Seen this? The announcer tells us that the dog is “faking death.” I’m just not even going to pursue how and why someone came up with that as an explanation for this dog’s behavior, BUT… What IS going on? I have two hypotheses, but I’m staying mum until I get your ideas. I’ll add mine to the comments sometime this weekend.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: It’s high summer here, hot and humid but the flowers are bursting all around, the bees are laden with pollen, the ruby red tomatoes are swelling and the fresh corn has arrived. Yummm, have you ever eaten corn from the cob minutes after it’s been picked? I mean, ripping off the husks while standing in the field and sinking your teeth into the kernels? SOOO sweet! Why anyone would cook it is beyond me!
Willie is doing well. We have a new set of exercises to do, and go in on Monday for images to ensure that his bone is healing properly. I had to skip his exercises for a few days because of some unexpected family events, and he clearly missed them. It’s hard to imagine how much fun it could be to lift your paw up fifteen times in a row, but when there’s not much else on the docket and you get treats for it, it’s REALLY fun! Everything is relative, right? We’ve been working on learning to heel on the right and “Shift” from left to right on a verbal cue. He thinks this is a great game, and it works well for his shoulder (no turning, no weaving, no stopping and starting). What’s working best for me is singing on our short walks (thanks commenters!). You just don’t want to be any where near us when I start belting out “Like a Bridge Over Troubled Waters….” Not pretty.
However, this IS pretty, from my perennial garden: [Boy do I love Lilies!]
The Octopus Gallery says
The dog in the video looks like he has the same short, sudden narcolepsy/seizure that fainting goats have.
Dave says
It seems to be a trick to me. I knew someone who would do this with her troupe of Border Collies. You would think they are intelligent for putting on a play without human involvement, but once she walked me through how and why– it’s all trained.
Raegan says
The only thing I can think of is some kind of weird Setter dominance show. Looking at how the older dog is on point when the puppy is running around, and how the puppy falls belly up especially the way his back leg is up, showing his groinal area.
em says
Hmm…if I had to give my best guess from this single incident, I’d say that puppy is doing a variation on one of Otis’ favorite tricks, The Flop. He wants to play with the older dog, who seems interested, but not ready to match the puppy’s energy. The pup tries to initiate a wrestling game, gets a little nibble of reciprocal interest and immediately volunteers a ‘flop-you win!’ in hopes of encouraging the other dog to engage in more intense physical play. It’s a more extreme flop than Otis usually does (Otis would probably hurt himself falling that quickly, and he doesn’t usually lie that still), but when Otis does this move, he is trying to encourage a hesitant dog (often much smaller than himself) to roughhouse (at least, that seems to be the effect). I’ve always thought that it was a way of showing that he wanted to play badly enough that he was willing to pull his punches and let the other dog win. He’ll slap at a dog with a paw, then immediately flop onto his back, sometimes without being touched at all. Otis, at least, isn’t indicating submission really, he’s not intimidated by the other dog and he will spring up and wrestle for real if the other dog gets into it, but he is acknowledging their body language and indicating a certain amount of respect for their feelings, if that makes sense. Even if that’s reading too much into it, a play-submission posture does usually have the effect of luring the other dog to come and stand over him, the better to initiate a fun game of tooth fencing, and assuming a play-dominant posture without being challenged DOES encourage most dogs to play more confidently.
So my guess is that the pup is doing an extreme variation on the same theme. The fact that he jumped up and resumed dashing around suggests to me that his intention was to continue play, but that he made a mistake by lying so still that the other dog was more confused than intrigued. I could be wrong, it’s sometimes hard to read an isolated episode out of context, but I don’t think that the puppy wanted to show real submission. Most young dogs who do that start with a low-head wagging tail approach, and if they flop, they move more slowly around the other dog when they pop up, even if just for a moment.
The farm is sounding and looking beautiful!! My little garden had a deer-related disaster. I think the wild area near my house has been drying up enough that the deer have been extra desperate-it doesn’t help that the mild spring meant that more deer and fawns survived this year than usual. There is still water in the creek, but they are hungry for something succulent, and one night my whole crop of green tomatoes was it.
I’m also glad to hear that Willie is doing well with his PT and walk-enrichment. Rock on!
Fjm says
My immediate thought was sudden narcolepsy, brought on by excitement – although one would need to know the history to know for sure what is going on.
Bill O. says
Looks like narcolepsy, particularly what seems to be a sudden and uncontrolled loss of muscle tonus – I don’t know that it’s particularly common in setters, but it shows up in a lot of dogs. Since canine narcolepsy often precipitated by excitement, onset during play is not unexpected. Pretty quick recovery.
LHT Rider says
Trisha – I missed the comments regarding singing on your walks. What is it helping with?
Eric Goebelbecker says
I honestly can’t tell for sure. The level of excitement and exertion immediately beforehand does seem like something that could bring on a seizure or some other medical episode, but the “fall” almost seems controlled doesn’t it? I really wish the video was higher quality, but the front goes first, than the rear end. Certainly not the “sack of potatoes” I would expect with a seizure.
Less than 5 seconds after the (s)he starts to fall to the ground, (s)he looks up, directly at the other dog, drops her head, and then executes a roll to get back up. That seems pretty quick for a seizure of any kind too?
chloe De Segonzac says
Dog thinks she’s a goat and has myotonia congenita. lol
chloe De Segonzac says
Don’t think it’s narcolepsy because the dog never seems completely asleep. Something to do with muscles relaxing when nervous system is overwhelmed with excitement??
chloe De Segonzac says
ok, ok lack of oxygen to the brain due to overexcitement?? This is my last guess…really
Debby says
I also think it is a medical condition brought on by excitement most likely narcolepsy
EmilyS says
I love that you’re posting these viral videos to comment on!
Dr Yin had a great post about the “funny” dog biting his foot; she showed it to a neurologist who diagnosed it as likely a type of seizure
http://drsophiayin.com/blog/entry/is-this-really-funny-dog-attacking-its-own-foot
I personally hate all those “funniest animal” videos, especially the ones with children tormenting animals. No wonder we have so many dogbites (which are always blamed on the dog “attacking suddenly and without warning”)
Jeff says
I’m going with the older dog is from Vulcan, and knows that whole “Spock puts you to sleep with the grip of his hand” thing. That, or the puppy is responding to the mouthing of the older dog with by being submissive, using “play dead” that he learned as a trick?
Dena says
She was just being funny.
Bonnie H. says
My first thought was ‘fainting’ (like the goats). The pup stands completely still both times when the older dog’s mouth is near his neck (‘faints’ the first time). Don’t know if that is anything… like everyone said, it’s difficult to tell from a short video. I was more concerned than amused.
Kim says
Almost seems like a seizure of some sort, but she/he remains aware of their surroundings and it’s awfully quick. Maybe a submissive “play with me please?”
deborah ryan says
So typical for a field bred English Setter . What I see is a young High energy girl trying really hard to entice the older male into a “Chase Me” game. The flop she does I have seem many times before with my own setters, Wish I could see more video, curious to know if the older male did eventually play. Also wondering if there was any “talking ” between the dogs, My two current ES play like this often, the youngest is 4.5 and his housemate is a bossy 7 year old female, Betsie is loud, vocal during play, Aiden will sometimes find himself flopped, belly up, {usually when he wants to say “SORRY” for a body slam, or too hard of a nibble }only for a few secs, then it’s back to run, chase, till both are too tired to move.
Happy Dance that Will is doing well, and the flowers look lovely. Now if we could just cool down a little bit of this heat…….
Rebecca says
I wish the video was a little more clear. And maybe a different angle. It looks like the puppy froze, and then tried for belly up. So maybe he was nervous enough to evoke a flight (or freeze) or fight scenario, and got stuck in froze.
chloe De Segonzac says
Right before the pup falls he is bit (playfully) in the area of the carotid? Could that be it? the blood coursing rapidly due to the running is blocked by the bite and the pup feels dizzy and falls?
em says
Hmm….It never crossed my mind that the puppy might be narcoleptic, but that’s a definite possibility, too. I would guess that isn’t it, just because the timing seems so perfect. The sustained excitement before and after, collapsing just as the other dog touches her neck, lifting her head and checking, the instant recovery-the pup seems conscious to me throughout the episode, but sometimes timing can be a lucky coincidence and seizures can be triggered by extreme excitement-she very well could be narcoleptic.
kecks says
i think em is right – some kind of wired “come over, i wanna play with you, i am not *that* wild” behavior. probably worked for this pup more than one time with other dogs or even with this dog, so he/she learned to repeat it. don’t think it’s some kind of medical thing, since he/she is looking at the other dog pretty quickly after dropping “dead” and goes back to running and attempting to iniate play; like “this strategy failed, try another one”.
Jen says
Considering I have a dog who “fakes” a number of things (I really have no other word to use, anthropomorphization be darned), seeing the title “Puppy fakes his own death” and then watching the video, I was inclined to go along with it.
Reading some of the other comments, the way the puppy stiffens up, and his swift recovery, does put one in mind of the fainting goat videos that one might also watch on YouTube. The way he continues to raise his head, perhaps to check and see if the other dog is watching, does not.
Members of some school of thought might say the “biter” was exerting his dominance, while the puppy’s stiffened flop is a submissive display, but that isn’t what I think is going on, especially not after the racing recommences.
So, what does my analysis amount to? Dogs goofing around, I guess. Or dogs acting on cues that the videotaping owners gave them. Or a big honkin’ “I don’t know”. I’m looking forward to reading other answers, that’s for sure!
Sarah says
I think it’s behavioral, not medical. The puppy does look a little like a fainting goat for an instant, but the fall is too controlled and he recovers too quickly. As others have noted, a better video or more footage of these dogs interacting would be very helpful. But given the limited information available, here’s my best guess:
I see a very bouncy, energetic puppy who desperately wants to play and just can’t help himself! I think the older dog is not thrilled with the puppy’s antics; note the stiff posture, high flagging tail, and turning away from the charging puppy at 0:13. The puppy wants to play sooooo badly, but is trying to be respectful. I think the puppy has recently been sternly corrected for over-exuberant play by the adult. Note that the puppy is doing lots of zoomies at a distance from the adult, and is being careful to not crash into the adult or put his paws up. Then the adult deigns to engage in play with the puppy, perhaps as a reward for the puppy being so nice and respectful. The puppy is surprised that the adult will actually play with him, and over-reacts to/misinterprets the adult dog’s mouth play. The puppy immediately desists and submits (“plays dead”) because he learned his lesson and doesn’t want to be corrected again. He quickly realizes that everything is okay and goes back to playing, but still being very careful and repspectful. At the end, he goes into a sit when the adult dog mouths him again.
I think that both dogs have stellar social skills 🙂
FuzzySlippers8 says
It’s really hard to tell some of the expressions from a distance without some background info. At first glance it seems like narcolepsy or a type of seizure. However, the other dog seems to barely touch him in the interaction and the dog on the ground pretty quickly looks up at the other dog as if to say “did you see that, come on you had to see it”. The standing dog seems not to be perturbed as if he really has seen all of this before. It is curious behavior for sure. Given the leg is up, I wonder if what we view could be a form of differential appeasement behavior? I also wonder about dogs and their sense of humor too. Each breed seems so different at times as far as play interaction. Regardless they all are individuals that can provide a good giggle… Gotta love it.
Nan-c says
To my eye the fall appears to be due to lack of control rather than a conscious action so I would guess there would be some medical related cause. I wonder if the dog has EIC (Exercise Induced Collapse) because I have been reading about that disease today following a posting on another website. EIC follows excited, energetic activity and that would fit this situation. The dog remains alert during the collapse as is the case with EIC. In the one video I watched about the disease so far, the episode was a bit longer but still a matter of seconds. To me, the other dog looks like he is simply watching this crazy pup with the zoomies (well look at that!) and amenable to a bit of play.
Erin says
Scotty Cramp? Just kidding that would be way too quick. But on a side note, Do non-scotties get scotty cramp? i’m gonna go with learned behavior or attempt to induce play. Can’t wait to hear your thoughts.
Amy says
I would assume this is some sort of submission to the “older” dog. If you look at the “older” dogs body language: tail, body movement (or lack there of), paw swat, and nip at the pup. You can see it is certainly telling the pup it isn’t interested in the case game. The other thing I noted was the facial expression of the older dog. When I initially watched the video I didn’t notice the “older” dogs behavior as I was too busy watching the pup. It’s certainly an entertaining video.
Kat says
I once observed Ranger playing with a MinPin and when the MinPin body slammed him (hysterically funny since Ranger is 90lbs) there was this couple of seconds of delay–I thought of it as Ranger figuring out what would have happened if the MinPin had been closer in size–and then Ranger flopped over very like this puppy. The MinPin was absolutely delighted to have taken down the big guy and proudly bounced around crowing his delight. It seemed to me that the video showed the same sort of play, i.e. an exaggerated collapse, in hopes of encouraging more play.
Marika says
No idea but I love it! My guess is that someone trained the behavior.
Roberta says
I’m w Jeff (Vulcan mind meld) & Chloe. A resident once entered the doctor’s lounge of my former hospital complaining of feeling faint. Another resident looked at him and removed the tight ear pieces of his stethoscope from his bilateral carotids. Cured. It’s what went through my mind after reading your question.
Sigh. I love lilies and iris; my mowers mowed down my iris this year. Looking forward to your take on this video, Trish.
Annie R says
OK, I know I’m not playing the game here, but I actually was MUCH more intrigued by the video of the bulldog pulling his kiddie pool into the house — it seemed so well-thought-out and he was so determined even when it wasn’t working for him for awhile. Watching that canine thought process was amazing to me.
So, Trisha, I just adopted a middle-aged dog with a shoulder that “pops in and out”; I need to get a vet’s opinion on whether it’s fixable. He came from a hoarding situation and is a bit of a mystery although he looks like a red Aussie mixed with a Brittany, is 40 lbs and very timid but loves the attentions of people. I hope to get him into a confidence-building class and see where this goes as he is so affectionate when he gets to know you and I would love to do a “Read to the Dogs” program.
I am intrigued with Willie’s exercises and the thought that I might be able to teach ‘Archie’ some things that would help the shoulder, while socializing him and giving him confidence too. I’ll have to go back to some of your other posts to get ideas. He’s a looker too; I hope this shoulder doesn’t get worse over time.
Katarina says
My first thought was that the dog falls the same way as my epileptic dog before a seizure. However, the recovery is really quick so it causes me to second guess a medical problem. Hmmmm. This is a great question.
If it’s not medical it must be behavioural (right?) so he must have been reinforced for this behaviour somehow in the past. At the end of the video the dog actually looks like it is going to do it again. He seems to do it when the other dog is starting to interact with him- it looks like a really dramatic appeasement signal.
I’m stumped. Patricia, I cant wait to read what you might think it is.
Katarina says
I know…….
Maybe the other dog just had really bad breath 🙂
Donna and the Dogs says
I thought some type of narcolepsy at first too, but like Bonnie H pointed out, it looks like the pup froze a second time in the video when the older dog’s mouth was near its neck, right at the end. I wish they had taped more to what happened in the second instance. Maybe an over-exaggerated submissive display? It’s so hard to tell with such a short video.
Jane says
It looks like an exaggerated appeasement gesture to me. At the very end of the video, she does another one, sitting down, ears back, and licking at the older dog’s muzzle.
Jana says
I think that the older dog is annoyed by how hyper the puppy is being. Not in a reactive way and I don’t think he’s really pissed, but in a way in which he is tolerating but wants to teach him what is acceptable behavior. When the older/calm dog bites at the crazy one’s ears, it is not to hurt him but to give him a warning to settle down, which the hyper one does. I see it simply as a submissive posture when he lays down, but he jumps back up after a few seconds – which just proves that he sees it all as a game (as a younger dog would). I think it is a completely normal interaction – actually a great example of appropriate dog behavior for communicating ‘calm down’ to another.
Debbie says
Hilarious video. What’s cuter than watching a puppy play. I think pup was trying so hard to get the older dog to play, and when the dog did, either the pup lost his balance and just adapted it into the play, or was maybe slowing down to give the older dog a chance to go ahead, have a sniff.
I have a young German wirehair (8 months now) and I would laugh heartily if she did this but also I wouldn’t be surprised. She plays hard at the other two girls, and if she happens to go flying off the sofa and lands funny in the height of play, she just adapts and makes it part of the play. And because she’s so high energy and these antics of hers keep us highly amused.
I’m glad to hear Will’s continuing to do well. This is a pretty busy year for you.
Lilies! We have a batch of yellow stargazers that have almost opened up. I didn’t believe there was such a thing as a yellow stargazer, but there is and they’re lovely. We also have several trumpet lilies open right now. Washington’s slow on summer this year. I don’t know how the rest of the US can survive that awful heat. I was melting yesterday at 77 degrees.
By the way, wouldn’t it have been easier to watch the video without the title? It’s hard to get past the preconceived notions people put in our heads.
Beckmann says
Seems to me it is a
AnneJ says
It looked to me like part of the play/submissive behavior of the younger dog, but it was interesting to me that one person commented that English Setters do this typically. I have Aussies and can’t recall ever seeing one do the flop quite so dramatically.
Shelly says
I agree with many that I would rule out the potential of medical condition. I don’t know so much about narcolepsy or seizure given the speed of the incidence and the recovery time. However, it could be something in the nervous system or cardio-pulmonary due to the excitement level.
Another guess would be a tap out. It’s hard to say for sure as the video quality is unclear, but if the older dog is giving any sort of “knock it off” signal, it wouldn’t be a stretch to think that the puppy taps out to avoid conflict. Do we know if there has been conflict in the past? It would be interesting to discover.
Finally, it could simply be a self-reinforcing trick. Maybe somewhere along the way, a tap out received reduced pressure from the older dog and lots of giggles from the owner…that would be pretty reinforcing for any young dog.
I’m dying to hear what you have to say, Patricia!
Sam says
I think it’s the heat. It’s making us all crazy. To wit: you’re out in the garden getting as high as an elephant’s thigh on sweet corn, and then you go bellering about the bridge over troubled water to Willie. As if that poor dog hasn’t suffered enough.
Julie Rice says
Whatever it is, it’s physical and not normal and not a behavioral pattern. And it’s really scary that the owners have no idea anything is wrong with their dog.
Beth says
I have seen my boys (Sibe and Shiba) do a similar thing during their play. They’ll wrestle and when the Shiba bites the Sibe on a specific part of the neck, the Sibe will flop over. This gives the Shiba an opportunity to have the upper hand, and jump on top of the Sibe. People who watch them play assume that the Shiba is dominating the Sibe, that somehow a 19lb dog can alpha roll a 60lb dog, lol silly people. In actuality the Sibe is handicapping himself, making it fun for the both of them and keeping the Shiba interested in playing so it can continue.
I feel that something similar is happening in this video, except the one dog is obviously not in the mood to play. The puppy is running around, trying to encourage the other dog to chase him, trying to get some sort of chase response. Failing this, the pup changes tactics and attempts to takes advantage of any major feedback given by the other dog (neck nibble), flopping over in an attempt to encourage a wrestling type of play. Even though the puppy was annoying the other dog, he still handicapped himself and tried making more passive attempts to encouraging play, trying to encourage the other dog to want to play. The flop is passive play, giving the upper hand, being the prey instead of the predator.
Kerry says
Looks behavioral to me – like a trick. The pup falls down around 17-18 seconds in and around 20 seconds has a partial head lift as if to say is anyone paying attention to this? Then the pup rolls up quickly and easily around 24 seconds. But the fall is so quick and the collapse is so complete that I understand why some think it could be medical even though it doesn’t look like a seizure to me. However I’m not a doctor and I haven’t ever played one on TV…
Kim says
I too think it is some exaggerated appeasement behavior and also noticed the shorter, milder version of it again at the very end of the video–no flop, but a freeze. It looked to me that both were triggered when the other dog mouthed the neck of the first. I would venture a guess that this dog has learned that this maneuver works to diffuse social conflict.
Josh W says
First time I watched it I was convinced it was a narcoleptic or seizure related episode. My beloved Otis developed what we believe to be seizures. VERY quick – sometimes just a second or two – it actually looked like he just tripped. If you were directly watching him you would miss them. Always trigged by excitement – mostly chasing squirrels. And just as quickly back to normal.
The second time I watched it I have to say it does look like an exaggerated appeasement behavior. You see it start again right at the end of the video. Both episodes are started by the other dog mouthing.
Josh
Amelia says
The dour-looking dog certainly wasn’t in a playful mood; I would guess the happy pup was trying to entice his friend into a game. Both of my pups like to flop over and paw at each other’s faces from their backs. One in particular likes to get her brother to nip at her belly so she can roll over and hide it from him. The more playful pup must have hoped that his friend would continue trying to nip him if he was easy to catch.
Kathy says
Reminds me of a Catahoula Cow Dog pup I once fostered. He had been dumped with 2 siblings, who disappeared. He was not at all socialized and was terrified, there just was no easy way to catch him. I followed him as he ran into a chico bush that he couldn’t get through, and just reached in and grabbed him. It was cold and windy, and I was going to be late for work, and figured “Oh well, it won’t be the first time I got bit!” To my surprise, he went totally limp. Out cold! He was only out for a few seconds, and was still terrified. I was baffled! Took him home, put my 16 year old granddaughter in charge of him and went to work. By the time I got home they were great buds, and I had no trouble getting him to come right to me, even though he was very submissive for a couple of days. He was fine with my assorted other dogs (have fostered so many I couldn’t say how many were there at the time!) Because we transferred him to a no-kill facility that specialized in pups, the last thing I ever heard was that he was car sick on the way there. A complete mystery to me…….
trisha says
Well, I’m afraid I don’t have THE answer either, but here’s my two cents worth: The primary question, of course, is whether what we observed was voluntary or involuntary. I thought that the two most reasonable hypothesis were some kind of narcoleptic or seizure-related event or a voluntary and exaggerated “pause” as a play solicitation. I thought the potential, mentioned by a few of you, of a blocking of the carotid arteries (by the action of the older dog) and subsequent fainting spell was an interesting speculation as well. The fact is none of us can decide without more information, but if I had to guess, just had to pick one, I’d put my money on it being a voluntary behavior. However, it wouldn’t be much money, a brief period of dizziness or feeling faint would be very hard to rule out just by watching.
But here’s why I’d guess the behavior was voluntary: 1) The dog was clearly doing everything in its power to solicit play from a less than willing partner, and exaggerated pauses are part of the normal play repertoire of a well -socialized dog; 2) the ‘fall’ seemed slow and controlled to me, unlike some of the videos I’ve seen of fainting goats in which they simply slam to the ground (poor things); 3) “fainting” or myotonic goats go down because their muscles lock and their legs go stiff, unlike the pup in the video whose body seems to stay relatively loose; 4) the behavior occurred after what could be categorized as a disciplinary or warning action from the older dog and the response was an appropriate, albeit exaggerated, response of a dog in a subordinate social role; 5) the kicker for me is the raise of the head — “are you watching? did you see me? how are you responding?” Of course, perhaps the pup raised its head at that point only because it was the first time it was physically able to, but overall I’d say there is more evidence that the behavior was primarily voluntary than not.
So that’s my guess… but that’s all it is, a guess. Like so much of our guesses about behavior, right?
FuzzySlippers8 says
I took another view of the video to focus more on standing dog. It appears the high tail and posture may actually be an old dog trying to brace itself since the rear seems arthritic or somewhat stiff. Maybe this is the reason it is not engaging the younger dog in full chase/tag etc. The lowered head seen at one point may be a signal to calm or reduce the rough housing or even an attempt to time or pace the zany behavior so he can make contact with younger dog in the zoom-by. Mentioned above, I’d have to agree the younger dog is “self handicapping” to encourage contact play.
JD says
Having a breed where youngsters often do the “Pleeeeease play with me” nose punch and race followed immediately by a submissive “But don’t kill me!” routine, that’s what this looks like to me. The puppy simply can’t contain the zoomies and physicality, but knows that the older dog will, at some point, punch their ticket if they don’t moderate themselves.
I don’t know if field ES also do the “mouth play” and boxing on their side like my breed, but that’s also a good way for a young dog to engage an older one without as much risk to their body. With my current two (1 and 8 years old), the one year old knows that 1 in 3 times her flop will elicit the older dog to flop down and start boxing/mouth playing with her. When they do that, everyone wins because the level of stimulation is lower.
Shalea says
It looks to me like the pup is trying very, very hard to encourage the grown dog to play. The grown dog wants no part of it, and when the pup actually tries to engage in a wrestling match, the grown dog makes it clear this is not acceptable behaviour. The very high-energy pup makes a very high-energy “apology” and when it’s clear the older dog is not going to pursue the matter, goes back to his fly-bys.
Karissa says
I see this behavior from my border collie all the time — although her flops to the ground tend to be rather more abrupt and dramatic. When she gets a bug up her butt she starts running around my oldest dog like a lunatic, throwing all of the same annoying behaviors at him that the dog in the video used. When he snarls at her, Secret throws herself to the ground under him and lays very still with her belly towards the sky, then she wiggles her butt and leaps up to start it all over again. It is amazing to see the speed at which she can go from “crazy” to “perfectly still & submissive,” back to crazy again. She is trying desperately to get my oldest dog to play with her — But generally she gives up and continues her play with my small dog instead.
Julie Rice says
I don’t see how it can be a controlled action because when you see anyone–dog or human–flop over, the action starts low to the ground, the animal or person doesn’t just tilt over like that.
Jennifer Hamilton says
In my experience owning a pet resort and seeing hundreds of dogs play day in and day out…it looks like a very brief neurologic episode to me. I have seen these several times over the years. Some dogs bounce back extremely quick. (The head raise could have been “I want to get up, but my body needs another second to recuperate”.) Some dogs take longer. I had a dog who collapsed just like the one in the video, and the only part of the body that she could move voluntarily was her head. I carried her to the car and rushed to her to the vet with her seemingly paralyzed in the back of my car. After driving 20 minutes praying she would not die on the way, we got to the parking lot and she sneezed. The moment she sneezed, all other body movement returned to normal. She trotted into the vet and all tests were normal. She never had another episode like that again. I also have had dogs in grooming which seem to have a “neurologic episode” which is not a seizure, but clearly the dog loses the ability to move and then rebounds quickly. I have had two vets equate these responses to the canine equivalent of a “panic attack-like episode” due to the heighten sound, smell and touch sensory stimulation in the grooming enivornment.
Ravana says
The way the dog tipped over reminded me a lot of those fainting goats. Glad the singing is working for you!
Alexandra says
I like to think it was an exaggerated play behavior, but my first impression was that it was some sort of neurological-related seizure. I have known a number of “country bred” setters that “fall out” (i.e., seize briefly) as they say down South and bounce back pretty quickly.
Bonnie H. says
sorry, Trisha, I got the giggles when i read Ravana’s post; my tired brain connected the two and I had a mental image of you singing and goats fainting from it! I know they’re not connected, but….. (no offense Ravana; I have a warped sense of humor).
Katie Trachte says
Will this work when I have to go present a lecture for my Communications class in a few minutes? 😉
I think it’s behavioral.
Kerry P says
I thought she was just being submissive – holding still to try to get the older dog to engage and nip at her neck and then holding that pose as she falls over to roll over and submit.
Kat says
Given that there are people there prepared to film it and laughing about it I find it hard to see it as medical/neurological/seizure. I know a Field Lab who responds to a gun shaped hand and the command Bang by falling over in a very similar fashion. I wondered if the puppy learned to “play dead” from the humans and incorporated it into a submissive display for his older playmate in hopes that the older dog would find it as charming and reward it like the humans do.
Darla says
I’d put money on seizure activity of some sort, petit mal or focal perhaps, that occurs during play because of the increased excitement levels.
D says
Trisha, please please please, with all of your contacts, you MUST have a board-certified neurologist who’d be willing to take a look and give an off-the-record opinion, no? And perhaps a board-certified cardiologist as well? After all, enquiring minds want to know!
I have an epileptic Border Collie whose seizures run the gamut from mild partial seizures to full-blown grand mals (and yes, he’s “mostly” managed with meds, but like many epis, not completely, and unfortunately we still get “breakthrough seizures”). None look like the video; although, knowing the wide spectrum of seizure activity, I won’t rule out that it’s a form I haven’t personally seen before. The same dog will flop to the ground in play (and I never mistake his “flops” for seizures), but his flops don’t look like that either, they’re definately more controlled than the one in the video.
I ALSO happen to have a senior BC with heart issues, and I HAVE seen her flop to the ground in a similar fashion to the dog in the video.
Given my personal experience with canine seizures, heart conditions and “voluntary play flopping” – my vote is with those who suggested pressure on the carotids causing temporary loss of balance.
How will we ever know the real answer here?
Kim says
Kat Says:
August 2nd, 2011 at 11:57 am
Given that there are people there prepared to film it and laughing about it I find it hard to see it as medical/neurological/seizure.
Kat, I wouldn’t necessarily trust the typical owner’s interpretation of any behavior. I’ve seen a dog’s arthritis pain response described as being “anti-social” by the owners, fear-aggressive displays described as “protective of owner” or “dominant”, super-submissive appeasement licking described as “kissing because she looooves being petted”, and owners who had “tried every training method we know” to eliminate aggressive behavior that was the result of undiagnosed hypothyroidism.
Rachel Pfister says
Hi:
Very interesting responses! I agree with those that feel it is some manifestation of a neurologic or cardiac response to excitement.
Rachel
Beth says
Does not look like an intentional play-flop to me; the legs look too stiff. Most four-legged animals don’t intentionally tip sideways so abruptly.
em says
Kim says:
I wouldn
Kat says
@Kim, We all know clueless and some frankly downright stupid owners but my experience has been that the vast majority of owners worry about their dogs and are concerned by atypical behavior. I prefer to give people the benefit of the doubt.
trisha says
Some of your comments have made a very compelling case for the behavior to be neurological. Hmmm, I wish we could get more information too. Maybe we’ll dig around and see if we can find the owners! Anyone know where the dog is from? Any info at all?
deborah ryan says
Hi Trisha,
This was also posted to one of my setter specific lists, The video was recorded by I think Fox news, the setter girls name was Rosie and she was from Illinois, and the male setter was 8yrs old.
Debbie says
The pup glances up after falling over. Pup doesn’t seem stressed by it and is ready to play. At this point I would be observant for other factors. It could be a learned behavior or something medical. Our dogs are constantly learning from other dogs as well as from us. Just because they didn’t train it doesn’t mean that at sometime relaxing and falling over didn’t get a response that was reinforcing. I would make no assumptions at this point. I do like her cute little glance up though and think it is significant.
Melody Coulter says
There’s something wrong. My gut gave a lil “Oh No” lurch when I saw it the first time. Something neurological, but what!!???
Rachel Pfister says
I did a little reading about cataplexy. Cataplexy is a condition characterized by sudden, brief attacks of muscle weakness, sometimes causing the body to fall helplessly. It is usually triggered by strong emotion and is often associated with narcolepsy. There is an interesting paper: Cataplexy-related neurons in the amygdala of the narcoleptic dog by Gulyani S, Wu MF, Nienhuis R, John J, Siegel JM.
Department of Psychiatry and Brain Research Institute, University of California at Los Angeles, Los Angeles, CA 91020, USA. published in the journal Neuroscience(2002)112(2):355-65. Perhaps this is what the setter has?
Lindsay says
Could the dog be responding to a “play dead” command from its owner? Seems like a set up from the people filming to me. Or maybe the dog learned that she normally gets attention for doing that trick in front of the humans, so now she’s trying to get attention from the other dog by doing it.
Kristie says
I think it’s over exaggerated appeasement. I think this because the dog looks up once from the ground, and because he freezes a second time towards the end as well. I have a feeling he fell that second time, too. I agree it is weird and looks neurological, but I don’t think it truly is.
Nancy says
The dog’s owner is Mary Marovcih; she has a longer youtube video up that shows a bit more of the play behaviors: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GK4oXMRIi94
You can contact the owner at her youtube page: http://www.youtube.com/user/marymarovcih (go a little ways down the page and click on “send message”.
My guess is an appeasement behavior that has been rewarded by the owners with attention in the past.
Stephanie says
I also thought it looked like an exaggerated pause in play to woo the other, more reluctant dog into playing. It seems to me the head lift to look and see if it worked, was just that, to see if the belly roll was helping the other dog feel more inclined to engage in play.
Christopher@BorderWars says
Is that behavior all that unusual that it would be assumed to be a trained trick versus just a natural behavior? I have a submissive dog who just loves to flop on her back at ANY time. She likes to kick her legs while she’s down there, in a sort of “rub my belly!” dance, but if she kept still it’d probably look similar to what happened here.
I think it’s simply a younger more submissive dog letting out some anxiety with invitations to play, and while doing the move “I’m going to twist my head and lick out your mouth”… just kept going and flopped down. The clear goal of the dog before and after the flop is to entice the other dog into play. Why would that change?
I think it’s a passive “come get me” reaction, lowering the tension because the other dog started to use its mouth, showing that the puppy is not a threat and wants to play… not be menacing.
Very cute.
Alex says
well, my money’s still on a play-pause, but i’d be lying if i said part of me doesn’t silently worry about the deeper potential to a case like this! it’s just impossible to tell from a low-quality, 30 second video clip. but, my gut reaction was that it was playful and intentional; i say this due to my uncontrollable giggles every time i watch this and see the dog make (what appears to be) that naughty little glance to see if the older dog is watching! lord knows i’ll feel terrible for laughing if it was ever found to be something bad, but.. it’s just so dang cute! 🙂 it really reminds me of a video i’m sure others of you have seen of a beagle who was trained to play dead on command, while IN his owner’s arms! (SO cute — i posted it at the end here in case anyone wanted to watch it.) oh, and big thanks to those who dug up some seriously insightful information on potential neurological causes of such behavior! that kind of material fascinates me.
dog trained to “play dead” in his owner’s arms: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDEms21eBuA
Alex says
PS — those lillies are phenomenal!
Hank Simon says
It looks self-handicapping, in the second video. I think it’s self-learned, because I’ve seen Lab pups do similar behaviors, but not both. They’ll run around to try to get chased, then stop abruptly to let the slower dog gnaw on them. This one stops and the adult clearly plays… but not with as much energy to match the puppy. I’ve also seen Labs zoom around then feign a collapse, until it suckers the victim in (like a Killdeer), then they take off like a rocket. Note the drive-by play-bow at :29 . The adult is clearly playing and the ‘stiffness’ do not seem to be emotional. I wonder if there’s a little arthritis in the hips, preventing a play-bow in return from the adult?