Skipper Dipper Dee and the Bucket Game
Skip, aka Fabio, aka Mr. Wonderful, has pannus, a “progressive inflammatory immune mediated disease of the cornea,” which leads to blindness if not treated every day for the rest of a dog’s life. It’s especially common in German shepherds, greyhounds, and border collies, and is believed to be genetically mediated. The good news (besides the fact that the good doctor Sara Greenslit of Anshen Holistic Vet Care found it during the dog’s monthly chiropractic appointment) is that it IS treatable, as long as each eye gets a dose of Optimmune® every day.
But here’s the catch: It’s not an eye drop, it’s an ointment that has to be put into the dog’s eyes each day. Drops you can “drop in,” which makes getting them into an eye pretty easy. But ointment?Not so much. Enter Chiraq Patel and the bucket game–a life saver for so many husbandry tasks that could be difficult to do. Here’s me and Skip this morning:
I started over a year ago with first “lie down and look at the bucket,” (for a treat), then shaped it to lying on one side, then head flat on the floor, then staying there while I held his eyelids open, then the medicine.
Full disclosure! This morning’s first attempt at a video, in which he truly got his medicine, didn’t record (because, of course, it illustrated everything perfectly). This video is actually a redo a few minutes later, just pretending to insert the ointment. Skip and I were also not in the usual location where we do this every day; it is hard to get a good video there, close quarters, so we moved to the living room. Notice that when we flipped sides (cue = “flipperdip,” or, more likely, moving the bucket), Skip never totally flipped his hips. I saw a tongue flick too? He must have been wondering why we were here in the living room, and why Jim was standing close by with that black-eye thing that often makes dogs nervous. But the combination of Skip’s biddable nature and the brilliance of the bucket game have made our lives so, so much better.
I did write about this in relation to Maggie and her nail care (subtitled: The Dog Who Came To Me at 14 months saying OH MY GOD I AM GOING TO DIE IF YOU TRY TO TRIM MY NAILS). I won’t say she loves it now, (dream on), but Maggie and the dremmel now have a reasonable relationship, and doing her nails–that grow like weeds and are hard as steel) is so so much easier now.
I have two friends right now whose dogs hate nail trims, one who is a truly tough a case, and one who just needs patience and good timing. All this got me to thinking that it’d be a good thing to start a village conversation about the bucket game and husbandry. Tell us your stories! What works, what doesn’t work? It is clear that, like most dog of training, getting this to work takes some experience. So many decisions! When to treat, when to wait? When to ask for the next step? When to go backwards? It’s hard to provide generic advice, because each decision needs to be based on what happened earlier, like an elaborate plant identification key, and so many decisions are based on knowing how to read a dog and how to respond. My only generic advice is to go much, much slower than you think, and to divide each behavior up into as many small steps as you can. For example, a dog who hates nail trims needs lots of reinforcement for having it’s paw held. I’d probably condition being comfortable with the noise of a dremmel separately from that.
What’s critical about the “bucket game,” or anything close to it, is that the dog gets to choose. If, for example, Skip picks his head off the floor when I lean forward with the tube of ointment, I withdraw my hands, and lean back. Basically, I’m saying “whenever you’re ready.” It’s all about giving an animal agency, or autonomy. . . the thing that every sentient wants as much as water and air, and it is as powerful as any one technique can be.
Tell us your stories! The more we can inspire people to learn to take care of their dogs with compassion and patience, the better the world will be.
MEANWHILE, back on the farm: I am crawling out of the black hole of covid et. al., and happy to be able to enjoy spring in short increments. Dear friend Melissa sent me a cuddle toy for when I was sick, but I gave it to Maggie, feeling guilty about how neglected the dogs have been. (Jim has done wonders, but there are limits to what one person can do.) Skip, in the photo below, might be asking where his toy is.
Here’s something wonderful to make my heart sing! Showy orchids in a woods that used to be all buckthorn and honeysuckle (all invasives).
And the dogs and I are able to work the sheep again! I got too caught up in it to take any photos while working, but here’s Skip after working on a warm day–he always pees right afterward and if he’s tired he doesn’t bother to lift his leg.
Flowers are everywhere . . .
And the skies were gorgeous the night that a huge storm came through. Lots of damage elsewhere, but we got a little wind. And no rain, sigh.
I’ll end on what I’m calling “Another successful transfer of fur from dog to human.” I finally got the dogs brushed once I was on my feet. Three weeks with no brushing and spring shed . . . you can imagine.
Be well, friends! Tell us your happy husbandry stories!
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About the Author
Patricia B. McConnell, PhD, CAAB Emeritus is an applied animal behaviorist who has been working with, studying, and writing about dogs for over twenty-five years. She encourages your participation, believing that your voice adds greatly to its value. She enjoys reading every comment, and adds her own responses when she can.
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We have a ritual called “teeth and feet” that we do every night after dinner. We do it sitting on the rug in front of the pantry. For “teeth” Amber stands with her front feet on my leg, which puts her in a good position for me to use the finger brush. For the “feet” part I cue “down and side” to which Amber lies down and rolls onto her side (not a very creative name, but one I can remember). Most nights I just massage some salve to keep her pads soft, but every few days we Dremel before salve, sometimes all 4 feet and sometimes just front or back depending on how they look and how Amber is feeling about it. When we’re done I open the pantry door and Amber reaches in and grabs the bag of dried fish skins and gives it to me (more like flings it at me, which always makes me laugh) to open and get her nightly chew. This is a ritual that’s grounding for both of us, no matter what the rest of the day has been like.
Hi Patricia! I’m in Jamaica and so wish I could have met you when you both were here, I would have loved to show you my part of the island up in the hills of st Ann! Anyway….. my 3 rescues all with such different personalities of course are always learning new tricks (teaching me some too!) my favourite is”go find “whatever object or person I name,that she knows, and “gimme” Cookie is really bright and so wants to please for a treat Pico clever but easily distracted by lizards and Replay is the old lady who likes her dinner and really can’t bother with silly games!
Have to go walk them now it’s 5:30 and the mist is lifting from off the hills and the birds are calling! Thankyou for your stories and so glad you’re feeling better I still have the nagging cough love, cyd x
My dog hated having her nails clipped. I would take her in the bathroom and give her tiny bits of hot dog and let her check out the clippers. We would do a few minutes every day and I slowly progressed to touching her paw with them, etc. I think it took a short session every day for about a week and a half to two weeks and to this day she will hand me her paw when she sees the clippers. It was a lot of patience and work but made life much easier. Since she’s a 75 lb. doberman holding her was out of the question. I have never tried a dremmel before though.
Thank you so much for continuing to post these really wonderful, uplifting, educational columns. Only this morning I was feeling Quite despondent after accidentally looking at a political headline. Then I saw there was an email from Patricia and I knew my day was going to start off in a really good way after I read it.
I keep a jar of peanut butter just for dogs. I created an association between a fingerful of peanut butter and each toe trimmed.. i have had a dog ask to get a trim while i was working on another dog.
Peanut butter, one toe trim, more peanut butter.
I do something similar for my cattle dog who came to me at 3 years old with extreme reactivity and sensitivity to being touched. We’ve come so far, and he’s now comfortable with me brushing his teeth, clipping his nails, etc. But he is adamant that no other people are allowed to touch him like this!
He is on medication for epilepsy that means he needs blood draws every 6 months, which is so traumatizing for him. I’ve been working for years now to create a blood draw ritual that works for him. Like you said, breaking it down into small steps is key. We trained separately getting him used to the muzzle, the tourniquet, having his vein squeezed, getting into position for the blood draw, and then putting it all together. Even with everything I could do at home, the handling in the vet’s office was still a struggle, especially when we moved and had to start going to a new vet. This new vet’s office has an absolute gem of a vet tech who offered to meet us at a local park, brought home cooked turkey, and spent time getting to know my dog in an environment where he’s comfortable. We ended up doing his blood draw on a picnic table in the park, and he barely reacted! I’m so grateful for everything I’ve learned about conditioning him for husbandry, and especially grateful for vet professionals who go out of their way to help!
Wow, Bobby, just wow. What a lucky, lucky dog to have you. And that vet tech?! A hero in my book. Kudos!!!!
Like Ana, we are a peanut butter family for nail trimming. While I love reading how so many people have trained their digs to …..,
I’m not so skilled or maybe patient. But the peanut butter not only works, we have to crate the 2nd dog as they both want their nails done right away. This also works for giving pills. Even a big pill or capsule wrapped in some natural peanut butter is a treat to them.
Best wishes for full recovery from someone coughing right now!
Wonderful! Our Border Collie Ciara has Pannus too & needs eye drops (Tacrolimus) twice a day. She leans against my husband & looks up at him, & when she’s settled & ready like that I put her eye drops in & we pet & praise her. Ciara’s breeder in Ireland wasn’t familiar with Pannus. Ciara was imported to the Nevada High Sierras with high altitude & bright sun, & she lived there for several years before I got her–I’m in the Pacific Northwest & Ciara’s opthalmologist has said that our sea-level, lower sunlight environment is easier on Pannus dogs’ eyes. She wears goggles on sunny days & she loves the attention she’s gotten from other handlers at the sheep herding trials asking about the goggles.
Thanks for these cooperative care stories and ideas. It’s always helpful to see how you handle things.
We have one dog who rolls upside down (her choice to have all feet in the air) for me to dremel her nails. She’s easy and willing to do anything for a few small treats. She learned the drill in just a few days.
Our other dog, who came to us nearly dead and feral from the streets three years ago, under no circumstances will willingly lie on her side while a human works on her. So I dremel her nails her way — she stands still and I hold each paw like I’m a farrier working on a horse’s hoof. My back hates it, but it works for her. Like Maggie’s, her nails are hard as steel and grow like weeds, so I dremel her weekly, just a bit. Keeping the sessions short and frequent works well. She’ll never love it, but she tolerates it just fine, and we have a treat party when we’re done. It took about 3 months of incremental training to get her to let me care for her nails. Thankfully, teeth brushing, ear cleaning, and daily brushing were much easier!
Eye drops or ointment + dog = tricky! At least for me and my aging eyes and hands. Caution as warm weather comes on: that ointment gets much more fluid! Ask me how I know. 😉 Also, Wedgewood Pharmacy will compound eye drops if you prefer those to ointment. Having done both for years, I find eye drops easier for all involved. Finally, check out OcuGlo veterinary formula. That has helped multiple dogs with their pannus. (I don’t benefit from either of these recommendations, btw) So sorry about the covid – glad you’re on the other side. My German Shepherds see your Border Collies some shedding and then some, and they also point out :no one grooms wolves.” I do not of course take that bit of wisdom to heart and still put comb & brush to work. But I am very sure I am going to die in some dog hair related accident, like walking in the kitchen.
Thanks Suzanne, especially for the laugh . . . Between “no one grooms wolves” and “. . . some dog hair related accident . . .”, best laughs of the day!
Glad you mentioned the eye drops, because it’s good to let others know about them. Regretably, I tried them and Skip is one of the dogs who find them stingy and/or painful, so I went back to ointment.
Regarding the “go much, much slower than you think” thing. I’ve had the tremendous honor and privilege of assisting with puppy classes at Pat Miller’s Peaceable Paws training center, and one of the valuable lessons I learned from her about modifying or introducing behaviors was “think crockpot, not microwave.” Pat says she can’t claim credit for coming up with that, but she’s the one who introduced me to it 🙂
I don’t think enough people appreciate that slow is fast. Spend the time upfront and you get a cooperative dog for most of their life. I’m proud of the slow work we put into baths and conditioning him to the tub. We knew we were making progress when he would see the container of cheddar cubes come out of the fridge, and he run into the bathroom and in hop into the tub on his own!
I’m also a huge advocate of muzzle training. Go through all the steps. Step one is measuring your dog and getting a muzzle that fits properly. Now smear something like peanut butter on the muzzle and leave it on the floor. Do this multiple times over a couple of weeks. Next step: smear food on muzzle and on a spoon which you can hold inside the muzzle. Very briefly, hold the muzzle over the dogs snout. Do not be aggressive and do not strap it on. Repeat several times over a couple of weeks. Next step is very briefly strapping it on. Tip for dogs with long fur: trim the ear furnishings if they are getting caught in the strap or buckles. You dont have to go to the ear leather, but it helps a lot while you are both getting used to this thing. My final conditioning step was carrying the spoon of peanut butter into another room so he learned to walk with the muzzle on. Another tip: find a long skinny ice cube tray and make pops out of diluted peanut butter or baby food. This is a longer treat that works well when waiting for the vet. (Yep, I bring a cooler.)
The last few vet appointments have gone so well, I’m not sure if we still need the muzzle. But he does have a history of attempting to bite the staff, they feel safer with it on, and they say he’s great about eating peanut butter smeared on the muzzle while they work with him, so why stop using it?
Kendra, so much great advice! Thanks!
I have a very skittish Pharaoh, raised during COVID times. She needed surgery during COVID and I was not allowed to accompany her and it made her fear being touched by strangers, especially
vets, and ended her show career. I taught her as a puppy to value her grooming table with lots of treats any time she jumped up there. It became her favorite place. Any time I need to to anything to her, it happens on her table. She’s knows she can leave if she wants to, and occasionally will leave for a moment during dremmeling, but then can’t resist coming back for the treat per toenail. A few weeks ago she needed her annual vet checkup and the vet and I pondered how to get her to allow the touching and the injections. They have an exam table that raises and was up about a foot. To my amazement, I said “Table” and she hopped up and allowed everything just like at home. I say all of this just to point out that the familiar table or mat matters as least as much as the bucket.
Wow, GREAT story Rachel! Thanks for sharing it.
One of my four Border collies, M.E, has Pannus (immune mediated so sounds like the same thing) and is on Tacrolimus drops for life. All four get a treat after M.E’s eye drops and she asks for them so I never forget. She used to spend days away for herding and agility trials, still stays at the sheep farm when I travel sometimes, so the others remind me it’s eye drop time and still get treats even when she isn’t there.
Would love to know if anyone has had success with this when the needed medical task includes significant pain for the dog. One of my dogs gets monthly Addison’s Disease injections that we have worked hard to make a positive experience. We have recently had to add injections for a bad leg and they hurt a lot. We are not making any progress and she knows when it is the leg injection over the Addison’s injection because the injection site is different. She is 115lbs and that is a lot of unhappy dog to try to manage. She is not aggressive and does not ever attempt to defend herself but it is a sad job every two weeks and I hate having to do this to her.
Thanks for this post. As a dog trainer, I have been blessed with my own dogs who have been tolerant of all husbandry activities. So of course, I didn’t train them. Then I got the dog who was not so tolerant! Surprise!
I was alerted to the fact that as a dog trainer, I had not been helping anyone, including myself, by NOT focusing on husbandry training. I have since been at least more aware. I have been grateful to Ken Ramirez for pushing my focus to husbandry, and your post is equally welcomed in my home! Thanks again.
Over the past 18 years we have had two greyhounds with pannus. Tacrolimus in MCT oil (drops) followed by a treat 2x day. Sometimes a moisturizing drop in between. Each learned to “tell” me when it was time for their drops.
All five of our greyhounds (plus one foster) learned to like the dremel. I put the goodies in a small bowl, ask them to lie down and give them a treat every nail or two. If they balk, I move to the other dog or turn the dremel off and move the “bucket” further away. Of course, it’s easier when they can watch the old veteran.
I’m with Judith. Your column is the ray of sunshine we need some days.
Sorry to hear that Skip has pannus, glad it’s treatable. From the comments, it’s a lot more common than I thought. Great video!
Rowan has cooperative care husbandry down pat – nails, ears, grooming, teeth. She loves nightly toothbrushing and Sunday spa day. Birdie, our newbie…another story. She came with matted fur, very overgrown nails, badly needed a dental (she was dearly loved, but her owner was too sick to keep up with care). She tolerates everything except toothbrushing, but we’re going slow and working on consent rather than taking advantage of her sweet nature.
Fortunately (though not for our wallet) she’s been to the vet three times in the last four weeks – mostly routine “new dog” stuff. Each time the techs clipped her nails a little more, so they’re not too bad now. When Birdie arrived, I started grinding Rowan’s nails every evening, a yummy treat for each completed paw. Birdie said “Huh! What’s this all about?”. When she came over to investigate, I tapped the turned-off Dremel on a nail and handed her a yummy treat. Two weeks later, we’re now up to actual (minimal) grinding of a Birdie nail for every grinding of Rowan’s nails on one paw. Making it part of a nightly routine seems to help make it no big deal.
We’ll tackle toothbrushing a bit later. She dislikes the flavors of toothpaste I’ve tried so far. I may try a dry brush. Working on a chin rest now, and using Plaque-Off in the meantime per our vet’s suggestion.
So sorry that you had to deal with Covid 🙁 . I had my second round of it at Christmas (thanks to my youngest granddaughter that shared it both times) and was down for my entire Christmas break! No fun!
I use a Manners Minder (thank you Sophia Yin!) for nail dremeling. I used to do it on the grooming table in my shop but most recently on my kitchen island. My border mix is raring to go when he sees the Minder come out, though it’s still necessary to have treats dispensing pretty regularly. If the island were a little lower, he’d jump onto it! Tried doing them on the floor and it’s a whole different picture. He won’t tolerate it. Same thing at the vets office where they normally do blood draws, etc on the floor and he was NOT happy. I suggested using the table instead and it was a complete game changer. I used the Manners Minder with my previous dog, a Springer, who became averse to nail clipping as she aged, so we switched to dremeling and the Manners Minder and it was a completely different picture. My Pomeranian who came to me at 6 years old totally freaking out at the sight of nail clippers, strangely let me grind her nails using the Manners Minder (no, they hadn’t been dremeled in the past). She now just gets a treat dispensed every few nails and then a jackpot at the end.
Great article and I’ve really enjoyed reading all the comments. I often say that toenails trimming is my least favorite thing about dog. I should stop saying that. I have three dogs that need their nails trimmed right now, their nails grow so fast. I went through the whole itsy bitsy thing for months, and one thing that really helped was realizing my enormous German Shepherd prefers not to see me clipping his nails, so he stands and licks a lick mat while I treat his hooves! Maggie’s been being really good about it. She doesn’t seem to mind much at all, but it seems like I have to clip her nails every day. They grow so fast. My old dog Bee never used to be bothered by it at all. It was always easy for her but now it’s 16 years old she’s decided she does not want her nails clipped anymore and so I have to medicate her to make it possible. I’m probably gonna dies the same way Suzanne Clothier describes, in a dog hair related accident! So glad you’re feeling better!
For our teeth brushing routine I get out the small, folding step stool and set it next to the coffee table. I get the supplies (tooth brush, homemade toothpaste, small pate knife to put the toothpaste on the brush, and dental scraper) and the all-important dental chew. I put the supplies and chew on the coffee table and announce “it’s time to do teeth”. He puts his front two paws on the step stool and looks over to make sure the treat is there. I ask for a “snarly face” and brush his teeth. If needed, I’ll lightly scrape a tooth that has tarter, though the tolerance for this is very short. Once done, I tell him what a good boy he was and he gets his dental chew.
Elise: Love the “snarly face” cue! Tell us how you taught it!