Several readers have asked about the new product called “Dognition” that promises (quoting from the website), “You’ll learn your dog’s cognitive style by playing fun, science-based games — an experience that gives you the insight you need to make the most of your relationship with your best friend.” I was curious myself, given that the force behind the product is the work of scientist Brian Hare, whose relevant claim to fame is his research on the ability of dogs to inherently understand a person’s pointing gesture. I’ve argued that this claim needs more research, as does his suggestion that the long-standing relationship between dogs and people has resulted in the evolution of special communicatory skills in dogs (especially as regards to pointing). However, I love that his work has helped to energize research on canine cognition. (If you want to read more about whether dogs can inherently understand the pointing gesture of a person, see Do Dogs Inherently Understand Pointing Gestures? and An Update on Pointing Gestures and Dogs.)
Dr. Hare has since come out with a new book, The Genius of Dogs: How Dogs are Smarter Than You Think, and a product called the Dognition Assessment Toolkit. I haven’t read the book yet, but was intrigued by a set of games he has developed that are supposed to increase one’s understanding of their dog’s personality and cognition style. The perfect cabin-fever reliever perhaps? Even better, the website explains that all the results will be aggregated and used as an example of “citizen science.” It says: “By gathering this data we can begin to understand more about all dogs, much more quickly and on a broader scale than if scientists had to conduct this research themselves.”
I signed up Willie, Tootsie and Katie’s dog Leo at $59 each, passing up the $129 offer of the toolkit + one year’s annual membership. Katie and I began the games last week, and finally finished with Tootsie yesterday. I say “finally” with intention: I want to tell you that the games were incredibly fun and that I learned oodles that I didn’t know about Tootsie. Alas, here’s the bottom line: Sometimes the “games” were fun, sometimes they were tedious, sometimes they were mildly aversive (more on that later) and I’m afraid I didn’t learn much about Tootsie that I didn’t know. I had planned to finish the games with Willie today, but realized that rather than looking forward to it I was… what’s the right word? “Dreading it” is too strong, but it felt like a great burden that I would have to slog through. Then I realized that I didn’t need to finish the games with Willie at all; I already had learned what I needed to know to make my own evaluation of the project for this post, and didn’t have any expectation that I would learn anything especially useful about Willie that I didn’t know before. Before I continue, let me be absolutely clear: Others might find the exercises great fun and the eventual evaluation extremely useful in improving their relationship with their dog. But all I can give you is my honest assessment of my own experience, for whatever it is worth.
Here is a bit about how the program works: There are five categories of games, labeled Empathy, Communication, Cunning, Memory and Reasoning. Before playing the games one fills out an extensive questionnaire. I’d give it kudos for being thorough, but many of the questions should be answered with “I don’t know” (which, good for them, is always an option). For example, you are asked if your dog “understands” the cue to sit. Without testing Tootsie a la Ian Dunbar’s game, and asking her to sit while she is already sitting or while lying down, I can’t answer that question. I can answer if she does sit when asked, but that is an entirely different question (which was also asked, I should note). However, many of the questions were easy to answer, like “Is Tootsie friendly to other dogs?” One could answer “All the time, Some of the time,” etc. I choose “Some of the time” for Willie often, given that his behavior is so context dependent. After the questionnaire, you begin the games. With a few important exceptions noted below, they are explained very clearly. If you decide to play, be aware that you’ll need someone to help with all of them, a fact not made clear before you begin and that threw me off when I first tried to get started by myself one afternoon.
Many of the games involve putting a treat on the ground on one side of you or the other. The treats might be on the ground, inside a cup or under a piece of paper. Your dog has a variety of ways, over the course of the tests, to choose the “correct” side, based on your pointing toward it, showing your dog that it is in the cup before turning the cup over, etc. Each of the games that require a dog to “choose sides” do a good job of establishing first whether your dog has a side preference. (Both Willie and Tootsie more often went to my right side (their left), which fits with the knowledge that most dogs are “left pawed.”) Katie and I did quite a few of the games together, either with her as the helper for me and Tootsie, or vice versa for her and Leo. The biggest snag that we ran into was a discrepancy between what the dog did and how we were asked to record it.
Here’s an example: You define “left and right” with 3 sticky notes, one directly in front of you, one each to the right and left of you on the floor. With a helper holding your dog, you might point to a cup with a treat hidden underneath it on your right side. The instructions tell you to score your dog as “retrieving the treat” if you pointed to the treat on your right, and your dog went between the sticky notes in front and to the right of you. Thus, passing between 2 sticky notes on the ground on the same side as the treat meant your dog had “retrieved the treat.” (The word ‘retrieve’ was confusing to us…’chosen’ or ‘focused on’ would be more helpful.) But here is what sometimes happened: Imagine I placed 2 cups on the floor on either side of me, one with a treat, and pointed to the one with the treat while Tootsie watched me from about 6 feet away. Let’s say that the cup with the treat was on my right. Tootsie was released and wandered through the sticky notes to my right, but paid no attention at all to the cup with the treat underneath, and passed behind me to vigorously sniff at the (empty) cup on the left. Based on the instructions we were told to score that as “retrieved the treat,” but her behavior indicated she was focused on the cup without anything in it.
Other games require you to say something to your dog and then stay stock still and silent for up to two and a half minutes. This was the part that Katie and I found a bit tedious. Standing silent and motionless while looking directly at your dog is so unnatural I found it unnerving. (In one test you stand still and silent for 1 minute, then 1.5 minutes, then 2 minutes and then 2.5 minutes. Katie and I were both ridiculously relieved when it was over.) One could argue that science is not about having fun, but is about designing and conducting good experiments. However, anyone who has taken Experimental Psychology 101 knows that the behavior of the experimenter must be carefully controlled in any study. For the results to be lumped together and analyzed, either only one carefully trained “handler” would have to be the one cuing the dogs in exactly the same circumstances, or a few well-trained handlers would have to undergo extensive training and testing to ensure that their behavior was consistent. Thus, it is hard to know what the results of an aggregate of hundreds or thousands of dog owners doing these tests in their own homes would actually mean.
The mildly aversive section occurred when I was to put a treat on the ground, say “No” or “Leave It,” and then wait for an entire (endless) 90 seconds without moving or speaking. This was not a problem with Tootsie, who doesn’t know a Leave it cue, and who trotted toward the treat and gobbled it up. However, Willie does know Leave It, and I wish I had a video of his face staring at mine for 90 seconds after being told Leave It when I placed a dried turkey heart on the ground. That 90 seconds lasted at least an hour… he looked so confused and unsure after about 10 seconds that I could barely maintain my stance. Next you are instructed to put the treat down, say Leave It and turn around so that your back if facing your dog. Willie waited 1 minute and 17 seconds and then padded over and ate the treat. Next you are to hold your hands over your eyes, and this time he waited less than 20 seconds. I have never been so thankful to have a dog disobey a Leave It in my life. Both Katie and I (she acting as recorder and dog holder if needed) darn near cheered when Willie took the treat, so that we didn’t have to wait another endless 90 seconds. I suspect that reading this one could argue: “Really Trisha. Ninety seconds? Seriouslyy, how long is that really?” Answer: When you have to stand still and stare at your dog for that period of time, it feels much longer than one might think.) (Cautionary note: After those games I worked on Leave It with Willie, reinforcing him for avoiding a treat on the ground for 2, 4 and 6 seconds; the games being the perfect way to ruin a well-trained cue if you don’t do some clean up work afterward.)
The results? We finished all the games with Tootsie (3 of 5 game categories are done with Willie) and immediately got her results. Tootsie was classified as a “Stargazer,” whose “unique genius lies in the mix of strategies that she uses to approach daily life… She certainly has a wild, wolf-like side that is especially useful in the environment of the rugged individual.” Labeling Tootsie, the 7-years-in-a-puppy-mill Cavalier King Charles Spaniel who wants nothing more than to eat (anything) and lie in one’s lap, as “wolf-like,” leaves me close to speechless. Her “empathy” scores were “off the charts,” even though it was Willie who yawned after I did and not Tootsie, yawning after seeing another yawn being indicative of empathy). Tootsie’s results also indicated that she is “highly collaborative;” I’m guessing that is because she did indeed focus on the food I pointed to in some of the tests. But categorizing her as such is a stretch, I’d argue. Tootsie is pretty much all about food, while Willie is often called “Trisha’s mood ring.” Willie appears to care deeply about how I am feeling, while Tootsie appears to care deeply about how quickly she can get the food out of my pocket. Of course, I could be wrong about my assessment and the tests could be more accurate, but I wouldn’t bet the farm on it.
The one result that I found surprising, and thus interesting, was that Tootsie did indeed focus more on the treats on the ground if I pointed to them (but not when the treat wasn’t visible ). Willie, who has learned exactly what an outstretched and pointing arm means, appeared to pay no attention. I suspect that pointing to something in the distance, with one’s arm almost horizontal to the ground, is a very different signal than pointing almost straight down toward the ground, with one’s arm just a few inches away from the torso. That got me thinking that perhaps what we call “pointing” could actually involve several different visual signals that should be considered independently. (And one more pointing note, skip if all this pointing stuff is tiresome to you!: Dognition actually has you both point AND turn your head toward and look at the object in question. Thus, pointing, and gaze are confounded here. That’s a technical point, but an important one to those who study animal communication.)
At one point the evaluation interprets Tootsie’s inconsistent responses in a series of tests as “switching back and forth” between strategies, a behavior labeled as “impressive flexibility.” Another way to label this is “having no strategy at all.” I’m just saying. Reading their evaluation of Tootsie reminded me of schools in which all the students get A’s and blue ribbons because, well, they are there. On the plus side, it appears that the designers of Dognition are working hard to clarify that there are no ‘right or wrong’ answers, and that every dog is using a different kind of cognition strategy to make their way in the world. That’s important, and I credit them for it. This is not about whether your dog is a Good Dog or a Not So Good Dog, but about finding what’s going on between those furry ears of hers. Learning more about your dog is a wonderful thing; however my guess is that most people who are motivated to spend the money to play these games with their dog, and get through all 2.5 to 3 hours required, already know more about their dog than a product like this can teach them.
A few notes if you decide you want to play: 1) Don’t even think about doing this all at once. You and your dog will be toast if you do. The website is well designed to allow you to pause, and wisely encourages you to do so. We did Tootsie’s tests over 4 different sessions. 2) Round up an assistant before you start, you absolutely have to have one for almost all of the games. 3) You need to be right beside your computer to play. Laptops and iPads work great. 4) Take your own notes about your dog’s responses. You don’t get a summary of what they did (“followed point 2 out of 6 times, for example) and I’d love to see the actual data. 5) Careful of the treats: Your dog could end up getting a lot of them. Tootsie basically ate the equivalent of two dinners during the last session, even when she didn’t “get” the treat much of the time.
Have you played it yet? I’d love to hear if you have and what you thought of it. I truly wanted to write a positive review myself; the Advisory Board on this project reads like a Who’s Who in canine cognition, including Dr. Juliane Kaminski, Dr Richard Wrangham, Dr. Adam Miklosi, Dr. Laurie Santos and Dr. Josep Call as well as Dr. Brian Hare. I know some of these scientists and not only admire their work, I like them personally. But good science is about evaluating the facts, and it would be disingenuous of me not to be honest in my assessment. Let me know what you think.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm. We’re melting! Finally finally finally the spring thaw has begun. It may be under freezing at night, and there is still plenty of snow and ice on the ground, but there are also patches of bare, spongy ground, and the air is rich with the songs of Redwing Blackbirds and the guttural calls of Sandhill Cranes.
The lambs are due to start dropping any day now, so Jim and I are busy in the barn. We had a lovely, long weekend at a friend’s cabin up north last weekend, and came home refreshed and ready for spring. I’m finishing up my Contemplative Photography course, which I’ve absolutely adored. Here are two of my photos for the the class, a Beech leaf and a scene from up the hill, just yesterday. Enjoy.
Marcia in NorCal says
Photographs — GORGEOUS. Both of them. The leaf handles the lighting exquisitely, and the shot of Willie and His Sheep … PERFECT view of a working BC.
The cognition games … I too was tempted to try these several months ago. There was something about the way some of the marketing verbiage was written that made me suspicious; having now read that Tootsie was evaluated as “wolf-like” I’m glad I hesitated. I suspect you are right on one thing, Trisha: there’s likely value for some dog owners here, but the folks who are seriously interested in understanding their dog(s) will like have already learned whatever it is the games might tell them. It will be interesting to read the results of the first year or so of data collected (and how WILL they correct for weaknesses in the methodology?).
Joan Krochko says
I’m surprised there was a cost involved in this exercise. The participants are providing data and the scientist involved should be grateful for that. Perhaps the study could not be funded otherwise?
Frances says
Thank you for this excellent review – I got as far as the price, had a think about cost/benefit, and decided the money would be better used for petrol to take my dogs on interesting walks! The idea of games being aversive is particularly interesting – Sophy gets very worried if she thinks she has not got something “right”, although I’ve never used aversive methods with her. She seems to have a strong innate sense of The Rules, even when she chooses to ignore them herself – she is the one who tells the cats off for scratching furniture, or Poppy for yapping in the car. If I, who set the rules for games, should suddenly and – to her – arbitrarily change them, I think it would upset her very deeply. Poppy would just keep throwing behaviours until she eventually got the treat – bit like Tootsie, I suspect!
Kat says
I’ve both read the book and signed up to do the games. I found the first part of the book fascinating. Hare argues for something he dubs self-domestication and argues that dogs were not domesticated but domesticated themselves as the friendlier/less fearful/less cautious dogs were able to live closer and closer to people and profit from human leavings. I’m not entirely convinced by his argument that “this is the way it happened” but I was very intrigued and fascinated by the argument and data he provided to back it up. I’d recommend the first part of the book without hesitation. The second part was a bunch of random pieces some referencing websites I personally consider crap. It was as if the contract with his publisher required a certain number of pages so after he wrote the interesting stuff he just dragged in whatever he could find to make it to the required length. Read until you get to the end of the self-domestication part and stop the second part isn’t worth the time or effort. That’s my feeling on the subject anyway.
As for the games, I have a pretty good feel for Ranger and what makes him tick but I was very intrigued to see what the games might tell me about Finna and what strategies she uses. We haven’t finished the games so I don’t have her profile but I’ve been pleased to discover from my own observations that Finna pays a lot more attention to my cues than I’d thought. In the game of don’t take the treat you describe Finna left the treat for 20 seconds while I was looking at her and took it within two seconds of me turning my back. It’s pretty clear she recognized a difference between when I was watching and when I wasn’t. We don’t use “leave it” since our trainer puts it ‘leave it is too often used as look at that desirable treat and don’t touch it’ we ask Finna for ‘eyes’ meaning look away from the thing I don’t want you to take and focus on me instead–not a very useful cue for the game so I used no which isn’t something she hears often and may actually have no meaning at all for her.
As for the citizen science aspect of it my understanding is that by aggregating the data from the different dogs they hope to identify areas for rigorous science not to use the results themselves as rigorous science.
As a bit of fun–we’re doing the games over a period of weeks–and a chance to learn a little more than about my dogs I’m enjoying it for the most part. Would I recommend it? Let’s say I told a couple of friends whose interests parallel mine to take a look but I haven’t been telling everyone this is the greatest thing since sliced bread.
Gordon Edwards says
I’d argue that pretty much any and all of Brian Hare’s claims “need more research”. But as long as he has people arguing about them (or “discussing them” if one prefers a less negative slant), then I would argue that his mission is accomplished.
Anne says
My take is this: for the average dog owner, this tool is likely to be invaluable. In fact, it seems like it can bring more awareness of how much their dogs actually understand, thus making dogs more valuable to the general public. For many people, intelligence is a virtue. And when people value something, they are much more likely to take good care of it. (the dogs…not the intelligence!)
As for those people who already know their dogs like you do, and probably most everyone who reads this blog, the games may be less useful. Through our daily activities, we most likely already do many of these things unconsciously, so we know our dogs pretty well. Sure, we can learn more about our dogs with the games. There’s always more to learn in life, but the point of the games – further understanding the intelligence of our dogs – doesn’t add much information for those people who already know how intelligent their dogs are – and dogs in general.
Again, for the average dog owner, my sense is these games are wonderful tools that may bring more awareness of the level of consciousness/awareness/intelligence that dogs actually have. And I applaud anyone who has found a way of “educating” the general public with fun games that show people that their dogs are more than just accessories or toys and are genuinely sentient beings with developed feelings and needs. Since intelligence is something humans value, if they think their dogs are intelligent, there’s a greater likelihood that they will treat their dogs better, not leave them so readily at shelters when they move, have a baby, etc…
Sarah says
I’m almost done with the tests for my one-year old shih tzu. I don’t think she would think they are games, but she has been fine with them. Her reactions are about as I predicted, except she could remember where the treat was without any trouble. I wouldn’t have predicted that.
My older shih tzu hasn’t done the tests yet. She isn’t as strongly food motivated, so I’m not sure how that will work. Also, she doesn’t deal with repetition well. I have a feeling she may decide to take a nap in the middle of the memory test.
I’m disappointed to learn that the results don’t include the info about each trial. I would have taken notes if I had known that.
I’ll reserve judgment about dognition until I have finished. I like the idea very much. I think the website is well done and easy to follow. I do wish the tests were more like real games.
Pennie Clayton says
I was very interested to read about these games. I took one look at the website and decided that I (as a previous comment) would be better off doing what I had always done and used the variety of stuff including paper cups/boxes and really CHEAP stuff to entertain my dogs.
I do think it is a bit of a rip off especially if you already know your dogs well, and have knowledge of mental stimulation. Interesting write up
SlimDoggy says
Thanks for the thorough review and feedback on these tools. I’ll be honest – the high cost put me off because I was unsure of what it could really tell me that I didn’t already know. Living day after day with dogs, you get to know them pretty quickly. Glad to know I didn’t waste my money. Not that these tests are necessarily a waste, but might be better suited for folks who just adopted a new dog, or folks who are new dog owners.
Nancy Tanner says
Trisha, thank you for this detailed and honest review of this site. I have been looking at it and listening to some other folks who had more knowledge of it.
I read the book after a review that piqued my curiosity, it would be good to hear your review of it. I imagine you might send it ‘air born’ a few times, maybe more. It kind of, intentionally I think, slaps at the face of trainers/behaviorists that like or use Skinners theories in practice.
All the best, Nancy
About funding says
Re: whether charging was the only way to fund Dognition – not so much.
More that it got venture capital funding (to the tune of millions) because they reckong they’ll make big bucks – thus the book tie-in etc, etc. It is a startup COMPANY. Designed to make a PROFIT.
From Nov. 2012:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2012/11/16/2488732/startup-dognition-promises-to.html
Beth with the Corgis says
Kat, I too have heard of the “self-domesticating” theory and it makes a lot of sense to me; it seems unlikely that there would have been enough wolf pups captured to establish a breeding population, and when I’ve watched documentaries about wolf packs it frequently takes researchers a considerable amount of time to locate the den and pups, even using modern equipment. Wolf territories can be quite large, and I always found it hard to imagine how people would get enough wolves to domesticate to begin with.
The tame fox experiment shows how rapidly appearance changes when you select for one feature (tameness). It stands to reason that within a few generations, wolves who were less timid and found easy pickings at human encampments would take on a different appearance which would make them more acceptable to humans, which would then lead to intentional breeding and even more rapid changes.
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I am not familiar with this particular set of cognition tests. My concern is always that they don’t necessarily measure what they claim to measure. I once performed a set of tests with Jack that were meant to measure intelligence. One had you take a treat, and in plain view put a cup over the top of it and see how quickly the dog figured out how to knock the cup away. I thought it would be a snap for clever Jack, and I confess I was a bit dismayed when he just sat there, staring at us. My husband quickly noted that we had trained him to not touch our things, something I had failed to consider. I replaced the cup with one of his toys and he instantly knocked it aside to get the treat.
In this case, I thought I was measuring his problem-solving skills. What I was measuring instead were his manners (and he is a dog who rigidly follows house rules, once he has decided that they are reasonable).
So in the case of “leave it” and whether the command is followed when your back is turned, that would depend as much on how “leave it” was taught and what the DOG thinks it means as it does on the dogs compliance with the command. If the dog thinks “leave it” means “look at owners face” and the owner’s face vanishes, then the dog’s lack of compliance is not indicating what it would seem to.
However, having not read the book or the tests, I am perhaps going on a false impression.
Beth with the Corgis says
I laughed when I read this: ” Another way to label this is “having no strategy at all.” I’m just saying. Reading their evaluation of Tootsie reminded me of schools in which all the students get A’s and blue ribbons because, well, they are there. ”
I call Jack my thinker and Maddie my happy airhead. Jack acts upon his world and Maddie reacts to it, and her “strategy” is generally trying again the last thing that worked to get her food, if she can recall what that was. She stares so intently at the treats that I don’t even think she knows what she is doing to get them half the time. I have found, interestingly, that she learns best if I stare at the ceiling and give her time to think long and hard about what we were doing the last time I made similar noises and/or gestures. Compare that to Jack, who throws lots of different behaviors at me til there is one that gets a response from me, and then he narrows down his focus to that.
But I suppose if the Dognition results said “Your dog is not that bright and seems to be engaging in random behaviors with no clear focus” they would offend a lot of owners and their sales would suffer. 🙂
Gordon Edwards says
Hmmm. Re-reading what I had written above, I see that I used a version of the term “argue” 3 times in 2 sentences. Maybe I need a cup of hot cocoa and a good book. I can always start “For The Love Of A Dog” over again. That is always good for hitting the reset button. 🙂
Suzanne says
Boy, when you review something you do a thorough job of it, but then I”m not surprised. Dan does the same thing when he reviews the science articles for our Behavior Education Network site each month.
Although I’ve visited the website, I’ve not done the Dognition tests, nor do I intend to. I agree with you Trisha that at least it has people talking and thinking about the cognitive abilities of dogs (although there are others doing that as well).
But it kind of rubs me wrong that people pay a pretty hefty fee for this, he gets data for research and makes money at the same time. Nothing wrong with making money but it just seems kind of double dipping – it almost ought to be the other way around – sort of like the nominal fees they pay undergraduate psychology students (or give them college credits) for being research subjects in faculty projects – what about compensating the dog owners who are investing the time and energy into completing the tests rather than charging them to do it! Just another twist on things.
Thanks for you thorough review! We’ve not had to wait for the BIG THAW in Colorado this year, loving being ‘snowbirds’ in AZ (or seasonal residents to be more politically correct I guess these days!)
revkeo says
I was part of the Beta testing and then got a chance to take it a second time (I know a glutton for punishment) but as a trainer of Service Dogs, some of the testing of gestures etc. was interesting because some of my veterans have to use unique ways of communicating with their dogs because of loss of limbs etc. Both tests held true as far as consistency though they did get tedious. My Service Dog, Arkeo, is rock solid on “leave it” so she just put her head down and snoozed no matter what position I was in. I haven’t had a chance to read the book yet but agree with one comment above that if it makes people talk about it, it is worth it. (BTW if your dog has a really good stay you can do the test without a partner.)
Kate says
I am another who thought it looked interesting, but thought the price was to steep..
Another Kate says
Thank you so much for this review! I found the website creepily suspicious with all the marketing, and was turned off by the labels…yet curious why these scientists would be allowing their names to be put on it in bright lights. I am not convinced that any of the games give any information about how any dog thinks – their assessment seems like classic anthropomorphism. Do you remember those tests a while ago that were supposed to tell you how intelligent your dog is? If you put a blanket over their head, how fast do they try to get it off? Maybe I’m jaded because my dogs never minded having a blanket on their head 😉
Katy says
I haven’t tried the Dognition tests, mostly because I did administer Stanley Coren’s dog intelligence test to my dogs years ago and, like Beth with the corgis said of the tests she did, I had to reinterpret many of the results because of previous training. For example, one of the tests was to rearrange the furniture in a room while the dog was not in the room and then you rated the dog’s intelligence based on a choice of behaviors. Claire’s response was not on that list – she went directly into her crate upon seeing the rearranged furniture, which was a response I had inadvertently trained by crating her every time I painted (which was always preceded by moving the furniture).
Regarding the research on pointing, I’ve read both of the articles you mention and was recently reminded of them when I realized that my foster dog has no clue what pointing means. She looks at my face really well but my hand – not hardly at all. She’s from a hoarder and spent at least the first 9 months of her life in a fenced in yard without much human contact. Even after several months with me, she hasn’t learned to look where I point, no matter how clearly I point (gaze, shoulders, feet, the whole body…). But I still love Hare’s article mostly because my undergraduates can find problems with the research so it makes a great introduction to critical reading and thinking about scientific literature.
Martha Meacham says
Thank you for your honest assessment. I really wanted to like the product.
What irks me is they are “recruiting” dog trainers using the thin guise of their products as “curriculum”.
I am professional educator and the scheme is more like getting dog trainers to sell the products in the name of “education”/curriculum.
In return for a listing of my contact information on their webpage, I can sell their product to my clients!
Pricey~ cleverly disguised marketing scheme….to get others to sell their product.
Karen London says
Trisha, I love your insights and I’m so grateful that you wrote about your experiences with these tests. I hope that it makes people consider what they are buying when they are deciding whether to participate. Based on the multitude of variables involved, I would have serious reservations about conclusions based on any of the data in this project.
Also, like Suzanne, the idea of citizen scientists paying to participate bothers me, both because it doesn’t seem like standard practice and because of the risk of bias in the conclusions. (Few people want to pay money to be told that the dog they love so much is a simpleton, for example, even if it’s a pretty accurate assessment.)
I’m just so appreciative that you shared the unique perspective of your experience as a scientist, a trainer, behaviorist, dog owner, and dog lover. Keep on writing posts like this–it’s always a joy to read!
Rose C says
Kat and Beth, I too have read about the theory of the ‘self-domestication’ of dogs in a book by Coppinger and Coppinger and the book gives credible arguments why dogs couldn’t have come from the domestication of wolves/wolf pups including the fact that socialized/’domesticated’ wolf pups always revert back to their wild nature when they become adults. There are 2 other books on the theory of dog evolution that I want to read but haven’t gotten to it yet.
This is the first time I’ve heard of the Dognition Assessment Toolkit but nevertheless, it did not interest me to try it at all. I would not want to pay that much for something that would tell me things that I essentially (if not already) know about my dogs or something that would tell me things that might not be of significance to me anyway. I agree with Suzanne, it is a hefty fee to pay considering that we are the ones providing the data they need for their research. I find it more exciting as I discover (or realize) things about my dogs from our daily routines, trainings, and activities as well as by observing them.
I really love the Beech leaf photo.
I also love how the camera caught Willie while running (I love ‘in action’ and ‘mid-air’ photos, things that last for split seconds and are not caught still by the human eye).
I suppose the striae-like marks on the sheep are from the shearing? My dog gets those marks when I clipper cut her coat real short.
Kerry M. says
I did the test with my dog, Huck, and was one of the people who requested this topic, so thanks! But I’m sorry it was a chore.
Huck was a socialite which was a surprising category name given his stranger danger quality but the text suited him to a “t”, so I realized its just not the best-named category. He definitely has some strong suck-up traits though I can see why they didn’t name it the suck-up or the kiss-a__. Apparently they have gotten enough feedback on this category name that they wrote a blog post about how they mean socialite.
The one test that I found most interesting for Huck is that he would go with my pointing to a treat even over his own memory. He’d see me place a treat, I’d then point to the other cup, and he would go to the empty cup I was pointing at. I felt like quite a heel but was shocked and, yes, kind of touched, that he actually trusted me over his own eyes. I wouldn’t have guessed that.
I also helped my friend with his dog and she had an interesting result, too. She would “steal” the leave it treat when he covered his eyes. Wouldn’t go near it when he was looking at her or when his back was turned. I think she would have lasted 90 minutes without going near it if he was looking at her. But as soon as he covered his eyes, she slunk up to eat it within seconds surprising us both. We actually ran this whole sequence again since it seemed like a fluke and sure enough, she will leave it unless the eyes are covered. Huck didn’t go near the treat at all during this test which is hard to interpret. Does Abby (my friend’s dog) have a better theory of mind understanding when she is being observed or does Huck just have a better leave it? Both seem reasonable. Both could even be right.
While it may have brought up more questions than answers, I liked the questions it brought up. I would definitely recommend it to others. But I can see how it might be disappointing if you don’t get even one surprising result.
matthew says
Patricia thank you for the review. I have been contemplating trying out Dognition so that I could better answer people if asked about it. Now I can just point to your post, which covers concerns and issues I probably wouldn’t have thought of.
My day job is in IT. And to be brutally blunt, Dognition has WAY to much of a commercial enterprise feel to it and even though I haven’t tried it out yet, my gut feeling is that how they are collecting data will lead to VERY suspect conclusions.
Also, being in IT, I was wondering about the profiles and how they were generated. Your comments confirm some suspicions. It makes perfect sense that they would write up the profiles so that people feel good about their dog. if you got a “negative” profile, would you recommend Dognition to a friend? would you continue to use the service? would you sign up your other dog or next dog?
After reading their web site, which (which I was very unimpressed with) and getting a feel (as much as you can without buying their product) one concern I had was the affect of training style on the perception of a dog’s intelligence. For example, we know that punishment based training discourages offering behavior or taking a risk. where as non punishment based make it safe to try or offer behavior.
And of course, I wonder about previous training how that could skew the results. did the dog know to do X because dogs just know to do X. Or was X learned through training?
for example, my dog and I play “hunting games”….which is basically me hiding small chunks of meat around the house and my dog hunting for them. If he is struggling to find a particular chunk of meat, he has learned that if I point in the general direction, that if he searches a little more through he will find the treat. So did coming knowing the pointing or did he learn through experience and association that when I “point” there is a food reward involved? when I first started pointing, it didn’t mean much. now he knows it means something worth check out is “over there”.
He has also learned that when I say “warm”, the hidden meat is close by and to look a little harder. does that mean he knows English?
Another initial impression was that well, at least they will get people interested in learning about and working with their dog. But, based on your feed back of the profile. will they do more “harm” than good by using phrases like “has a wild, wolf-like side “? boy, I can really see that going sideways. many of the punishment based trainers like to really play up that dogs are like wolfs and “NEED” that rough treatment because that is what they do to each other and understand, among other myths.
Maybe I need to go through the process my self still, but your feed back has only reinforced my initial impression and filled in some details.
Thank you again for taking the time to go through it, and provide some thoughts and feed back.
Beth with the Corgis says
RE: pointing: While Jack follows both pointing and general hand signals (came in handy when he needed to wear a cone for a corneal scratch and I was able to direct him through narrow halls and around obstacles, Maddie treats hand-pointing the way a cat does: she stares at your hand. Even when she KNOWS that you dropped a treat and one would think she presumes you are trying to help her find it (her nose skills are pretty pitiful), she stares at your hand and waggles her back end.
However, she follows FOOT-pointing very well. Which I find especially interesting because her spacial awareness is also, erm, a bit lacking (especially for a heeler-type herder) and she has been accidentally kicked more times than I care to admit. One would think feet would be intimidating to her? But nope, point your foot and off she trots to the thing you pointed at.
Jane says
Sounds like pseudo-science to me. If the goal is to evaluate pointing, then a person should not be asked to also aim their face/ use their gaze. My observation after living with groups of dogs is that they inherently understand gaze, and look to each others’ faces and the direction the face/eyes are pointing for signals. This is most obvious when there is a visitor “intruder” on the property, or a noise is heard in the distance, by one dog. When that dog alerts, the others look at his face for the direction of the threat, then also alert/head in that direction. This becomes even more pronounced as some dogs grow deaf with age – they look to the other dogs faces for clues as to what is going on. So I think dogs naturally look at human faces for signals also.
On the other hand, I don’t think dogs inherently understand human hand pointing. I think this is something learned from living with humans. From my experience in obedience and agility training, pointing is very easy to teach dogs. But I think it comes secondarily to dogs reading the general direction a person’s body (especially shoulders) and face are pointing.
Indulging in a little pseudo-science of my own…Tricia, you mentioned that most dogs were “lefties”. I’ve heard from many instructors and observed from many dogs in agility classes that a high majority (maybe 80-90%) are “righties” …possibly more righties end up in agility? Or, since herding breeds dominate agility, maybe herders tend to be righties? Maybe the drive that is common in agility dogs comes from a left-brain/ right paw dominance? The right-hand preference becomes obvious when a dog takes a jump, then needs to turn left afterwards. Many dogs will spin to the right before turning left (as if they would really prefer to go right), whereas turning to the right presents no problem. Or perhaps this could be because the majority of humans are righties, and the dogs are picking up on some signal/ body cue from the person?
Mary K. says
I tried both the Leave It test and the pointing test with my dog this morning. My fella has a really reliable Leave It and he was able to do it for 90 seconds but I have say it was disconcerting and felt like an eternity. I guess we have never practiced Leave It for that length of time before-usually it is for several seconds and then he gets to Take It-definitely his favorite part! That 90 seconds was looooooong, let me tell you. Especially when you are watching your dog try to figure out what it is you want, all the while, licking his lips and sniffing the air. I tried it with both kibble and a high value treat (small pieces of hot dog) to see if that would alter the outcome and it didn’t as long as I made continued eye contact. When I covered my eyes (while still facing him) he waited until I gave him the Take It command. I had him wait for 30 seconds until I felt bad and let him have it. Interestingly, it was when I turned my back to him that he waited for only 10-15 seconds before gobbling up the treat.
Similar to Kerry’s Huck my dog relied on my pointing gesture a great deal more than I would have realized. Even when he saw me place the treat on a certain side in a certain cup he followed my point to the wrong side before figuring it out. But then again, we do play games that require me to point something out to him sometimes, so I can see where he would be confident that my pointing gesture would have a desirable outcome for him.
Sarah A says
I looked at that site, and thought it sounded suspicious. I’d be interested in playing cognition games with my dogs, but not at that price. I have a pretty good idea how they think anyway.
And from your description, it would be monumentally unhelpful, because they’d just be eating all the time. My Staffordshire Bull Terriers really like their food, and they’re really good at finding it. They don’t have a “leave it” command (I say “leave it” to them sometimes, but it doesn’t mean anything to them. If I say it sternly enough, they’ll pause, and I have time to grab whatever I didn’t want them to have.) So that test would be meaningless. The rest of the tests, they’d just be finding the food as fast as possible. And I already know that me pointing at a treat on the ground doesn’t help them much. If I drop a treat when I’m training, and try to point at it, they are unlikely to find it, unless I get my finger almost on the treat.
Sometimes it helps to just say, “hey, it’s by your back foot there”. But pointing, no.
Dieta says
I love the photos, especially the second photo – up the hill. It’s always 30 degree here in Singapore, which I love. I really enjoy looking at winter and spring photos. And I said “enjoy looking” because I’ve lived in Europe for a few years and I hate to be outside during winter. I love watching the snow from inside my house with a cup of hot chocolate and warm soup.
Beth says
Thank you for that honest assessment. It makes me happy that I didn’t waste my money. Just like the comments above, I too was suspicious for the same reasons. I am also familiar with his research and feel as though it is seriously lacking and incomplete.
Nic1 says
I first came across this on Victoria Stilwell’s blog as she seems a big fan of this. I have to say that if you are a savvy dog owner then perhaps this won’t really be of much benefit to you and your dog. It may enlighten people who have yet to be enlightened about their dog’s inner world. I would rather spend the money on some puzzle toys, plush toys and the like.
Rose C says
@Jane, your comment on dogs looking at each other for possible direction seemed to explain what I observe in my dogs. When I ask them to stay and hold their stay a bit longer (example, before going for the food or going through the door) or sometimes if they are not sure what I want them to do or when to proceed, I notice one would look at the other. I find it amusing but that’s because I often anthropomorphize what I see. I even go as far as ‘putting words in their mouth’, so to speak (I admit I have fun doing this at their expense :). But in reference to what you posted, dogs really are social beings and when living closely together, they look to us and each other for directions. Sometimes, they don’t even really look for directions – one barks and the other follows without even knowing what the first dog was barking at.
Also, your idea of left brain/right brain dominance is quite interesting. Since there are many similarities between the dog and the human neuro organs and pathways, brain hemisphere dominance probably applies to them too (?). Maybe this can be an additional guide in choosing games and activities that an individual dog may be good at or might like better?
001mum says
I can only comment on your photos>just super! “light and airy” would be my first impression comment for the beech leaf.
Silly me, I think the lambies look cold and i want to knit them a wool coat! 🙂 Spring tempts us but our darn snow still lingers in huge rock-like icy mounds if the sun doesn’t hit it just right. I have violas in a planter,hardy things they are!
Pup and I had a terrific field run around noon today-a blizzard blew through and my 3 head coverings were “just about right” (a bright aqua knit cap,a hoodie AND the wind proof hood on my jacket). Pup leaned against my knees for a moment to get warm. His looks said “what the heck, it’s April 1st!”
I have noted with him his incredibly pointed questioning look if something is different in our environment. Today was a (I think this is what it was) a new pipe for a natural gas line and it was making a whoosh sound. I told him what I thought it was, his answer: “OK mum” and off he went.
He easily moves forward as I point in a specific direction. I have absolutely no interest in testing my dog to find out his ?character. My daily emotional link and sharing time and adventures is (so far) sufficient. I have unilaterally decided he is awesome !
mind you-in 2 weeks i am taking a Scent Detection workshop with him-THAT I would like some help with!
Mary says
Thank you for this great review. I looked at the website and am interested but was put off by the high price and my bogus radar started beeping. It didn’t seem to have solid science behind it despite the litany of experts. I have a old farm smooth collie who is the smartest dog I have ever had but does have a mind of her own. I tried the pointing test and found she ignored my point despite having trained her to follow my point as well as spoken directions. Interesting you had the same experience so the point down is probably different from point out.
I don’t like the deception aspect of some of the games. I’ve been careful not to un-train the point by tricking the dog. She is too ready to read my body rather than the fingers anyway and often makes assumptions as to what I want rather than listen. We do a lot of try again. She has a solid leave it and her stay is very good. We practice stay at every meal so she is very good at not grabbing the food until I give her ok whether I turn my back or go out of the room or let a cat eat out of her bowl – the very hardest thing.
Isn’t a great deal of the dog response a matter of what the dog has been trained to do? If a dog doesn’t know leave it, why would any dog not go for a treat? Is that telling you anything except that the dog hasn’t been taught leave it? How much of the choices the dog makes is a matter of how it has been trained?
In training, I’ve learned my dog’s cognitive preferences and that she is willing to do what I ask but always thinks about it. If she thinks she has a better way, she will try that unless I insist.
By the way, we got a few of the Nina Ottenssen games – the hardest one took my dog all of 10 minutes to finish at the hardest level with zero training or practice. Easier games take a couple of seconds for her to solve.
Kerry M. says
I think training is likely a confound in some of the tests, but they do try to control for it. The point of “leave it” wasn’t to test the level of training the dog had, but whether the dog could have a conception of your mind. Do they leave it for the same distance when you are looking at them? when your back is turned? when your eyes are covered? So they compared all the times to see if your dog leaves it longer when you are watching him versus the other options.
I took the Myers-Briggs test a few years ago as part of a work thing and this was very reminiscent of that. It isn’t about a “right” answer or how smart/trained your dog is, but about how they process the world. And it was also similar that sometimes taking the test was a little tedious. I enjoyed most of the tests, but the memory one where you sat and did nothing :30m, 1m, 1:30m, 2m, 2:30m while your dog either forgot or remembered there was a treat under the cup wasn’t the most fun I ever had. But it was instructive, because Huck gave up somewhere in the middle, and I wouldn’t have guessed he would forgot about a treat after only 2 and a half minutes. I actually might try that one again today and see if he does the same on a day with less treats, because that was a treat-errific day!
I’d like to see some refinement possibly in categories and tests leading to greater validity but as it stands right now, I did have a (mostly) enjoyable afternoon testing and learning the specifics of what makes my dog tick. I would also like to see the price come down for others. I rationalized since I haven’t been able to find any training classes that I want to / can take with my dog since last Fall, this seemed like a good substitute.
Nee says
Thanks Trisha, for the review on the Dognition games. As an ethologist, I’m also curious to see just what lies behind them, so I’ve signed up for it and will test them soon with Kiyo. My initial concern is with the marketing spiel – the writing sounds a lot like those personality tests used in corporations to see what kind of team player/ management style one has. The sample profile that was provided in the website sounds so politically correct that it may be hard to actually pinpoint where work is needed. I’m also curious to see if such tests can be used to help shelter dogs, to identify what kind of games may appeal most to particular individuals, and so help in the relief of kennel boredom in addition to other training games. But the assessment will have to take a lot less time than a few days :). I’m keeping my options open, taking the games as they are, and then see what happens. It’s always good to be curious, I think! Will report back, if there’s anything interesting.
em says
These cognition tests are intriguing to me, but I have some of the same reservations that others have expressed. #1- No way am I going to pay a substantial amount of money to do these assessments. #2- I am far from convinced that the exercise that I have heard described actually measure the things that they are supposed to be measuring. For instance- if a dog gives up on a treat under a cup after two minutes, does that mean that he forgot, or that he gave up? How can we tell? It seems important since one is indicative of cognitive ability, the other is not. If many of these tests need to be adjusted to take training and prior experience into account, it seems that the tests themselves are not as good an indicator of a particular dog’s intelligence than their owner’s assessment anyhow. I suppose some of the tests might be enlightening, but I’m not getting the impression that they are overall worth investing in.
Far more interesting to consider…if some these tests seem flawed, what would be better? How CAN we test for cognitive ability in dogs? That seems like a fascinating exercise to me.
Beth with the Corgis says
Kerry, in response to “The point of “leave it” wasn’t to test the level of training the dog had, but whether the dog could have a conception of your mind….”
That may be what they are trying to test for, but in fact it’s actually a demonstration of how well you’ve managed to train “leave it” and make the dog understand that it means not to take the food until you say ok.
When I got Jack, he was an only dog and so I spent tons of time training him. And yes, I did train him to leave things even if I left the room, or turned around. And if you are willing to use mild aversives (I was, in the form of a stern verbal scolding) and “trick” the dog by setting him up so you can catch him and give a correction (this sort of proofing is only done after the dog is very well schooled in what you mean, of course), you can very effectively train a dog to understand that “leave it” means don’t even try to take it til given the ok, because Mom is all-seeing and She Will Know! (I should add there are very few things I use aversive techniques for, but being careless with teeth during play is one, and grabbing something after being told not to is another).
Now, if Young Adult Jack would have taken the treat when I turned around, but Trained Adult Jack would not, that doesn’t really show anything about theory of mind. It DOES show that I used conditioning to make him believe that I could always tell if he was taking something, even if he thought I was not paying attention.
Anyway, a young child that is old enough to understand theory of mind will sometimes try to sneak something if they think they might not get caught. As will many adults. So I don’t know if that exercise actually shows us much of that at all.
Frances says
Interesting that you liken these tests to the Myers Briggs tests, Kerry – MB are beloved by HR departments, but not exactly well rated by academics and professional psychologists.
em – you have set me thinking on ideas for more genuinely useful tests. My first thought is that humans would have to be removed from the equation altogether – so many dogs I know have learned that the quickest way to get a problem solved is to persuade a human to sort it out that the presence of a human in the room immediately warps things.
Kerry M. says
Beth with the Corgis, yep, I agree that is a confound. I mentioned in my first post that Huck left it for all the scenarios. Given that, I don’t know if he has no concept of what I can see or just has a well trained “leave it”, or (and this is probably the most likely) he thought it was an odd set-up, so he just decided to wait me out.
But it was an illuminating exercise for my friend’s dog who very clearly thought she could take a treat with the eyes covered, but in no other situation. Now, did she have a conception of covered eyes or did she think he was being goofy, so give it a try? Who knows, but the result was surprising and thus, interesting.
I mentioned this before, but I think it’s most interesting when you get that surprise result. I love working with my dogs, and reading dog research, but before I signed up for this test I never tried to apply research directly to my own dogs. I did worry that there were too few trials to be completely legit and that sometimes conclusive leaps were being made, but I don’t think doubling the trials would have made it more enjoyable and questioning those leaps was also interesting.
Mary says
Nothing to do with to with Dognition Assessments.. Just wanted to drop you a note and tell you how much I enjoyed for the Love of a Dog!! Such a sweet read! I wept when I read of Luke, and lol at reading the chapter Are you thinking what I’m thinking!!! I am the crazy lady who won’t go out afterwork or make plans on Saturday because it is all about Kaiser!!! He is my best bud, we share profound moments, there is no way I would ever believe for a nano second that he didn’t have emotions!!! I love watching him problem solve, his kisses on my return home, his anticipation for the what’s coming next, how he brings me my sneakers in the morning so we will go for a walk..
It was interesting when you provided the example of dogs bonding with a human and not the other dog at the pound… I could go on and on.. Oh yes one more thing I have a bengal cat who was a singleton at birth… She is completely crazy, never mind the breed.. She hates and I mean abhors being touched or held!!!!!! But will happily follow you around the house. I am mailing your book from Massachusetts to Mexico to my friend Katie so I can share your words. Hope you Ewe has her lambs Saturday that is my day… My husband left after 20 years, I shall leave out the sorid details, but that is how Kaiser came into my life and I never knew of my abilities to train a dog… SSSShhhh, it really isn’t me, it just that he so incredibly bright, with reasoning and problem solving abilities and loves his momma so much he will follow me anywhere… Take care, thank you for a good read. and as we say in Boston, have a wicked good weekend. : ) Mary
Prescott says
I have played the games, and holy cow, yes, 90 seconds staring at your dog is IMPOSSIBLY LONG! I share many of your complaints (I laughed at most of them, you inexplicably described many of my feelings perfectly), however I think that is definitely part of the brilliance of Dognition–that it made me think about what I was doing and observing. I’ve read dozens of pointing publications and communications and arguments about pointing gestures, but now that I have actually done some of them, I have so many new thoughts about how my dog might interpret my body, just as it sounds like maybe you did with the horizontal pointing versus closer to your body pointing. I think it will be awesome if Brian and the lab discover some really amazing results with an enormous population at their disposal. But I think every single dog trainer should do it, maybe not every owner (depends, need some patience for sure), because it helps to be critical and a better consumer of the information coming from cognition labs. I think labeling it as a way to learn about your dog better might be misleading, but then again Brian is trying to get average pet owners involved in something new, and new is scary, and at the very least semantically, I learned what my dogs do with multiple cups, sticky notes, and cheese do now :).
Nee says
An update: we’ve just tried the Empathy game section with Kiyo, and it throws up some questions. I wonder what you guys think of them? In the eye contact game, the instructions were to stop the timer after the dog has looked away for at least 2s and then give the dog the treat. There were 3 trials in the game. Now if one were to follow the instructions strictly, and gave the treat when the trial ended (i.e. dog has looked away), what is the risk of that reinforcing the behaviour of looking away? Usually we work hard to reinforce eye contact, so is there a possibility that the game would derail that behavior? Or is the risk mitigated by 2 other factors (a) we only play the game once, so I guess the impact may be low; (b) for a dog that is already on a variable schedule of reinforcement – presumably it would also have little effect? I wonder if these tests should be tiered at different levels, depending on the level of training that a dog has received. It may be useful as a baseline test for a naive dog that shows some affiliative behaviour towards a person and hence we can gauge its baseline behaviour along the 5 dimensions of Empathy, Communication, Cunning, Memory, Reasoning. However for a dog that has already established a good working relationship with its owner, would using the same tests for such a dog be more of a test of the reliability and fluency of the dog’s trained behaviours? The games are not terribly fun and shouldn’t be marketed as such :). Kiyo took little naps during the Yawn trials, it was all very relaxing but he didn’t yawn :). I’m in 2 minds about finishing the games – I’m still curious about the rest of the methodology, but I’m not so certain about continuing to use Kiyo as the test subject :).
Natasha says
Patricia – Thank you for your assessment. It definitely brings up some great points that I thought of through out the “games”. Some of them were tedious and I was definitely glad they were over, and working on leave it after the test is a definite must (unless they do not break).
I took the Dognition assessment with Dante and it did tell me everything I already knew about him. It was spot on, but I was worried about reinforcing behaviors I didn’t want such as in the leave it game where the dog got to eat the cookie after being told to leave it and choosing not to listen (I guess I need more training there, but I already knew that). Also, like Nee said, reinforcing for looking away, couldn’t that skew the results for a dog who learns quickly and after the first time they get the cookie for looking away they continue doing it. My boys have really strong eye contact and definitely would not look away from a cookie, but after a while Dante got bored, looked around (which took about 5 seconds) and then looked back. For the yawn game, Dante started throwing out every trick in the book, because normally when we work together and I am silent he likes to figure out what I am thinking and how he can earn his paycheck. I yawned and he flopped on his side, yawned again and he did down, another time he just stared at me.
In the end, he was labeled a socialite and his empathy scores were off the charts, but I’ve known that since day 1. There were only two puppies left and I was crying because we were not keeping any. The little male (who is now my Dante), climbed into my lap and started licking my face. From that point forward I knew he was mine, but if I am ever sad or upset, he stops what he is doing and comes right over to me. So with Dantes test they hit the nail on the head.
I do agree that while we may already know our dogs, “pet owners” who want to gain more insight may benefit from these tests (even if a couple are tedious).
Also, the price has come down. The test is now $39 and I had a $20 discount code which made it more affordable to try ($19 was definitely easier to swallow for a trying).
Here is Victoria Stillwell’s take on it (http://positively.com/2013/02/08/dognition-is-here/) and she does say it is similar to the MB test as well (which I know some of you stated earlier). She also uses the word novel, which I would agree that it is at this point.
Nancy and Missy says
I found you review after hearing a radio interview about the “tests” for cognition and looking at the site. I was wondering if I would learn anything new and appreciate you having spent the money for me.
I have had my well trained toy poodle for about 5 years. Missy was tossed from a pickup truck into our woods as a fully trained two year old. After looking for an owner I eventually decided to keep her in our big dog household. I spent many hours and classes trying to learn the cues she had been trained so very well on. She was such a different creature than the big dogs I have always had and trained from puppyhood. Just trying to understand what I could do that would signal that it was okay for her to eat the food in her bowl was a puzzle. I think these assessment tools might have been very helpful to me in the beginning.
Now, of couse we have a solid routine and communicate very clearly, most of the time. For example, she never fails to let me know when it is 9PM, her preferred bed time, and at 9:30 she gives up and settles in the corner of the sofa. I would be willing to spend money on more games to play with her. We often do the hide and seek for treats and she will hide as well behind the sofa cushions while I loudly call for her (ignoring the wagging tail that sticks out), keep away, fetch, and under/over. However willing she is to do these twenty times each week I am personally ready for some new fun!
Connie says
I have been debating whether I wanted to try dognition, so this morning I googled “dognition reviews” and lo and behold, your review was first in the search results!
I do a lot of training with my dogs, so after scanning the test descriptions my initial feeling was that it seemed their training could get in the way of meaningful results. They already know Leave It, pointing (hand and foot), and a few other things that I thought might skew the test. It seems that whether or not a dog is familiar with certain commands or gestures is a huge variable.
The story above with the dog who wouldn’t approach the cup because it was perceived as belonging to the humans – that’s exactly the kind of thing I thought might happen with mine! I can imagine staring at my “soft” boy for 90 seconds. I am sure he would think he’d done something terribly wrong, and just lie down.
I do like the *idea* of this test, and I agree with someone above who said it could be a fun tool for people who do not do a lot of training with their dogs. Maybe it could help them see their dog in a new light, and perhaps get them interested in playing more training games with their dog, which is not a bad idea. 🙂
Laura (Rita's mom) says
After seeing info on Dognition and reading your review as well as others, I wonder how much the “spot on” results some folks are praising are more about human psychology than canine behavior. Anytime people are relied on to interpret/record their pet’s actions/reactions, they so often seem to put their own spin on things. I appreciate your review for being more scientific minded, as most others simply embraced the aptly-described “blue ribbon for all who participate” model.
My concern about this type of “science” is that too many people will embrace whatever doggie personality their dog is given through the site and, rather than working patiently and lovingly with their dogs, they will use the evaluation as an excuse for bad dog behavior (which usually has more to do with an ineffective/inattentive owner than with the actual pet). “Oh, my dog is social, she just needs to jump on strangers to show her joy, it’s her nature!” “My dog is naturally communicative, he is barking to express himself, I don’t want to discourage his instincts!” Meanwhile the poor dogs are neurotic and confused because they don’t know what is expected of them or what behaviors are appropriate and when.
Yes, we need to know our dogs’ “personalities” and how to work with their strengths and minimize the negative impacts of their weaknesses, both for our sakes and for the happiness and comfort of the dog, but far too few people take the time and patience required to really work with their dogs. I’d be pleased to find out that the Dognition program is working well for others beyond the few uninspiring, nonspecific laudatory reviews I’ve read. Once more, thanks for giving a more balanced and realistic assessment.
Lynn says
I’m about halfway through these tests. I’m finding the website (and the tests) annoying more than anything. I don’t have a helper, so I’ve been telling my poodle to just sit and stay at one end of the room, then telling her to come on over when she would otherwise be ‘released’. She doesn’t even know the command for ‘stay’, nor have we ever worked on it, but she knows exactly what I mean and she does it. So do I need this test to tell me my dog is both smart and cooperative? Hardly.
With the cunning test, for 90 seconds she just sat there and stared at me while a tasty treat lay on the floor in front of her. Over and over again. *I* was the one wishing she would just come get it – WAY too long and annoying of a test. She never once moved from her spot, whether my back was turned or eyes closed or whatever (this from a dog who doesn’t even know ‘stay’ command). And in the end, she ranked halfway between trustworthy and cunning. So what makes for a fully ‘trustworthy’ dog if a 100% never-getting-the-treat before 90 seconds makes you half/half?
The answer is – I have no idea. Because the website gives you no data, no interpretation, no scales, no reasons for the ranking, no minimum and maximum and average, nothing. I’m actually a scientist by trade so the lack of data availability drives me nuts. I’m very disappointed also to hear the final report is probably going to read like an astrology piece rather than a real assessment (a ‘real’ assessment being one with the data, and means and confidence intervals and the like).
Too bad. I love data and I love my dog and I thought this would be fun, but it’s just a lame thing to make money from what I can gather so far. Like paying money to take those pointless “which color would you be…” or “what style are you?” type of questionnaires that are ubiquitous on the internet to waste the time of people. Oh well.
chris Mercer says
I too was a bit put off by the price I would not argue the validity of his methods or conclusion as I am but a lay dog owner and trainer of thirty years. Yes you can train an old dog trainer new tricks but it is easier to show them through demonstrations through their dogs. In the Durham NC are vasts amounts of varying breeds and dog owners who would gladly donate their time to a research project run by researchers. Perhaps a grant for the research, I know of dedicated folks who would gladly bring their canines to a well managed project.
Daniel says
Admit it… You just aren’t good at staring matches. 😉 (can’t stare at your dog for 90 seconds) lol
C.C. says
I just did the test today. My dog did terrible on the last one _ likely because I did all 5 in one day but that’s beside the point. He’s a herding dog. Mixed breed but all herders in the mix. Any insight as to finding how he’d compare to similar breeds?
C.C. says
Jane, My herding dog favored the right too!
C.C. says
Grr.. I hit submit too fast again… Lynn, I was frustrated by the same – I even wrote to the company to ask them why. (answer below)
“Dogs that wait the full 90 seconds are usually categorized as obedient and placed in the middle of the spectrum. They’re placed in the middle instead all the way on the side of Trustworthy because Jase might still lick the food you leave on the kitchen table when he knows you aren’t looking or paying attention.”
Sidenote: My dog has been left in the living room alone for 10+ minutes with a steak on the coffee table, next to his bed and did not touch it. #refund
Pam Bolin says
I am 3/4 of the way through the test. I found each test interesting, but more than that, my dogs reactions on some of the tests surprised me. For example, when I put the treat down and told my dog no she walked right up and grabbed the treat. When I turned my back and closed my eyes she never moved. I didn’t expect that. It was fun for me but found that it was a bit slow for my Heeler border cross. She handled it expertly by sleeping in between. The 2.5 minute wait was yes long but said a lot about my dog. My husband was the bored one.
Phyllis says
I was interested in Pat’s response to Dognition. I signed up for the games because I believe training and games strengthen the bond between me and my dog. Plus my dog enjoys training and games; they motivate and energize her. I didn’t expect to learn more about my dog so much as see how she behaved in relation to other dogs. I also wanted to contribute to the research. I didn’t use a partner. Because Libby knows the Stay command, I was able to work with her by myself, except for the beginning of one game. Libby came out an ACE. That confirmed to me that she is the exceptional rescued dog of 13 years that I know she is. Did that disappoint me because I didn’t learn anything? No. One thing I wondered about the research: how much does training, like my dog has had over many years, influence the results. Are we measuring basic cognition or training and lots of interaction with people? I have appreciated all the comments.
Penny says
I saw the episode on 60 Minutes here in Australia and was interested in the “games”to learn more about our 12 year old Jack Russell Pepper.
I was a little surprised that there was a cost for so-called research data accumulation, however that was not the over-riding factor for not signing up.
Most importantly Pepper is diabetic. A disease that unfortunately is becoming common-place in dogs and cats. So any behavioral assessment can only be made without treats.
Pepper has been with us since he was a mere pup and I have spent many hours training him, not just to sit, stay, hold, lie etc, but to also fetch and bring different toys and recognise commands such as not digging in the garden, staying off certain furniture etc. He is like many of his breed highly intelligent, requiring stimulation, needing to be taught boundaries and believing he is actually a rottweiler in disguise! In his world I am alpha, he is beta and my husband just that person who shares the house with us! He is highly empathetic with me and hates any form of argument we may have, illustrating this by hiding in the spare room behind the bed. When I am ill he will not leave my side and yes he sleeps alongside me at night.
My interest in doing the dognition was not that I would learn more about him, but rather that I may learn more about the changes in him I have noted since being diagnosed with diabetes nearly two years ago.
Prior to this he was averse to going to the vet for his check-ups and needed to be muzzled for his annual injections. He had a tendency to be “feisty”if chastised (punishment has always been verbal or banished to the outdoors NEVER physical) and I was loathe to trust him around my grandchildren in case he “put them in their place”! As he needs two injections per day I was fearful at how he would handle it. To everyone’s surprise he has adapted brilliantly. He is acutely aware of timing and waits by his feed-bowl for breakfast and dinner, then harasses my hubby twenty minutes later for injection. He positions himself for the needle and never complains. His demeanor has changed dramatically, becoming what the vet and nurses call our little trooper. He is now more attached to me than ever and has developed separation anxiety that does concern me as I need to go away for a week every now and then. I am very interested in learning more about the whys and hows of this personality change and whether it is common across diabetics or dogs with other long-term medical conditions. I do not believe that dognition would have taught me anything I don’t already know about Pep and would not have added to their “research”. Sceptical? yes…I am however eager to learn more about Pep’s adaptation and any research that is being conducted into assessing this phenomena.
Harry says
Some customer discovery feedback, if the company reads this…. For me, $80 is too much for assessment and an ongoing functioning tool for my dog. I might pay as much as $25 for my two dogs. Good luck … you’ll need it …
Paula says
Paula w/Jesse and Sam
Wow.
Thank you all for writing the reviews. I want to have the dogs fulfilled mentally as well as physically. We have done pretty well on the physical. I want it all! While I know there is so much more to know, this product, and cost, would most likely have left me feeling shorted on expanding our situation mentally. I base this on what you have written and the following.
Jesse and Sam are border collies, littermates, 10 1/2 yrs old & have been with me since they were 6 1/2 weeks old. Jesse is a “right paw” dog (by one definition ). Sam is an”left paw” dog.
We have spent up to 3 hours together, almost literally, every day in exercise/play. Every morning, while living close to the Pacific Ocean, it was the dog beach. They have accompanied me: to the real estate office on a daily basis for 4 of their years; out to appointments w/clients & inspectors; crawled under homes with the physical inspector & me, following obediently, turning and leading us out when requested to do so. They have accompanied me into any business office that would allow dogs. After attending puppy training at 7 1/2 yrs old, as certification was need to become therapy dogs (and one of us needed to “learn” how to “train” a dog … oh, that was ME! ), Jesse became a hospital therapy dog for 1 1/2 years while Sam flunked out for his aversion to highly polished hospital floors. ( Those who know dogs will appreciate it when I totally accept this as MY issue and MY lack of training. ) As of this date, we are retired & the dogs are excellent backpacking partners.
Sam and Jesse work “the nose” like crazy (which to Cesar Millan is critically important for dogs to be dogs).
Both dogs are extremely intuitive. Sometimes, they seem to have things figured out before I’ve done nothing more that formulate a thought in my mind.
Often, Sam will sit back and watch Jesse jump to “it” … whatever “it” is… a task, a discovered unknown surprise … and seemingly say “Let’s see what you find before I decide whether or not to participate.”
Sam has superior vision … which Jesse cues in on.
Both are extremely audio … vocabulary, tonality ( like to my recall sound, happiness, sadness, anger) .
They will give me “the paw” … a raised paw in my direction if we are in the car, on the leg if in the house, on the toe if in public … which I have chosen to interpret as ” we need input !”
Heads are cocked until an answer is given that is understood.
Jesse knows the rules and will “discipline” Sam ( let me add… appropriately ) if Sam is misbehaving, and Sam will obey.
Yet, Sam is the one who strives to obey, even if he’d rather not. Jesse is the one who will make it very plain that he will “consider his options” if a command is stretching his reasoning.
Both dogs are kinesthetic to the extreme. When I was faced with life shattering events. I took them to my holistic dog guru as well as my western trained vet. These 2 bipeds backed each other in looking ME in the eyes & encouraging me to not break down in front of the dogs. Jesse was manifesting my pain physically. Jesse actually got to the point that even I could see him walk out of the room “saying” to Sam … “this is too much for me. She’s yours for now.” Both hurt for me.
Neighbors say they are so well trained. They are as different as night and day. Jesse runs like a locomotive. Sam is a sprinter. His paws barely touch the ground. They play together. They bicker when they are tired. I try to set us up for win/win situations at all times. I feel they trust me, respect me. And, at the same time, I feel I am shorting them mentally.
I will search on. Anyone have a suggestion?
Jessica says
I am in the middle of trying these tests with my (almost) 2 year old golden retriever, Fern. I’m not sure if they’ve changed things up a bit since the review was written–so far we’ve finished 3 of the 5 sections, and the max length I’ve had to spend staring her down is 90 seconds. I was glad that I waited to sign up until it’s been on the market awhile, though! The cost for me was about $15 after using a 20% discount code from a friend; I would definitely have been disappointed if it had cost $59. (Here’s the code if anyone else wants one: RAF49TXLP3)
It was fun to read your comments since I was also cringing about the 90-second leave it. As the owner of a food-motivated city dog, this is probably the single thing I’ve worked hardest at training. Visions of chicken bones and silicon packets gobbled danced in my head as I stared her down and internally begged her not to go for the bait. I am sure I botched the results by liberally rewarding her with fistfuls of treats for her obedience at the end of each 90 second repetition. Despite her obedience, she was not labeled “trustworthy,” for reasons stated above by other commenters. We did a 4th version of the test where we told her to leave it and filmed her while we left the room entirely; she still didn’t touch it. I am reminded of the time I accidentally left her in the car as an adolescent with a bag filled with delicious groceries such as grilled deli salmon and a loaf of fresh baked bread in a open-ended paper bag. Having been taught that paper grocery bags are a toy that she is allowed to tear to shreds, I returned to the car to find that she’d demolished the bag and left the groceries untouched. Best “bad” dog ever. I’d say she’s Very trustworthy, especially considering how much she Loves food and would absolutely have devoured any of the things in the bag if she found them in her food bowl.
I also found the results to be questionable when it came to the first test. Fern was labeled off-the-charts empathetic because she didn’t break eye contact while staring down a treat held to my cheek. Have I mentioned my dog loves anything she can put in her belly? Personally, I feel a better interpretation for her performance would be off-the-charts food motivated. No matter how uncomfortable it made her feel, Fern would stare at me for 90 years if that’s what it took to get the treat. She’ll leave the room in discomfort, however, if I am crying.
I am finding that I am–as you were–less and less excited to finish the test, but I am interested to see Fern’s final results and how it compares to the way I understand her. Based on some of the frustrations articulated in some of the earlier reviews and my experience of using the site, I think that dognition does seem to be taking customer feedback into account and addressing it where and when they can. (Explanations are now offered, for example, on why and how your dog scored the way they did.) I’d be interested in a study on dognition’s methods–and more explanation about how they “know” that a dog staring down a treat on your cheek for 90 seconds makes them more empathic not more food motivated.
For anyone who’s interested, their research is now published and can be found here: http://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0135176
Eileen Morris says
I wish I had found this review BEFORE I dished out the money for the membership for two dogs. I, too, had difficulty answering many of the questions. My dog is 13 years-old, hard-of-hearing, and and suffering from leg pain. Most of the scenarios did not apply to her. I was also surprised that I needed a partner to perform most of the tests. I tried to complete the assessments with the assistance of my 8 year-old son…but that became VERY tedious as most dogs are easily distracted by little boys. I thought that I needed to finish the assessments in order for them to send appropriate games. Since I never finished the assessments for either dog, I was confused about the activities that were sent to me each month. Here is another fact that was not shared on their website: the same activities are sent to every customer, regardless of the assessment results. Therefore, you will only receive these monthly emails for one dog.
Needless to say, I did not learn anything about my two dogs, other than the fact that I have once again blown a lot of money on them when I could simply have been playing with them instead.
Taylor says
I was a little bothered about the ” eye contact ” game. According to Dr Hare, the longer the eye contact , the stronger the relationship is between dog and owner. Mind you … He uses a treat held at your eye during this game. He then compares how domestic dogs tested versus some of the wolves raised by a human. First of all , if / when you and your dog go into eye contact with each other , out of respect , your dog is suppose to look away first. Your dog is not suppose to go into a stare contest with you. Hierarchy is very important in the ” dog world”. When they first are introduced into our homes , they first determine a hierarchy. Who is the alpha , the boss. They respect that person or dog. If they feel no one is alpha , they will automatically take that position. ( or try to anyway ). A very important thing between human and dog is respect and hierarchy. One of the signs of respect and ( most of the time ( respect for the alpha in the house ) is eye contact. This is actually an excersise people can do with their dogs. Give their command to sit or even lay down. Continue to obtain eye contact with them. See if they look away or not first. If they do , that is a sign they respect you. Dr Hare tells us to put a treat next to our eyes. And time the eye contact. This game is truly about the treat used in this game. Their noses are very very sensitive to smells. At this point in this game , they are focusing on the treat. ( they smell it , then they see you holding it there). Of course they are going to sit there and stare at you. This is about the treat at that moment. Dr Hares then compares this to the wolf raised by a human. These wolves aren’t domesticated. They really go on hierarchy in the wild. The woman they are raised by are seen as their alpha in their pack. Therefore they respect her. This is why the wolf does not hold eye contact with her.
I agree with a lot of people on this forum. We already know our dogs and know how they will react to these games. And also I agree with Dr Hare needs to do more research especially about dog behavior. And why they do what they do according to ” their ” world and environment. He needs to do more research about ” the dog world” before he makes conclusions about what means what between human and dog. I think it’s great that he is doing research on congnitive behavior of dogs. I just think he needs to do more research in other areas of dogs before he forms his results. Of course we all want to understand what our dogs are communicating to us and have a better understanding of their language.
Also dogs are very influenced by food. It’s hard to tell in the games if the dogs are getting certain results based on the treats as an incentive in each game.
Ulrika says
I too wish I had read this before signing up… I’ve completed 4 out of 5 categories of “games” (not so fun) and find myself putting off starting on the last. Still, I do want to see the results after all, so I suppose I should get to it.
For us the “leave it game” wasn’t so aversive, my dog just kept doing tricks to earn the treat. When I turned around he followed me so I could see him work, and when I covered my eyes he sat down and tried voice. And he got the treat after the time was up, so not so bad. But the pointing game where I was to lie to him! That was absolutely awful, he believed me and followed my point only to end up with an empty cup and me showing him he’d made a mistake and taking the treat away!? After three tries he got so upset he went and sat in a corner refusing to look at me, I felt awful…
I wouldn’t say the tests haven’t taught me anything new about my dog so far (don’t know yet if I’ll manage the last category…), I was honestly surprised that he would tend to favor a particular side even when he saw where the treat was. And I’ve never tried staring at him for minutes and minutes before, so finding out he’d stare back was new I guess.
But I wouldn’t exactly say I feel enlightened, nor am I really convinced what this is actually measuring…
(And the part where I was lying to him REALLY upset me, I can’t quite shake that feeling since.)
joy hickman says
it’s been ordered for me as a gift …..have my doubts but I will try it ….love your photos , but why are the sheep sheared …..it looks cold !
Steve says
Interesting reviews– thank you very much, everyone. I found this site by searching for reviews of this program. I can completely see how this wouldn’t really help most owners who have a base-level awareness of their own dogs. The program strikes me a like an Ancestry DNA test… It’s cool if you want to play with it, and there’s certainly a market out there for the product. On the other hand, most of us wouldn’t really feel a need to purchase it, and at the end of the day, the results aren’t really relevant to anything.
However, my scenario is quite different: a week ago, My family rescued a 6 year old Border Collie. This is my first Border Collie, but I’ve owned three Shetland Sheepdogs, so I’m comfortable with the breed’s overall characteristics and mentality. This dog is smart, of course, but also very well-behaved, and a wonderful companion. On day 4, we felt comfortable giving her the run of the house upon our departure for work. She’s not into the trash, and there’s never a hair out of place in the house when we wake in the AM or when we come home. She doesn’t even eat ‘people food’. I gave her a piece of pizza crust yesterday, and she dropped it twice and looked at me– I actually had to convince her that it was OK to eat it. I am very thankful but appalled that whomever put so much work into training and caring for this beautiful animal was able to surrender her to the shelter.
Now, on the flip side, she knows a few commands, but she’s not ‘obedience-trained.’ E.g., I can’t call her off when her focus is on (dog, squirrel, ball…) Yes, I’m aware that’s a BC thing, but as her handler, I also need to be able to break her gaze. I am also cognizant that there may be a language barrier in terms of commands previously spoken. E.g., when we were at the shelter, I sat her in front of me, I put out my hand and I said “hello?” She looked at me. “Shake?” Nothing. “Paw?” She put her paw right into my hand.
True to the Border Collie breed (and my Shelties before her), this dog’s intelligence is clearly off the charts. She’s also highly sensitive, which is great when I’m working with her, (but not so great when I just want to yell at the kids without receiving a disapproving look from the pooch!) I think the Dognition program may be just the thing for me to discover more about her, work through some exercises, and to bond & build more trust together. I’m also curious whether the Dog’s training level– or our temporary lack of clear communication together– will affect the results. If I decide to spend the money and do the program, I’ll come back & review the program, from a “new-to-me-dog” point of view.
Anne Goldsmith says
It is now 2021 and Dr Hare’s research has been taken up and embraced by the Search and Detection Field. Law Enforcement K9 Handlers are attending his classes as are Search and Rescue Handlers. I am watching dogs who go through these “trials” struggle to understand what they are being faced with. By the end of the day very good search dogs are literally “checking out”. Showing signs of stress and confusion as we, their handlers, act very strangely, stop talking to them in any normal manner, and let strange people restrain them in a strange environment.
I had to switch to high value hotdogs when my search dog stopped wanting to play with her favorite toy. Was this the purpose of Dr Hare’s research?
I took this class to get better insight into my dog’s learning process not to lie to my dog who is my search partner.
Trisha says
Anne, oh my. I’m surprised that these ‘tests’ are being used so widely. Glad you knew to switch to high value treats for your dog. I too found my dogs confused, to say the least. And I haven’t kept up–classes? Oh my.
Bonnie Malinowski says
I bought the annual “membership” to share w/my 4yo GSD, Sabu (who is now 5). We enjoyed doing the assessment together. I’m still not sure which assessment catefory he fits into. I also have not been able to get much of the monthly games. I was allowed into the January test 1 time – now cannot find it al all. I had been hoping to repeat it. I had also been hoping to be able to send some comments or questions to one of your “experts” and found any route to get help, ask questions is blocked – saying the connection is not safe – then not allowing you to ask questions -I am very frustrated – I did pay for full use of your website but don’t feel that is what I have gotten. Please let me know how to ask questions and how I can repeat classes we have already taken or am I not allowed to
Melissa Mccue Mcgrath says
Hi Bonnie!
I just read your comment and ended up tweeting to Dognition personally to make sure there were answers.
I’m looking back at this post and the original post from Trisha appears to be from 2013 – whew! That’s a long time ago – so I sincerely hope the Dognition site is just maybe a little out of date and is getting updated. Keep an eye on it – but Dognition isn’t Trisha’s website – she was just reviewing here 🙂 I’m sure you aren’t the only one with frustrations – so maybe try reaching out to Dognition with screenshots on twitter, or the email address they (hopefully) sent you when you signed up. And, if I happen to find any answers, I’ll post here. Best of luck!
-Melissa