in fact what they have is a bred-for tolerance to close physical contact, especially around the face; when you bring in winged ducks you can’t drop them just because they flap their wings on your head. And if you back away from cold waves, or don’t like the close quarters of boat or blind, you are not much good as a duck dog.
This is a breed trait and that trait ALSO means that labs mostly don’t mind being crowded, and so they don’t mind crowding. It means they can be a bad match for dogs who are not comfortable with someone in their space, but that does not mean they are “rude” because with each other, they are tolerant of being bounced on (in general) and stepped on; it’s why they are a good choice with kids.
Trisha gives an example in her book of teaching dogs to leave guests alone by patting them on the head, because dogs don’t like that. I laughed because I grew up with retrievers and they all smile and relax their ears when you pat them hard on the head; they tend to actually like it.
How comfortable you are with someone in your space varies from dog to dog, as it does from person to person. But just like some human cultures are very touchy and step into what we call personal space, so are some dog cultures very comfy with close contact. Saying that the dog who needs space is correct and the dog who barges in is “rude” is like saying the Englishman with his polite shake is polite and the Italian with his hug and kiss is rude. It’s just a different doggie sub-culture.
But if we can’t talk about breed traits without calling it “bias” then we are down that slippery slope of not giving people the info they need to make good choices about which breed of dog to get.
Beth with the Corgis says
As I frequently do, I started down a thought path that I did not finish. 🙂
My point about talking people out of a breed is this:
If I say a border collie is a bad choice for most families because they tend to have too much physical and mental energy for the average family without a sheep farm, and because they tend to be very sensitive and find hectic homes stressful, I’m being a smart advocate for border collies.
But if I say a pit bull is a bad choice for most suburban families because they are too powerful, and can be iffy with other dogs and in our modern society, we expect family dogs to be reliable with other dogs, then I am exhibiting anti-pit bull bias.
That to me seems like a double standard, and it’s a double standard based on the fact that most border collies come from breeders (they may end up in rescue, but are intentionally bred by breeders to begin with) but most pits and pit mixes are coming from rescue, with unclear backgrounds.
Being honest about a dog’s needs and strengths and shortcomings can’t be seen as advocating for dogs if we are talking about bred dogs, and anti-breed bias if we are talking about rescue. That’s unfair to the dogs and their people.
Rose C says
@Rebecca and Beth
I agree with you about people having unmet expectations with their dogs, probably even more for people who went above and beyond looking for a good breeder with good breed lines, maybe were on a waiting list for some time, maybe even spent more money to get the one ‘perfect’ puppy. If I am that person who ended up with a dog that didn’t perform the task I was hoping it would, it will be hard not to be disappointed.
But . . .
Let me share my experience. One of the reasons I got a cockapoo is because of their low-shed characteristic. It was a factor very important to me. I got my first cockapoo (Ludy) and my house was immaculate (I’m using the word relatively). Later, I wanted to get a canine companion for her so I went back to the same cockapoo breeder and saw this puppy (Dani) who didn’t have the typical cockapoo coat/hair. So I thought she took more of the spaniel side, prepared myself to see some light shedding but since she is partly poodle, she can’t possibly shed that much. Ludy and I picked her up from the breeder, got home late in the evening, let the two dogs interact more then we all went to sleep. Come morning when the sun shone, there was dog hair all over the living room floor. OMG. I started doubting the breeder that Dani remotely even have any poodle in her, I started thinking she probably came from a different litter. I called the breeder to inquire again about Dani’s parents and the breeder had offered to take the dog back if I was not happy with it. I really didn’t feel like driving 187 miles back to Indiana but if I really decided not to keep the puppy, I will choose to drive back and return her to the breeder. I’ll be honest, though, and say that I looked online at two reputable no-kennel adoption centers just to check my other options. Please don’t get me wrong, the reason I was looking at options where I can bring her was that I didn’t want her to stay with me if I will end up being frustrated in the long run with her coat shedding. I knew it will affect how I relate to her. I thought she’s be better off in a home that wouldn’t mind her shedding at all. But I was also thinking I don’t really judge people by their physical features so why was I ‘judging’ this dog by hers? Anyway, the first week when I was trying to decide whether to keep her or not, I was doing her basic training and spending time playing with the two dogs while searching online for de-shedding tools and shampoos and inquring from our dog groomer what they can suggest. Long story short (yeah, right), I was impressed at how easily trainable she was and how she seemed more ‘attuned’ to me than how my other dog was. I know it is not often that a person would come across a dog like that so I decided I’ll deal with the shedding and find ways to minimize it or just get used to it. One year and 9 months later, I’d say she is the best dog I’ve ever had. I love my two dogs equally but Dani (the shedding one) is who I’d consider my dog soulmate. She is more responsive to me, I always catch her looking at me as if always ‘reading’ me, and she always checks back with me even if she wanders afar. When I look back, I can’t believe I even considered letting her go and how much I would have missed out on.
I gained so much perspective from this experience, of how dogs can be seen by some as commodities. That if they didn’t perform ‘as advertised’, some people may choose to return the dog, maybe give it away to the first person who would take it, maybe some would toss the issue in the back and ignore it, some would keep imposing activities per their expectations of the breed, and some will choose to accept and work with the dog that they have, discover its strengths and interests, and find compromise with some aspects of their lifestyle.
Nic1 says
One can be academic when debating about the interpretation of behaviour related to breeding and it is an interesting subject on forums and to chat about. But when it comes to safety around strange dogs and people and being pragmatic, one has to have personal boundaries regardless of breed. It’s why we teach a dog manners in the first place.
Beth with the Corgis says
Nic1, I agree with what you are saying completely. I was interested in pointing out the semantics, though, and how they color our thoughts.
My Maddie does not like dogs to bounce up to her. But when met with a young boxer, I don’t think “She does not like the boxer because he’s rude.” I think “Maddie doesn’t like being bounced, so we will hold off on greeting until the situation is calmer.”
Jack, on the other hand, will modify his greeting to match the dog and does not need all the niceties. This is true of most confident dogs. Similarly, some people are put off by anything other than a formal “How do you do?” greeting, while others are jocular back-slappers. And still others can cheerfully modify their personality to mirror their audience.
Nic1 says
@Beth
I love reading your comments Beth. You are so knowledgeable and it is fascinating to read all about your experience. I really am a novice when it comes to dogs – I have had my rescue less then three years and it has been a steep learning curve with regard to modifying her behaviour. But thanks to experts such as Trisha and contributors such as yourself on this blog, it has helped get me on the right path with training methods and behaviour modification. I think partly the reason that I perhaps inappropriately point the finger for rudeness at retriever owners ( owners, not the dogs!) is because they are so popular as pets, for good reason, and there are a lot of them about and a lot of my experiences have therefore been with this type of dog. However as you point out with the differences with your dogs, it is the subtle differences in personalities that require us to have some control over greetings with strange dogs. Drawing on my experience to date, some owners seem to think that greetings can be on their dog’s terms. I like to have control of the situation when greeting new dogs due to my own dog’s nature, I don’t want the dogs calling the shots!
Incidentally, the only other person who has Corgis that I know of is Queen Elizabeth II! She has a pack of pet Corgis whose breeding line goes back to her first Corgi, Susan, whom she had when she was a girl. I think she also has a couple of Dorgis too. Great discussion as always
Beth with the Corgis says
And Nic1, I totally 100% agree that it’s up to the OWNERS to control greeting behavior! One of mine has the unfortunate tendency to charge right up to another dog’s face and bark, which is obviously not tolerated by a lot of otherwise friendly dogs, and so we generally don’t allow her to do so until we’ve had time to assess the situation.
It is absolutely a bad idea to just let your dog charge up to another leashed dog (dog parks are another matter and you should not be there of course unless your dog is quite tolerant of a wide range of behaviors). But yes lots of people DO let their dogs barge in, and it’s very discouraging for people who have dogs who prefer to be left alone or to have time to assess the situation before saying “hi.” And of course since labs and goldens are so popular, and are generally good for novice owners and so therefore are often owned by them, you will see a lot more of that from those dogs and their people, just based on numbers.
It was a big switch for me to go from the gun dogs my family always had to my own little herders. Totally different type of dog! I think we are all novices whenever we get a new dog. 🙂 They have so much to teach us and I know I often feel like I’m one step behind the learning curve compared to the dogs….
Rose C says
“We are all novices whenever we get a new dog” is right. Knowing about a dog breed’s traits is only the starting point. Great to know, but not the be-all and end-all of it. Just like people, each dog is an individual. It is quite apparent that people in general still hasn’t fully grasped this fact.
Regarding greetings: Using common sense and our gut feeling when deciding whether or not and when to approach a particular dog (regardless of the breed) is very essential. On our walks, it is always a great idea to ask the other dog owner if it is okay to say ‘hi’ (that is, if it is okay for us to approach). Many dog owners do not ask me, but I always ask them. I figure out dog owners (hopefully) know their dogs best and hopefully if they are aware of any issues with their dogs during dog-dog greetings, they would maintain control of how their dog approaches or maybe even tell me that we cannot say ‘hi’ to them. Some may not ask me but I can tell they are maintaining control of their dog. But then there are some who would walk their dogs all the while chatting on their cell phone, oblivious to what’s going on around them, let alone what their dog is doing. Another thing too is that during walks, when dogs are on leash, they might react differently as they would when they are off leash, like in the dog park or beach. Also, there are the dog owners who keep pulling their dog’s leash back creating a different state in their dog while all that the dog is trying to do is meet and greet the canine way.
Rose C says
@Christine C
I found information on dogs rolling on icky things. It’s called scent rolling and is done by their wolf ancestors as well. Christine, do a Bing search on scent rolling and you’ll find lots of info. Here’s one site:
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/scent-rolling-why-do-dogs-like-rolling-in-smelly-scents